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WeTagBy WeTag
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WeTagBy WeTag
First created
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Funding Suspended
Funding for this project was suspended by Kickstarter over 4 years ago

Technical Brief

Posted by WeTag (Creator)

Good evening 'iFinders'

During the past week it has been requested that we provide some technical details associated with the tag. As a result we have composed a technical brief that presents information to answer most of the questions but also protects the technologies that we are patenting in the USA, European Union and China. We are also in discussions with other companies to license the technology and have to protect these as well for exclusivity reasons.

We believe that we are the first to publish any data on a tag and hope that we will not be the last.

Again many thanks for your support and now we can concentrate on getting you the best product available.

WeTag Inc.

Technical Brief
Technical Brief
Gian Kishfy, Chris Frederick, and 62 more people like this update.


Funding for this project was suspended by Kickstarter and comments are closed on project updates. For more on project suspension, please see our FAQ.

    1. Missing avatar

      Michael weaver on

      How are you patenting something the gear mr Tesla publicly demonstrated?

    2. Calvin Chung on

      @robert that was a great article. Really makes me reconsider the viability of this product.

    3. Robert Khoe

      Len posted this link in the main comments section: http://drop-kicker.com/2014/06/ifind-rf-energy-harvesting-bluetooth-beacon/

      Interesting read ...

    4. WeTag Creator on


      We are conducting more tests and the independent tests will be in the up coming weeks.

    5. RazorPointer on

      Any idea when your independent testing will be completed and results released? Are we looking at a few days or a few weeks? I'd like to recommend this project to others, but need to wait until I see a little more evidence of your technological breakthrough - Thanks!

    6. Missing avatar

      Ollie Heaviside on

      The creators don't live in Texas so it would be hard to set up a personal demo.

    7. WeTag Creator on


      We are setting up independent tests.

    8. Missing avatar

      Jim on

      @Jeremiah, @Creator
      I think it would be a great idea to let Jeremiah or anybody be able to see it in action. That would boost the confidence/faith in the iFind.

    9. WeTag Creator on


      We are setting up tests with agencies.

    10. Missing avatar

      Jeremiah Gassensmith on

      Well, I live in Plano. Can I see it in action? You can put it in a sock, if you want, so I won't see the actual device... or a paper bag. Whatever you're comfortable with.

    11. Robert Khoe

      I saw someone reported this project to Kickstarter? Kickstarter can't judge if the technology works. It can only judge if this project follows the project guidelines.

      Unless there is a independent test executed (I suggested a tech mag/blog before) the discussion won't stop.
      And even then we just have to have faith if we get working products.

      I have been burnt before on Kickstarter (project funded, but no product delivery), but that is how it works.
      Part of the process are the (valid) questions of the backers. That's also Kickstarter.

      I also understand that patents are filed, but there even aren't filing nunbers available? I really don't know how the patent system works, but you can't even check if a patent is filed (without the disclosure of the technology)?

    12. WeTag Creator on



    13. Missing avatar

      Sam Johnson on

      Good answer. Thank you.

    14. WeTag Creator on


      Yesterday it was said it would be passed onto the R&D team. They have a schedule they are keeping. It is not done yet and it will most likely be the end of the week.

    15. Missing avatar

      Sam Johnson on

      Hi WeTag,
      Yesterday you said you'll do measurements today and clarify. Any update?
      Thank you.

    16. Mohammed Issa on

      i meant to say: "Question to the backers 'who' followed this feed.

    17. Missing avatar

      Ollie Heaviside on

      @Wotao, @Wes
      Yeah, NetStumbler probably only works on XP or earlier. I installed it a few years ago on my laptop. Still works great today, such a handy tool. Perhaps it'll run under an XP OS emulator like VM Ware?

    18. Mohammed Issa on

      Question to the backers are followed this feed. What is the verdict here? Are the numbers presented in this update viable? Will the tag be able to harvest enough energy realistically?

    19. Missing avatar

      Sam Johnson on

      Thank you for the explanation.

    20. Missing avatar

      Sam Johnson on

      I agree with you. From my personal experience, we usually file patents before we talk to customers. After the patents being filed and an application number is available, we will be able to disclose information and talk to customers with details. The information disclosed is under protection from the patent application date.

    21. WeTag Creator on


      When you file patents you have either the authority to make them public or not. We chose not to make public until negotiations are complete. As far a the PCT is concerned out attorney decided it was better to file the EU and CN directly. That is what we have done.

    22. Missing avatar

      Jeremiah Gassensmith on

      I don't understand... if it is patent pending you've already disclosed your methods. Certainly you filed through the USPO and the PCT application.

    23. Missing avatar

      Sam Johnson on

      I suggest you change the never die claim publicly and loudly.

    24. WeTag Creator on


      Thank you

    25. Missing avatar

      Sam Johnson on

      WeTag is claiming and selling a breakthrough technology rather than performance and feature improvements over the other similar products. Like Marcel, I would be happy to see performance improvements and appreciate their work, if they claim differently. Waiting here to see the breakthrough.

    26. Missing avatar

      Marcel M. on

      The loc8tor tags are quite small, about 1.5 by 3 by 0.5 cm, containing two small button-cell batteries that last about three months. Next to an rf transceiver they contain a LED that can blink and a reasonably loud beeper. My cat is not hindered by such a small tag, but it sometimes dangles is its food and gets dirty.

      There is also an equally small tag featuring an SOS-button. The finder is about the size of a mobile phone, with back-lit LCD, powered by long lasting penlites. The biggest issue for me is buying new batteries. The tags do give warning signal before they run out (beep and blink).

      All in all I'm still happy with the set, but from what I read the iFind should be an improvement with plenty interesting features.

    27. WeTag Creator on


      Oh. Are they not rather large? But they are the real pioneers in the field. We have nothing but respect for them.

    28. Missing avatar

      Marcel M. on

      @WeTag: I understand your confidentiality. As far as I'm concerned Sam doesn't need to actually see the parts; a black-box demo would be equally interesting. Ofcourse a candid conversation with your GM might be helpful to clear the sky.

      My current tags are rather old, but still work well. The set is called Loc8tor and is still being sold. The range between concrete floors is a bit limited, but sufficient to determine whether my cat escaped the house or not or to locate my keys...

    29. WeTag Creator on


      No problem at all.

    30. Missing avatar

      Sam Johnson on

      Sorry. I will be waiting for your data with patience.

    31. WeTag Creator on

      Thank you so much for providing a really good opportunity to prove if iFind is a breakthrough.
      "No matter what the outcome is, an investigation can only help reduce risk for all of the backers." Honestly, we really agree it is a reasonable solution to resolve current problems and establish more mutual-trust.
      So before KS investigation comes out anything, and also before R&D feedbacks a full report addressing questions here, is it valid for all of us to keep a clear comment wall?
      We will see :)

    32. WeTag Creator on


      No problem. Can you state the name of your box and we can do measurements that would be similar?

    33. WeTag Creator on


      To who is that directed? We have said we will redo the measurements with distance for those that require it. That includes a series of different transmitters. Just for reference which one do you have so that it is covered?

    34. Missing avatar

      Sam Johnson on

      Sorry if I unfortunately misunderstood it.

    35. Missing avatar

      Sam Johnson on

      Measuring distance from transmitter is so difficult that you need to fight day and night..

    36. WeTag Creator on


      You misunderstand. The data for efficiency was measure over the two bands. First by experimentation with a "real life situation" and then by laboratory to verify the efficiency. The only thing that was not measured in the real life was the distance from the transmitters. That is what we are all fighting about and that is what we intend to clarify.
      I hope that clears up this unfortunate misunderstanding.

    37. Len on

      The lack of clear answers about performance has prompted me to submit a request for KS to investigate this project. Contrary to KS guidelines, it appears that there is no electronic prototype that even comes close to achieving this project claim - "in everyday environment, the Wi-Fi transmitters, cell-phone antennas, TV masts, and so on will keep it charged, so it will never die".
      Also, contrary to KS guidelines, the video appears to be a simulation that does not show the performance of an actual electronic prototype.
      No matter what the outcome is, an investigation can only help reduce risk for all of the backers.

    38. WeTag Creator on


      That is actually the case with some devices. If you take it to a transmitter and it still reads the -35dBm then the output is from the data sensing circuits. They have a high gain amplifier that works on a rail so the output can only go as high as that rail.

      The device in sleep mode can last months

    39. Missing avatar

      Samuel Allemann on

      @WeTag: What do you mean by "a series of input levels that were measured over a variety of conditions"? What conditions exactly? From your data I understand that you directly applied 10 dBm from a labotatory source to your converter and measured efficiency. Correct? What we want to see is that you place your converters on the table of your living room (and wherever else you think normal people would want to put their tag) and show us how much energy is being harvested. What's so difficult about that?

    40. WeTag Creator on


      The visit to the R&D to see the parts is not an option. The circuits are confidential and are still patent pending. He can visit with our GM.
      The other question CS (Customer Service) does not have any idea how to answer that. It will be forwarded to the technical staff. We assume the device is Stick n Find from your comments.

    41. Wes Yanon on

      Thanks for the response.

      Do you mean if my phone gets a signal much stronger than -30dBm, the reading gets saturated and only shows around -30dBm, although the actual signal strength is higher?

      I'd imagine I only need Rope to work for a couple of hours. But I might left the tag somewhere to sleep for a couple of weeks before I need it to wake up and let me know where she it.

    42. WeTag Creator on


      Sorry the last response was for you.

    43. WeTag Creator on


      As per the requests and comments we intend to do a survey for a diverse set of conditions. You have been provided the data for a series of input levels that were measured over a variety of conditions. These were then re examined by a laboratory experiment.

      The issue as far as we understand is that there are certain people who wish to know a set of environmental conditions to measure the available power to the input of the device.

    44. Missing avatar

      Marcel M. on

      I appreciate the critical view that some people have on the validity of the given information. As most backers I want to read whether claims made are feasible. I also respect the way WeTag tries to answer the questions and I can understand it sometime takes more time from other personnel than the staff that is monitoring the comment walls.

      @Sam: Personally I would find it very interesting if you could reconsider you decision and accept the invitation to visit the WeTag R&D department. I'm curious to hear your report (as a skeptical bystander) on an actual demonstration of their current prototype or of its parts.

      However, as just an ordinary user in an average environment, I will be pleased with any harvesting that takes place. I really don't mind if the tags don't last a year on a single charge, as long as there is a way to recharge them. My current tags need replacement batteries every couple of months and are not watertight. The iFind-tags should be able to recharge without much hassle and even if I need to put them on my wifi-router for more than an hour, they are still a major improvement (and also much better than similar tags that only last one year before they turn into garbage).

      One question @creator regarding received BLE signal strength: my current tags use a dedicated finder that is sensitive to the direction I point it at. By some sort of antenna-shielding or directional antenna, it can clearly differentiate direction and the received signal significantly changes when I turn the other way. Will the position of my body make the signal received by my phone take care of a similar significant change of the Bluetooth signal or will I otherwise be able to tell in which direction to turn in order to find the lost tag?

    45. WeTag Creator on


      In a continuous mode of Rope which is extreme it will be 18 days.

    46. Missing avatar

      Samuel Allemann on

      @Wouter: If they can't provide this info about typical conditions right now, they not only don't have a product, they don't have a plan. This kind of feasibility study is done long before product development starts. I can't sell a time machine that theoretically works in some conditions when these conditions don't exist in reality...

    47. WeTag Creator on


      The way a phone or other devices measures (not all of them) they look at the output from the amplifier. If the signal strength makes the amp go to the rail than that is what it will report.

    48. Wes Yanon on

      Thanks for your GREAT compliment. LOL

      I haven't read all the comments line by line below, but I am puzzled why wifi analyzer seems to stuck at around -30dBm no matter how close I put my phone to a 200mW router. Something wrong? Some folks below say I should get 0dBm or higher.

      I have no problem putting the tag next to a wifi router or my wifi booster (is it a better choice?) to charge it the first time. But after that, if I left my usb thumb drive and the tag somewhere else in my house, how many days are left for me to find the tag, I mean roughly?

    49. WeTag Creator on


      Thank you for the list.

    50. Missing avatar

      Jacky Kung on

      Hi WeTag. Your project is the one I am interested in when I first visit kickstarter. I read the comments on this post. I am curious why a reference figures on daily environment still cannot be provided yet.

      As a ordinary user, I would just like to know how long do I need to fully charge the iFind. I guess many of us would want some reference figures similar to how long a cell phone can be operated on 3G / Wifi, etc. (Of course they did say it depends on various factors).

      How about go to some shops (with WIFI) or some ordinary places (maybe some schools) that you think a similar one can easily be found in other cities (in US or even worldwide) and measure the energy can be used to charge the iFind (thus, how long would it take to fully charge iFind in that place) and let us know which (or what kinds of ) places you have visited afterward? I searched in Google and some places in Plano with WIFI provided (http://www.openwifispots.com/city_free_wifi_wireless_hotspot-Plano_TX.aspx). I think this would help many of us to know if your coming product suit our need. Thank you!