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The best new this day!
You beat me to it Wil, great news.
This just in...
"While we have no connection to the Odin’s Ravens Kickstarter, the simple fact is that a lot of people who supported the game had been stung. Right from the start of our discussions, we knew that we wanted to do the right thing by those backers, and I am very pleased to be able to say that we are going to be offering a free copy of the game to anyone who backed the Kickstarter. Regrettably, we do have to charge shipping, but we’re delighted the backers can finally get the game they deserve."
Hey, he logged in yesterday. Here is a list of things he didn't do:
- Acknowledge his backers (aka the ones that bought him all that stuff off ebay without their approval)
- Update the status on the game that is not being made
- Deliver any of the unmade game
- Assure us backers that he is not a fraudster
Wouldn't it be hilarious if these just showed up in our mailbox one day?
Hmmm... Could this project be next?
Anyone know how to point the FTC after Seth?
Glad to see Seth is hard at work on this - Last login Mar 17 2015 - guess he periodically logs in and laughs at everyone who foolishly thought the project was real.
Awww...4 days late from the funding anniversary. Another year and no word from the crook.
Never mind..I see where..under full bio!
How can I know when he logs in...since I gather others want him!
Our funding anniversary is coming up guys!
Well this sucks. Did everyone report this?
Yes, Merry Christmas Seth. Ts the season to be giving!
You do know what that means right?
Merry Christmas Seth. Hope your family treats you well this Christmas. Some of us hold out a glimmer of hope that someday you'll come around and deliver on your promise.
Yep, we're still watching for him.
I'd love to know why he logged in yesterday on October 23rd 2014.
I would love to know why Seth logged in this January.
Another year of failed promise for the project will have gone by tomorrow.
Well I just wish kickstarter would do more than get their cut and say "you backers are on your own" attitude. Maybe that lawsuit hopefully might persuade the folks at kickstarter to do kore than get their cut of the money. They should be held just as accountable as the developer!!
I still think it's hilarious that the last tweet that Seth ever sent out on his Works Ltd. twitter feed was to the Kickstarter for The Emperor's New Clothes.
Y'know, hilarious and infuriating. It can be both.
Heh. Was just coming here to post that. Any of our 679 backers from WA? Let's hope the suit is a success and more accountability can be ensured...
Did no one get Seth a card??
awww! it was our anniversary and I missed it! dang it!
Hate to say this but this Wednesday is the one year anniversary of thus project as well as Ash Wednesday. I suspect that some of us wish we could put someone in the ash!!
For people who have been turned down by their bank: Try going to a physical location and talking to someone in person. Chase turned my down via email, but when I went to a branch location in person they were very helpful and got my $ returned.
@Jared Bond - If you're really interested in taking over this game, then email me at: email@example.com I can provide you with some information.
As someone who has never published a game and has no desire to do so, I would suspect the following:
1. Talk to designer about license. Might need to talk to last publisher too (Rio Grande?)
2. Determine components (a bunch of cards and the 3 pieces)
3. Talk to a printer about the components and the varying qualities that they provide.
4. Determine how many copies of the game (with rulebook, box and inserts) you want to print at a particular quality
5. Determine shipping costs to the US and Europe
6. Figure out what, out of the stuff above, I did not mention and/or have gotten wrong. I know I certainly simplified it a lot
As a bit of an aside, I have a copy of this game now, and I have to say it's a great game. I would suggest that the original shape of the cards is better than a standard card and that the wooden bits are really nice. I love the ravens. But both will increase the price of the game.
Back to the game....how does one go about *actually* getting this game made? I still think it sounds great.
Updating my previous comment with the responses from Amazon and B of A regarding refunds.
Amazon replied to the email detailed in my previous comment, even saying that they agree with most of what I wrote (but who knows if anything will be passed up the chain of command). They told me to start a claim with B of A in order for Amazon's processes to start. I called B of A and explained once again what is a Kickstarter project, and then B of A began their chargeback process. Ninety days of limbo, without knowing if I will have financial satisfaction at the end, but still some hope.
Of course, real satisfaction would be Seth Nemec being prosecuted. I wonder if he is getting his name changed. I cannot imagine attempting to live with the stink that this guy brought upon himself. In the age of the internet, there is no way that he can find a legal and decent job with this attached to his name. What loose screw fell out of his brain pan that permitted him to think that this action would be a good thing?
Being self-employed means that I consider this a time waste that has become over $60 that good old Seth owes me on top of everything else.
The comments here are interesting. The use of a '90 day' period is being applied purely to exclude refund circumstances by creating a rather narrow window that is artificiallly based on a situation of things working properly when in the case of a refund the opposite is almost universally true.
In my case the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce advised me their position is that until the date of service has passed the timeline for the period to claim a refund does not start. Delays do not run the clock. So it was no problem.
I do wish everyone here with funds o/s luck. Seems to be partly the problem of the financial companies issuing the CC cards having a structure that does purely favour their interests with the excuses people have had here about the '90 day period' etc.
I did not realize the problems with this project until recently, which is my own fault, of course. My wee bit of defense is that it was in my pile of 66 funded projects, most of which were late, and I just accepted that was the story here as well.
My CCC for this is Bank of America, and they directed me to Amazon, with B of A having no idea what Kickstarter is. Amazon took the facts from me, but did not tell me what they must have known that they were going to send me the following day by email—denial. I will share my reply to them, as I believe the issues are sane, as well as common sense…
Good day, Amazon:
I helped fund a movie through Kickstarter that collected its pledges in July of 2012. Its estimated completion, and therefore its deliverables, were given as September of 2013. Like most of the artistic projects funded through Kickstarter, delays have occurred, and filming will now start in March of 2014. Most of us who pledged are staying with the project, even though our pledge rewards will not be sent until more than a year after its estimated delivery schedule, which itself was more than a year after collecting our money.
When Amazon signed on to be the sole transaction agent for Kickstarter, someone must have realized that the timeframes of these artistic deliverables were going to be much different from a retail ‘order’. The ‘products’ are not sitting on the shelf, just waiting for shipping and handling. Some have not even seen their designs completed, much less had their manufacturing issues addressed.
Now I have two requests for refunds for unshipped products. One seems to be the result of a person who simply left town with the money collected. The other seems to the result of bad business decisions and business ignorance, compounded by poor communication with their sponsors. I have been told by you that the “Dispute for this transaction cannot be filed as the time period to file a dispute for the above transaction has lapsed”. Really? What policy? How was I to know of your policy?
[And would help to know if which dispute you are addressing, or both. I suspect this is a problem that occurs with near-robotic form replies.]
If Amazon has a policy of not refunding money that they have collected, then, being the sole financial transfer agent for Kickstarter, Amazon should publish that policy at the Kickstarter site, and ensure that all participants read it before Amazon takes the money from the customer. Secondly, that policy must take into account the nature of these transactions, namely, that the money is often being used to fund long term projects, and common sense is that a month or two is not a decent timeframe to place on refunds.
This is not the first time that the refund issue has been raised, nor will it be the last. Your company has made tens of millions of dollars because of Kickstarter, and IF Kickstarter survives issues like these, then you will make hundreds of millions more. You have the resources to devote to dealing with this issue in a more thoughtful way, and with more common sense. You definitely need to be more transparent to your customers. This arrangement with Kickstarter, especially as it is very profitable to you, should engender you to consider the prosecution of those suspected of committing fraud. It is in your own self interest to instill a sense of consequences to those who would dirty the waters where you are drinking so profitably. A few thousand dollars spent on investigation could bring most of these modern day con-artists to justice. Publication of their crimes and capture will instill the necessary caution in those who would consider doing the same in the future.
As there are others involved financially, namely, Kickstarter and the credit card companies, then the cost should be spread, but you should start this, and take credit as the “Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company”. Work out the financial details with the others in the months ahead. Nothing looks better than a company that takes the lead on helping its customers.
John M. Portley
• § •
I do not expect a reply from Amazon, but this does go up against their claim to be customer-centric. Onto the clueless Bank of America, which will probably stick to 'policy', even if it is not common sense, nor customer-centric. When I find a truly customer-centric financial organization, my whole family will leave these others behind without a single tear.
I'm impressed that anyone was able to get a refund. Both Chase and Bank of America (this and another project) tell me that since it is 90 days after the charge, they can't do anything about it. I even clarified that it isn't a completed product when the card is charged, that even the delivery date slips, and both investigations resulted with the same response--90 days after the charge, can't dispute it. Frustrating!
Sucks. Really wanted this one to not be a scam. Didn't someone mention last year they thought they'd pursue re-kicking this but not as a scam?
Sorry 1/12/2014 not 1/13/2014.
It is interesting that someone from Works, Ltd. keeps logging on to Kickstarter. The latest is at 1/13/2014. Is that you Seth? What about our games?
You, sir, have backed a few projects. I'm guessing you have so many you lost track of one that is 4 months past due? Although, now that I think of it, "4 months past due" is almost on time for kickstarter projects :-D
Ah.. damn.. I just read into all of this now :(
Haven't heard anything lately. Any news? Updates?
There is no reason wells fargo should have turned it down if you told them the guy has disappeared and never delivered on the product.
Interesting I see "Works Ltd" (i.e. Seth Nemec) has returned to Kickstarter, clicking on "See full bio" gives a "Last login Oct 8, 2013" ... I wonder if he stopped by to read all the comments?
@Richard - all you can do is try your credit card company, if you read back over the comments, you'll find some examples of contact various people have had with their card companies.
OK how do I get my money back?
Contacted Wells Fargo, according to their letter "we found that your account was charged correctly." Well what do I do now?
Sorry that I didn't check in sooner. Discover ha completed it's investigation and my payment was fully reversed.
And you are right. Kickstarter had no interest in helping anyone with this type of thing. They could have very simply stated that you should talk with your CC company. Instead they just say tough beans. Had they referred me to my CC company there were quite a few other kickstarters that I refused to back that I would have had kickstarter been more generous with its communication.
Luckily I got this resolved before Reaper did it's second kickstarter or I wouldn't have backed it either.
So... has Seth Nemec gotten away with it?
So much detective work has been done by this community... Has anyone actually contacted any authority other than their credit card company / PayPal?
I'm not really sure what step to take to see Mr. Nemec brought to justice, but reading this thread underscores that he really should face consequences - that is worth more to me than $25. Letting him avoid a courtroom is only telling him (and any other enterprising young fraudster that finds this thread) that the gamer community is a great source of fast cash.
Thanks Robert for the date ref to @Kristen's advice!