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Funding for this project was canceled by the project creator on Jun 30 2018
Lil Cerebral GamesBy Lil Cerebral Games
First created
Lil Cerebral GamesBy Lil Cerebral Games
First created
$4,656
pledged of $20,000 goal
144
backers
0seconds to go
Funding Canceled
Funding for this project was canceled by the project creator on Jun 30 2018

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    1. James on

      So, the SAZ - a group involved with having to know about rights regarding board games now contests even the release of TwixT by LCG in the US. Interesting!

    2. Missing avatar

      Michael Katz on

      SAZ
      Spiele-Autoren-Zunft e.V,

      Game Designers Association
      Press Release / July 04, 2018

      Unlicensed version of TwixT planned
      Recently, a campaign was launched on the crowdfunding platform Kickstarter for a new edition of Alex Randolph's classic TwixT, which has since been cancelled after repeated criticism on the platform. However, the initiator Wayne Dolezal of Lil' Cerebral Games still wants to publish the game in the USA. He has not entered into a license agreement with Alex Randolph's heir, but refers to a loophole in US law under which registrations under the American Copyright Act registered before 1974 may lapse after a certain period of time. In addition, last year he had a new US trademark for TwixT and a European trademark registered in his name because old trademark rights had also lapsed. On BoardGameGeek there has been an intense discussion about this since last year, starting with Wayne Dolezal of Lil' Cerebral Games boasting about having discovered this loophole.
      In our opinion, however, the newly registered trademark protection for Twixt in no way invalidates the author's copyright (intellectual property right) since Alex Randolph developed the game TwixT in 1957 at his former place of residence in Vienna and the game thus has the protection of Austrian copyright law.
      The SAZ considers the actions of Lil' Cerebral Games not only to be immoral but assumes that the planned publication is contrary to the principles of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works in all countries that have signed it – including all of North and South America, Australia, Russia, China and Europe with the exception of the Vatican.
      The SAZ strongly condemns the actions of Lil' Cerebral Games and supports its member Michael Katz (Alex Randolph's nephew and heir) in the enforcement of his rights.

    3. James on

      MAFStarter:
      I agree with you. If they could actually come to an agreement, I think that would be the ideal outcome for everyone involved.
      I DO feel the same way about informing myself - I only found that discussion I linked a week or two ago - and of course had to read every post because I was so fascinated by the whole situation and the arguments each side were coming up with.
      And thanks - obviously I know some people wouldn't like me bringing some of the information from that thread to light here. I felt too strongly about the topic not to do that, though.

    4. Missing avatar

      MAFStarter
      Superbacker
      on

      Morning James,
      I agree that this step does a lot to show confidence for future backers. Kickstarter is very specific that it's my responsibility to assess the campaign, and this is a clear sign that backer concerns are listened to.

      I really hope that Wayne and Mr Katz are able to get back around the table again and sort something out. They seemed to be so close - oh to be a fly on the wall at that infamous thanksgiving dinner!

      BTW - I blame you for the fact I lost an entire weekend! Nothing to do with my geek tendencies to read every linked discussion ;). It's definitely a fascinating topic for debate and I'm sure the debate will continue over on BGG, so I shall watch with interest.

      You've taken a bashing on this forum, so can I thank you for raising the topic so that people can do their investigations if they wanted to. I really believe that is the correct thing to do on Kickstarter and isn't sabotage or any of those other words.

    5. James on

      Well, this is a surprise.
      After seeing Wayne time and time again affirm his unwavering confidence in how everything was fine and legal and there was no possibility of troubles, I guess it ultimately wasn't that easy.
      Wayne, can I ask what made you reconsider?
      Props to LCG for cancelling it rather than going ahead with the possibility of fulfillment issues, though (other similar campaigns didn't do that - to their detriment).
      Even though with how things were going this campaign was 99% not likely to fund anyway, it's good that Wayne apparently does care a lot that backers would get what they're paying for.

    6. Missing avatar

      MAFStarter
      Superbacker
      on

      Morning Wayne,
      Well that was a bit of a surprise this morning!

      I do think it sounds like the most sensible thing to do, and as you are lucky enough to be able to sell directly that also sounds like a great answer for you and your buyers because they get their game more quickly, and their order has more protections. Kickstarter is basically a gamble for us backers - I haven't had anything fail to deliver yet (although I've got one just now that looks in danger of folding).

      Anything involving legal interpretations is going to be difficult but it seems to me your position in the US is stronger than in the EU. I also think that your moral position is a little stronger in the US. We are now back in the land of 'Caveat Emptor' and that makes me more comfortable. I'm not saying I think you're 100% watertight, or 100% right in the US. For my own curiosity I'd love to be able to discuss it with you, but the internet isn't the place (Shame I'm not in texas or I'd have offered to take you for a drink to hear your side).

    7. Missing avatar

      Ryan Burchfield on

      @ALL
      Shout out to doggo and doggo fans around the world!

      __ _
      o'') }____/ /
      ` _/ )
      (_(_/-- (_/

      It has been ruff but we will be seeing you beTwixTed now and later!

    8. Missing avatar

      ScottP on

      I enjoy playing board games with my children. During the turns as we make our moves, I will tell them stories about family and friends. When it becomes clear who will win; I will hope they have listened to some of the things I have learned before the game ends.

      - For now I will let them win because in the end
      - I will have won many precious moments with them
      - I believe that is the best win I could ever have with them

      - Scott

    9. Missing avatar

      Ryan Burchfield on

      Becareful MAFStarter! You might be accused of being ScottP or maybe Wayne.

    10. Missing avatar

      MAFStarter
      Superbacker
      on

      thanks wayne - was still writing my note when you posted so didn't see the cross over, Is late here so am off to sleep and will read your update in the morning.

    11. Missing avatar

      MAFStarter
      Superbacker
      on

      and just in the interests of balance:
      James, I'd like to thank you for pointing out the situation and letting everyone know of the potential downsides here. There are so many people who back campaigns without understanding that "Kickstarter is not a shop".

      I also don't think there is any problem in raising the ethical/moral question here.
      HOWEVER I do feel that once you've mentioned it, it is a very personal thing for every backer to decide how important that is to thenm, and perhaps the individuals should be presented the facts and allowed to make their own judgement. you talk about the industry working on honour code, and someone has mentioned the ethics in the boardgame community: This isn't BGG and Wayne is selling to the big bad world so perhaps some of the ethical conversation is distracting from the core. There is a line from the TV show The West Wing where Martin Sheen (playing the President) says "we don't get to decide what voters should base their decisions on.
      "you can't really decide what backers should base their buying decisions on" - but again, I appreciate your efforts to highlight the ethical as well as legal concerns and I'll be weighing them up along with Wayne's answers.

    12. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @MAFStarter I do enjoy your sense of humor regarding the credit card ;)

      I will be providing an official TwixT campaign Update (not simply a comment) later this evening which will go into specifics regarding your question and addressing the EU issue. And it will FULLY answer your question.

      You seem like a nice guy. I like that.

      Wayne

    13. Missing avatar

      MAFStarter
      Superbacker
      on

      HI Wayne, thanks for replying to me. I think I am having trouble with the specifics of what you are saying. Can I try again?

      I asked about whatt comfort you could give me about your position in the EU and what protection you could offer me if it turned out you were mistaken. Starting with the last point:
      "I am prepared to protect my rights to publish this game. Whatever that takes" versus "I would support at a level you are comfortable with". there have been campaigns (luckily none I have backed!) where the creator used the money to bills - like legal bills. So if it comes to the crunch would you be refunding me, or would your company be using its funds to defent the lawsuit first (if it were to happen). Maybe you feel that isn't a fair question in which case I'd accept that as a direct answer that I can work with!

      But that question is moot if you are as watertight if you think, so moving back to the first point:
      I don't know where James is from, but Jamie has mentioned being in the EU - as am I. I really feel there is a decent chance of your game being blocked here. I had asked what information/advice you have that could persuade me otherwise. Do you have anything you can point to that gives me anything to assess the ilkelihood of a problem in the EU. IS it just the trademark registration?

      I really wish I hadn't mentioned being on BGG now! this comments section makes it seem liks some sort of secret socety - it's just a website about board games (BoardGameGeek) and I'm not a designer, or publisher, or member of any club (or even a BGG poster). I just like games and I like kickstarter (too much says my other half, just enough says my credit card provider!)

    14. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @dharmesh the 3M version does have a four player variant but i dont think it’s very popular. “BLOKUS” is a multi-player game similar to TwixT. I do like the suggestion and wonder how that could work without having to scream out the word “Priviledge!”

      Wayne

    15. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @james it does not matter whether sodoku is a puzzle and TwixT is a game. A puzzle is always a game and sometimes games are puzzles.

      Wayne

    16. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @jamie thank you for backing in the first place...even though I know it was term. I do appreciate your viewpoint.

      Wayne

    17. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      I do want to address the @scottp situation...whoever he is is not me. A few days ago I did run a social media ad campaign encouraging people to post their memories of TwixT. @Scottp is not me nor is associated with me in any way.
      -Wayne

    18. Jamie Glasgow
      Superbacker
      on

      I'm entirely convinced "Scott" is actually Wayne, just under a different username. The language and grammar they "both" use is identical.

    19. Missing avatar

      ScottP on

      @James - Thanks for the conversation. I can certainly see the side you are presenting. My investment in this is no more than a lunch for 2 and possibly a chance to play an old game with my family. Wayne and Michael both have much deeper investments than myself. Best of luck to both of them and to you as well.

      Wayne - I look forward to seeing how this turns out for you.

    20. James on

      ScottP:
      "Secondly, I have not seen this contract so i DONT know what it stated."
      The terms were outlined in a BGG post you can read. I don't remember who posted them, but the other party didn't say they were inaccurate, so I will assume neither Wayne nor Mr Katz would lie about these terms when discussing them there.

      I think the part of the agreement Wayne ultimately objected to was that the trademark would be returned to Mr Katz if sales of Twixt fell below a certain level.

      To me, they sounded like very reasonable terms that respected Wayne's efforts as well as the rights of the Randolph estate.

      Wayne would've gotten to sell the game with the trademark for as long as there was interest from the public. And when it would fall below a level - implying people are not interested in the game anymore that would not warrant continued publication and thus would fall back into the shadows again - the trademark would've then been returned to the Randolph estate.

      Wayne changed his minds that he, under no circumstances, wants to ever give away the TwixT trademark again.

      What I would've liked to see Wayne do is to have an agreement with the Randolph estate - like they almost did. Agreeing to terms, having a contract drawn up (to the other party's expense) only to back out again - only to now in public try to start a conversation with Mr Katz again?
      I find it in very poor taste and I can understand if Mr Katz does not want to negotiate with Wayne further.
      In any case, discussing it here and now in the kickstarter comments is certainly the wrong venue and time for it. It should have been done before the campaign and in private.
      If he wants to actually resume negotiations - it should be done in private.

    21. Missing avatar

      ScottP on

      Repost

      @Mr Katz, first off, thank you for posting. By the time I had found out that you were looking to bring back TwixT was 6 months after I had already filed a trademark, bought the mold, and spent countless hours trying to make TwixT perfect for children. All rights had expired by this time. My invitation is still alive to put Alex's name on the cover (which isn't typically done in the US), pay you a royalty, and even transfer the EU Trademark. I will not cede the US Trademark. It's the only right available and I did work very hard for it. I'm sorry that some people disagree but that's the absolute reality. I'd even let you use the mold if you want. You have my email address, and if you want to speak further regarding this, please contact me. TwixT is a great game. Always has been, always will be. Let's bring it back.

      -Wayne

    22. Missing avatar

      ScottP on

      James - I do not think that producing 1000 units on Amazon is going to make him rich. I would see that as a matter of finishing what he started. Bringing Twixt back to the public so they can enjoy the game.

      Secondly, I have not seen this contract so i DONT know what it stated. Maybe, Wayne decided to get some advice as well and realized the contract "agreement" was not in his best interest. Who knows? If you do, then this is an unfair conversation. Have you read Wayne's post regarding his offer to Mr. Katz? Do you think that is an unfair start to coming to some kind of an agreement? If someone does not agree with the contract then it is wise to not sign a contract.

      What would you like to see Wayne do?

    23. James on

      ScottP:
      " If he is trying to make money off of this he will end up a poor man indeed. I would assume that is why he is trying to crowdfund this. "
      Incorrect - Wayne has mentioned before that even if this campaign doesn't fund, Wayne will produce 1000 units of TwixT to sell on Amazon.

      "Secondly, Mr. Doelazal has made multiple public attempts to work with Michael. It is up to Mr. Katz now if he wants to reach back out to Wayne and try to find a compromise."
      There already were attempts to work something out before this campaign was started. They had already come to a compromise both parties agreed on. After The Alex Randolph estate had paid a lawyer to draw up a contract with those terms, Wayne decided not to sign that contract.
      Offering Mr Katz terms that are even more in Wayne's favor now in public as a sign of good will is in poor taste.

    24. Missing avatar

      ScottP on

      @Jamie - I am interested in this topic. Maybe to my undoing. I have read the whole message board on BGG. I researched Alex and the history of Twixt. The internet does have its value. My acquaintance is through this KS as well, maybe Wayne and I will get to know each other at some point. I am fine with that.

      I must have been looking at a different Jamie Glasgow in Google Search that has been posting reviews on BGG for over a year. My bad sorry for that. I was giving the group a compliment, because their opinion does matter in this situation.

      That is unfair for you to suggest that Mr. Doelazal is not a decent human. If he is trying to make money off of this he will end up a poor man indeed. I would assume that is why he is trying to crowdfund this.

      Secondly, Mr. Doelazal has made multiple public attempts to work with Michael. It is up to Mr. Katz now if he wants to reach back out to Wayne and try to find a compromise. Business is about compromise. Everyone should learn how to give a little so everyone can gain.

      That is a little unfair for you to call my post nonsense when you yourself made the same effort to participate in this discussion. I think Wayne deserves backers who support him in this endeavor. Believe it or not but I support Mr. Katz as well. His Estate deserves to be heard on this matter.

    25. Jamie Glasgow
      Superbacker
      on

      Sorry @ScottP but a lot of that is nonsense and condescending and I get the impression you are an acquaintance of Wayne's.

      For starters, I never game here via BGG. I saw the game on Kickstarter and was directed to the BBG forum from this comments section. So it's not "my group".

      There is no agenda among any groups of gamers for me, but more a collective gasp from decent human beings concerned at the way the Randolph's family have been treated in this matter - even hugely respected game designers commenting as such.

      From all the evidence presented from this comments section and the various BGG forums, I think it has portrayed the designers the LCG team in a very poor light indeed, with a clear intent to profit off the works of others. Regardless of legal loop holes, it stinks to me and many more. When you throw in the cloak and dagger of not notifying Michael Katz, it's shady ever way you look at it!

      But to answer your analogy: "If someone inherits a nice house and they do not pay the taxes the govt will come and take it."

      The government would provide multiple warnings before it came to such an action surely? Not only that, but in writing stating very clearly what the course of action is. Was this done with Twixt?? No. So your analogy is very misguided.

      I was delighted to see this game come back. It's long overdue and I applaud the initial intent and work by LCG to actually do something about its revival. However, for me - and it indeed appears likewise for many others - the manner in which this has been achieved is completely unacceptable.

      So...the wait goes on for a new version of Twixt for me at least.

    26. Missing avatar

      ScottP on

      @Jamie - Yes there is a reason to pause on this KS. I disagree that there is any legal concern around copyright. This is a red herring that is being used to persuade current and future backers of this project. That is totally not factual on game copyrights. Wayne would only need to change rules and artwork. Ideas and mechanics cannot be copyrighted in the US or the EU. This is a fact known to all game designers.

      I keep seeing the BGG members coming on here and posting negatively and then leaving. What a strong group you guys have. Kudos for that. I think Wayne participated well in that long discussion with your group.

      I ask this question. For a group of game enthusiast and designers who appreciate what Twixt is; Why has it not been published in the US for 40 years and 20 years in the EU?

      That is what Wayne noticed and acted on. He has also recently directly offered something to Michael Katz. No reply that I can see from Mr. Katz

      Mr. Katz asked the ethical question - if he leaves his front door open does someone have the right to steal his stuff?

      I offer a different side. If someone inherits a nice house and they do not pay the taxes the govt will come and take it. Then it will go up for public auction. Would it be wrong for that person to go and blame the individual who just purchased it.

      This game should be given a second chance. Mr. Randolph passed away in 2004. May he rest in peace. The game was last published in 1998 in Europe and as mentioned previously it has been 40 years here in the US. How long is this front door going to be open before someone gets off the couch and shuts it.

      Best of Luck

    27. James on

      Jamie:
      Well said.

    28. Missing avatar

      Dharmesh on

      @All,
      Do you think Twixt would lend itself well to being a 4 player games?
      The board setup is currently for 2 players, was wondering how well it could work if perhaps Twixt had an extension pack, eg 2x additional colours (to add to red and blue) as well as tape, and then each player could go from one quarter to one quarter - any tried this? wondering if it would fit with the game dynamics?

    29. Jamie Glasgow
      Superbacker
      on

      Remember playing this game as a kid and was absolutely delighted to see it while browsing through Kickstarter. Despite the somewhat uninspiring campaign page, I still jumped in straight away with a pledge.

      I was completely oblivious to all the fall out regarding this game, but have spent the last few days looking over everything that has been said on Kickstarter and indeed on BGG and I am absolutely gobsmacked.

      I'm sorry, but the way the makers of this incarnation of the classic game have come accross has been shocking and completely immoral in my opinion. Sure, "legally" what they have done may be OK, but that does not mean it is correct for one second. It simple an absolute affront to the legacy of such an iconic game designer.

      I predict, especially when it comes to the very strict EU copyright laws - which I know a lot more about rather than US laws - the fulfilment of this game will be most definately not be plain sailing, especially if Randolph's family continue their challenge - which should also be sending massive alarm bells to EU backers. The chances of EU backers ever receiving this game are very, very slim for me.

      Even seeing the FAQ's for the campaign focuses on the whole "legality" of the intellectual property theft is alarming.

      Needless to say...I'm out. I'm simply no longer comfortable backing this game one bit!

      And to the creators, had your motivation truly been just to bring back a much loved classic then you should have went out your way to work with the creators family, not go behind their back at every opportunity.

      It breaks my heart to say this as a champion of kickstarter and board gaming, but I sincerely hope this campaign fails to reach funding.

    30. James on

      LCG:
      You keep bringing up Sudoku to make points regarding what can and can't be protected.
      My point is that the two are not really comparable, since Sudoku is not a game at all, but a puzzle.
      So when looking at rights, you can only compare Sudoku puzzles and TwixT puzzles.
      Both are equal in protection when a puzzle (TwixT or Sudoku puzzle) is published.
      But IMO you can't legally compare Sudoku puzzles with Twixt, the game.

    31. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @james can you please explain your comment... “I think a Sudoku Puzzle is equivalent to a TwixT puzzle as far as copyright goes. A puzzle (sudoku) is not a game like twixt, so legally the situations are different,”

    32. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @MAFStarter that, my friend, is a good question.

      I don’t need to recap anything for you as your are well aware. Should litigation be pursued against LCG, I am prepared to protect my rights to publish this game. Whatever that takes.

      As a backer who wants this game, I would support at a level you are comfortable
      With to display the support of the campaign, knowing that you can change later. We still have 3 weeks left. You never know what will happen ;)

      Wayne

    33. Missing avatar

      MAFStarter
      Superbacker
      on

      HI Wayne,
      I have also been following with interest because Twixt comes up on BGG frequently as peoples favourite game they wish could come back. I've never seen the original.

      you seem 100% sure that us European backers are fine. Can you share what gives you this confidence or what you have in place to protect yourself (and so deliver my copy of the game)? I have previously pledged to a kickstarter that had an IP issue that was 'ridiculous' in the creators opinion. After the kickstarter closed it was removed from the site for a while. He settled with them and changed the product (just as well because a week later a different international brand had a ruling that agreed with his challenger and he would have lost without the settlement. I don't know the etiquette around naming it in another campaign's public page - I'll private mail you if you want to know which one I mean. Not a game).

      Kickstarter is somewhere that I give you money for the promise of something. I need to work out the chances of that 'something' being the game I pledged for, or a nice after-dinner story about this the kickstarter campaign that got embroiled in a court case and had its assets frozen (or whatever). I need you to help me make that judgement before I decide whether to go all-in or cancel. Reading the BGG stuff - yes I read all the linked posts and it took me all weekend - it seems to me that you are in a difficult situation for copyright in Europe. I personally feel you are in a stronger position in the US, but still not unasailable - but that is for the US backers to worry about. So, that is the reason I am asking about your views for Europe - if you do get a legal challenge what is your plan?

      Are us Europeans best not backing until this is resolved?

    34. James on

      LCG:
      I think you believe the law is more clearcut than it might be.
      I was not implying a trademark infringement, but a possible infringement of creator's rights.

      "nobody has countered with my Sudoku example"
      I thought we had discussed this already? I think a Sudoku Puzzle is equivalent to a TwixT puzzle as far as copyright goes. A puzzle (sudoku) is not a game like twixt, so legally the situations are different, unless you only compare sudoku puzzles to twixt puzzles and not the twixt game itself.

      "Any more discussion on how this version of TwixT is illegal or counterfeit....is simply not true."
      That's what you believe, but your belief alone does not mean it's true. Legal arguments regarding creator's rights have been brought up before, and again you nor I don't know what would happen if the Alex Randolph estate was to take action for breaking it.

      "It further muddies the waters from when you said it's legal but unethical."
      I don't believe I have ever said that your attempt of TwixT was definitely legal. I may have argued that "Even _if_ it was legal, then...", but I am positive I have never affirmed that this TwixT attempt is 100% legal.

    35. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @James I think you are missing an important point...Creator right's simply don't exist for ideas, however the expression for Alex's work is protected on his puzzles. Having said that, even if they did, the Berne Convention Harmonizes all international copyright protections. TwixT was first made widely available in 1962 by 3M, and the US would be the originator of that copyright. They owned it because of their registration. TwixT is NOT a counterfeit, as that implies Trademark infringement. TwixT is not protected by any copyrights, as I have said, and nobody has countered with my Sudoku example. Any more discussion on how this version of TwixT is illegal or counterfeit....is simply not true. It further muddies the waters from when you said it's legal but unethical.

    36. James on

      LCG:
      I'd argue they could still seize it as counterfeit goods even if you own the trademark under creator's rights for the TwixT game.

      The second argument of yours I find in poor taste - because with it you're essentially saying that if you are indeed breaking laws of some kind, you don't care because the customs might not care because the brand is not big enough.

      Besides, I'm not sure it'll hold any water. A similar discussion came up with the "Heroquest 25th anniversary edition" crowdfunding campaign. The story of that campaign is a lot longer than even this one - with discussions about copyrights, trademarks, involving multiple companies (Heroquest involves Games Workshop and Hasbro besides the person/company who ran the campaign).

      Packages with the games being seized was brought up multiple times, and I think there is a specific process if you believe your rights are being infringed and want infringing parcels intercepted. Of course, this did NOT only involve big name brands only, although obviously not as many resources will likely be dedicated to find such infringing packages as with smaller IPs.

    37. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      Thank you for your comments. I need fo point out a factual inaccuracy to @andre. Customs will not seize TwixT for a couple of reasons, one of which I own the Trademark, and second but most importantly, if this was a major brand such as Star Wars or something, maybe. But not TwixT. I know this is important to the three of you as you spend much time posting, but I did want to clear that much up.

    38. André on

      Really? Now it is leftist thinkin that derails this KS? Sorry, but I have never seen such a far-fetched accusation on any KS.

      Regarding questions being answered. There are answers, but they do not always answer the questions asked, especially when it regards legal stuff outside the US.
      And the question of Mr. Katz is quite legit, at least in Europe. I would not call it stealing, but it is at least ignoring European laws, which in the end will hurt the delivery of the KS to Europe.
      @Wayne
      Are you telling us that you invested in the game before you checked the legal issues? Sorry, but that is the first thing one does when reviving an old product. And the efforts of Katz were not that secret if one did some research. Not getting an immediate answer does not make someone lose the rights to something. And the game is not legal in every way. Maybe in the US, but even there a court might rule differently, until then you can´t claim it.

      And actually you are not experiencing anything new on KS, other companies with legally problematic situations have experienced the same comments. And if we look at how they turned out later when not listening to those comments… the backers were the ones that lost most of times. Your KS will be not reaching its goal because of the lack of advertising in the right places, the comments in the end are just another brick in the wall, but definitely not the main reason.

      @Ryan
      I hate to be the one telling it to you, but the way you attack others is actually trolling.

      @Scott
      The problem is international law, since the game was created in Austria the legal situation now I quite complicated. And chances are high that if the game ever gets delivered to Europe the customs will seize and destroy the games since the legal situation has not been solved. Even in the US it is not 100% clear. Wayne has found a loophole, but a court might still rule differently. It is quite difficult for non-legal folks to understand law and I can understand that, but one has to point out possible legal problems. It would be a disservice to the backers if not. In Europe the heirs still have the rights until 70 years have past after the death of the original creator. And it is like this in most parts of the world. In the US it is slightly different.

      Copyrights with games are complex, since some part of the rules can be protected, others not, there is a certain level of your own work that has to be done to create new rights. Also art and other stuff can also be protected. That is written in a simple way and I sway more complex in legal terms, but will give you a basic idea.

      From a moral pov the game is already on the black list, most people in the industry knew within a few days after the start of the KS about the situation and the general consensus is that usual distributors won´t touch it with a pole since the consider it too risky in legal terms.

    39. James on

      ScottP:
      Well, if you look at earlier comments of me I think there were some where I do say that they should work on a compromise. I still think that would be a fair solution.
      Your example only mentioned one or another party's monetary purpose so I went with that.

      Lil Cerebral Games:
      From your perspective it certainly must looks like detractors are "villains".

      A completely unrelated party comes in ( and not the first ) and says that attitudes of you and your associates are a problem.
      Are you not starting to see the pattern here?

      It is an unconventional campaign, but frankly, you should have expected the types of comments you have received after you already got them in the various BGG threads.
      Those attitudes and opinions of the overwhelming majority of board gaming fans didn't just disappear when you decided to go ahead with the campaign without working something out with the Alex Randolph estate beforehand.

    40. duchamp on

      @JKP: Exactly.

      @Wayne: In the last phase of comments, you took completely over, Ryan stepped back, so you work on your façade trying to make a good impression. Well, all was said here already and I think most people will be clever enough to refrain from backing this.
      146 backers after 10 days and 23% is already a sinking ship. What you should consider before starting a campaign: It is very hard to get more than 300, 350 backers. Make sure, that if these 350 pledge on a base level (here: the game for $ 25), you reach your goal. This campaign doesn't work out - you'd need 732 backers.

      Regarding "the end": As a screenwriter I can tell you:
      This here is only the midpoint, called the crisis. It is the first confrontation between the protagonist and the antagonist. Here the protagonist fails and learns, that his first approach was dead wrong. He has to personally change first, before he is able to become the hero and reach his new goal.

      Learn your lessons, Wayne, cancel this, talk with Michael Katz and start together a campaign honouring TwixT and Randolph - a campaign you can pe proud of and everybody will support.

      This is then ok, and the end of the story.

    41. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @Ryan @Natalie As always thanks for your support. Everything is always ok in the end. If it's not ok, then it is not the end.

    42. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @Stephen you will be able to play TwixT with your son ;)

    43. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @Mr Katz thank you again for posting. Looking forward to hearing form you

    44. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @Stuart Thank you for the well wishes

    45. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @Jennifer Thank you for answering James's question. Thank you for backing.

    46. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @TamTam Thank you four your post. I don't know how many KS Products you must back to become a SuperBacker. But it's probably alot. Have fun!

    47. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @JKP I get your opinion. This is a campaign that has been unconventional since Day 2 when a few people hung around for the simple purpose of driving this campaign to the ground. They even said they hope the project fails, etc. that’s not normal for a KS campaign. It’s only so long after so much misinformation is pummeled again and again do I, and sometimes my friends, “lose it” if you will, and make snarky comments. Having said that, @impact has provided an appropriate level of discourse and I really enjoyed engaging with him. This is definitely a campaign that hasn’t been seen before on KS. But I do enjoy it. On your 2 year point...im not sure whether or not to send out the army or the National Guard to collect the old instructions ;)
      Take care and thanks for your comment.

      Wayne

    48. JKP
      Superbacker
      on

      $1 in

      I back KS games. A lot. Too many.

      I like TwixT. I have several (4?) old but mint condition copies. I see maybe 1 used but great condition copy a month in my thrift store travels for $2-4 so they are out there, easily obtainable, and $90 on Amazon is a joke.

      I read that the game was getting reprinted and headed over to check it out.

      Discovered the controversy in the FAQ (no offense but when the entire FAQ is defending yourself that seems like a bad first impression). So I headed to the BGG thread posted. Yikes! I then read every single comment here. Yikes x 2.

      While the whole Trademark issue seems a bit slimy to me I have no idea who is legally in the right or not. Its not really my concern as it will get figured out one way or another by people more learned than I. But I do know I won't back the campaign. Why? Because of the condescension, attitude, and attacks of the creator and a few 'friends'. In my many KS experiences I've never seen anything like it.

      Anyway, just wanted to share that I'm not out because of the controversy, I'm out because of the attitude. @Impact! is correct.

      $1 out

      And hey, while I'm at it, your Name in the Rules pledge level makes me laugh. "...your name included in the instructions for 2 years!". So what, in 2 years you will send someone over to my house and rip out that page?

      Ok, now $1 out

    49. Lil Cerebral Games Creator on

      @Scottp that would probably be more of a “Shark Tank” idea versus KS. Nonetheless I do hope you pursue it. Cabinetry (am i using that word wrong?) is one of those things that really could improve home value if done right

    50. Missing avatar

      ScottP on

      James, here is what you stated.

      "And if we assume both parties only have monetary purposes for republishing the game in mind, personally my opinion is still that it should belong with the original designer's relative."

      You did not say that they should workout a compromise. You are saying that Wayne should stop and give all the rights back to the estate that lost them in the first place. You do care, so that is a little disingenuous. But we can agree to disagree.

      Lil Cerebral - thanks for the interest. I have always been extremely handy at woodworking and have always wanted to start a custom cabinet company that is accessible via the internet. The customer could log in and design their custom cabinets on the web. Probably already exists but I think I could do a better job with the workmanship. Thanks

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