by Tactical Haptics
Reactive Grip™ touch feedback blows rumble away! It provides enhanced interaction and immersion for virtual reality and video games.
This project's funding goal was not reached on December 11, 2013.
Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
Love the new design, can't wait to see what's next at GDC !
Thanks Tactical Haptics for letting me try the Reactive Grip at CES.
Here's the video of my demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch…
It was so good I didn't want to let go of the controllers! While it would be great if it could somehow be made more affordable, I would hate to see any compromise in quality, as I feel it's worth any price you have to put on it as it is right now. My senses and abilities are worth a lot to me. If I lost my sight, hearing, or mobility I know I would pay anything to get them back. As we begin to spend more and more time in VR I think the value of devices like the Reactive Grip will become very apparent.
Good luck, and keep going!
So I have been doing some research regarding flight joysticks (in preparation for Star Citizen), and I was shocked to find very few options for force feedback. The majority of products were discontinued years ago, and the few I came across that are still being produced today cost a hefty sum. In light of this, the possibility that the Reactive Grip controllers could be used for both VR 6DOF applications and as joysticks doubles their utility. The price per unit is still (personally) a bit too steep, especially if I'd need to purchase two "joystick bases" to unlock half of the product's utility (on top of the cost of a STEM base + 2 STEM packs), but the simplicity of having only two controllers, capable of multiple configurations, is highly alluring.
I wish you guys luck in whatever direction you take the technology! :D
Hey, I feel really bummed that you didn't meet your funding goal, as I feel this will be an essential piece of the early VR puzzle. I think people have some trouble both realizing how awkward motion control in such immersive experiences without any proper feedback will be, and understanding how and why your technology will fill that void.
I have another haptic product, the Novint Falcon, which is a remarkable piece of technology, and it added a lot to the games that supported it, such as Half-Life 2, making me choose weapons based on their recoil as much as other things. Though your product doesn't have the ability to maintain a consistent directional force, it does have torque and a vastly wider range of motion, which I feel will be much more beneficial for a VR environment.
When I think about how to accomplish things like headmounted displays and high-fidelity haptic feedback I tend to imagine pie-in-the-sky complex and expensive solutions. And so, things like the Oculus Rift and your Reactive Grip, which mantle seemingly unsurpassable obstacles through ingenuity and a bit of compromise, getting 80% of the way there with 20% of the technology, are especially impressive to me.
I thoroughly believe in this product, and I will definitely go for a pair of controllers again on your next attempt.
Now the Kickstarter is over the likely worst case scenario is that Reactive Grip arrives a little later than the Rift, STEM and Omni. While this was a good opportunity to have early integration in the first wave of titles, it may still get the necessary investment from somewhere. Maybe we'll see the tech licensed and used in premium versions of controllers like STEM? A larger company like Razer or Sixense that has more resources could put this out to developers initially, and once there's enough supporting content they could roll it out at a more affordable price tag for consumers. The demand will only increase once more people try VR for themselves and find that the absence of believable haptic feedback is the weak link needing to be fixed.
Obviously the kit was aimed at developers. They were the target. Do consumers spend $299 on Beta hardware that has no games or applications commercially available, yet? No. I completely understand that because of the timing, many enthusiasts & indies had to pass because they just purchased the STEM system. I think Tactical Haptics will be able to have a hugely successful Kickstarter campaign, when they are ready to target consumers with a polished, wireless, game-supported, competitively priced product. I am a believer, and I'll be the 1st one in line to buy 2 controllers, when the time comes.
I think it's more important to remember that these days the line between developer and consumer is blurred. It's fine to say that the kit is aimed at developers, but we have to remember that the vast majority of developers are indies working out of their homes or apartments, usually alone, with no budget other than an income from their standard Mon-Fri 9-5 job. They're enthusiasts, experimenters and tinkerers, one of whom will undoubtedly build the "next big thing". But when your development budget consists of what little disposable income you have, sitting somewhere between saving for vacation and braces for the kids, development hardware still needs to be at consumer level pricing to garner support. Simply leaving it at "the kit is aimed at developers" is a bit like saying telescopes are pointed to space. Yeah.. they are... but you have to consider the target.
People should remember, this campaign was aimed towards developers, not consumers. Almost $90,000 and hundreds of DEV backers, shows there is interest in this tech. Sixense should incorporate this into their STEM controller.
The product needs to be relaunched in the near future:
WIRELESS (would be stupid to even think of creating this product without this - was also one of the major turn offs for this ks).
A More REALISTIC PRICE!
I mean come on, compare this with others out there. The remotes are exactly the same as the STEM ones but with touch feedback added. Yet, they price way higher. Just does not add up!!!
These two areas are where you fell over in this campaign. Hopefully you can rethink on the strategy and re-release. Maybe even strike off a deal with Sixsense and be made into one product, cause at the moment, they are both very similar even though they each have there own unique feature - apart from this the controllers are exactly the same. and for us its like having to buy the same product twice.
Added on a t-shirt to my pledge. Hoping for an early Christmas miracle but if it doesn't happen now it will someday. This is too good an idea for it to never materialize - someone will see the potential and invest. Good luck TH!
I would suggest if you relaunch your product in the future on KS:
1) Wireless -> Must have
2) Consumer ready model instead of dev kit
The wires hanging off of these things just make them so ugly. My VR rig already has so many tethers, i just don't want to get anything that needs another one. Even if you made the version with the hip pack, that is not really wireless. Would be happy to back for more money if the product had come along farther. Good luck keeping up the work!
Here's hoping to a last minute angel. We've contributed to a pair of device.
We're interested in incorporating your tech into our device being launched at CES 2014. Please send us an e-mail so we can chat further. Sorry for the lackluster condition of our website, it is currently getting an overhaul for CES.
@ Marcus Menghini
Yes, you can follow us on Facebook (for some reason, our Facebook link on our kickstarter page has never worked).
And you can subscribe to our mailing list (see signup in the lower right of our website):
Or you can register as a user on our website:
We'll periodically do posts on our website as we have in information to share.
We'll also send updates periodically to our backers via kickstarter (probably less often through kickstarter since we don't want to bother people).
A bit of a shame, I was looking forwards to these controllers. Is there anywhere we can sign up for a mailing list or something so we can get more information about later iterations and such?
Thanks for trying!
@ Toru Nippa
Thanks for your support and the many others who have come in since the Mashable story on our technology and Oculus VR posted again about our kickstarter.
I'll point out that our controllers are already compatible with the Sixense STEM System.
Our team has been thinking about all the things you mention below.
Cost, wireless, and content are the big 3 we'll be working on. And we agree that people won't REALLY think they need our haptic controllers until they enter their fully immersive VR worlds without them. By then hopefully we'll have gotten our controllers out in front of a lot more VR fans between VR meetups, GDC and other gaming conferences.
Its really unfortunate that this isn't going to be funded. I think there's a lot of people like me who just spent $500 on the Omni, $300 on the Stem, and $300 on the Oculus rift + a gaming desktop and a PS4 and our gaming budget is quite low at the moment. If this was introduced WITH the stem and I could upgrade the standard controllers to this for $200-$300 extra I might have jumped on it but for $400 I don't see enough of a reason to NEED this device especially since it's difficult to "see" how Reactive Grip enhances the gaming experience w/o actually using it. I think this is the next NEXT step into VR gaming and after people get their hands on the Omni+Oculus+Stem, people will start to want to enhance the experience and that's where Reactive Grip comes in. The three things i want to see is 1) price cut to ~$300, 2) Wireless since whipping the cord around while having your eyes covered sounds dangerous, and 3) an actual existing game that you can swing swords and spin flails around with to make you CRAVE for the Reactive Grip. Hope I see you guys again when my wallet fills up again
Thanks for the support. We're trying to make one last run at it here in the last week...
I am so annoyed, this is probably not going to get funded. I want it so much. It looks so awesome.
Yes, Markus and Nathan should be set up to give demos at I/ITSEC this afternoon. They will be in booth 425 when the exhibit hall opens (at 2pm I believe ).
I can't wait to see you guys at IITSEC.
Are you guys all setup to demo today?
Probably won't get funded, and theres probably several reasons as to why!!!
One of those is that it wasn't wireless when it first launched, which probably turned a lot of people away. Secondly, even when it was wireless it was as an optional Stretch which was set quite high! Thirdly, even when the stretch goal was supposedly wireless it still lacked being wireless in the true sense, as it had a battery pack attachment.
In my view the best thing would be to take the design of the product and redo it. The battery pack needs to be added into the controllers and they need to be completely wireless, like the stem controllers otherwise it just seems like we are taking two steps forward with the Stem and one step backwards with the Reactive Grip. My idea would be to do this and then relaunch next year sometime and you will definitely get a success.
Although $83,000 is short of the goal, it's still a damm decent showing. It would seem that you have over 300 backers actually buying the hardware. Assuming most of those are developers, you could have a pretty decent stack of VR games/experiences in the pipeline. If you run another KICKSTARTER in maybe 6 months or so, geared towards consumers instead of DEVS, I could imagine the goal exceeding 7 figures, instead of 5 or 6. All it would take is 1 kick-ass game/app/experience to be bundled with the the controller, and I think gamers would unite. It's a bit of a tough sell, since there is really no implementation in any games, yet. Yes, I do understand this is the Dev-Kit, and you have to do THIS, before you can do THAT. I'm hoping you guys will find a way to get the GRIP to those Devs who are interested, and get a killer implementation or 2, so you can target consumers, on your next KS campaing. Alternatively, It's a no-brainier, that GRIP tech, would enhance the STEM controller, and like i said before, if that happens, TAKE MY MONEY!
@ Jeremy Ford
We're doing our best, but we'll definitely need the help of our backers and the VR/Maker/Gaming communities to hit our target.
Markus and Nathan will be at the I/ITSEC defense simulation and training show this week giving demos and we should have a last story from Mashable come out this week. Hopefully that story will share our plans to license our technology and work with established gaming companies for the consumer version of Reactive Grip (we've already talked to Sixense about this). We're hoping there will be enough support from VR gamers to make this an attractive decision for our potential partners/licensees.
We'll definitely be pushing hard to get the word out.
I am worried this kickstarter won't get funded. Ahh
Yes, some people key in on that, but most don't care since its so much better than rumble. Nonetheless, we will continue to make improvements to reduce the actuator noise.
Good vid. It's funny how people seem to pick up on the sound these devices make. It was the same with the Omni. I don't think it's an issue though. Once you're immersed inside a game, you won't notice it. Most things make some kind of noise IRL or virtually, like my keyboard as I'm typing this! Does it bother me? Nope :)
See the great story on our Reactive Grip technology that appeared on the BBC
Is there going to be a specific time for when the new tiers are going to be added?
We weren't planning on attending the Game Connection conference in Paris, but we'll look into this.
@ Tactical Haptics :
You go come there next month ?
Hey! Thx for the responses.
"We hope that in the future Reactive Grip will be integrated directly into the Sixense STEM controller"
Bingo. The form factor for the STEM CONTROLLER is sexy as hell. I already love it. What would make it better? REACTIVE GRIP included in the STEM CONTROLLER. Sold. Take my money.
"[...] it will be the SAME as the Sixense STEM system"
Very very cool.
Bravo for that.
We have talked with Sixense about bundling a Tactical Haptics Branded Tracking system with our controllers (it will work identically to and be completly compatible with the Sixense STEM tracking system). So, if you are contemplating just buying the Sixense STEM controllers from their online store this week, we'd suggest waiting at least a week.
We will make a decision and make a post if we can bundle their tracking technology with our controller next week most likely. (So no need for concern that you "missed out on the Sixense STEM tracker kickstarter and now you can't use STEM tracking with your Reactive Grip dev kit).
@OlivierJT & @CURTROCK 8
Since you are developing for STEM, the tracking will be identical with the Reactive Grip Dev Kits and should not be a concern at all. In fact, if you place your (removable) STEM module from your STEM controller (or from your STEM Pack) in the Reactive Grip Dev Kit it will act the same as the STEM controller, but can also provide Reactive Grip feedback.
So the tracking with our device (if you use the STEM system as the tracker) won't be worse, it will be the SAME as the Sixense STEM system.
Also, if you want you can use one STEM controller and one Reactive Grip controller together -- they work in harmony (this would be similar to the two different controllers you hold when interacting with the Wii).
We discussed with Sixense your idea in advance of their kickstarter and they were already committed to their current path.
We hope that in the future Reactive Grip will be integrated directly into the Sixense STEM controller, but those that want that will likely need to wait till at least 2015.
For me, as a token backer, the huge setback is certainly the price. I'd prefer wireless... but wired is more than acceptable. To work with the omni is as simple as hanging the wires overhead... which I already do with the rift and can turn 360 degrees in the same direction almost indefinitely.
Another major problem is that you are aiming exclusively at devs. The Omni clearly succeeded so well because it works out of the box with almost any game. The Rift came with promises of Doom 3 and hype from leading developer companies. It might have been better to wait until you'd got more large developers willing to vouch and a more consumer friendly model which could attract the consumer market... which in turn attracts more devs as consumers = potential profit. And hopefully aiming to ship more units for cost reduction.
A great idea I think would be to agree a deal with Sixsense in which a reward tier could replace the two STEM controllers in the 5 tracker deal with Tactical Haptics ones... however the different dev cycle lengths would probably mess that up.
I own an Oculus Rift, and Razor Hydras. I will be purchasing the Stem controller 4 shure. I will also get the MAKE VR system, when Sixense launches the Kickstarter. I like and appreciate what has been done with the Reactive Grip, and I want to experience the benefits of the haptic feedback. Tactical Haptics is in a difficult position. Basically, we all have or will be purchasing the Stem Controller, already. It's kind of a tough sell, to get me to buy "another" controller. Especially if it's not wireless. Sorry, no. I understand that this is basically a "Dev-Kit", so it makes sense for devs. I hope there are enough devs to back this so the goal can be reached. To be completely honest, what I want, as a VR enthusiast and a consumer, is the beautiful new Stem Controller w/ Reactive Grip included in THAT controller. It makes no sense to me, to have or purchase 2 different controllers, and I'll have to choose the Stem. I hope there is some way the Tactical Haptics can work together with Sixense on this, because the 2 technologies are extremely complimentary, and the synergy is there, 4 shure. Thx, and good luck :)
As a STEM backer :
The Reactive Grip need to feel like an upgrade to the STEM controller not wire the thing down.
"exact capable tracking technology can be offered then"
Tactical Haptics are not sixense, I don't see how they could match their R&D...
On a developer pov, I will dev for STEM, but if adding RGrip mean also integrating a whole other tracking/positional solution to take care of, that's not going to happen on my side.No thank you.
On a consumer pov, yes it's great as a standalone product but it will never be as good as Sixense tech and savoir faire.
Modular design (wireless or not, powered or not) is not a bad idea either.
YES Sir - hybrid design is very OK for me !!
Here's what I think, I know my friends share the same views:
"The reactive grip and even the dev kits should be mandatory wireless and no stretch goals should be considered for this. Strict wireless will make a big difference on the viability of this product. As much as full wireless support would be best, a wired battery pack for the dev kit is still a better approach to cost control, weight savings, additional battery life and ability to use our own batteries. Although at the very least an untethered system is a must. I already backed the STEM system, so being able to put a STEM tracker in the Reactive Grip to minimize it's cost could be an option but it doesn't seem very practical going this route. If the exact capable tracking technology can be offered then an "out of box" solution would be best."
Share your opinion, do you agree?
Thanks for the suggestion.
We added to the survey.
Yeah, it is. Seems to be more about gauging how much extra people would pay for wireless data transmission and a battery pack. Be interested to know what other people said!
The questionnaire is missing an option (IMO):
- I would prefer wireless, but would still back the project
You are clearly in need of ambassadors : people who could show and demo your tech outside of the US.
I backed Stem, Omni, Oculus and Reactive Grip (Pro duo EarlyBird) and I am not so sure about backing you up, even me ! I am the full VR dev guy in France !
I haven't tried it, nor saw it, just a few videos. But I believe... ^_^
So I can imagine other being pledge resistant !
Send some to France, to London, Germany, to Tokyo, etc... !
You should have come to some shows in Europe (for example) to demo it.
You still can make it if you hurry with ambassadors I believe...
You know Oculus VR, people knew what it is and kinda what to expect : Oculus was better than expectations.
Reactive Grip is another approach, as you said in one of your interview : "you had to put it in the hand of the people and beg them to try it out. Then they loved it."
I really don't know what to expect... hope is not enough... (it kinda is for me... but I am a VR.Nuts™)
@Kirk, yep your bang on correct!
Apart from the other reason why this ks is not attracting in hordes of people is because its very pricey! I mean $350 for two controllers!! Don't forget a lot of us already payed for the STEM system just about a month ago, and we payed about $300 for the whole kit which was a 5 point tracking system with a wireless base! In comparison this is just the same price for two controllers with haptic feedback.
Im all for this as i would love to experience it, but the average person might not see the benefits of this as clearly compared to something like the stem.
My biggest issue isn't a missing feature, or even the price. It's the nearly year long wait, unless you can pony up $1400.
STEM succeeded because they already had established technology (razor... albeit plagued, it did mostly function, and when coupled with a promise to fix those issues, it was enough).
Oculus had TONs of YouTube videos before they started shipping to the masses. With that tech, yes you had to try it to fully appreciate it, but you could pretty much guess based on peoples reactions that it was cool stuff.
You guys do have some great videos, and in particular everything with Cymatic Bruce is amazing. You need more videos like that, where people can see what this tech can do for their experience. In particular, I would create a mod of Tuscany that had cool objects to interact with, so that people can see it all working with an off the shelf game engine.
Personally, I was sold immediately. Like most of the current backers, I have been waiting for this KickStarter. When looking at posts regarding the Reactive Grip, if you count the "Thumbs Up" on forums and redit, compare posters names and who "Liked" what on facebook, you'll see all those same people already as backers. Yes, there are new ones, but in effect, the Choir is already here.
To meet or exceed your goal, you need to pretty much double the number of backers. If even 10% of Cymatic Bruce's YouTube subscribers backed it, you'd be set.
Partnering with CastAR, adding webcam tracking, etc., it might make your existing backers happier, but to bring in new blood, I'd instead concentrate on partnering with content creators and people that have well subscribed YouTube channels.
To succeed, people need to know you exist, and they need to "SEE" how your tech helps them.
The easiest way for that to happen is to see people they already identify with using your product in ways they understand and are familiar with.
A second suggestion, to instantly boost the number of backers, is to send off one of your prototypes to Japan. After seeing some of the resulting videos, you might not want the controller back, but you'll have a kazillion orders with almost no effort on your part. NETKICK and NAO_U both come to mind.
As a non-Dev but enthusiastic VR consumer who insists on only gaming with his Hydra and Rift (Shyrim, various FPS, etc) and has both an Omni and Stem system on order... please do what you can to make either the Reactive Grip controllers have an internal rechargable battery or at least tethered to an exterior battery pack we can strap to ourselves or Omni (rotating tray). Please assume everyone backing your campaign probably has a STEM on order or will get one and don't waste your time with "inertial sensor chips", "basic webcam tracking support", etc. Thanks :)
Honestly we were hoping to appeal to a middle ground. Clearly our kickstarter is focused on developers and researchers, but we were also hoping that some enthusiasts would also back us, as they would get a "first look" at our tech and be able to experience reactive grip long before anyone could buy the consumer version (which wouldn't likely be available until 2015). Buying a development kit would allow enthusiasts to try out all the demos that get created (similar in spirit to the Rift demos that are out currently). That said, we've been thinking over the comments that we've seen and have been doing some work internally to see if its feasible to offer features that would make our controller more broadly appealing.
That is great and I think most people can understand that, but there needs to be $100k more from strictly developers. By marketing this campaign towards developers so heavily and stating that this will be "lesser" than the commercial version, consumers will shy away and save their hard earned money for the "real" version. Again, this works fine if you have $175k from developers at hand otherwise you need to reach larger group.