Use this space to cheer the creator along, and talk to your fellow backers.
Have a question?
@Kenny This is the time of year where Will gets extra flaky so I wouldn't be surprised if we don't hear from him again until February. Take a look at the updates from the last two winter periods.
I wonder what this month's excuse will be? It's about that time....
As frustrating as it is to have been waiting on this thing for almost half a decade, depression / anxiety don't work in whatever way you seem to suggest they do based on your comment.
I absolutely appreciate and understand folks here who are airing their grievances about their delays with this project (I've been one), but cracking ignorant and/or snarky comments about mental illness that border on accusations of malingering do literally nothing to help this situation. Folks have been haranguing him for years now about this thing and it hasn't seemed to do anything to speed up the process. You think putting scare quotes around depression and anxiety is gonna do the trick?
As much as I agree that Mr. Hindmarch has not taken any responsibility for how his issues have impacted this project given massive delays, and that his "updates" have basically been a series of broken promises largely been devoid of any real meaningful substance for the most part, potshots like that one are strictly a net negative.
Will participated in some panels at PAX Unplugged this weekend. https://youtu.be/6eOi5dRyqG8
Guess that "depression and anxiety" only flares up when Will remembers this project exists.
Can anyone who's ever published something through DriveThru advise what "...a recent sample from DriveThruRPG..." might mean?
Does that mean the text and layout was complete and a test sample of the finished product has him making changes? If that's the case then at least there is a complete manuscript. Although worrying to hear that it's caused him to go back into layout. Based on previous behaviour that could mean another year of tinkering! Let's hope not.
Replies to PMs and some presence here in the comments would be nice.
Its like Will is competing with Gareth-Michael Skarka for shittiest Kickstarter Creator.
Another update and nothing to show? Seriously?
Thanks for the update! Keep up the good work!
Have lost all patience, would prefer a refund to the actual product at this point.
Well, I called this in September. No PDF and another classic Will Hindmarch broken promise.
I hope that people are starting to see that Will’s words are wind.
Hey, but at least we got that little loot generating web app this year, right? /s
Just about time for the monthly excuse.
Will, please give us at least a quick update about the project? You have mentioned pdfs reaching backers by October, and that window is looking pretty tight. Thanks.
22 days since we were "On the Verge of Something". I guess Mr Hindmarch's definition of "verge" and mine differ significantly.
Even if his plans have gone awry he could at least let us know.
Refund and bury this project.
Will, I'm sorry for the passing of your friend. I truly am.
But this tragedy doesn't excuse your conduct over the last 3.5 years.
If precedence continues there will be no PDF in October 2017. Just like there was no PDF on December 1st, 2015.
You use weasel words in your post. "I am on the VERGE of signing" "PROVIDED the math works out" "PROVIDED that proofing and final layout go remotely as I hope them to"
I sincerely doubt you have a plan at this point.
You promised a refund in update #51 on June 30th, 2016 and there are many of us still waiting.
Would still me keen to add in the amazing playing cards into my pledge, should that become a possibility around fulfilment. But equally respect that the extra logistics might make it less reasonable at this stage. Nonetheless, I'm still a committed backer, and would be happy to invest a little more here, should the opportunity arise.
I have seen his work, and I am content to wait until Dark is ready. Will does good work. We will have Dark, and it'll be solid. We've waited this long, longer is no big deal.
Jim, many thanks for getting that info. I realise it's not much, but it's better than nothing. Lets hope we get something official soon. Thanks again.
I'm going to share something, but it is without editorial. Folks can respond to it however they wish, but I'm writing this "at face value."
I had a brief, direct communication from Will this morning. He did not share any news with me, citing that any and all news should be communicated to all backers equally via the Kickstarter. [I agree with this by the way] He should have an update this week (or very soon), although he didn't absolutely guarantee it this week.
I still can't understand why no Beta has been released, apparently it has been play tested, and yet 3.5 yrs down the road we still have nothing. I have backed far more amateur RPGs than this and they still manage to get me a Beta in a Word Doc...it ain't pretty....but it's delivered and readable.
The lack of truthful communication unforgivable.
Pitch Forks....well people need to be warned to stay away from this guy, he's a fraud.
I'm ready for a refund! ;-)
I'm ready for an update!
Saw the reply a couple days ago. I haven't known what to say. I'm trying to find a few things out myself, in the background.
@Jim Groves- I'd like to go back to your comment about Stefan/Sedenya “making the rounds and trying to stir up a lot of anger and undermining (Will)” on different forums and social media platforms.
I think Will is doing a great job of undermining himself and angry Backers are a hazard he’s going to have to live with. I can’t speak for Stefan but I know I have tried to communicate with Will, on many different platforms, and become very frustrated as a result.
The urge to lash out is certainly there and I’m not convinced that Will doesn’t deserve it at this point. A little communication would have gone a long way in de-escalating/preventing this.
@Steve- I don't entire disagree with you. I wanted to run Project Dark at a small Con this November. I think it would have been a perfect fit for the community. I finally broke down and bought Blades in the Dark. As far as I can tell, John Harper conceived, designed, and wrote the thing entirely within the lifespan of Project Dark. I ordered a hardback and got a PDF for $30 bucks plus a few dollars postage. I'm reading it right now. I still want Project Dark, and I still want Will to see it through, but I'm not oblivious to the obvious frustration. I guess I'm engaged in the topic because its not black and white. It has been 3.5 years.
When Timewatch was veering off schedule, Simon Rogers of Pelgrane Press took the matter in hand and guided the project to completion—and did so with Kevin Kulp still doing the work. Simon just kept communication and backer concerns in hand. When Nick Logue stumbled with Razor Coast, Lou Agresta and Frog God Games helped see it finished and all the original backers made whole. I would like to see some sort of help and leadership take place. Not to shame or hurt Will, but to help him get this done. Plus this game looks beautiful and smart, if it gets finished.
I don't want torches and pitchforks either, but someone needs to communicate where this project is up to. I think everyone who has backed deserves that minimum level of respect.
Will has stated he has 3rd Party help and Jim, you've said he has a lot of friends who have backed. If he was my friend I'd be helping him by offering to post here on his behalf to keep his backers kept up to date with that minimum level of respect.
Because that's not happening, it seems to be a fair assumption that nothing is happening. There are no updates because he just isn't working on it and not even his friends can come here in good conscience every week to tell us that Will isn't working on Project: Dark.
Either I'm right or I'm wrong and someone for pity's sake should be providing us updates, friends or 3rd party partners.
This lack of meaningful communication is inexcusable whether you believe Kickstarter is a pre-order website or not or whether you are happy with the 3.5 year wait or not. This is my main complaint: lack of communication - basic Kickstarter rule breaking.
It seems like you're already organized. You're Sedenya—confirmed by your Twitter handle.
While waiting for you to reply, I'm finding your posts on Reddit, Rpgnet, G+, BoardGameGeek, Twitter. You've been making the rounds and trying to stir up a lot of anger and undermining him. This is what I'm talking about. You're beating on him everywhere you can think of, and then you come back here and play for sympathy and ask people to get organized to get the guy's attention. I dare say you GOT his attention, even if he hasn't replied. Hell, I have a good idea why he might be a little gunshy.
The project is really really late, but torches and pitchforks aren't my style. I'll pass.
I am fairly close to Noah Doyle on this with a few nuances.
As far as being bewildered about why people have been supportive, I'll try to explain, but this is just from my perspective. There are a lot of game designers and freelancers of varying levels of notoriety backing this project. A lot of people have been where Will is and its hard to throw stones when your glass house is in a glass neighborhood.
At the same time, there are degrees of severity. There's being a couple months late and there is being 3.5 years late. That's why I am replying to you, even though I have been a steadfast supporter of this project. No, you're not crazy. You do have a point, and I can appreciate why you and many others are upset. At the same time, many of your fellow backers know Will personally or they're a friend of a friend, or there is some tangential business connection. Folks don't want to hurt Will, and some are just good-hearted strangers who are just rooting for the underdog to pull it out and kinda redeem himself.
I realize that years ago you probably started to complain very politely (not that you haven't been today). My recommendation, in whatever you decide to do, is to not stop being polite. At 3.5 years the verifiable evidence of the situation makes your case for you. Any sarcasm or vitriol just works against your goal, because then it becomes about Will as a person, instead of about the lack of accountability. Will becomes your victim instead of you being his victim. AUGH. I really hate writing in those terms but it kinda speaks to a truth. You need to keep it focused on the broken commitment.
As an aside, I do not believe that Will is trying to scam anyone. The amount of demonstrable work and expense makes that a ludicrous suggestion. You don't commission art for an entire deck of cards and show it on the internet if your plan is to take the money and run. I think he's having problems, he's scared, and he needs help to get past this. And he should, for his own sake. It's traumatic to live with this much guilt and shame. For his own health, he needs to beat this and move on.
So, on to topic—is that your goal? You want him to get him to communicate ASAP and state his plans (including partnerships) towards finishing the project or you want him to give you closure, by formally discontinuing the project?
Assuming yes, what is your plan for doing that? Yeah, I understand that's why you posted in the first place, but you offer some idea first.
Understand, I don't want to be part of anything hurtful.
I try to remember the last time my personal issues were sitting on 75k...
That was not nice, but... man, really, along with the fact that all issues are not preventing him to work on other stuff in the meantime.
He just could have been honest and clear, years ago.
And he should react to people trying to get through to him since ages.
Maybe cancelling the whole campaign and been done with it.
But this continued attempt to somehow wade through, as if nobody would notice, is awkward to watch.
Also, I wasn't suggesting taking legal actions, but just getting through to him, getting him to admit failure or to finish the project.
I'm not sure that any coordinated action would be successful, or worthwhile. Will is fully aware, I'm sure, of the issues. And I doubt that legal action would recover anything close to what was backed.
Also, I personally won't engage in it, out of charity. I am not happy at all with how this KS has been handled, but as I will take Will's pleas of personal issues at face value, I don't think it would be right to pursue that course. I do not think that Will has 'scammed' us, as much as he has failed to follow through with the project.
(I say 'failed' not in that the project is dead - at best it's on life support, however - but that the delays and excuses have piled up to the point that I no longer have any confidence in the base product ever appearing, let alone any extra. There may be a turn-around; I hope for it. But I do not expect it.)
However, I will never back another of his Kickstarters, if they appear. I will be extremely skeptical of any project he's associated with, and I will be very clear and vocal as to why. These two demonstrations of his inability to follow-through in anything approaching a timely manner, and failure to communicate, should be warning enough to anyone dealing with him.
One of the things that really bewilder me is that a lot of you still jump in to defend Will after 3,5 years have been passed, with no substantial update since... approximately 3 years.
He did not even deliver the most basic part of the deal, neither in finished nor in a beta version.
And even if he ever would finally come up with it - let's talk about the rest of the deal - the adventures, the world books, etc.
That is a pretty big package, for sure.
... he knows the business (which he often points out!)
... he learned from the disastrous handling and mistakes of his first Kickstarter (which he pointed out)
... he got paid for pretty well - the dime per page here would have been quite above industry standards.
As per now, he roughly speaking got USD 1,500 per page, including errata.
And yes... there are these "creativity takes time", "you do not buy a finished product on Kickstarter", "health issues" arguments...
I wholeheartedly agree on all of them and here comes my "but":
He ignores, he lies, he tries to sit out.
None of these are acceptable behaviors, not in real life, not on Kickstarter.
Don't you think it's time to team up and coordinate some action?
75.000 $ SCAM.
I would like to have a REFUND please. TY.
He's only made 2 patreon posts so far this month; down from the last 2 months..
Needs to keep them sweet to keep getting his income; we're just old money that can be ignored...
Can I get a refund please?
Its been a month and no "Press Release" from Will regarding his magical mystery partners?
It would be so out of character for Will to come in here, spout a bunch of BS and disappear again.
I'm going to sound mean now because everyone is giving Will a lot of love over in the update comments section, but this "update" isn't telling us anything he didn't tell us six months ago: he choked, he's getting 3rd party help, he's working on it. What's different? It's so vague yet again. And why is he working on "support" features when the main rules aren't written?
In the six months since the last update he's made 45 Patreon posts and attended at least one Con, so his "crippling" anxiety only seems to extend to this project.
I'm sorry, but I think he's just stringing us along and working on it in his own sweet time whilst pursuing other projects that are actually making him money because the money on this project as stated in the Risks and Challenges ("If funded, this project pays me for the time necessary to manage and shepherd the project to success, with minimal distractions.") has run out.
After six months (and nearly three years late) the only update we should have seen was one telling us he was finished and it was going to press.
@Chris Doherty: Yeah, now that you mention it, it *was* odd phrasing. I know for my tier of support the books were supposed to be sent through DriveThruRPG once they had been printed.
Why is Will talking about order fulfillment if the books aren't even at the printers yet (that we know of)?
Actually, if you look at the original pitch he said it was one third done. That should have been a big red flag; we now know that any RPG Kickstarter where the text isn't complete at the time of the campaign is probably going to Go West.
I'm more than a little suspicious of the phrasing on this update; in inventory management, "order fulfillment" has a very specific meaning, specifically shipping, handling and packaging. I'm concerned that this is another rhetorical dodge where Will has just engaged a third party to handle shipping the physical books out, and the actual game writing is still in limbo.
Especially since this is one of the lines from the update: "Meanwhile, I’ve been quietly working on some of the support features for the game as it nears completion."
I know Will doesn't read these comments, but it's increasingly obvious from the interminable art direction changes and this latest update that he's abandoned the game proper and is just dicking around with tangential parts of the project.
Will: quit f*cking around with irrelevant things and finish the damn game. Send the complete, un-laid-out text to all your backers. Then and only then, work on things like a crappy web site treasure generator.
6 months between updates and 3 years late on a supposedly finished product at the time the Kickstarter was launched...it may as well be abandoned. Will has promised refunds, monthly updates, finished samples...has he fulfilled any of them? Why believe the people he brought on will bring it any closer?
I don't care either way. I'm only in this for the comedy of watching a guy break promise after promise and others defend him at every step. Will can just keep my money and never send me anything. The journey so far has already been entertaining.
"I’m working with skilled partners now to ensure fulfillment of the game. " More lies I assume. He wont even name who he's working with.
Maj. Eaton: We have top men working on it right now.
Indiana Jones: Who?
Maj. Eaton: Top... men.
There's a new update today. He's partnered with skilled partners to finish the game. Press release to come in the future.He reports the rules are locked in place and editing and polishing are happening to make sure those rules are explained properly. There are more details but I leave those for the backers.
Note, post whatever you will, I'm just reporting that there was backer update today (because Steve Brown just said the project was abandoned and that's not true, albeit it is very late) and the most important points of that update. I'm not interested in a discussion about it, nor does this post represent an attempt to persuade anybody of anything.
This is Will's Patreon account: https://www.patreon.com/wordwill where he's posted 5 updates this month. Is anyone here a Patreon of Will's that can see what he's posting? I'd just be interested to see what he's up to since he abandoned this project.
@Alex - thanks; I'll also give that a shot.
@ Alex, thanks for that email address, your research-fu is far superior to mine! I'll try that one too.
Ive got another email address you can try. WILL.HINDMARCH@GMAIL.COM is associated with Will's website's registration. Dunno if he monitors it though.
You could also try sending him a letter though snail mail? I wont post the details here (cause that wouldn't be cool) but Will's postal address is available online.
@Noah Doyle - that's some beautiful irony.
@Steve Brown - thanks for the info. I'll try his @gameplayrwight.net. I agree; I'm not interested in jumping down his throat and yelling at him, and we're definitely out of sight, out of mind as you say. I would just really like some honest communication from him.