Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
There are some projects that I back because the item is cool and I want it so bad. (Like this one) and there are others that sound tasty, fun, or worthwhile. There are some that I think will run into a funding shortage and I back them anyway because I believe that they did the right thing by trying.
Not all of these work out to be peachy though.
@ David and Craig, David's Right - Craig's backed projects list it filled with the coolest projects on Kickstarter - Very nice. I wish there was a blog that posted follow-up commentary on closed Kickstarter projects. Just curious I guess.
@ Todd, Yes all of the 3D Printed parts on the Vision 3D Printer are printed on another Vision 3D Printer (the Red/White/Blue or other colored parts).
I originally started with PLA parts for all parts, but have switched to ABS (except sometimes for gears). PLA parts work well, but start to soften or warp around 55 to 60 degrees C. Anywhere you are comfortable, PLA works extremely well. But on a Hot car dashboard in the summer (like our 100°F weather - about 37°C) the temperature of of the dashboard can actually exceed this. Also, without a small 40mm fan on the blowing across the Hot End , X Carriage, and Extruder Body those parts could warp. I chose to switch all to ABS that is more stable at higher temperatures. A LOT of people use PLA only for ALL 3d Printer parts, it's mainly personal choice - mine is ABS. You will here a lot of people talk about the Stepper Motors can heat up hotter than 55°C. Yes they can, and that never was a problem for me. If you limit the current of the stepper motors correctly, it could never be a problem.
All Vision 3D Printer 3D printed parts are made with either a 0.5mm or 0.35mm nozzle (the nozzle size isn't that critical for structural parts) at a 0.3mm layer height. It is a good balance between speed and strength. Most of the 3D parts are either RepRap Prusa Iteration2, or derivatives of other RepRap parts. The extruder body is a MakerGear / J-Head derivative of Greg's / Wades Extruder. The Y Linear Bearing Holders and X Axis Carriage are a derivative of many derivatives using Kühling's LM8UU bearing holders - these are truly great. I will post all of the files and links on Thingiverse (or Github), once I start shipping the Vision 3D Printers. The final version of the Vision 3D Printers look slightly different than the pictures on the Kickstarter pages, but they work even better. Most changes would totally be missed by most people. More about these improvements in a couple of weeks. Then I will show you the final version of the Vision 3D Printers. I could have left the Vision design the same as shown on Kickstarter, but I couldn't resist making it better prior to production. Yes it is a LOT more work. I'm not just designing the printers for you, I am designing them for me as well - and WE want GREAT 3D Printers from the start.
(got cutoff) and a few other options that use a USB host shield with an Arduino, but if there are other or easier ways to approach this, even better.
@David - lol. Yeah, you seem to pop up all over the place yourself. Not too many people have all the pie colors filled on KS....I tend towards the open source hardware/software and industrial design projects, with a smattering of artsy and musical endeavors that strike my interest or are close to Austin.
At any rate, whether it becomes a KS project or not (you and I have seen the best and worst of projects and ought to know how to run one the RIGHT way by now!), I will definitely make public the results of what I find works best and how to implement it.
I'm waiting on the special lasers and some servos to arrive. I have some elements of the structured lighting scanner arriving today. I went this morning to my local hackerspace and cut out some serious MDF and acrylic pieces for some of the different versions....so, I'm actively pursuing these options as time and budget allow.
If anybody out there has done automation using microcontrollers to trigger (at a minimum) camera shutters programatically (preferably using a relatively inexpensive point-and-shoot versus a DSLR which I KNOW has the capability), I would appreciate some tips. I'm looking into gphoto, chkdk
Are all of the plastic parts of the Vision 3D printed by a Vision 3D? If so, can you give details? What plastic type, what layer thickness and what nozzle size? Thanks!
I have come across you on all of the coolest kickstarter projects here. Your home must be something to behold.
Perhaps you can do a kickstarter for one of those scanners...
Wow! This is very interesting. I liked the David Laser Scanner, but the free version offered a very limited an nearly useless resolution.
23 years ago, I was developing a 3D Scanner that used a Helium Neon Laser (there were no Laser Diodes) , an 8 sided revolving mirror, and a black and white frame grabber. Pretty crude by todays standards.
As for 3d scanning, I'm actually working on 3 different automated systems for doing the scanning. They are all based on Oomlout's motorized lazy susan turntable (search for "oomlout WPLS") and then depart from there:
1) one will be based on the David Laser Scanner technology using a patterned background, one or two cameras and one or two lasers all mounted on custom motorized tilt platforms that I am designing with everything, including the stepper-driven turntable, driven off a microcontroller. I will be able to control many different variables and then just hit "start" and let the whole process perform on its own.
2) second is still based on the motorized turntable, but will use one or two cameras strategically mounted and triggered via microcontroller in time with the stepper-driven turntable to capture the quantity and angles of shots required to feed 123D catch.
3) the final setup will use Structured Lighting concepts that involve one or two cameras (possibly web cams) along with a pico projector to display a special hatched pattern on the object and have the camera/video content feed into software that can interpret this into a mesh. I haven't explored the state of the software available here quite as much with respect to being able to stitch multiple meshes (different angles) together into a single cohesive object.
So, lots of ideas....one is the most far along with respect to implementation of all the components (mostly special 6mm matte white acrylic to keep away reflections). The second has the turntable cut, but still needs the camera mounts and control software addresses. I've been talking to Autodesk about releasing an API for 123D Catch so that developers can automated the cloud meshing process....they seem at least amenable to the idea, but not sure how far away that will be. The last version is still in the planning phase, but I have a pretty good handle on the implementation.
Would appreciate any thoughts, comments, suggestions from others who have explored this realm from a DIY perspective.
Now that looks way easier than the machine I thought I was going to need to add to the workbench! Thank you Derek and Matt.
@David, Yeah Drerek nailed it. 123D Catch is great! It allows you go get a highly highly detailed 3D models with just your regular digital camera. No fancy and expensive 3D digitizers.
The process works by you taking 40 to 70 pictures all around an item in 2 to 3 circles that take pictures of every aspect of the object. The trick is to NOT move the object, and don't use your flash. This is why the museum pieces showed up. Museums don't like people moving their stuff, but their stuff has great lighting on it.
Download the 123d Catch from Autodesk. Upload your pictures to their Cloud Computer network, and in a couple minutes you will have a 3D model that you can scale, edit, and print. Amazing!
Filabot is coming along, It needs to have very tight toleranced filament for it to work with 3D printers, but that is their goal.
@David Check out http://www.123dapp.com/catch its what a large number of people on thingiverse are using to scan in art from the MET
I am having fun looking for items to compliment this now. Anyone have any good tips on a 3-D scanner? Do you have one in the works Matt? Filabot looks interesting as a method to recycle and create from scratch. I only wish this could come sooner! I am looking forward to this one.
Evil paper(less)work submitted. (-:
hmm, an evil thought... had you said you'll be shipping out in time-order of the returned responses, you might just get all 78 RSVPs replied back sooner than as is usual. ;-)
A BIG Thanks to everyone that backed our Vision 3D Printers. 261% of the original funding goal is FANTASTIC! Lots to do, orders to place, schedules to make and keep, etc...
But first, I am waiting on Kickstarter to allow me to send out Campaign Surveys. It is a way of verifying each of your pledges are completely defined, shipping address are correct, and charges are correct (like international shipping, etc.). All large projects get underway with "paperwork" even in "paperless offices". Few of us like paperwork (I'm not one of them), but I recognize the importance and complete it anyway. It's a necessary evil.
As soon as Kickstarter gets me the necessary files, I will make the surveys and send them out to you. Until then, I have a lot of calls to make, orders to place, and suppliers to bring up to speed - routine stuff. You will each get an email in the next day or 2, please fill it out and reply. We're on our way.
Congratulations --> 261% subscribed! :-D
Woohoo! We did it! Congrats to Matt on an outstandingly-run campaign. I look forward to the promised frequent communications during the fun part of the project and the excellent printers that are bound to result from his efforts.
Thanks Craig and RPB.
@Todd, I would like to start shipping in only 4 hours, but...... Technically, I won't get any funds until 3 weeks from now (yeah, I don't get it either), but I'm not waiting until then to start. We have already started ordering and arranging long lead time items, and already have a Haas Vertical Machining Center ( see http://www.haascnc.com/vmc_intro.asp - mines a baby compared to some here) and a pretty good machine shop. I do have thousands of lbs of PLA and ABS in stock that we will be extruding in the colors needed. All told, I have about 40,000 lbs of resin in stock of various polymers. I am reassembling my 50" x 50" x 8" CNC Router I built. I don't know about you but I LOVE CNC machines, robots, and machines in general. The ability to automate them at historically low costs really is amazing. I will post pictures of some of the machines we use at a later date.
I have tiiming goals I have shared with some of you. As things develop, I will share them with everyone in complete posts. This isn't my first manufacturing "job". Keep the "Official Estimated Delivery Dates" in mind and we will all be very happy with the outcome.
I am a firm believer of farming out parts that others do better than we do. Clint Eastwood had a great saying, "A man's got to know his limitations" - he MUST have been a great engineer.
I will update about twice per week (at a minimum) along with photos and occasional videos. If you don't hear from me every day, it's because I am busy, and that's a good thing.
Thank you for your support,
Thanks Matt. You're a good egg.
Keep up your great choices and actions.
5 hours to go! How soon do the printers ship? ;)
I can't wait!
This is why I backed Matt and his project....he knows his stuff and is comfortable educating others new to the multitudes of extruder variations, 3D printing in general, the various (thermo)plastic types, filament manufacturing, and on and on. If I can learn something new by participating in a project, that is the true reward....though I'm not going to refuse delivery of my Vision certainly....;-)
Good stuff, Matt. Keep it coming.
Ryan, the nozzle size makes no difference. There are only 2 reasons to use 1.75mm filament. 1. for very thin layers (like 0.02mm or below) or 2. if you switch to a lighter weight extruder that doesn't have the torque to pull 3mm filament. The downfalls of 1.75mm filament is that it is more expensive (at everywhere else that sells filament), and it tangles much more easily - no joking. NEVER get a 5 lb coil of filament without it being on a spool - EVER!
About the benefit of using 1.75mm diameter only extruder: The Short answer = it is marginal.
Now for the expanded answer to help you fall asleep: The Makerbot MK7/MK8 extruders (yes, I have even tested them) use a lower torque direct drive Nema 14 motor. They can't handle 3.0mm filament. Their extruder with the base plate that I have weighs 15.7 ounces, with the 2 MK8 Extruders in a dual configuration, it weighs 30.0 ounces. The Greg's Accessible Extruder I use weighs 18.5 ounces. In the Dual Configuration, it weighs 37 ounces or ONLY 7 ounces more. I could easily take out these ounces by switching to a ligher torque Nema 17 Motor, but those 7 ounces aren't a problem. The reason is that they are on the X Carriage, and the Y carriage with the Build Platform and weight of the plastic parts usually lags behind the X carriage in inertia. This is why the Y axis is almost always the axis that will "lose steps" if you overdrive the stepper motors with too much current or pushing it too fast. I do make prints that are 1 lb of plastic per plate (it takes about 15 to 25 hours to print).
The other reason would be if you saved any space on the X-axis width. This too is marginal. Although using Nema 14 motors in a direct drive configuration uses only 42mm wide per motor, or 87mm wide for 2 motors, the Makerbot Mount Plate is 138mm wide! Dual Greg's Extruders ran in a mirrored configuration only is 147mm wide, only 9mm wider - again a very marginal benefit. I simply make the X carriage 10mm wider than would be with a Makerbot Style MK8 Extruder.
There are a great many benefits to using a Greg's Extruder: 1. More Torque (low torque = slow extruder and slower print speeds), 2. Easy Modifications - There are dozens of variations of this great design (Because it is 3D printed it is very easy), 3. Low Cost - The motors is slightly more, but the rest is less, 4. It's Fast - for retracts (= no strings), and for fast print speeds.
For all the slightly lighter weight of the Dual Nema 14 Direct Drive Dual Extruders, you would think they would be blazing fast, but I have never seen one move better than 30mm to 60mm of print speed. I have done lots of looking. Those that use them are stuck with 20% higher material cost though for the lifetime of their printer.
Matt, thanks for the extra lb of filament! Using it to print more Printer parts is a great idea.
I've been wondering for a while (was hoping someone else would ask), with the .35mm nozzle that this comes with is there a reason to get 1.75mm filament, instead of going with 3mm? I would think the 3mm would print faster and maybe be less work for the extruder motor(it would need to feed twice as much 1.75 to print the same area as 3mm). Is there a benefit to using 1.75mm with this printer?
Craig, will do. I will sample each of the colors in the same part that I used for Blue, White, and Silver and post them once they are in.
Yeah, I have been working on a DLP type 3D printer. There is a large 3D printer company that has at least one patent that I thought would be an issue. If it turns out not to be, you will see a lot of DLP Printer styles in the next couple of years - quite exciting. A LOT of people and small companies are hoping the B9Creator is a success. The B9Creator looks like a great printer. His models are quite detailed. Make sure you wear gloves when you use their Photopolymers, as they are a skin irritant and don't spill any on the carpet.
FFF Printers like the Vision 3D Printers use traditional thermoplastics that are stable in all forms from filament to parts, no gloves or respirators needed. With Less than 18 hours to go, it should be an exciting day!
Thanks for the samples, Matt. 57 printers pledged for so far and less than 24 hours left to get in on this project! I've backed almost 100 projects and this is one of two that I'm most excited to be involved with (the other being the B9Creator 3D DLP printer). I can't wait! :-)
@ Craig and everyone else interested, I posted Color samples in Update #8!
@Chad, PLA is a PET (just a low temp low shrinkage made from corn Polyester), you won't want to use HDPE, LDPE, HMWPE (or any other Polyethylenes), or Polypropylenes because they have such a very high shrink rate from melted plastic to solid plastic. Anyone that has ever tried using PE or PP in their 3D Printer, for normal parts cringed, when they read that on the Filabot pages. The problem with high shrink factor plastics is that as they cool, they shrink up to 2%. The taller the part, the more it becomes like a strung bow (as in bows and arrows). Each new layer pulls in the lower layers, and the parts end up curling pretty bad. A Heated Bed, can counteract those forces a bit for the first several layers, but the 2% shrinkage can't be overcome for tall parts with a Heated Bed alone. The heated bed keeps the plastic hotter than it's "Glass Transition" temperature. Above this them, and the plastic acts rubbery. Below it, it acts rigid like glass. Still, I am not sure why most people totally abandoned it, since for thin parts up to about 1.5 to 2mm, you could keep the parts flat. Things like plastic scrapers, paint stir sticks, or thin wall gaskets could work pretty well in HDPE or PP. I will try and offer some in our store, if people need it or want to play with it. I've got thousands of lbs of a FDA food Grade PP and thousands of lbs of HDPE in stock in pellet form. They will be one of our "X-batches". Sampling them won't be a problem. Bit of Trivia - PP is also autoclaveable, PE, PLA, and ABS are not.
Normal PET is a pretty hot temperature plastic, like Polycarbonate. None of the currently available extruders can take that high of a temperature for very long. A lot of 3D printers (think plywood) can't take the temperatures either. Don't worry, we're on it and have been working on a high temp extruder called "The HotHead"tm. It wasn't ready for this Kickstarter campaign, but we will be offering it in within a couple of months once I am satisfied with it's performance. The extruder body, X carriage,nozzle body, etc... are made out of very different high heat materials. Thanks for asking, Matt
Will it be able to accommodate any other materials than ABS or PLA, such as PET, PE-HD, PE-LD, PP? (I've been reading up on filabot.)
Thank you so much! That was such a concise rundown of the pros and cons of both. I had been checking the web for just such a thing and no one else came close to you in information and brevity!
@ Todd, About ABS vs PLA both have their strong points and their weak points. There are people that pick either one or the other and almost never switch.
About PLA: Strong points - 1. It shrinks very little compared to any other plastic, 2. It prints faster than ABS (depending on your settings from slightly faster to much faster) 3.It is based on corn so it is renewable, 4. It has a sweet smell when heated (like hot syrup) problably because it is based on the same plants that make corn syrup. 5. It has a larger and more vibrant color selection becuase the "natural" PLA is nearly clear and not milky off white to start with. 6. It has a lower melting temperature (running at about 180°C vs 230°C for ABS) and 7. It doesn't need a Heated Bed to make great parts, mainly due to it's low shrink factor, but a Heated bed will make flatter parts. 8. If you don't run a heated bed, it uses only about 1/3 to 1/2 the amount of power so the 3D printer could be used from your car's 12v Power Outlet (great for road trips). 8. It's parts are harder and more wear resistant, making it great for Gears and similar parts.
The Weak Points of PLA: 1. The lower melt temp also comes with a lower Glass Transition temp so it's parts can start to warp on a hot surface like a Car's Dashboard in the summer heat. 2. There are no steady sources of recycled PLA since it is a relatively new plastic, although currently no US plastics filament manufacturer's use recycled plastic. 3. It is slightly more brittle and definitely less flexible than ABS. 4. It "swells" more and can jamb up extruders not designed to accomodate the swelling as it starts to melt.
ABS's Strong Points: 1. It takes higher temperatures better, making it better for parts that get heated regularly (like the 3D printer X-Carriage and Extruder body) and it won't warp on a heated dashboard in the summer, 2. It is plentiful, with thousands of sources that use ABS. 3. It doesn't swell as much and flows better when it starts to melt, making it easier for some extruder Hot Ends to handle it without jambing up, 4. It comes in a wide variety of colors (but not translucent colors) 5. It is tough and flexible (why most RC models use it as a plastic and why Lego blocks use it), though not as tough as PLA
ABS's weak points: 1. It smells worse when melted, like a chemical plant, 2. It requires a higher temperature to melt (and an extruder that can handle hotter temperatures), 3. Can't be made translucent like PLA, at best it is semi-opaque off white. 4. Requires a Heated Bed to make great parts (yes, some small parts can be made with a "raft" printed, but they still warp
The truth is, both are good plastics and both have their strong suits - this is why the Vision 3D Printers were made to handle either. You aren't stuck making all parts out of the same plastic, so you can choose which plastic you want to use or you can choose to switch to another type of plastic if you wish. I use both types of plastics, and like both. Most people favor one or the other. If their machine can't handle ABS, they will favor PLA, or vice versa.
@Ryan, Glad to help. We will straighten it out with the Kickstarter Survey after the campaign ends.
I am new to 3d printing, out of the two different types of plastic (PLA / ABS) available, why would I pick one over the other? What considerations cause you to pick using PLA verses ABS? Thanks.
I added $155 to my pledge for a 5lb spool of color change ABS and the (5) 1lb spools of my choice. Thanks a lot for adding those.
It wouldn't let me select multiple rewards, but Matt says he'll take care of everything once the project ends.
@ Randy, Yes so long as you are in the US. International shipping would be extra.
@Matt Does that mean if I pledge $120, I could get 2 5lb spools of natural filament?
Cool. Just upped my pledge to add the golf/tutorial pack....thanks for getting that coordinated to ease following the tutorials.
I agree with others that seeing a complete list of swatches will be nice...if anything, we can start to DREAM about our VISION for the 2 or 3 colors to be used for our customized machine parts. As a software engineer, if I can get the colors and the designs or images, perhaps I can create a tool that allows envisioning what various color selections will look like together? Just a thought...
NightPueo, Just up the pledge amount, and I will send a Kickstarter Survey when the campaign is over. I don't expect any "tips", so I will make sure the math adds up with the stated rewards. If something doesn't add up, you will get an email.
Thanks for the correct link, I don't know why Kickstarter merged the link with the previous word "at", kind of strange.
The link is a little off
Excellent! So how to we add this to our original pledge? Kickstarter will not allow me to choose more than one selection, I tried and it unselected my original Early Bird Special #2 (NO!!!). Do I just up the pledge amount and send you a message?
@ Chris, Craig, Josh, James, and anyone else interested. I just posted 2 new rewards. One for 5 - 1 lb coils of your choice of plastic, and one for 1 - 5 lb Golf-In-Miniature plastic pack that has all the colors (in the right quantities) that you need to make a complete Golf-In-Miniature 18 Hole Golf Course (actually 27 Holes if you are efficient). I weighed all of the first 9 holes, the total weight of all printed plastic pieces was a shocking 25.9 ounces! Yeah, only 1.61 lbs. It sure looks like it would weigh more, but it doesn't.
Also, the Golf-In-Miniature Plastic Pack, comes with one RC Micro Servo, that you can hack to make the Windmill turn with just an AA or AAA battery. I will show you how. You can see a YouTube Video of the first 9 Holes, and the Windmill Turning at:http://www.youtube.com/watch… . My videos aren't the best quality, I'm an engineer not a photographer. Any advice for a better video camera / quality is always helpful.
I'm also very interested in a filament pack for the Mini Golf Course and the 1 lb. x 5 sample pack. Seeing a "swatch" of the filament colors would be necessary before backing for any filament beyond what is included with my Bigfoot Early Bird Special.
Would definitely be interested in being able to add a Golf Course Filament Pack reward to my existing pledge to make it easier to run through the tutorial properly. I'm assuming we can pledge for multiple rewards and you'll sort it all out later at campaign end...
@ Josh Yes, I will. Give me a day to get them posted and I will put together a 5 lb batch of 1 lb samples.
@James, John, NightPueo, Mike, etc. I will figure up the weight of the full Golf-In-Miniature 18 holes for each color of all colors used and put that (plus a percentage) into a 5 lb pack. I will weigh them and find a figure. By the way, the first 9 holes don't even weigh 2 lbs. Check Update #7 to see a picture of the first 9.
@ Stijn, I agree, Check out update #7. I have one picture of 0.3mm, 0.2mm, and 0.1mm prints. I was going to post 0.05mm but because I ran them out of Silver, the camera couldn't tell the difference. I will try and rerun the test using a solid color like Blue. And have it go down to 0.01mm (which will take a couple of hours). The picture shows a bit of difference, especially at the top curvature of the "tower". I will try and find a better test piece.
Also, In the 9 Hole Golf Course shown in Update #7, EVERY part in the picture was made with 0.3mm resolution prints from my 3D printers. I didn't print the Lego Minifigs, my minifig prints are coming in my tribute to Lego hole.
@ RPB, Yes, but you will have to get longer Threaded Rods and X-Axis smooth rods. A rough guess would be around $400 later (also because the electronics are different also).
How about offering an assortment of smaller amounts of plastic? I'd love to get 1 pound of 5 different colors instead of 5 pounds of a single color.
7 days left, could you show us those resolution tests?
Also: Will it be possible to upgrade the size of the maximum possible build volume?
Can the Vision Plus be upgraded to a two head printer at a later date?
If so what all needs to be changed/revised/modified and what would the rough cost be?
I would definitely go in on at least one of those. I'm planning on helping my wife (a teacher) develop a new class for her 7th graders to teach them the design process and 3D printing would be a major element.
I would be very interested in that as a reward. Since it looks like you are creating a wonderful lesson plan in 3D Printing through the 18 holes it would be perfect if you could provide the supplies to make it through a reward.
And I would include extra "Gold' filament, my sphinxes turned out so well that they keep disappearing.
Yes I will post a picture of the filament colors, (or at least the color chips I have representing some of the colors that I don't yet have in house yet). I will also give a list of the colors, and weight of each color needed.
I will post stats soon on each of the Holes. So far, everything in Hole#1 weighs only 2.9 ounces, everything in Hole #2 is under ounces, and Hole #3 is only 1.9 ounces. So all 18 holes should be right around 3 lbs of plastic or under $50 for an 18 hole golf course. Even in a bad economy, this seems like a good idea.
I thought about offering a reward that has a total of 5 lbs of plastic that contains every color of every part you need for the hole course (plus 66% more of each color for error, etc). If anyone is interested, let me know. It might be good for schools also.
18 Holes in 18 days is a bit fast, but then again, this is why they call it "Rapid Prototyping" I am on target for having the first 9 holes up by Father's Day.