Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
This still sucks.
@Gooch ya same here, funny thing is they then say that they totally scrapped everything from PID and went their own way , with the tour they got going I'm not sure it's a production or prototype one off machine they're using , least they have an actual product to show off
Wow just got email from John Decent Espresso. So from my $250 pledge I got on a mailing list of a company that gives me the opportunity to put down another $500.00 on another machine that is not build. Another "FU" to Igor, Greg, Kickstarter and now John of Decent espresso from me :)
What's up everyone. I paid a couple hundred bucks for the exclusive privilege of being able to comment here, so I figure I should exercise that every once in a while. All I've had is Starbucks-brand office coffee today, nothing fancy. What are you guys up to.
I read somewhere that the parts were being held hostage by the assembly company down in San Diego until ZPM could come up with another x amount of money. It was north of $100k if I recall correctly. You are right that if the IP was sold the money should go to the creditors. I am wondering if their list of backers email addresses was also part of that sale. Did we sign away that privacy component? I don't recall that either and don't really have the energy to investigate.
So ZPM sold off the IP rights to Descent Espresso. The proceeds from this should go back to the Kickstarter backers! Do these guys have any morals?
It's funny that we never ever saw a picture of a pile of parts.... other than a few prototypes and such. I would sure like to know what they did with the funds raised..........
Can I please just get a box of parts from you?
Seriously, this is leaving a bad taste in my mouth still.
I get that the project failed, money was used but no products were completed. The Creators were the worst in the sense that they have no idea what is needed to complete the project.
However, as have been mentioned below, the IP of the project was sold as a license to another company. We, the investors, have not seen anything from this.
I just feel that the video of 'Space Coffee' just reminds me that the creators are like the coffee they drank in the end.
To be fair, Descent Espresso is trying to complete this on their own. They should not be painted with the same brush. They are not asking us for investing into their company. Just the decision of whether we still want a product that we initially believed it.
Not to mention, if you want, you can wait till the product are completed, marketed and reviewed before deciding if you want to spend more money. Yes, that is pain of whether to pay even more money for an espresso machine.
Come on guys, you knew the project - like any other project - could go south. You took a risk, you lost, get over it. They tried, they failed. There is no enterpreneurship without failure.
I think it is admirable that this guy is offering anything. He's giving 3 years to decide, so we should have ample time to let others review it and see if the product is worth the money. No risk to us, just a discount for having lost our money on ZPM along with him.
HAHA. I was a $300 backer. I "lose" $100 right off the bat on this new venture. But I guess it is good he is at least trying to make good on someone else's debt.
Yeah I agree with everyone else. Someone get it and review it before I buy it. Or the product have an amazing return policy.
Nevermind the reddit link. My post got deleted.
Here's the letter :
Subject: ZPM pre-buyers get a $200 voucher for Decent Espresso
I'm John Buckman, founder of Decent Espresso, and fellow pre-buyer of a (never-received) ZPM Espresso machine.
This past winter, I expect that you got the same email I did: ZPM had run out of money and was not going to deliver a machine. I was obviously upset, but I also wondered if I might be able to help. I got interested in perhaps buying ZPM and finishing what they had started, and this investigation consumed many months. The New York Times Magazine wrote a feature article on this part of ZPM's history.
By March 2015, I had decided to go in a different direction. I started a new company (Decent Espresso LLC) to design an espresso machine from scratch and not buy ZPM after all. However, ZPM made many solid innovations and I felt these shouldn't be wasted. We paid ZPM for a license to their patent-pending intellectual property. As part of the deal, we're offering all ZPM-pre-buyers a $200 discount voucher valid against our forthcoming machine.
ZPM gave me your email address as a pre-buyer. I've created the unique voucher code of [...] for you. Within 3 years, if you decide to buy an espresso machine from us, you'll receive a $200 discount on the purchase price: just provide that voucher code at checkout. You'll only be able to use the voucher just once, and it's not transferrable. We're expecting to sell the machine for just under $1000 and to ship it in 2016.
Please bear in mind that I haven't bought ZPM, and I can't help you get your money back from them. Like you, I also lost money on my ZPM pre-purchase and never received anything. It's my opinion that my ZPM pre-purchase money is forever gone.
If you have any questions or comments you can reply directly to this email, or talk to me via the social media links at http://decentespresso.com/.
Curious about what we're building? Take a look at this article in Barista Magazine.
If you'd like to know more about "who the heck is this guy?" check out my personal home page at: http://john.redmood.com.
Yours in caffeination,
I posted the letter on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/3oslox/zpm_prebuyers_get_a_200_voucher_for_decent/
At 800$, there's no way I'll buy it without reviews of the finished product.
Just got an email from John at Decent Coffee my response.
"John, Wow triple fuck over! The way to get my promised goods is spend another $800.00 Asshole! Go fuck yourself :)" That goes for Igor, Janet, Gleb. Who made the money on the sale of the ZPM rights?
Here you go.
Janet appears to be smart enough to not mention ZPM in her profile.
Gleb is ballsy enough to mention it. Hell, he even got some recommendations for his contribution to this scam.
But I don't know how to categorise Igor. He's got the courage to even include the ZPM machine (the one that he failed to provide all of us) in his profile picture. I don't know if he's incredibly cocky or if this is his idea of a joke.
Now you know where they all are.
If a KS project was started to hire a hitman; I wonder if it'd get funded.
Sweet. Complaint filed with WA AGO.
Any chance of this happening outside of Washington?
A keyboard and a coffee machine - lost 500$. How can it be???
As a Canadian I have no recourse, or I would also lodge a complaint.
If you are a WA state resident, you now have some recourse to pursue legal action against Gleb and Igor regarding this Kickstarter project.
To file a formal complain like I have done, please go to the following site:
It looks like Gleb has moved on and working at Nylas in San Francisco now (https://nylas.com/about). Interesting that he has the audacity to mention this project where he and Igor totally scammed and screwed their investors.
While I'm sad about the over all state of the project, I can't help the small pleasure I feel in dropping my pledge from espresso machine to shot glass. I even received my shot glass over a year ago.
@Mathew I'm looking at the Gaggia Classic.
Along the idea of moving on: since I am now in the market for an espresso maker, any recommendations?
@ Kyra K. - No tee shirt, no tamper, no shot glasses and no coffee.
Question - did people actually get shirts and other items promised?
Hi - so I take it no refunds at all?
i just filed a complaint with the FTC:
maybe a few more backers would like to do the same?
I, too, have never bothered to comment before: I wrote this off a while ago, but this article popped up in my feed today and struck a chord:
I wonder if the same thing will happen to ZPM?
@dillbilly - For many reasons, the espresso machine didn't happen.
But the tee shirt, shot glasses, tampers, and Dancing Goats coffee didn't require technical development and were, after all, prepaid by backers. I was lucky to get the grinder--hardly worth the $725 I paid for it.
I haven't posted before, mostly because I wrote off this project ages ago, but I follow up on the comments every once in a while. While I'm certainly not happy about the situation, I'm amazed by the amount of of anger some people still hold. Any of these projects need to be backed with a healthy dose of caveat adiutor. And while it would be great if backers didn't exist in a grey area between customer and investor, that's the reality we live in.
That being said, I wouldn't mind if one day a box of random parts just shows up at my door, but I'm not holding my breath.
Checking in on my favorite project. Hi everyone.
Another "successful" Kickstarter project; i.e. KS got its 5%.
Follow-up to the NYT piece.
Well...at least I got the grinder.
Nice find Johnny. Did you notice, at the bottom of that D&K page, it says, "Partners in Innovation from Concept to Reality"? Not this reality.
Nothing to say Gleb? At least, do you feel you were treated fairly? Was Gideon's piece your update? No reason for a black-out now.
From the NYT article "Despite the deranged conspiracy-mongering ideas to which some of them ultimately clung, the reality of ZPM’s failure was pretty banal: The founders were naïve and inexperienced, well intentioned but clumsy, and they serially trusted and paid the wrong people for ineffective help." And there you have it.
From the NYT article: "ZPM’s second manufacturer, San Diego’s D&K, told the founders their engineering drawings weren’t adequate and presented them with overage fees totaling $100,000. Pending payment, Polyakov says, D&K is still holding the consigned parts and assembled machines hostage. (D&K declined to comment on the matter.)"
You are swindling liars. There is now no doubt. Go to hell.
All of you who think that we are ever going to get an actual update raise your hand---high so i can see them.
We are waiting.
@Kevin Davison. Read the thread before commenting. As I have previously stated I have written this off so if we do get something then it will indeed be Christmas. I have zero interest in pursuing this otherwise: I moved on.
We've reached your self imposed deadline - got any updates for us today?