Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
@Bill I left you a message several days ago asking when those of us who pledged the $100.00 level would be seeing both our Seaferer's Boards and the Card Holders? I still have not received either. Would love to hear if you can give us a solid date and better yet, meet that date this time, so we are all not still bickering on this message board It would be the right thing to do. Thanks.
@Joel. To be perfectly honest, I even disagree with John D, which is rare. Your post was NOT well said. Never in my protests about Bill's KS('s) did I ever resort to calling someone an asshole. Where you are wrong lies in two points- 1) Our (the backers who have complained) stance is a reaction to Bill's initial attitudes towards the question of this and the other KS being late with little communication. Being in customer service, you should expect that your customers are going to react if you do not do as you said you would...or you call them an asshole. And #2) Our rights as consumers. If you can look in the mirror and honestly say there has never been a time that you have felt you deserve better from someone providing a good or service, then I can applaud you. I suspect however, that you, like many of us, have a button that gets pushed that fuels your desire to not be taken advantage of. Mine was the attitude. Simply put, It is part of KS policy that refunds be available if product is not delivered. Money may not mean much in this scenario to you Joel, and feel free to take whatever high ground you need. I, simply want the product, or the refund per KS rule. And for that...I offer no apology. As far as hateful remarks...well, i think the "asshole" comment speaks greater volumes than I could write.
Well said Joel, don't agree but your right to express an opinion is respected. We all want to make this project work.
Oh by the way expressing a contrary or confrontational opinion does not make an arsehole ... but if you insist on such welcome, you just joined "The League of Extraordinary UnGentlemen"
Hi Bill, I posted on the update regarding the RCH... do you know if everything is fine for my receiving my order of the RCH from when I pledged originally? As mentioned, my address remained the same, but my Kickstarter account name and e-mail changed to my company. Hope everything is in order. Thank you in advance for checking. Marcus
Just because you give someone money in a transaction for a product doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. How can you possibly think spamming this comment board with hateful remarks and threatening to file complaints with government agencies will help any?!
At this point it's gotten personal for you guys for some reason. Bill's KS didn't go as smoothly as planned and for some reason you feel like it's your mission to make this guy's life hell now. As someone said, KS isn't a pre-order website. When I pledged money to this I never expected a guarantee that I would receive anything. Sure the guy has a responsibility to fulfill his project and I sure hope he comes through with it, but holy hell, harrassing the guy isn't going to help in any way. I work in customer service and I'm damn good at it, but I can't I blame Bill one moment for asking "what is wrong with you?" because I want to ask the same thing.
Bill, just focus on message from people like Chris and Monique. While you have an obligation to fulfill your promise to all of your backers, people like Michael Y, Micheal S and John D are not the type of people worth doing it for.
@Bill - glad my message had a positive effect :-)
@Monique Dwyer and @Chris: Well said!
Yes, it hasn't been what I hoped, but I think Bill has given me the impression he has done the best he can. Any investigation isn't going to happen despite the wild dreams of the below because there hasn't been any fraud, at least as far as I understand it. And I accepted an element of risk to get the product made. The Mayfair situation is harsh and has been as damaging to us getting our stuff as anything else, if backers moaned there they ultimately just spited themselves in getting their stuff. And at the end of the day KS is not a discount pre-order service but something that enables people to try and create a product.
@Monique Your comment made me happy, thank you. I love the UK, and if I ever visit, I'll try to remember, I'm always up for coffee and Catan.
I don't know the particulars of your situation, but my guess is that you pledged for a regular Catan board (either 3-4 player or 5-6 player) and added $10 for a set of card holders. Bill addresses that in the update:
"Important Note for All Backers: If you pledged additional money for more RCH sets, please make sure you make a note of it in your survey response or message me on Kickstarter to notify me so that I can manually update your fulfillment quantities. Until we get our pledge management software up and running I'll have to track this manually in a spreadsheet. Thank you!"
Essentially: If you are getting the card holders, but didn't explicitly pledge for something that includes them, be sure to send Bill a message so he knows to send you your card holders. :)
@Bill. Real sorry you're receiving such hateful remarks and comments, people should be ashamed. I contributed to an idea I liked in the hopes that it would get off the ground and looked on the 'reward' as a bonus that might come from the 'flutter'. Make no mistake it was a little gamble as all the other backers should have recognised. Win or lose I still like the idea. I love my basic settlers board and have had hours of fun with it. In addition when holidaying in North Carolina last year I saw the boards on sale in a game store and felt proud to think I had helped to get it there. Chin up Bill don't let life's misery guts get you down and if you make it to the UK and fancy a good coffee and a game of catan .... look me up!
Glad to hear news about the RCH. That is literally all I am waiting on, but I don't understand the logistics of sending only those with a 10$ order or a 100$+ order, because the rest need to ship with the board. I already received my board. Does that mean my RCH will ship alone (soon) or will I need to wait for the later shipment period, even though it's not shipping with a board?
Can't help thinking of the saying ...
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
@BIll. "Backers need to be held to the same standards of human kindness that I'm held to"
Bullshit. You took our money, and have yet to deliver that which we've paid for. And once again you're offering to "make up for it" by giving us "store credit" to buy more crap for you. Personally, I've already ordered everything I could possibly want from you and your business, so store credit is utterly and completely worthless. Give me what I paid for. Or refund me IN FULL for the money that you've been sitting on for a year now. Sure, you took a small haircut on KS fees, but you've also had my money for a year, and used it to build your badly run business.
We trusted you, you took our money, and you've repeatedly shit on that trust. So no. We don't have the same standards at all to try and live up to. Because we've paid you to operate at a MUCH higher level than you have.
@John- While I share your frustration over Bill's actions, and lack of actions. I do think that your last comment was unnecessary. Bill's words stand on their own, and we do not need to unnecessarily mock him.
Bill mentioned "...over 14,000 SF module parts..."
WOW! I hadn't run the numbers on that before!
So that was your update then Bill ? .... or are you needing time to emotionally recover before you can post the update you were about to post two days ago.
@Bill - I'm going to keep this short and simple
1) Again, your reply is very condescending, which is, unfortunately, par for the course. Your customer service is non-existent.
2) You don't see me reprimanding anyone else in these comments because none of them have done anything against me, warranting a reprimand - the commentators, fellow backers, here owe me nothing - you, on the other hand, do.
3) I'd be careful on what you presume I do, or do not know, concerning Mayfair. You need to understand more is known then you think, I'll leave that there.
@ Bill- You just don't get it do you? It's called "personal responsibility" and it goes well with "human kindness". I, along with others have been pleading to you to do the things that responsible business owners are supposed to do to keep customers happy. You simply will not listen, nor will you respond, until it reaches the point of boiling over. The others are right, and this is not the first time you have treated a backer with unprofessionalism. The facts that are evident are for all to see. You have run this KS poorly, won't admit it, and you treat your backers poorly. Whether or not you like me, hate me, or dislike the things I have said to you, you could have solved a lot of this by sitting down for 15 minutes each week and communicating the ups and downs, the problems and wins, and what YOU will do to be responsible for YOUR Kickstarter being fulfilled. You sir, simply have not done that. Blaming Mayfair for the situation is not professional either. You and I both know that these stories run deeper. So if I sounded harsh in my suggestion of recourse, it is not without legitimacy. This is business, not a friendship or a social experiment. If you do not treat your customers in a manner that is in line with good business practices, you will not have customers. If you do not fulfill your commitment for your product, you can expect somebody to take action.
@Michael Sprague You have no idea what happened with Mayfair, so please don't talk about it like you do.
My post was out of line? Do tell. Welcome to my life for the past 6 months. I don't see you reprimanding anybody in these comments. Does human decency only run one way? Backers need to be held to the same standards of human kindness that I'm held to. Kickstarter is a community of positive, innovation-focused people, it's time some people started behaving like it.
We're not going to ship the RCH's until the SF boards are done as they go in the same box. We may do an early shipment for those who pledged for greater than $100 and those who pledged for just the RCH, but we have to wait until we get our new address database setup as we already sent out that Kickstarter survey (and not only do they only let you send it once, they don't let backers update their own address which is a huge oversight on their part). All RCH's and all KS rewards will have the Catan logo, I've stated this very clearly before. The logo removal is for production only.
The SF mold is in polishing right now, and production will begin as soon as it gets back. I've also stated this repeatedly. Production alone will take at least two months at full capacity, it's over 14,000 SF module parts, not counting packaging time.
More details in the update, which I would have written yesterday until I used the 30 minutes to prevent a backer from following through on his threat to report me to the FTC if I didn't kowtow to his demands in an arbitrary 48 hours.
@bill - your post was out of line and most unprofessional. Which seems to be, unfortunately, the norm for your responses, that is, when you respond.
And, for the record, the FTC is now looking into KS campaigns, most recently they dealt with "The Doom that came to Atlantic City" - a campaign the only raised $122k (less than 25% of what you have). It should also noted, they went after the creator even after a larger company came in and took over the obligations of the campaign.
There are a few other cases pending, and they are looking into opening others. The FTC is a reality in the KS world.
Surely you understand the frustrations of your backers, this isn't anything new - many people, before Michael Y. have expressed these things (including the FTC) - which tells me you haven't been keeping up with the comments.
When people ask for transparency, they are not asking for your living conditions - they want to know where their money went. As of today, we don't know where it went - because you have chosen not to say anything of significant, or verifiable, let alone take responsibility. Even in this latest rant, and that is what it was, a childish rant disguised as rhetoric, you laid blame everywhere else. Take Mayfair, as an example; you hurt your relationship with them by your inconsistencies. They, unlike your backers, were able to call your bluff. You understand, in the real business world, a backer would have either pulled his investment out or have taken legal recourse, by this point.
Rather then rant about a single post, try taking the time to answer the questions multiple backers have asked, multiple times:
Honest deadline for Seafarer board.
Where are the RCH's, and which ones will backers get: ones you showed that were made, or something without the Catan logo?
What is the target date to ship?
After, and I believe it should be after, you can answer the questions to the first campaign, you should answer the second campaign.
I am not a backer of the second campaign, in short, because there was no way I would have been foolish enough to give you more money, which you have proven to me to be the only good decision I made in all of this. But I have to ask, knowing a sizable chunk of backers in #2 are from #1, why would you throw out the notion of a credit, in lieu of the bag? You tried a similar stunt with this campaign, and got a huge backlash. All of this tells me you haven't learned anything, and I find that as equally discouraging as your immature responses.
You are the creator of this project, it is up to you to encourage and reassure your backers, not the other way around.
Ok Bill, so where is the update or was that it ?
@All- Here is the response I posted on the other KS, I will post it here also-
@Bill- you really unloaded on me...and it is out there. Hey everyone else, think of me what you will, but I believe we all have the right to basics in a transaction, even if there is implied risk. We should be able to count on the person who took over 500k from consumers to provide better accountability, better communication, and better transparency. Bill simply has not held up his end of the bargain. I no longer want his product, I want a refund. The shroud of secrecy he has held on the horrifically tardy project(s) has fostered an environment of distrust. An environment he could have prevented with real communication and honest answers instead of mocking us with statements indicating it will "all seem silly". People can toss up the argument that KS is a total gamble, well, it is not. There are implied rights within the KS agreement, and there are consumer rights that support my decision to ask for a refund. Bill, please send my 100 dollars back and we will part ways.
Then just give me my money back please.
@Michael What on EARTH is your problem? I go to post an update today and find somehow within a week's time suddenly you're making accusations that I've lawyered up, have stolen everybody's money and you're now thinking about contacting the FTC?!
Do you realize how completely insane that is? The FTC handles large-scale corporate fraud. We're a small business in SLO California trying desperately to keep our word to all of our backers. Never ONCE have I given up on anything, no matter what unexpected issues came our way, even from companies who were supposed to be our biggest supporters, and you continue to post on here like some kind of self-congratulatory policeman of the Kickstarter universe.
I'm in the middle of communications with the east coast bag manufacturer right now, which is the ONLY current unknown in our fulfillment by the way (as a result of a vendor going back on their word, not on any lack on our part), working through if we might be able to use different colors/materials etc to save costs, and I come back on here and the comments are in flames. Just utter chaos. It's unbelievable. You should be ashamed of yourself. I had to turn off notifications for comments for both of our Kickstarters because I'd get so discouraged during the day while I'd be working and these incessantly hateful comments would just come pouring through on my phone. There were days I'd get so down my friends would even notice, and have to cajole me to remember that all is good.
You post on here thinking that you're doing some good, noble thing, but in reality all you're doing is crushing every single ounce of motivation I have to keep on continuing through everything. Fortunately for everyone else who actually supports our projects, I try to ignore most of the hate and keep working, but you're doing noone any favors by continuing to post such ill-founded, self-righteous hatred.
Your comment "Bill has done NOTHING...zero, nada, squadiddle to support the people he took over a half million dollars from." absolutely drove me up the wall. What a completely asinine thing to say.
Really? Nothing? Really. Let me let you into a little insight into the realities of a day in the life of Bill. First off, I’ve been living with my parents since we closed the Kickstarter in 2012. Yes, that’s right, for 3 years I’ve been living and continue to live with my parents so I don’t have to pay rent. My parents help me with food as well. I alternate between driving and biking to the factory to help save on gas. I take a very small monthly stipend from our company to pay for food, gas and costs of being alive, but still have to use a credit card at times during unexpected emergencies. We have one part-time employee, and he packages our boards into boxes for us, for both retail and online sales. Other than that we have virtually no overhead. All of our molds are paid for, and we have no debt. I work nearly every workday on both our online sales and the production for our Kickstarter fulfillment. Nearly all of the fulfillment has been packaged entirely by myself, our employee and in earlier fulfillment Nate helped as well.
Earlier this year I took a job at Starbucks so I could keep as much money within our company as possible. I worked there for about 3 or 4 months saving money, and then quit when fulfillment went full-steam so that I could help with packaging and managing the shipping flow.
Cash is very tight now. After we parted ways with Mayfair, they contacted our distributors for the entire US retail market and leaned on them to never purchase from us again. So now all of our money we had in inventory intended to be distributed via retail suddenly had nobody to purchase it and had to be sent to warehouses for our online fulfillment. Our online sales are barely a FRACTION of what our entire US retail market sales were, so that was a HUGE hit to our business. Borderline catastrophic, in fact. In order to make up for it, I’m having to work on a direct distribution model, whereby independent hobby shops will be able to buy from us directly. Add on top of that the costs of re-branding all of our retail packaging and getting rid of the Catan logos from all our mold tooling, and you can imagine how that affected us financially.
So next time you think about posting some pompous comment about how you’re going to save the day and contact the FTC or call the president and have him demand a Congressional investigation or something, just do us all a favor and don’t. Thank you.
@Neville- I certainly understand you wanting to be optimistic, but I am choosing and encouraging people to be proactive. Bill has done NOTHING...zero, nada, squadiddle to support the people he took over a half million dollars from. Be aware, the backers are not the only ones who have had "poor communication" from Bill. The larger entities involved in this have had similar issues with Bill. Until Bill gives concrete evidence that production on all items is ongoing and has a delivery date, we must take the stance that he has no intention to fulfill his obligation. He has lied to us, mocked us, and ignored us. I, for one, will be contacting the FTC if he does not respond within 48 hours. I will also be dealing with the "No help from KS" situation. This type of thing cannot go be allowed to happen again.
You're right about your detailed history of this project in your comment from five days ago. And you're right about me being an optimist. (And for what it's worth, I also pledged for some, but not all, of the items in the second KickStarter, just so you know where I'm coming from.)
I've thought about this for some time now. I don't know that it's any different than what has been going on. We all know that things take time, and that stuff* happens along the way sometimes. I think we all have different limits of how long past a deadline we're willing to wait and how much stuff we're willing to tolerate.
Unless you think that the Seafarers board part Bill held up in the video was actually made months/years ago (and similarly with the still photos of dice towers, which I know you don't care about), we know that Bill has been actively working on this project. That's what I'm personally looking for: Bill is actively working on the project. We know that stuff has happened both outside of and within Bill's control that has set these projects back. I think Bill has what it takes to persevere and continue on despite earlier setbacks, because he's made it this far and has shown us that he's still going at it. I also don't see what future setbacks there could be, aside from finding a bag manufacturer for the second KickStarter or walking the perilous line of handling credit/refunds. (I did not back the bag personally, so I might feel different if I had.) That's why I'm still backing Bill.
So again: I don't know that it's different. But I wasn't up in arms earlier, and I'm not up in arms now. And as long as we keep getting meaningful updates, I'll be okay until all of the products are fulfilled. And based on the fact that he has started to build stock of a number of these products, I know that eventually backers will receive them.
I do understand where you are coming from, though. There are unanswered questions, like which (if any) logos will be on the products we'll receive. I eagerly await future updates that let us in on the specifics here.
*I'm keeping it respectful and considerate. You know what word I wanted to use here. :)
Hey John, hey everyone, as a backer of this KS, I did get my product. However, it looks like many did not get any of the other items besides the boards. I wonder if Bill has lawyered up, being told not to respond, and is looking at financial damage control. I simply cannot see a scenario where this guy is able to fulfill his obligations. I have contacted my CC company and they have opened a case. It looks like someone has posted a link to the FTC. Are we ready to take that step yet? Like I said, I have no confidence he will be coming through with the bags. I simply see no other choice but to make sure that no one else gets ripped off by this guy.
Seafarers boards are never coming, they are now Hex boards.
No idea what is happening with the Catan RCH - given Bill won't communicate about that too (only in passing mentioned having to remove the Catan logo from the RCH mold) one can only speculate what happened to the existing pile of RCH.
Bill hasn't learned, never will learn. He is incapable of connecting with the social consequences of his actions.
The only thing going for this is Bill's tenacity despite his financial, project management and social incompetence.
Neville - We've "seen" the RCH's... We've “seen” plenty of pictures of the Seafarers board parts, he even assembled one and picked it up, said how great it turned out (before this update)... We've SEEN a lot of things... but nothing has been delivered on, since the original board.... except the next excuse...
Let’s talk about the RCH’s that we reported as done - Why sit on a product for over 5 months??? and don't give me any line about packaging - my original Catan board, the ONLY thing I have received, came in a plain brown box... but now he's talking about how they had to take the name, Catan, off of the mold…
Which RCH will we get? The ones WITH the Catan logo (that are already done) or will he suddenly have to do a DIFFERENT/new, run of them?
At one point in time he made it sound like (if anything, he has mastered the skill of being vague) all previous things with the logo, pertaining to the campaign, would still go out with the logo, just nothing going forward - but why are we spending time and money on removing the name from the RCH right now?
Why doesn't the Seafarer board have any logo on it? Think about this… because he sat on the whole thing, and didn't get moving - as a result, we don't get anything that resembles "official".
Which goes to the divorce between Bill and Mayfair - if he had been on top of things, taken responsibility and kept it truly moving along, he would not have lost the faith of Mayfair - who's pressure was on him because he wasn't answering backers, and backers were going to Mayfair for the answers - But because of his mismanagement, he ultimately lost the use of the Catan name and logo, remember, this WAS the "official" Catan board - and while we're (possibly) getting a board, it has no real connection to Catan, other than it really only has one use; I would think it would be hard to build a “viable” company around a one-use board, and not be able to say the name of that use... it's the "hex" board...
AND when it comes to the assembling of dice towers (which does have the name on them, so how long has he sat on THOSE parts before finally assembling them?) and this campaign, his FIRST obligation.... who cares??? There were no Dice Towers for this campaign... those were part of the campaign that people threw MORE money at him so he could FINISH what he started, which he hasn't.
I don’t care if the dice towers are being done, they should be lower on the totem pole… how about finishing the campaign that you started 20 months BEFORE that one???? You do understand that he started the SECOND CAMPAIGN 13 MONTHS after he was supposed to fulfill the FIRST CAMPAIGN, right?
Bill's lack of communication, a choice he made (and continues to make), cost him Mayfair's support, Backer's support, and all this equals: wasted time, materials and money.
There is part of me that is encouraged that there are optimists in the world, such as yourself, but at the same time... sometimes you need to wake up and smell the reality - he has yet to deliver on any promises since the original board - He constantly/consistently makes the same mistakes - there has been nothing new, and each excuse he has used on this campaign he has recycled and used on the second campaign - He even offered the second group the same sort of "credit", for products that don't exist, just like he did with this group, the first time he tried to jump ship on the Seafarers board...
Remember that offer for some sort of PERCENTAGE OFF coupon, for a limited time, while his store was empty...
We've seen all this before... which goes back to my original question, that you are responding to, why do we think this time it is any different?
At this rate, I believe the Cubs (of which I am a great fan) will win a World Series and the Second Coming of Christ will happen before the RCH’s and Seafarers boards will arrive…
Fool me once.....
Michael Sprague asked, "Why does anyone think THIS time it's the real deal?"
Dice towers are clearly being assembled. (We've seen a photo with 40 of them now.) The flow channel has greatly improved the look of the Seafarers board. No more rough ribs. No ugly ejector pin marks.
Clearly progress is being made. I'm personally keeping hope alive.
still silent here.... although, I would have gladly paid the admission ticket of $1 on the other campaign to get in on the conversation there... I can't believe people are actually considering giving Bill MORE money to get the bags made... SERIOUSLY????
It's bad enough that he created a campaign to fund the first campaign - but for people to consider giving MORE money to fund what was already funded in a second campaign?
AND all of this when he hasn't produced ANYTHING for TWO YEARS - all we have seen is the regular board... no sign of the Seafarer or RCH - he can talk about it all he wants in the video - but the reality is - he's been TALKING about it for TWO YEARS... why does anyone think THIS time it's the real deal?
How about the update on 1/26/15 (a year and half late) that said the mold was done AND all the materials are already bought for both the RCH and Seafarers molds...
remember this post on 2/4/15... looks like traction...
Why what's this a picture of??? we presume the RCH... and they're getting ready to ship... really???
how about this one (2/24/15 - over a year and eight months LATE)
COMPLETED and ready to ship... just finishing up the backerkit... and........ still waiting
and then there was the next update... TWO MONTHS LATER... everything is good to go.. we even have video....
and the hits just keep rolling... keeping in mind that ALL of these came nearly 2 years AFTER they were supposed to be DELIVERED on... that's NOT COUNTING the time they were supposed to be developed in...
WHICH BTW - is what you were supposed to do BEFORE and DURING the campaign - not AFTER...
HOW is it possible that you can go into a SOFT GOODS manufacturer and get a PROTO done and NOT know what it's going to cost in the end???
If the POINT of that campaign was to raise money to bring the Seafarer mold out of the hole you dug it into (because you didn't do the work BEFORE the campaign that should have been done)... where are the margins on the bags??? OR were the margins on the bags never really intended to go to supplement the Seafarer mold??? HOW did you NOT count the cost, and even factor in worse case scenarios - CONSIDERING your last campaign has been nothing BUT worst case scenarios???? At what point in time does one actually LEARN???
and we still have NOTHING... and someone wants to trust if they give this person MORE MONEY they will actually get their BAG???
people gave him more money to get the Seafarer and RCH's... and that hasn't happened...
AND the notion that Bill actually still has the bag money set aside, so all you have to do is ADD to it... that's cute...
I know Bill doesn't like "negative" comments - and he wants everyone to be "cool" - cool left the building a year ago... and that's just because cool was trying to be nice....
"Left Brain with a Right Brain Eye. Idea Executer. Rapid product development and market deployment. http://www.catanboards.co
San Luis Obispo, CA·about.me/billtrammel"
Bill's Twitter header ... rapid product development and market deployment.
Yep, truth in advertising.
@john - I get what you're saying, and I'm with you,most of the way, I'm not so optimistic about getting the Seafarer or RCH... However, there has been no valid proof the money has been spent on much of anything he claims. With over $500k in play (between the two campaigns), I have yet to see $500k in molds, materials or products - the question is if he has taken any of that as pay, salary or compensation; which he does not deserve.
Bill hasn't spent money on himself in the same way, his problem has been project management incompetence, social incompetence and financial mismanagement.
To his credit, Bill has doggedly pushed to achieve the products he offered. He has delivered on a quality product, the basic Catan board. He is likely to deliver on the plastic RCH's and the Seafarer's boards. Despite managerial incompetence, he will probably deliver on the bamboo boxes.
It's looking like he, through no fault of his own, will not be able to deliver on the Catan bags and you can be sure Bill will never get crowd funding again so it is unlikely despite assertions he had financial backers willing to contribute when the second KS failed to reach goal (Bill artificially lowered the goal in a reboot to force a successful campaign despite knowing it was under funded on original estimates) he will have the funds to produce the bag, ever.
His slap in the face to his pledgers (who are unsecured investors) is to offer a near meaningless online store credit instead of a refund.
There has been no overt intent to steal money, simply failure to acknowledge errors of judgement, multiple levels of incompetence and a stunningly profound sense of self bordering on entitlement.
This life lesson has been well taught by Bill.
He has, however, failed miserably to take the opportunity of learning from his lessons.
Bill gets away with this because none of us are secured creditors. You are right, in the real business world he would have been destroyed by now.
Wow, yet another update with excuses...if I could add photos to the comment you would see my "shocked" face....
Did anyone want to defend this one????
How about ZERO mentioning of the RCH's that are supposedly done - or where are the Seafarer pieces... Oh, they're heading back to some "shop" - Every month it's like they are going back somewhere to be polished or textured or something, as if we forgot the LAST time he used that - it's like a kid saying his grandma died (for the 10th time) so he couldn't get his homework done...
Seriously - I have friends in both the plastics industry and the machining industry - not a single one buys ANY of this crap - they've said time and again, if it took them this long to get a mold ready for production they'd be out of business...
I, personally, recommend that everyone make a visit to the FTC and let them know what is happening here. This is no longer a delayed project (and I'm being generous with the idea it only recently changed status), this is someone who is eventually going to walk away, just like "The Doom that came to Atlantic City"
Money has been wasted and misappropriated - I can't believe he's offering "credit" instead of a refund on the bags to those poor saps who threw more money at him in the other campaign.... Credit for what??? More products that don't exist???? Is that like the credit/discount thing he tried offering us the FIRST time he realized he was in over his head????
Even Mayfair lost confidence in him....
A charlatan at best (again, being generous - even a charlatan knows what they are doing)
Still waiting for the RCH and I CAN'T BELIEVE the comments on the other campaign from people wanting to throw more money into this tarpit. They actually think they are going to get a bag? LOL
@bill - you realize KS shows the last time you logged in, right? You logged in today, you logged in a few days ago... And so on... Yet, no update, no comments... Nothing... How is it you feel this is OK?
And still.... Nothing.... Seeing how the FTC has now started looking at Kickstarter, over a project that brought in a 1/3 less money than this one (not counting the money from the poor saps not getting their stuff over on the rob Peter to pay Paul campaign)... I think I'd be doing more than skulking and lurking about... I just noticed, it says Bill last logged in on July 2.... But no backerkit... No update.... No response....
Neville, No problem. I actually opted a while ago for the other version of the seafarer board when given the choice because I wanted to get something out of this. RCH is an indication that it was a good choice (and other updates).
The 3D printer quality is more dependent on design then product from my experience with it. I have knocked out hundreds of keychains in a matter of a couple of weeks for pledge/fundraising events locally, and the quality has been pretty good. Maybe a little less sturdy if you are going to bend it, but overall it does a pretty good job. Should make a RCH with the printer and post a link.
I think this would be a lot less frustrating if we got more than one or two updates a month. I feel like if we have to sit and wait, the least they could do is give us regular (scheduled) updates. Let us know what's going on and stop leaving us in the dark. I'm sure I'm not the only one that is curious on why a survey takes this long to prepare. So, what gives?
Jerierex, my apologies; I had not seen the comment from David. I had admittedly left my computer on this page for a bit before writing my last comment.
I think most (if not all) of us are aware that this project has taken much longer than anticipated. I know that I am. It's been two years since the resource card holders were originally supposed to go out (the list date was June 2013), and I can't imagine that anyone is happy with the delay. (That includes the project creator.) I certainly wouldn't call myself happy that it has taken the project so long to get where it is at this point, but I remain optimistic for the future, and will continue to look forward.
About 3D printing: I've seen a few 3D printed objects in person. Based on the photos we've seen, I fully expect the quality of the RCH we receive to be much greater than a 3D printed version. (Whether it's worth the wait is naturally subject to opinion.)
Neville, sorry but as mentioned with the message below you. 2 years and 7 months its completely ridiculous for RCH that any 3d printer could make. I honestly would have never kickstarted this if I knew all this was coming afterwards.
I certainly understand where you're coming from. Indeed, it is rough when twists and turns happen. However, I personally would rather receive these updates and learning that plans have changed than getting nothing at all, and I fully expect there to be snags in the process.
Concerning BackerKit, if my contact disappears and no one else from the company is jumping in immediately, that's not a great sign. If they can't support everything I'm trying to do in combining fulfillment for two KickStarters in a way that makes things easy for backers of one (or both) project(s), then it makes sense for me to find someone who can. Yes, it may take longer in the short run, but it is hopefully faster and more painless in the long run. In the end, this was Bill's decision, though, and he has been clear about that.
And yes, there was a definite purchase order problem, but Bill copped to that. While there have been delays, Bill has owned up to them. Personally, I choose to look forward optimistically.
Oct 5 2012 - Nov 19 2012 (45 days)
It has now been 2 years, 7 months since this project was funded.
@neville - that's what I'm talking about... EVERY update is followed a week or two (or four) later by a 'change of plans' update... On June 6th he says "After getting in touch with a primary contact, we got our BackerKit setup that very same day, so that will be going out soon." So, it was ready to go.... And then on the 12th he's suddenly switching companies....
May 3rd he tells us the Seafarer mold is going through it's finishing stages, it'll take THREE weeks... But just over FOUR weeks later he gives an update, how he doesn't know how it happened but turns out they haven't even started..... And now, nearly a month later... Nothing
Every delay is someone else's fault.... There's a pattern here... It's gotten old and tiresome....
I don't know where you read about a "backerkit that is allegedly ready to go." My understanding from the most recent update is that Bill has decided to use a different company's software for the surveys. Further, those surveys are not yet ready, as Bill is still working with them.
I do hope that Bill's next update includes some details on when he expects to send out the surveys. And I'll bet we're in for some good news about the seafarers board production, too!
I stop by here, every few weeks, thinking there will be some sort of update via the comment section... I know, how foolish of me.... But I find it funny, seeing posts that defend the negligence of this campaign... Saying they're sure it be a matter of days, because we were told that (again and again)... Here we are... Still no backerkit that is allegedly ready to go... Or RCH's that are supposedly already done... Two years and counting...
@ Neville Fogarty - thank you for the recap. That's what I needed to hear. Obviously I had missed that update.