by William McDonald
Are you ready for an early 90's style Golden Axe inspired comedy brawler with a serious pair of unicorns balls!
Funding for this project was canceled by the project creator on September 18, 2013.
Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
Hi guys, there is other amazing Kickstarter going on right now, it's an unique space game.
For instance you will be able to build/customize you own spaceships for parts of other spaceships you destroy during the game. How cool is that!
This Kickstarter is a real bargain. You get:
- A cross-platform game. Yes, you don't have to pick your version, you can have all 3 (PC, MAC and Linux). It's true in some Kickstarters you must choose only 1!
- A high quality original soundtrack. This could be from a movie and hopeful some day it will.
- For Linux users this is the chance to have a AAA game that we can play.
- If you are willing to commit yourself in this journey, you will have the option to be entitled to "Expansion Packs and Future Content FREE FOREVER". It's not explicit in this kickstarter, but it includes the current 2 books of the Skyjacker saga, although they still need to be translated to English in the future.
Aren't you a little bit curious? Take a look at the current Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digitilus/skyjacker-space-combat-sim), I assure you that you will not be disappointed.
Come and embrace the full Skyjacker experience with us!
Thanks. Yes, we are still developing the game but not on OUYA. Dungeons will definitely be available for PC, Mac, and Linux. We hope you enjoy the game when it comes out. Thanks for your interest.
-Danielle for SFG
I'm sorry to hear about the cancelation as this sounded like a good game! Is it true that you will still develop the game, just not for the Ouya?
@ Shawn if we had $200,000 to make a game we wouldn't bother either, you are not in our shoes and obviously not in our income bracket. We canceled the Kickstarter ourselves so there is nothing karmic about it. You question our ethics but how ethical is it to come to a failed project page and kick someone while they are down? You come on here to rub our faces in our mistakes yet your are trying to present yourself as a better person and give us lessons on decency. Every undesirable outcome that could happen did so if you are the sort of person that likes to revel in others' difficulties then you have your chance but it makes you look less than stellar. We had our "comeuppance" have the decency to leave it at that and walk away. PS saying "good luck with everything" then following it with two more gibes does not make it better or make you seem nicer.
Again Danielle not William
If we let the Kickstarter continue between taxes, swag and fees we would have lost over $11,000. See update #7 on this KS project page. 54000 - 11000 = 35000 not enough to pull off all 3 episodes. However, if we just pulled my Dad's money out and used it for production, $49950, which we are doing, it is just enough to finish the entire trilogy bare bones style or to do the first two episodes fully expanded. We plan on doing the second option. The $10,000 goal was for the bare bones version of the first episode of Dungeons. If we had let the Kickstarter close naturally, without match funds, we'd have been obligated to deliver on 3 episodes using the $35000. $35,000 is not nearly enough to pay for all the art assets we need for three games. Never have we stated that we are going to stop production in fact we have stated quite the opposite. We have consistently stated that we were planning on paying my father back in profits not from OUYA and definitely not from Kickstarter.
I feel for you guys and do not believe you had bad intent, but the fact you cancelled after ouya pulled out does say something. You claimed to be able to make a version here for 10k, due to your fathers very nice gesture you then had 5x that amount so should have been easily able to make the game. It isn't like you were doing a 50k kickstarter with OUYA FTF and saying it would cost you 100k to make it, in which case its understandable to cancel if OUYA pulls out. By pulling out it would certainly appear to be more a loan from your father rather than his true support, in which case I don't feel its with the right intentions.
Abiding by the strict letter of the competition does not free you from having any sort of personal ethics.
@William McDonald, to answer your questions.
1. No I wouldn't do that. I am making a game right now, and I personally have the capital to pump over $200,000 into a scam like this and walk away with Ouya's money. I wouldn't do that, because it would clearly be unethical and wrong.
2. Who deserves the money? Well anyone who has broad support of backers and can pass the $50k threshold, pretty simple, you know, a legitimate kickstarter, with actual fans who want to see the game made.
As for your dad "making a sacrifice", it's seems pretty clear that this is a scam where you will simply return his money to him. So a temporary loan, to be repaid in full, is not a sacrifice.
Anyways, good luck with everything. The cancellation is karmic imo, but I do still wish you guys the best of luck.
I am happy to answer that and no disrespect detected. We contacted OUYA and are waiting for a response. Our position is that we fall within the stated rules of FreetheGames and Kickstarter. That is our position and we can only hope that they share it. We thought hard about financing the Kickstarter this way and that was a major concern especially since we were blatant and honest about it. Thank you for your inquiry and kind words.
Danielle for SuckerFree Games
I have a question for William and the team.
Have you verified with the OUYA folks that its ok for your kickstarter to receive significant funding from family at all?
I mean no disrespect here by asking, but if I had my life savings on the line I'd want to be really sure that it wouldnt cause any problems with the project.
Also thanks for being honest and open about your funding!
@Shawn Blais Skinner
I'm sorry you feel that way. $10,000 was the bare minimum funding we needed to get the trimmed down version of Dungeons done in time for PAX 2014. All of our stretch goals still apply. As we wrote in our Kickstarter's front page, if we could get to $50,000 we would be able to make the expanded version of the entire trilogy. Over our five year development period we had to cut many desirable features due to budget constraints. This "excess" of money will be used on artwork to support those features along with producing Episodes 2 and 3 thereby finishing our trilogy in one swoop. This will keep our artists employed and guarantee a consistent ascetic. The money is not going into our pockets, it's going into the game, promotional efforts and PAX. I'd also like to remind you that we don't get $37500 of the match funds until after our first episode of the game is complete.
This wasn't our plan from the start, William's father proposed it with eight days remaining in our campaign. If you want more information on this subject please refer to update #6 on this page. You do not want justifications so we won't try but I do have three questions for you: Are you honestly saying if someone offered you the money to qualify for match funds and make your game exactly the way you wanted to from the start, after five years of struggling for completion, you would say no? Every year seeing your uniqueness fading with every new release, wouldn't you want to finish your game as soon as possible, while it still had something new to offer to the gaming public? Would you choose to keep struggling, paying for a handful of piecemeal sprites at a time, always at risk of losing your artist to a larger project that can hire them full time and being forced, to either find someone who can match the pervious style perfectly (good luck) or to start over, again?
By your own logic who deserves this money? There are plenty of other Kickstarters out there trying for the funds and sitting at very low numbers, they are not qualifying for it, so how are we stealing it from them? Is it better if no one gets the money and OUYA doesn't get any new games? it's not a competition, it's a fund. If it was a competition it might have been more fair, but even if the money was handed out based on votes it still would have been a popularity contest unfair to the small homebrew studios. Instead it is first come first serve. This is not judged on merit it is judged on raising the money and doing it within the rules of both OUYA and Kickstarter, which we have done.
You are definitely entitled to your opinion but before you bad mouth people on their page please take the time to research what you are talking about. Or at the very least read our Kickstarter page before ranting. Instead of coming on here and calling us names I wish you could have articulated why you are mad at us and maybe provided some insight into what exactly we have done wrong like Mitch did below. He actually gave us something to think about, which provided a new focus for us to examine the impact of our actions. I sincerely hope you are never put in our position. Thanks for the dollar and your time. :)
@Shawn: $50,000 is for the Ouya pledge-match
I backed for $1 just to say that this is a complete greaseball move, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Not only did you pump the fund, but you pumped it $40,000 over your required goal. I could maybe see taking $10k to help cover expenses while you finish your game, but 50 THOUSAND!? That's just complete greed.
You're taking $50k off the table, for a game that essentially no-one wanted to see made.
Justify it any way you like, but it's a complete grease-ball move, and not in the spirit of the competition.
Thanks for sharing in our excitement Alessandro and thanks for the encouragement. Both William and I can feel you on that James, thanks. I suspect between my siblings and I, we bought at least a sports car for some Sega exec with our Golden Axe quarters. ;P Danielle
Yeah, five bucks is just a fraction of how much I probably spent on the original Golden Axe, one quarter at a time :)
Thank you, it's much appreciated :D
Ill kick in 5 bucks. Looks like you guys have already named a toon after me.
@ Thanks Mitch, we totally understand and acknowledge your concerns. No, we did not contact OUYA but we observed how they responded to the GridIron controversy and concluded that friends and family were an acceptable means of fulfilling the majority of funds. The controversy there as we saw it was the fact that their game was allegedly already done before entering FreetheGames and that the funds would not be used for development. Your position that our funding sources will effect the metrics is valid and not taken lightly. Our decision was a hard one. We are trying our best to be honest and forthright. We are trying to make the most polished, fun and marketable game possible. We hope our game helps OUYA and the OUYA community as a whole. We appreciate both your candor and consideration.
-William and Danielle for SFG
Sorry William, I had not seen that update as it was backer only. Its good you asked KS but its OUYA who is going to have to match those dollars so the question is did they support friend and family backers making up (and just so far it sounds like more checks still to drop) atleast 94% of your funds? You are being upfront about the money and that's great, but when ouya is largely using the 50k minimum to gauge the public's interest in the game, F&F throws that metric right out the window.
I wish you the best without a doubt you are a legitimate developer making the game for the right reasons. One has to wonder what ouya will end up with once its spent its million dollars however most of that money goes to projects with F&F backing them more than anything else.
Once you back you can see hidden update #6, they are not high end backers but rather a family member donating 5 checks to ensure the project gets made (with the funds given out to various friends).
Its good William fairly openly posts this, but unfortunately I am not sure its still in the spirit of the FTGF. 126 people find the game worth backing, great, unfortunately I am not sure those are the sort of numbers OUYA is hoping to draw to the console. Its a great story about the family member donating the funds for the game but wouldn't one also feel the unburning desire to pay said family member back if they made such a sacrifice? While its a gray area if one doesn't it almost instantly becomes fraud if one does. In addition at what point does it stop? What if instead your brother donates $150k to support your project now taking $150k from OUYA also are we still on the right side of the line? What if your brother has 5% stake in the company?
I love indie games and I think its hard to blame the project owners completely, certainly the OUYA FTGF working is a bit vague and who knows maybe they are perfectly fine with this (although they probably should change the FTGF if that is the case). KS fees would generally stop self backing (although I think a part of KS is the fact other backers know its only going to become something if a lot of other people also consider it legitimate somewhat important).
I think though if a project gets the majority of its funding from friends/family with the FTGF we are defiantly getting into a very gray area.
Please look at our Update section. There is nothing magical about this. We even released this information to JoyStq, SegaNerds and other news sites. We even asked Kickstarter, before the plan was executed, were told that it did not violate any rules and that they wished us luck.
WOW congrats guys on $40,101 of your $42694 so far (94%) from a maximum of 16 of your backers in a 2 day period. Sad the other 110 backers had not donated $2506 on average each (only $23 instead) or think of what an amazing game you can make. I wonder if you will reach 50k for the ouya double the funds, just think only 3 more magical high end average backers and you are there!
The game looks awesome. Love the Golden Axe series and seeing Dungeons with all it's glorious, gorgeous 16bit sprites and animations makes me pee my pants in an instant! :D
Keep up the good work and bring us the best possible Dungeons trilogy, especially on OUYA!
Also Kudos to Williams father, that's very generous and adorable of him!
Thanks for all the positive comments we really appreciate them. We are trying to increase our media exposure. In fact we have been getting some great interviews and have done a few press releases lately. Thomas and Antonio thanks for your suggestions we appreciate any constructive input. We will take your suggestions into consideration when dealing with press for sure. We have been trying to infuse more the human aspects of our development story into our press so this really reaffirms that approach.
Thank you again!
I agree with Thomas Bonafede. There are 2 gotchas in this campaign:
1- New Kickstarter for the same thing
2- Technology/project risk - Migrate from C# XNA to Mono
You should give visibility of both of them to the press, in order to be interesting and reassuring.
[Interesting] - The why the 1st Kickstarter failed, has you already have some information on this Kickstarter. Give more details if you can.
[Reassuring] - Be 100% transparent how you are going to port the game and give proof that it can really be done with just 10k. For instance if you are going to use http://www.monogame.net/ for porting XNA, give FEZ (http://www.monogame.net/showcase/fez) and an example that it can be done.
Basically if the Golden Axe fans knew they would be able to play their favorite game in HD a kind of a remake, I'm sure they would pledge for this.
Looks awesome. I like you.
Hey there you guys.
Reading about your project story, seeing some of the coment here, and considering there's only 17 days to go (and that you're barely 25% funded): you should get some media coverage about the whole thing.
I mean, not about the project itself, but about the very fact that you had to go through a second kickstarter fundraisig. I've read many articles on kotaku and the like about some waporware projects, and the questions raised by them about crowd funding. Your story, if not your great looking project, could interest some web journalists and give you some much needed spotlight.
Best luck to you guys!
I understand the tools, the costs, and the need for this final kickstarter campienge. It is to get the game finished, and put on to several platforms. The cost of the business licences alone is 1k, it will take a decent amount of time working out the bugs, and getting a working version on ouya, linux, and mac because old code will probably be have to be modified. At which point they are also dealing with a platform to platform anomoies issues, which again will take take to figure out and solve. Keep in mind I have taken several games I helped make and do the same with similar tools (not the same exactly) so I do understand each step, every small little detail and where they are at. It will take some time getting everything working and the game finalized. As they stated the orignal backers will still be getting the game. Its funny how TJ doesn't seem to realize $5k for a game is not much seeing how its a team of people making the game, meaning any actual profit is split between them, and even for a game they spent years making. The poverty line is a income less than 20 k a year, which is the estimated cost of living in the USA. 5k split up is not much even. 10k split up with the costs of tools to finish the project again is not much still for a project that has been in development for a long time.
What S.D said.
Backing for Linux & OUYA! Thank you for considering my platforms, I appreciate it :-)
1. it's just 5 $ .... lol
2. i'm used to waiting ... kickstarter trained me well :D
learn the power of the written contract
friend or no friend ( may read ex-friend )
I did not "artificially inflate the initial pledging" what ever that means I myself am a developer and i believe in this project.
thank you supporting linux
TJ Jackson I find it strange that you seem to have no idea what went on with this project and why. I didn't back them originally but was interested in the project and they have done a great job on keeping me informed on the circumstances, which are unfortunate. Having done projects like this before I know all about stuff hitting the fan. It is not uncommon for indie movie makers, game makers, and bands to have to ask for additional funding. How you don't realize this is beyond me. You didn't get what you want when you wanted it because of unforeseen events. Backers will get what was promised them.
@ TJ There is whole paragraph devoted to why we are back on Kickstarter on our projects front page, it is entitled "Why are we back?", we are very open about this being our second campaign. A simple look at our profile would also tell you that. This is the same project as our first Kickstarter campaign not a new one, which is why we employ the term "completion funds" and the same title. We HAVE delivered all of our backers' goods except for the completed game which is obviously not done and why we are here. Finally, we do have supporters among the gaming and development community and even among our original backers. One of these wonderful people has been awesome enough to contribute a very generous amount ($1000) to this fund, and yes he knows this is our second Kickstarter campaign and no he doesn't care, he just wants to help his friends to complete their project. TJ, you are slandering us by saying that we are artificially inflating the pledge. All of our original Kickstarter funds are accounted for and outlined in this very page because we are a transparent group. We alerted TJ and all of our other backers to this new campaign before we launched it, because we believe in transparency and we wanted to keep our former backers informed.
ATTENTION POTENTIAL BACKERS
SuckerFree has already run a Kickstarter project for this same exact product back in 2011, raised $5000+ for it, and has yet to deliver on it. At the time they said it was 6-9 months from completion and required $3000 to complete. Two years later, they're coming back to the well asking for an additional $10,000 in funding for another year of development. To reiterate this, there initial budget and schedule of $3K and 6-9 months has ballooned to $13K+ and 27 months.
As an initial backer of their original project, I urge you to think about whether or not you want to reward project creators like this who fail to deliver on their initial projects by giving them more money. Is this the type of behavior you want to encourage for future Kickstarter projects? And who is to say that they don't just come back in another year or two, say some unforeseen circumstances came up?
Also, I find it a bit dubious that one of the first three backers for this project pledged $1000, seems like they're artificially inflating their initial pledging