Funded! This project was successfully funded on April 20, 2012.

Update #43

The last part of The Banner Saga Let's play!

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Greetings backers, we have for you the final installment of The Banner Saga demo. In this one we throw a fight to show off a feature we haven't talked about much...

This playthrough represents a small fraction of the full game (it didn't even include travel!). Hopefully it gave you a good idea of the kind of decisions and gameplay you'll see at major locations along the way and just how varied your story can be.

Next time: we'll be back to more in-depth content updates as usual. Hope you've enjoyed the demo and see you next time!

Alex

Pierfrancesco likes this update.

Comments

    1. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Paul Smith on September 30, 2013

      Looks interesting, cant wait to get my hands on a build.

    2. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Andrew C on September 22, 2013

      Saving anywhere but battle is OK by me. Checkpoints are acceptable, as long as they are regular and you can keep as many saves as you want..

    3. Tigermops.small

      Creator Martin Kramer on September 19, 2013

      Regular old-school "whenever" saving, please.

    4. 969041_684163500578_810553074_n.small

      Creator Alex Wilgus on September 19, 2013

      @stoic I know. I've enjoyed reading the boards. Kind of like a social experiment.

      "We decided to change Rook's tunic from red to blue"

      "DON'T PATRONIZE ME!!!!!!"

    5. Tempest02.small

      Creator Wintersong-Tempest of the Obsidian Order on September 19, 2013

      I think that checkpoints and SaveOnExit are good enough. Not against save anywhere/anytime but I don't see that as mandatory.

      The problem if FTL was that it didn't have any saving option and they expected games to be really short. But some of us play slow and could just spend one hour to be killed in a single game. Shadowrun Returns has the similar issue where they expected people to play missions quick but... if I wanted to rush stuff, I'd play RTSs.

      Worrying about cheating is like worrying about piracy: pointless. If someone wants to do it, they will find a way (or use internet to find someone who can). You can cheat Ironman modes, checkpoints and anything else. Some do require more effort than others. So whatever saving method used in The Banner Saga shouldn't be based on "How do we prevent people from cheating?" but on "Which could be the most convenient methods for our players so they can enjoy* the game?". A bad saving system is as bas as a bad UI, bad AI, bad art, bad animations,...

      That said, I'd not mind extra saving option(s)/modes being added after release. But I'm one of those weirdos that had no issues with Stoic's work in Factions.

      * a much as you can enjoy losing people right and left, have everyone starve and all that stuff :p

    6. Missing_small

      Creator Mikhael Blackthorne on September 19, 2013

      I too hope you allow players to save anytime. Checkpoints are idiotic to purposefully put into a game. Don't worry about save scumming. If people want to save scum they will one way or the other.
      Some people like checkpoints and some people hate them. However I have never met anyone that liked checkpoints so much they hate being able to save whenever they want. Go for what will generate the fewest complaints. An Ironman mode is good for people with no self control but do not make that the default.

    7. Missing_small

      Creator Antony Sizekh on September 19, 2013

      Considering how much flak Shadowrun Returns got for it's lack of saves,we can safely assume it's better to at least implement save-state on exit,especially mid-combat. X-COM Ironman does that anti-savescumming pretty well. Instead of preventing manual save,you can just limit number of save slots to 1 too. About the additional delay ,well...As much as i want to play this sooner,I also want this game to have most rave reviews it can get on release,and secure finances for the future chapters.

    8. Web_stoic2_square.small

      Creator Stoic on September 18, 2013

      About saving: we're playtesting the save system and trying out permutations ourselves to figure out what's fun. Obviously saving mid-battle is something we can all agree is good, but we get to weigh things like saving in the middle of a battle versus adding another week to our release date all the time.

      Heh, it has been interesting, no matter what the topic is a fair number of people tell us they absolutely hate it and we're insulting them, even something as simple as whether we should do updates. Ultimately I'm pretty confident we'll come up with a good solution that will be invisible to most people.

    9. Missing_small

      Creator Bryon Daly on September 18, 2013

      @Stoic - If someone wants to savescum, let 'em savescum. First of all: it doesn't hurt anyone else, second: checkpoints are a pain in the a** for everyone and treats your customers like children, and third, people can still workaround it anyway as Nebojša points out below.

      Please, treat your customers like adults and let them save where they want.

    10. Missing_small

      Creator Derek Belanger on September 18, 2013

      I disagree. Restrictive saves can add to a game, it just needs to be balanced with convenience. For Shadowrun, all they need to do is add a 'Save & Exit'. You can stop playing at any time and not lose progress, but save-scumming is still quite inconvenient.

    11. Hatsworth_drinks_tea.small

      Creator Paul Andersen on September 18, 2013

      The problem of "save-scumming" seems more like a personal issue than an actual gameplay issue. One of the biggest problems people had with Shadowrun Returns was the lack of ability to manually save. It had nothing to do with "save-scumming," but rather convenience.

      To kill convenience for something a small portion of players may do, and that won't affect how other will play the game, seems oddly petty.

    12. Tempest02.small

      Creator Wintersong-Tempest of the Obsidian Order on September 18, 2013

      I'm quite slow playing tactical stuff so I can say that I don't fancy the times that I'll have to repeat a battle because I had to quit in the middle of it due to non gaming stuff. Aside from my paranoia about power outages.

    13. 969041_684163500578_810553074_n.small

      Creator Alex Wilgus on September 18, 2013

      @Nebojsa All games come with constraints. Part of the brilliance of this new wave of indie strategy games is that are attentive to limits. Limits craft and guide the experience, carefully doling out reinforcement based on merit and achievement instead of arbitrarily. Setting limits is just as important to devs as graphics or story since it crafts the experience. Not doing this sort of turns everything into an interactive digital sandbox. It's like a board game you decide to play without the rules, or a movie you fast forward to the end. Sure you can do it, but then you're wasting and cheapening the experience and no creator wants their creation handled that way.

    14. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Nebojša on September 18, 2013

      @Stoic "We won't have manual saving because be want to discourage save-scumming"
      Why? Why do you care how someone plays their game?
      I don't get it, what is with developers and forcing players to play their games how they want it, especially at the expense of everyone else.
      If someone wants to cheat, they will do it, you won't be able to stop them.
      I can already think of a way for someone to save scum, even with your system. Simply backup the save file after a checkpoint, make the decision, don't like the outcome? Quit and restore the backup, rinse and repeat.
      Devs please, just put the good old 'save & reload' system PC gamers like and be done with it.
      If not, will you at least provide 'save and quit' option? Or do we have to always replay parts of the game?

    15. Wallpaper-926956.small

      Creator Ken Chapman on September 18, 2013

      My only regret from pax is finding the stoic booth 30 min before closing on Monday. I really wanted to go through the demo more.
      The Viking voices instantly made me smile with how awesome they fit the setting.

    16. Missing_small

      Creator Asa on September 18, 2013

      Thanks for the detailed feedback, much appreciated. It would be nice to be able to quit Banner Saga mid-battle and resume where I left off when I come back, but I understand if that isn't possible. Glad to know you're saving my game after every major decision.

    17. Web_stoic2_square.small

      Creator Stoic on September 18, 2013

      @Asa: I see (I thought he was asking about enforcing ironman in some way). We'll definitely have a hardcore mode- just how hardcore it is we're still working out. The game *could* be played like a rogue-like where battles mean death, so we'll definitely see how easy that is to implement.

      We won't have manual saving because be want to discourage save-scumming, but our checkpoints are pretty much constant. We checkpoint every time something happens. If you lose power in the middle of a battle you'll have to redo that battle, but once the battle has ended you'll never have to replay it. The exception is that if you want to "reload", because you made some really disastrous decisions or don't want to accept the outcome of a battle we provide I believe 8 breaks in the story that you can go back to at any point. Our focus on save games has been more of a design decision than a technical one.

    18. Missing_small

      Creator Asa on September 18, 2013

      Great video. Nice to see what happens when you lose a battle. Also interesting to see how a smaller team can use turn order advantage to run circles around a more numerous enemy. In most turn-based strategy games having a small force than your enemy is a big disadvantage.

      I think Barry is referring to whether the game will have a Ironman mode, which would prevent the user from going back to a previous save. (I assume this would be optional, not required)

      Stoic has mentioned there will be save-points throughout the game. I'm hoping that you will also be able to include an option to let me suspend the game when I quit and start from where I left off when I restart the application (like FTL has). Another kickstarter project "Shadowrun Returns" had gotten a lot of flack for only allowing the user to save at checkpoints every 30-45 minutes, thus forcing users to go back to the last checkpoint every time they quit the game. Banner Saga sounds like a game I'd enjoy playing in small bursts, and being forced to replay a part I already played before is a pain.

    19. Web_stoic2_square.small

      Creator Stoic on September 18, 2013

      Enforced?

    20. 185px-guard-shrug-130311087493.small

      Creator Barry on September 18, 2013

      Niftyness.

      Will there be an enforced "Ironman" mode?

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