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Carmageddon: Reincarnation is a brand new points-for-pedestrians driving game from the indie dev team behind the smash hit PC original.
Carmageddon: Reincarnation is a brand new points-for-pedestrians driving game from the indie dev team behind the smash hit PC original.
Carmageddon: Reincarnation is a brand new points-for-pedestrians driving game from the indie dev team behind the smash hit PC original.
15,736 backers pledged $625,143 to help bring this project to life.

Batwick's Madical Radical at Rockingham!

So, after my first outing in the madical Radical at Snetterton, it was off to Cockingham… errr, I mean Rockingham… for second helpings. Rockingham is a US-style banked oval – but for this event, they were using about half the oval plus a complicated infield that looked like a carefully drawn diagram of somebody else’s intestines.

This means that to get from the mad oval section to the wibbly-wobbly infield, you have a hairpin bend. On a banked oval. Nice! But more of that later.

Spent the Sunday before the event prepping the car. This isn’t a car that you can just rock(ingham) up to the track and drive. It’s a proper racing car, and thus needs race-levels of preparation. Well it didn’t get them. It got me poking at it with a spanner for a few hours until it gave in.

The drive up on Friday was fraught. Shitty weather, and wank holiday traffic from hell. 155 miles turned into a six hour marathon, meaning that it was beer O’clock by the time we got there.

But before then we called into Silverstone to buy some proper 3-layer Nomex race suits. This was a difficult balancing act between “Do we want to burn to death, trapped upside down in the car in a gravel trap” and “Do we want to turn up at the track looking like a pair of cunts”. We decided to go cunt.

Anyway, beers were imbibed thanks to booking a hotel with FOUR pubs next to it (oh the wonders of StreetView), with Sienna – lead QA on Carma, and her hubby Stu, Game Director on Duels of the Planeswalkers and who has a head as full of petrol as mine is. Oh and then some bloke called Tony turned up…

Anyway, after too much beer, too much Naga chilli-infused peanuts, too much curry and a cheese board each, we retired for the night. And then didn’t sleep a wink thanks to a 6:00am start. How come when I know I’ve got to wake up early, I make things even worse by waking up all night thinking “Is it time to get up yet? Is it time to get up yet?”. Twat.

To the track at the ugly hour of 7:00am, and we started unloading the beast. No, I don’t mean we did a beer and curry poo; I mean we got the Radical off the trailer.

Off to the driver briefing, which has nothing to do with the drivers taking off their pants. No, instead it consists of a bloke standing up and telling you not to crash into one another, whilst cracking ‘jokes’ that you can tell he’s cracked 100 times before. Due to the extreme lack of food the night before, we then chow down on sausage sandwiches from the excellent burger van, and it’s off to the noise test, which I now pass easily thanks to fitting the GAY silencer (the race one registered 118dB on a 105dB limit!).

After the ‘sighting lap’ where you follow an instructor around the track at granny speeds like little baby ducklings swimming cutely after their little mummy down a winding summer stream AND INTO THE PATH OF AN INDUSTRIAL TREE SHREDDER THAT’S FALLEN SIDEWAYS INTO THE WATER… errrr, sorry about that. Errr, yes, anyway, after following the instructor around, it’s time to go out and play.

For the first outing, I stuck to the ‘wet’ tyres, because they work at a colder temperature – i.e. slower. At Snetterton I’d tried the slicks but was just too pathetically slow to get enough heat in them, and spun repeatedly. They scare me.

Rockingham is a great track. The oval is mad – proper bollock-diameter-testing material, and the infield is complicated and includes hairpins and a crazy never-ending multiple-apex left-hander that can be taken as a single corner if you get it right (which of course I didn’t). I thought it would be weird going anti-clockwise around a track (US tracks go anti-clockwise; European ones go clockwise), but actually I didn’t even notice. It didn’t even feel like somebody else…

So after a successful first couple of outings, it was time to bite the bullet and try them scary slicks again.

Out came the tools, including the crazy special jack that you need to get under a car with NO ground clearance.

But a Red Bull pit-stop it was NOT. The heat from the previous session meant that we couldn’t get the wheel nuts undone, however this is where having a BEER GUT helps. So I jumped up and down on the end of the torque wrench until my beer special power did the trick.

With Tony with me, I went back out again, taking it really easy around the oval, as that concrete wall didn’t look very friendly. Got to the first short straight and I gave it some power to try to spin-up the rears to get some heat in them, like wot they do on the telly… and IMMEDIATELY spun. Arse!

Continued in my ginger way for a while, slowly upping the pace, but then spun-off under braking around the second hairpin. Double-arse.

Finally it seemed to be working, and the slicks started really gripping. Everything seemed OK until I have it a bit too much around a corner and… Triple-arse. Around we went, ending up pointing in the wrong direction and causing the driver of the Caterham that we’d just overtaken to shit himself. At this point I thought I’d better come in!

I then went out with Janny and it seemed to be going well – and I’d remembered the GoPro, so there’s footage of this too. Got proper heat in the slicks this time, so I tried to stop being such a gay twat and start doing proper braking like wot them racing drivers does. At Snetterton I’d felt a right dick, as I’d think “Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiit, I’ve left the braking too late!” at the end of the straight, only to hammer on them and then sheepishly realise that I now need to accelerate again to get to the corner! The braking of a 600kg car with 750kg of downforce on race tyres and carbon-ceramic pads is just surreal, and takes a lot of getting used to.

However at Knobingham, I got a bit too used to it coming into that bloody hairpin at the end of the oval section. You can see this on the vid – I realised that this just wasn’t going to happen, so at the last moment my klaxon went off: “ABORT! ABORT! ABANDON CORNER!”. Luckily the unused part of the oval continued beyond the cones, so I used it as a run-off area, and then quickly rejoined the track hoping that nobody had noticed. Nobody that is except for the video camera…

Slowly started getting the pace up and all seemed to be going well, except for that fucking corner where I’d spun with Tony. The car is so low down, it’s difficult to see the apex until it’s too late, and only after the event when looking at a map of the layout, I realised that the corner is more than 90 degrees – never realised that when driving around it!

This time I turned in way too late, tried to put on too much lock even for a Radical, and we understeered off the track, hit the grass, slid across it and ended-up in the kitty litter (the stuff showing all over us – luckily Janny had only just that moment fully closed her visor, and thus narrowly avoided a severe pebble-dashing of the gob).

(That footage makes me cringe, I have to say, as it is SO SLOW! The best lap is a pathetic 1’36” or thereabouts – over 10 seconds slower than I was by the end of the day. It’s painful to watch actually, as I can see the gear indicator – I was flat out in the next gear up on some of those bends a few hours later! But guess who’d forgotten to charge the GoPro? Doh! So of course you’ll just have to take my word for it. I did go a lot faster, honest!)

Anyway, we tried to rejoin but we were stuck solid, wheelspinning away and spitting crap all over the track. During the take-your-briefs-off meeting at the start of the day, we were told NOT to leave your car if you come off the track and are stuck, so we sat there, awaiting rescue.

And sat there. And sat there. Nothing happened. Then we looked around and realised that we couldn’t see any marshals’ posts from where we were, which by definition meant that they couldn’t see us. We were up against the Armco in a car so low, the Armco was higher than us, so we were totally hidden! After about ten minutes I opted on breaking da rulz, and hopped out and nonchalantly walked across to find a marshall, causing a total panic and the red flagging of the race. Well what were we meant to do, sit there until discovered by archaeologists with Space Trowels of the Future?

They towed us back onto the track, and we drove back to the pits, spitting more crap all over the braking points and corners. Back at base it was off with the bodywork and out with the carrier bags – we filled three whole bags with kitty litter! Whoops.

Back out again and this time I really started to get the hang of it. Fluffed a few gear-changes due to taking the “Clutchless up-changes – just dip the throttle a little” a bit too far, basically trying to up-change under full power. Even a straight-cut sequential race box won’t manage that.

That damned wall is scary though! We were pulling a sustained 2g or thereabouts around that oval section, doing about 140mph. Right next to a concrete wall, which leered “Go on then, take me ON!” at us. The thought of what would have happened if something had let go on the car, or we’d got a puncture, or I’d just cocked it up, doesn’t bear thinking about. Well, other than as Carma research of course, which actually would have been excellent!

Scariest thing was a repaired piece of tarmac, which caused the car to jump about three foot to the right when it hit it – at a fuck-tonne of miles per hour, towards the wall. So I made sure I was four foot from a wall at that point :)

By the end of the day, I’d lost the gayness of my braking points and was really pushing the boundaries (well, for me anyway). There are no cones to mark your turn-in points at Todger’n’ham, so I found other things to remember them by, such as the ‘R’ of Rockingham written on the concrete wall at the hairpin after the oval, and a weed growing by the side of the track coming into the corner they expertly referred to as “The wibble wobble”.

You’re not allowed any sort of timing devices there for insurance reasons – same as any track day – but luckily I had a Tony, who is of course Above the Law. He timed me at 1’26” two-up with a full tank of fuel, and I definitely went a bit quicker than that in my final session (for one, I actually managed to have the kahunas to not lift at all going around the oval on my last two laps of the day). Given that this is what the BTCC cars lap at, and only a few seconds off Radical race pace, I’m now officially A Happy Boy.

We left at 4:40pm in order to make the 9:00pm ferry, as the next one was midnight, and bugger waiting in the anus of the UK known as Portsmouth for three hours. Of course towing a trailer is limited to 60mph, so we needed to leave plenty of time.

But we got to the ferry port at 7:02pm. Errrrr… sorry about that officer, must have hit a worm hole on the way or something… errrr….

Then beer at the port. Beer on the ferry and beer at home.

What a great day. I couldn’t move my girly arms until about Tuesday though – those G-forces aren’t compatible with my pen-pushing physique.

Donington and Silverstone are booked for July, so there’s plenty of time yet to end up on fire upside down in a gravel trap. I promise I will do my best to stack it, all in the name of research.


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    1. schnide on June 27, 2013

      I left this a little while just so I could gather my thoughts and give the considered reply it deserved.

      "We're confident that fans of the game will be disappointed if they cancel their pledge, only to then buy the game at full price when they see how good it is."

      I think, before, we were slightly too harsh on you. The biggest evil with ignorance is that it doesn't know its own nature. It's more obvious to me now why you never got the problem with what you did. It's true that you're a small team and you're not on the mainland either, which will leave you slightly out of step with the way things are now elsewhere. But I am, genuinely, embarrassed for you with the above reply - it's the kind of over-enthusiastic, misguided PR attempt I'd mark down from a sixth former on their first business project. It's pretty clear now that in a lot of ways you're having to make this up as you go along. Not only would any other studio have handled this all maturely and respectfully having upset as many fans as you did, but they'd have never let that update out the door in the first place.

      You don't get it that the reason a refund was asked for, was because it's more important to get your money back, and miss out on one game, than have it go towards a product (or a team) that supports gaybashing, intentional or otherwise. Anyone you issue a refund for will never buy that game from you again, and you've lost a fan.. which as a small studio is one of the biggest sins you can make. The best you could do instead was take their act, which is more noble than ranting about going cunt and substandard silencers will ever be, and try and turn it into a plug for the finished game.

      That is, actually.. kinda pathetic. So my biggest hope is that behind the scenes you do understand what happened but just are too proud to apologise for any hurt you caused and that hopefully, we won't see anything similar again. It really is just hurting yourselves, and I don't think any of your loyal Kickstarters want to see that, for you or for the game.

    2. Missing avatar

      Stephen Watson on June 22, 2013

      You know this car HAS to be in the game!

    3. Missing avatar

      SF on June 19, 2013

      This post confuses me, are they developing the game or racing cars? Does racing cars somehow provide R&D towards finishing the game?

    4. Stainless Games Creator on June 14, 2013

      @ Richard: We did not "cave in", we just gave a refund when it was requested. As we always will.

      We're confident that fans of the game will be disappointed if they cancel their pledge, only to then buy the game at full price when they see how good it is.

    5. schnide on June 14, 2013

      Professional victims.. what a curious idea that people who signed up to fund a game that murders pedestrians (albeit in a cartoon manner) would be the kind of people who generally use offense as some kind of hobby.

      Why do you find it so threatening that so many don't want to accept language that bullies or causes discomfort to others? And I'm *still* interested why you seem to care so much yourself Richard. For someone who finds such 'offense' so ridiculous.. you seem pretty outraged about it all yourself, don't you?

    6. Richard on June 14, 2013

      My only trolling regret is that i wasn't very good at it. As you pointed out.

      On topic though, the issue here for me is the fact that the you get professional victims claiming major offense at minor things.

      I'm gutted stainless caved in a gave you a refund but because they have now supported the profession, admitted wrong-doing and lost the respect of those on the other side of this.

      Everyone else here crying about gay silencers should now claim their refund too, and have it given to them.

      You win.

    7. Veav on June 14, 2013

      Refund complete, this will be my last post. My fingers are crossed that the devs are taking more out of this than they're willing to publicly admit. But speculation won't buy beer, and the sneering face of this company is not one I want in my life.

      @schnide, keep up the good fight. @gonejackalslegacy, Full Throttle is the best game ever made. @Richard, maybe not the best issue to troll.

      @Stainless, in the unverified words of Morgan Freeman: I hate the word homophobia. It’s not a phobia. You are not scared. You are an asshole.

    8. schnide on June 13, 2013

      GoneJackalsLegacy - you've made some genuinely good points.

      To clarify, I didn't "pull the N word" except for a direct analogy in a similar way that you yourself cited Stainless would want to avoid looking like racists. At no point did I invoke Godwin's Law and most importantly, it's not jumping the gun to make accusations of gay bashing. Using the word gay as a negative and refusing to accept or respect the fact that it is, as you rightly say, diminishing to the worthiness/courage of homosexuals, is gay bashing. Like it or not, intentional or not.

      I'd also contest the opposite of your claim that it had these connotations pre-2000; up to then, it had only just finally been reclaimed as a word by the gay community. It's only been post-2000 that it's filtered back in as a negative with some kind of sideways oh-it's-okay-because-I-don't-mean-it-like that usage, and that's why it's important to stand up against it in situations like this and anywhere else. It's nothing to do with making myself feel better, because there really are other places I'd rather be spending my time, but I'm not a fan of prejudice against any groups and I won't be subjected to wording that supports it coming into my inbox. I'm fulfilling exactly the basic human duty you mentioned. If I'd donated to some kind of hate group, I'd expect it. Not from the relaunch of an old PC game with slapstick cartoon violence.

      Unfortunately, their stubborn refusal to deal with the issue and failure to understand it has shown that they'd be unlikely to implement your in-game suggestions with the nuance and humility required. In fact, I'm fully expecting there to be a lot more similar references in the next update and even the full game itself now.

      You do, again, otherwise make some very eloquent points on which Stainless would show some actual bravery and intelligence in addressing.

    9. Missing avatar

      Retour2Kick on June 13, 2013

      Okay, I might be late to the discussion (had an exhausting road trip, couldn't get around finishing my post). I'll try to keep up. Here's my point of view on the issue:

      When I read that blog post, I found the swearing a little bit heavy (not just the "gay" part), but realized that it was about Carmageddon and the spirit behind it - if you remember the era when the original game was released and how the press/media/politicians reacted, the devs broke several rules about political-correctness, some people accusing the game of teaching kids to run over people (especially old people). The devs were also quite nuts.

      Now, regarding the use of the word "gay" as part of the swearing, it sounded much more outdated than offensive to me. Stuck in pre-2000, at least. Probably from the 80s/90s. A sorry mistake, more than a homophobic rant.


      That's where I can't really agree with you schnide, you're way too eager to jump the gun and call someone homophobic, pull the N-word, a Godwin point and call someone a "gay basher" - what is it going to achieve ? Beside making you feel better ("oh yeah, people who don't agree with me/don't listen to my arguments are despicable people, therefore I'm a nicer person"), it will do nothing to improve the situation.

      Richard very probably has good reasons to think that the use of the word "gay" in that news entry isn't "that bad", and that gay people shouldn't be spared from jokes on the sole reason that "they're very special people that we need to nurture because they can't stand by themselves" - being against (over)victimization doesn't mean being against the victims themselves.

      That's where you should detail and explain there's a difference between equality-in-humour (everyone get their share of bashing), and the oppression of a minority already subject to violence and discriminations (over-bashing a specific group). That's where you try to explain there's a difference between a joke making fun of a stereotype/"character" and a joke only aimed at hurting a category of people because of their very nature - like there's jokes on the stereotyped "black culture" (gangsta, rap, civil rights movements expressions) and simply racist jokes (slavery, less intelligent minds, rape, theft, etc).

      That's also where you insist on the importance of the context, on who's making the joke and in which circumstances ; and why the answers you got from the author and SG don't allow a non-homophobic context to appear, leaving you to wonder if the initial intention is actually homophobic (despite the claim it isn't).


      To the author of that news entry, I want to say: "gay" is no longer carrying the meaning you were (probably) looking for. It isn't about political correctness, pretending to "respect" minorities and all that crap, it is about keeping up with the evolution of our language and our society.

      That discussion reminds me of the stories I read online about old grand-parents in the US: back in the 40s/50s, and later in some regions, some very respectful and nice people were calling black people "negroes" because back then the word "black" was much more offensive. Nowadays we're using the term "afro-american", and maybe in 10 years we'll use a different word/combination of words.

      The problem with these linguistic evolutions is how they're shaping the meaning of our sentences: ignoring these mutations is exposing ourselves to misinterpretation of our intents. Again, it isn't about political correctness, it is about successfully communicating with people around us. You don't want to sound like a racist, homophobe or sexist dick because you're using the wrong words, right ?


      That's why I think, dear Batwick, that the only thing you should do, is clarifying what you meant by using the word "gay" (editing in a sentence about the original post), and explaining how you understand the subtle difference existing between political correctness and using the adequate words to convey a specific meaning.

      There's plenty of other words/expressions one can use to express the lack of virility, masculinity, "manliness", courage, etc. Let's just get around avoiding the word "gay" to express that, as it's diminishing the worthiness/courage of homosexuals, implying that being gay (as in, homosexual) means not being a "real" brave individual. History proved it's complete bollocks, homosexuals are just as courageous as heterosexuals, in everyday life and on the battlefield.

      Like it or not, using the word "gay" like that *is* making their lives shittier than it needs to be, crushing their self-esteem under the weight of a surrounding "mundane" homophobia. It wouldn't be too much of a problem if they were dealing with the same amount crap most of us deal with everyday (everyone get made fun of, because they're thin/fat, small/tall, from a specific ethnic origin or country), but reality showed us homosexuals get to endure much more discrimination than heterosexuals.

      So if we're not inhumane assholes, we can agree to not bash on homosexuals (because of they homosexuality) too much, and focus on something else. Making an effort on not using the words "gay", "fag", "faggots" very often is an easy routine we can all follow in our everyday lives, it's not something unreachable. It is important, because homosexuals are, right now in 2013, still fighting to have equal rights in our societies - not bashing them isn't just a thing to look fancier, it is a basic duty for all citizens.


      If Stainless Games got humour and guts, they'll add a rainbow flag sticker on the side of the car and make some puns on being "gay" (being joyful, about the racing, the trip) and "straight" (as a "weakness" word: 'went straight for the brakes...', 'straight into the comfort of a more reasonable speed') in the next racing news entry. I seriously hope such thing will happen. The ball is in your court, SG.

      Otherwise, I'll be kinda sorry that Stainless Games is led by an old, grumpy man who can't keep up with our current world. Wouldn't it be quite ironic to have a new Carmageddon, made by a Daily Mail reader ? :P


      ps: that trip to the racing track seemed awesome, plenty of fun and thrills - I hope you'll understand it would be a shame to ruin that fun with just a misused word :)

    10. Veav on June 13, 2013

      Oh, I get it. But I won't condone it nor have anything to do with it.

    11. Richard on June 13, 2013

      For their greater good. Like it or not.

    12. schnide on June 13, 2013

      Better to be a rich homophobe than an almost-as-rich decent human being eh?

      I'm still interested why you care so much Richard. Although at least you're a gay basher that's responding even if you, like them, seem to have trouble with direct points. Let's ask you instead - any problem with racist slurs your end or are they funny too?

    13. Veav on June 13, 2013

      Gay-bashing for the greater good, eh?

    14. Richard on June 13, 2013

      I would just say that if this hits the social sites, it increases awareness of the game, lose a few whiners for the greater good.If they get hated for it or it goes the wrong way, then that's the risk they take for being how they are. IF they were to then start whining about that, they would look rather stupid.

    15. Veav on June 13, 2013

      Sadly, this is accurate. But you asked how they have a problem? These conversations are going to take place with or without them; reddit, twitter, faceberks, tumblr, blogs and social media. That's how word-of-mouth works, and by refusing to engage, they're giving up their opportunity to frame those discussions to come.

      No, the internet isn't going to have a shit-fit about this, nor is it going to make waves - especially during E3 week. But at least for my friends and family, SG is now known as "the guys who gave us an awesome game back in the day but are now right wankers", and the peds will go unsplattered.

    16. schnide on June 13, 2013

      The discussion is unfinished, my inbox is still open for the project I funded. And because I helped fund this project, I have a right to give input on how it develops - as proven by the existence of these comment boxes. I asked them questions, which were ignored. Maybe they will continue to ignore them, but that doesn't mean I have to stop asking them. It'd be a very strange (or unpleasant) world we live in if everyone followed your "they don't care, so shut up" attitude.

      Interesting that you used the word 'force' for me but 'convince' for them though - and that you seem to care so much about what they apparently shouldn't.

    17. Richard on June 13, 2013

      And your inbox was used, you replied here and made your point, and they made theirs.

      The discussion was had.

      I could see you may like a way of unsubscribing so you don't have to read their posts anymore. But beyond that its said and done.

      You cannot force them to see it your way no more than they can convince you to see it theirs.

      I don't see how they have any problem. You have no grounds to demand anything here. Sure it's 'bad' PR, but then so is everything they do. They have already said they are proud of that. I don't see why they would or should care about your continued rants.

    18. schnide on June 13, 2013

      A discussion is a two-way dialogue. My inbox is open to whatever they send next, and this comment box is here for me - as a Kickstarter contributor - to reply to it. So, discussion.

      And so my question to them is whether it's more likely I'll receive a) an explanation that maybe they now see why what they said was wrong and can guarantee I won't get any more b) more homophobia instead c) anything equally 'humorous' such as racism etc. which also seems to fit their definition and to which my previous questions were ignored.

      I'll bet you it isn't a) and that for them as a company presents a problem.

    19. Richard on June 13, 2013

      What discussion? There is no discussion.

      You don't like what was said, they don't care.

    20. schnide on June 13, 2013

      I don't want my money supporting the ugly, homophobic ignorant language that Neil 'Nobby' Barnden thinks it's okay to spew into my inbox - but then I'd also rather not have the money back than lose the opportunity to call him out on it.

      "There’s really nothing more to add from my point of view," is not acceptable and for the price of my $15 contribution, you can now be publicly labelled for the nasty, homophobic views you hold instead if you won't be challenged on them. How about the SG community manager has a public discussion on here - come on, manage the community with us! Try addressing even half the points that I've raised and Barnden ignored. And then maybe you can do the job that your boss ran away from and dumped on you.

    21. Veav on June 13, 2013

      My personal interpretation is "to shut you up" but that is unsubstantiated - they were polite and focused on the task of delivering a refund, and I can respect that.

    22. Richard on June 13, 2013

      So on what grounds were you granted a refund?

    23. Veav on June 13, 2013

      Update (for anyone in a similar situation): due to the time elapsed, Amazon Payments won't do anything, but they've assured me that it's okay with them if you file a chargeback/reversal through your bank - it won't affect any other past, present, or future transactions.

      However it looks like it won't be necessary in my case. The SG community manager has responded and we're going over options (since I don't have paypal, I offered gift cards or a donation to Stonewall UK to match).

      I would've preferred change; I would've preferred a frank and rational discussion between adults. But I'm not a crusader, I don't have the temperament or the gift of gab. I'll settle for voting with my wallet on this one.

    24. Veav on June 12, 2013

      I'm guessing that they've decided on the demographic they want to appeal to. Which is their right, just as it's my right to firmly declare myself not of that group. Still waiting on a response of any kind to my refund; I've begun talking to Amazon and my bank about my options.

    25. schnide on June 12, 2013

      It's all quiet on the homophobic front around here.

      They aren't willing (or possibly able) to engage in discussions about it. I'd guess that Nobby is something close to twice my age - and to see a grown man, a games developer I've respected for many years, run away as a homophobic coward is really saddening.

      I'm shocked they didn't even apologise from a PR point of view just to save some company face, but to insist they're still right is astounding. Ignorance is an inevitable thing sometimes and to a certain point it's understandable - but to stubbornly continue on when it's exposed afterwards shows some very ugly true colours.

    26. Missing avatar

      Eric on June 11, 2013

      Can't believe they're defending their 'gay' remarks. There's a difference between having that humor in a game and being an unprofessional game developer.

    27. Richard on June 10, 2013

      I will admit I'm disappointed with that score, but never mind.

    28. Veav on June 10, 2013

      2/10, troll harder

    29. Richard on June 10, 2013

      But it might upset the Christians...

    30. Veav on June 10, 2013

      I shouldn't think so. Could mix it up a little though; fudge packing, pipe cleaning, prostate exam, thailand express, caligula'd... Iunno, choose your own adventure, but this and that are not the same.

    31. Richard on June 10, 2013

      So in terms of gameplay, if you ram someone up the arse, is the fudge packing bonus now off the cards?

    32. schnide on June 10, 2013

      Nobby – your arguments don’t stand up, and I’m surprised you’re not sitting down from both a personal and PR point of view and thinking about this deeper.

      Political correctness is a term that gets used by closet racists, homophobes and the generally ignorant who don't like their hateful toys being taken away - those toys being words like n*gger, c**n, p**f, P*ki, shirtlifter, f*ggot etc. These are words that ‘comedians’ from several decades ago loved to say were only words and just a bit of fun. We all know those words have power beyond that now. For want of a less melodramatic phrase, the right and wrong words can change the world. But much as you might like to pretend that there's a brigade somewhere marking down what you can and can't say because that outrageous notion gives you something to clench your first and wave your rolled-up Sun against, that weekly mother’s meeting or government department doesn't exist anywhere. And you know it.

      So to your quaint little notion of "people with sense of humour bypasses." Those who don't find your use of 'un-PC' terms appropriate, apparently suddenly don't know what funny is. To repeat – I’ve been a fan of your games since the first. It's worth noting that you don't like being told what words you should and shouldn't use - but you also seem to think that you're able to define for people what’s funny or not. Don’t like your jokes? Well, no sense of humour, clearly. It’s funny because you say it is. That’s the only meaning a word has, because you say so. Everyone else be damned. That sure sounds like the language of bullying to me.

      But on funny, you're right in that South Park and Family Guy often go straight for the nerve and virtually every episode has something in there which would be potentially offensive to some groups. But here's the thing - they know exactly what they're doing, it's deliberate and calculated, everyone's a fair target and even with supposed dumb humour, they're pretty damn smart with it. It works when Cartman calls Kyle gay (regardless of which version he means), because we all know that Cartman is the ignorant character with hateful views. We laugh at and occasionally with him.. but not because we want to be like him or share his hatred of Jews, women or gays. Well, in my case anyway. Instead of homophobia, would you ever include anti-Semitism in the next Carmageddon update? Feeling so, un-PC now are we? You still never answered me about the N word.

      So as much as you really do have a great game on your hands, don’t pretend you’re even half as clever as Parker, Stone or MacFarlane because you understand neither your product or the terms you’re using. This will break your heart but Carmageddon, at its core, is not politically incorrect. Carmageddon is violent, comedically unpleasant - but if anything, it's 100% politically correct in that the murder in your game is truly democratised and does not discriminate against anyone. Every pedestrian is a potential victim. The death that comes to every NPC is the same red mess. For Carmageddon to be un-PC in the way that you are for some reason trying to be proud of would need you to include characters like Raj The Curry Muncher or Peter The Pink Shirted P**fter as playable characters. You and I both know you won’t.

      However, and here’s the difference - Batwick’s update DOES discriminate in this way. It very specifically – and repeatedly – uses homophobic language for which you used my money to send into my inbox. There is absolutely no sense in which ‘gay twat’ is not discriminatory or hateful. Originally I didn’t believe it was intentional, but the more statements you come out with, the more easily I believe that you hold these views. Once again, they’re your hateful little toys - and for whatever reason, you really don’t want to let go of them, do you?

    33. Veav on June 10, 2013

      As material for art it's fine, but you don't go LIVING it, any more than you kick babies after watching South Park or... something after watching Family Guy (never got around to that one, so fill in your own controversy there). And this wasn't in Carmageddon, was it? This was a lovingly-crafted personal anecdote from the CEO's life.

      Please handle the refund request sitting in your inbox at your earliest convenience.

    34. Stainless Games Creator on June 10, 2013

      Hi, nobby here again. We pride ourselves on being politically incorrect around here, and if that’s not abundantly apparent from the themes that are core to Carmageddon, then I’m surprised. We also love the sort of comedy that prides itself in also being fantastically un-PC, such as Southpark and Family Guy. And I bet they spend a fair bit of time watching people with sense of humour bypasses debating their material too. There’s really nothing more to add from my point of view.

    35. Luke on June 9, 2013

      @Daniel S. - that's clearly not the vein in which it's intended. And self-deprecation is fine, but using "gay" as an insult should be discouraged regardless of whether it's used against yourself or someone else.

    36. Daniel S. on June 9, 2013

      Just imagine that he's using the word gay in the traditional sense, referring to feelings of being "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy". Besides that, it's all meant as self deprecating humour which I feel is just typically British.

    37. Cuddly Tiger
      on June 9, 2013

      I've got to add another +1 for Schnide's post. Without all the gaybashing, this would have been a great post; as it stands it's just unacceptable. There's a difference between being funny and being hateful, and this crossed the line, even if it was unintentional.

    38. Martin O
      on June 9, 2013

      Nice, I enjoyed reading this story and watching the video, it looks like it was a hell of fun!

    39. Missing avatar

      Andrew Funk
      on June 8, 2013

      I too was incredibly disappointed in the use of 'gay' as a derogatory slur. I agree whole-heartedly with the +1 for Schnide's post. I hope you can realize that the use of 'gay' in a negative context like this is not 'sick humour' but rather just sick...

    40. Luke on June 8, 2013

      Also noting my disappointment at the use of the word "gay". +1 for Schnide's post.

      Apart from that, it's a great update, so please don't think I'm rubbishing anything else.

    41. Veav on June 8, 2013

      "But you backed-!"

      There's also a difference, a STRONG difference, between the contextualized delivery of Carmageddon's humour and being an everyday bloke on the interbutts. Schindler's List, Blazing Saddles, Priscilla Queen of the Desert - Deathrace 2000 - these are edgy, risqué, and filled with derogatory language and situations. They aren't just acceptable, they're Americana. Classic must-see films.

      But that wouldn't make it okay for Sylvester Stallone to run people over while commuting, or for Mel Brooks to drop racial slurs in interviews. Mel Gibson being in Mad Max doesn't make it right when he talks shit about Jews and Orson Scott Card writing Ender's Game sure as shit doesn't put any kind of acceptable perspective on his openly homophobic rants. And if Batwick's logic on this is that it's okay to do some backhanded gay-bashing because nobody protests when he kills innocent old ladies in a video game, I wouldn't want to be in the parking lot after he watches Brokeback Mountain.

      We are NOT talking about Carmageddon in any sense folks! We are talking about Stainless Games giving their man a soapbox, and his peculiar decision to slag off marginalized subsets of humanity while up there. Take off the rose-colored glasses and ask yourself what you intended to support with your fifty quid.

    42. Missing avatar

      richard on June 8, 2013

      Wow, I didn't realise there was a response trying to justify it.
      I think schnide has pretty much nailed it below me.

      I don't wish to support a company whose representatives feel that casual homophobia can be acceptable as it is edgy or 'risqué'. I would like to request a refund.

    43. schnide on June 8, 2013

      "which I now pass easily thanks to fitting the GAY silencer"

      I too have come here because of this sentence, which is unacceptable. Language is a very powerful thing, and using gay as a negative reinforces the suggestion that being gay is somehow wrong. That view is fine if you live in the 70s.

      You've been very, very shortsighted in posting the following:

      "Secondly, the reaction to the GAY jokes are beyond me! The whole point of Carmageddon is sick humour (don't forget: HUMOUR). It's meant to be about breaking the rules and doing what you're not meant to do. How come it's OK to kill an innocent old lady, but not say 'gay' in a derogatory fashion? Get things in perspective please - Carmageddon is all about being risqué!"

      Whether they're beyond you or not, times have moved on. You didn't use the word to be funny, it wasn't humour, you've used the word gay as a negative. The reason it's 'okay' to kill an innocent old lady is because we do that in-game knowing that there are no real consequences to our actions. Whatever primal need for violence we have that gaming allows us to act out without causing real harm to others, language is an everyday thing which can and does cause harm. Your use of the word had nothing to do with acting out power fantasies - or at least, I hope not. There does appear to be either some homophobia or general ignorance in your failing to see why this is an issue, and insisting you're in the right does you no favours. There's nothing risqué in what you've said - unless you want to go throwing the N word around in the same vein? No? Gone all quiet have you?

      You're out of order on this one Stainless. Just because it doesn't cause any issues to you, doesn't mean it doesn't cause any issues.

      And ironically, there's a line below this text entry field which says "Be respectful and considerate." Ironic. You should be doing the same.

    44. Missing avatar

      Chris Moore on June 8, 2013

      If Portsmouth is the anus of the UK, what does that make the Isle Of Wight? ;o)
      Chris from Cosham, PO6

    45. Missing avatar

      ELLIOTT JOHNSON on June 8, 2013

      Glad to see our Kickstarter funds going to a good cause ;) That Radical looks FUN AS HELL!

    46. Veav on June 7, 2013

      I'm not stoked about cunt, twat, knob, dick, or the rest of 'em - but between Monty Python, Simon Pegg and Eddie Izzard I get that they're a part of UK vocabulary. Gay is not as far as I know and it stuck out to me. The post as a whole was a bizarre mix of interesting insight into the racetrack and pointlessly juvenile references to sex ed.

      Anyway, between this "update" and y'all's violent reaction to concerns raised, I've requested a refund. Once I get it I'll be out of your hair and you can Jersey Shore to your heart's content.

    47. Richard on June 7, 2013

      And look at that, kickstarter censors have spoken, the c word is not acceptable to use, gay is ;)

    48. Richard on June 7, 2013

      Lol! it's ridiculous that people can look past the word cunt yet cry about gay.

      People just love to get offended for attention seeking purposes.

    49. Missing avatar

      Achim on June 7, 2013

      @Stainless Games and especially @Batwick

      Thank you very much for the clarification!!!
      I was really worried a bit that you just have fun with "our" money and neglect the game. I absolutely like updates like that, it is really interesting what you did that day. I just think you should have mentioned somewhere in the Update, that it was your car and that you didn't buy it with the money from kickstarter, since it also has Carmageddon-brands on it.

      Please don't be angry, but the way you presented that update sounded like we paid for it.

      Also another question: did you sometime mention in the updates WHERE exactly the extra funding game from, or even how much it was, because i don't remember reading it.

      Except from that, plz continue doing updates like that, because they really are interesting, but mention somewhere that you are still in making the game.


    50. Bart Gasiewski
      on June 7, 2013

      @Huw it's not pro-homosexual, it's pro-equality and that's kind of the point.
      And it's not whining when you ask someone to be considerate on a public forum.