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Rendered in beautiful 3D animation, Alice enters the "Otherlands" of London's most beautiful and terrifying minds.
3,389 backers pledged $222,377 to help bring this project to life.

American's Words

Posted by American McGee (Creator)

A short update today with lots of words. (Yes, you read that right.) Today I have interviews galore for you to read and a plea direct from American that you should feel free to send to everyone you know who loves Alice. Now is the most difficult period for a Kickstarter, so use these links to their fullest.

American McGee's Blog Post

Gameskinny Interview

91.8 The Fan Radio Interview

We Got This Covered Interview

Gamestar.ru Interview

Also, new art! From artist Nako, Saint Saens' Danse Macabre. It's an eerie piece of art but then it's an eerie piece of music. 

From Oregon where it's hot (like everywhere else),

Ophelea

  • Image 298701 original.jpg?ixlib=rb 1.1

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    1. Missing avatar

      John Boles on

      @American In response to your 2nd paragraph to eXo: It seems clear that his issue with the manipulated artwork is that, had he not pointed it out, you had every intention of selling it DESPITE being fully aware of the manipulation prior to him pointing it out. Basically, I think he's saying you knew it was copyright infringement, but still planned on selling it anyway until you were called out on it.

      That's a very bold assumption to make, and it obviously doesn't help that he's acted like a child in making the accusation. I would just let him go on his way and stop responding because I feel like these prolonged battles in the comments can only harm people's perceptions of the project and you as its creator.

    2. American McGee 3-time creator on

      @eXo, can you please provide a list of all the things that are bothering you (about this campaign, this update and anything I might have said to offend you?) Throughout all of this I've done my best to answer your questions, explain to you what we're doing and ask that you understand and support our efforts. You started all this with accusations and negativity. Not once have I resorted to insulting you, told you that you or wrong or accused you of lying. I have asked you to either "move along" or "go away." Given the hate you are spewing at me and this campaign, I think those are reasonable requests presented in a mature fashion.

      So. What else is bothering you? Today it seems you are upset about the fact that the Saent Sans print was offered for sale, then after your question, was removed from sale. What is the exact problem here? Why are you so angry about this? The image was posted. It was offered for sale. You pointed out that it contained manipulated original artwork. I agree with you and said, "Good eye!" The image was removed from sale. The "conversation" continued from there. I said repeatedly that you were correct in your observations.

      What's really confusing is why we haven't moved on from there. Why did you start off from such a negative place? Why are you still insulting me? What exactly do you want?

      I would really like us to focus on making this campaign a success. Is it wrong that I think this continuing antagonistic discussion isn't helping achieve that goal? Or that I would prefer to spend my energy on more positive things?

      I've been told I should not engage you on this, but I believe in full transparency and would like to maintain an open and healthy dialog with all of our backers - even those that seem incapable of carrying a conversation without constantly slinging insults. Please, prove wrong those advisers who are telling me there's no way to resolve this issue with you. Thanks.

    3. Jackie Florian on

      Enjoying all these interviews by the way. Very neat to see what you have to say with every questions. :)

    4. eXoScoriae on

      @Jinx and anyone else questioning whether or not this was intended to be an addon - simply look at the email you received for update 14. It seems Shannon has noticed this as well.

      It specifically states:
      "Also, new art! From artist Nako, Saint Saens' Danse Macabre. It's an eerie piece of art but then it's an eerie piece of music. I've added it to the front as an add-on."

      So at this point the original email that every single person here received says it has been added as an addon, and then right below you can see American state, "no, we are not selling the image."

      I don't need to show screenshots at this point, you have the evidence right there in your inboxes.

      As for that apology American, you can eat it. You are a lying piece of crap acting like you never intended to sell it while specifically stating that you never intended to below. You backtracked, lied about it, and then played the victim.

    5. Jinx on

      @Shannon
      I am pretty sure American wouldn't have posted this art update if it wasn't going to be included on the add-on list. If you read through his comments, he never directly stated that it never was an add-on. Anytime he mentions it, you can add a 'now/currently'. No where did he deny it wasn't 'previously' included.
      American did what any project creator would of done, responded as best as he could to exo, and remove any content in question.
      However, exo didn't respond as if it was any project creator, he has personal beef with American's work. If it was any other person, maybe a PR person instead, he would have just asked for the content to be removed instead of going off the deep end.

    6. Justin on

      @Leo - yes, but it wont do any good. Kickstarter doesn't care.

    7. Shannon Chin on

      Dear Mr McGee,
      I have backed this project and am trying to spread the word around through Tumblr and Facebook. I support you and I truly hope that Alice is a success. I don't agree with the personal insults you have sustained from Exo. However, one thing that puzzles me is that the original email notification that was sent out regarding update #12 does state that the above piece of work was included in the list of add-ons. Was this a mix-up? A typo? This may be the cause for all the confusion

    8. Leo on

      Are we able to report individuals on kickstarter?

    9. Adrien Siregar on

      exo, no what's silly is that you are still arguing with yourself about it. American clearly said there was photo manipulation and I personally have no problem with that, but you seem to think it's copy and pasting. Sorry, but me along with everyone else here has American's back. I side with what's right, not with someone who tries to abuse other people's work for their own pleasure.

    10. Justin on

      @Victor - LOL! True dat!

      Why does kickstarter tolerate people like exo? The same type of jerk constantly blew up the gamestick comment threads. Very annoying!!!

    11. Tami Von Doll on

      exo seems to have gotten a little "inspiration" from beer, eh? good thing american and other writers of the american page have enough maturity to avoid another fish episode. you're outnumbered here buddy, go try to gain publicity somewhere else. american has too many diehards for your shit.

    12. Missing avatar

      Victor on

      To any extent, at least this wasn't a "red kobe" incident XD

    13. Jinx on

      @exo
      I never said that there wasn't any link at all. I even said that art can be copied/edited/faked proving your point, plus i said it was unique/different 'enough' in my eyes. Why personally attack American when he didn't personally make the image? You made some valid points, but then went on to sling around threats you made to other sites along with a paragraph bashing his work. I also didn't really see many people completely denying the the link, you just spun their words in your own head, they just didn't like the way you attacked American.

    14. American McGee 3-time creator on

      @Jinx, Gotcha.

      @eXo, You made yourself and your position towards me clear. As a child I endured physical and psychological abuse at the hands of people who would afterwards turn around and say, "Sorry about that." Same thing with the bullies who knocked out my bottom teeth when I was in high school - who were later confronted with the fact. "Sorry about that." For me, your antagonistic, insulting and intentionally hurtful behavior falls into the same category as all abuse. After what you've said, saying "sorry" doesn't cut it. I don't have to tolerate bullying and abuse. No one should. My previous request that you drop your backing and leave me (and this project) alone still stands.

    15. Jinx on

      @American
      That's because it is obvious with the images that exo provided and then your responses after. As I said I don't have a problem with the 'manipulated' images. I just have a problem with the way exo went about his argument. My view is more along the lines of what Ben posted previously.

    16. eXoScoriae on

      What blows me away is the number of people who continue to deny there is a direct link between the pics, even after American confirmed it.

      And Jinx - people like you are a problem. I haven't lied here once. I've been confrontational and direct, and even insulting, but I've never lied. So don't pull this bullshit claiming a screenshot wouldn't matter because I could just make one up. I mean hell, you've already proven your blind by claiming the above image is "unique" even AFTER American specifically stated it was directly linked.

      American - I apologize for the personal attacks. They were out of line. My issue is with your notion that inspiration and copy/pasting is the same. My analogy of song sampling stands strong, and your retort to "look it up" is ironic in that looking it up only shows all the legal issues surrounding it.

      What particularly irritates me at this point is the fact that the image was originally up for sale and you have pulled that down and then claimed it was not being offered. Oh well.

      It may surprised all of you to learn that I actually would like to see this KS be successful. I don't feel that that copyright issues are the best way to get to that goal however.

    17. American McGee 3-time creator on

      @Jinx In my very first response on this topic (and in subsequent comments) I clearly stated, "The image in question uses photo manipulation combined with original art to quickly produce an idea." From the start I made it clear that Nako's image *IS* based off a combination of other images (namely, those created by Beksiński - as pointed out by our angry friend). What's been odd about this whole exchange is that the point of contention (the image being created by manipulating another artist's work) has never been contested. Seems some people just like arguing with themselves. Or they're looking for an excuse to rage against something. My mistake was in believing a statement like, "yes, you are correct" and "good eye!" would result in something other than a tantrum. Imagine if I had denied the "accusation!" We might have recorded real-world proof of spontaneous human combustion.

    18. Jinx on

      @Leo
      Screenshot wouldn't matter, as exo has claimed people can copy/edit art - websites are even simpler.
      http://imgur.com/soFoav5
      However I wouldn't say that the piece above was copied, it is unique and different enough that I don't have a problem with it. I only have a problem with the way exo is acting, go back a different project if you just want to bash the creator.

    19. Carson Taylor on

      Oh excuse me Cheshire Cat: "That's a pity. One's certainly looking for you."

    20. Carson Taylor on

      Lol leaving a comment now is like this:
      Alice: "I've not come back here looking for a fight."
      Cheshire Cat: "That's funny. One's certainly looking for you..."

    21. Leo on

      @ Exo ,

      Can you provide a screenshot of the print to be sold for 65?

    22. Brad Dancer
      Superbacker
      on

      wow, you guy should meet behind the school at 3pm. Struggling on both sides to have a lucid, adult conversation. Which is always easy through comments (just like reading sarcasm).

    23. eXoScoriae on

      Adrien: a yellow block on paper is a yellow block on paper. The arty above is not similar to beksinski, it is identical. Pixel per pixel (upper center blob area). No matter how much you guys like Beksinski, American, or Alice - trying to minimize this as any less than copying and pasting is silly.

    24. eXoScoriae on

      And for the record, I was only a dick after American pulled his smarmy "move along now" line and then followed it up with telling me to look up sampling, even though looking or up clearly shows all the legal issues around it. The simple fact is inspiration is not the same as copy and pasting. I'm sorry my later comments turned so many of you off, but they do not change this simple fact.

    25. eXoScoriae on

      My point stands no matter how I chose to follow it up. Just because I was a dick about it, doesn't make it any less true.

      And for those who mentioned the community guidelines, is like to point out that they also specifically state " no posting of copyright material".

      This art was originally going to be sold until I said this. Last night when this update first went live, it was an option under the posters section for 65 bucks. American is bold face lying when he says it was never going to be sold, which is one reason I chose to escalate the way I did.

    26. Adrien Siregar on

      Please eXoScoriae, go away. You're being rude and and inconsiderate. You do not have a point so stop trying. Why would you fund his project if you seem to dislike it so much? You're just insulting American and the artists that worked on the project. If you don't like it you can always go in a modern art museum where a completely yellow painting is worth millions and where you can say "I think it copied my little cousin's yellow paper drawing". There's a way to say things and a place too. Here are people who like American McGee and his projects. So please, fund it or leave it, but stop posting insulting comments around here. Thank you.

    27. Ben Branson on

      Hmm, I have to say that I'm one of those who went from @eXoScoriae "having a point", to "yikes, this is just unconstructive and awkward"... the more I read the more I had to dismiss the original post, despite the obvious validity (as confirmed by American) that some of it contained... that's not how to get a point across!

    28. Daniel on

      @eXoScoriae, This is not "using clips from some persons song in your own". IF that precise image appears in the final game, then sure - but that won't happen. I'm an indie game developer. Last time I had a character model needing doing, I sent examples of existing characters from other games to the artist to use as inspiration. It happens all the time and is part of the creative process. The only difference here is that the creative process is being made public.

    29. Matotron on

      @Kabraxis Yes that's what I thought too. The original point seemed sound then the other posts went off the deep end towards some personal beef with American/Spicy Horse. Very odd.

    30. Roland Powell on

      American - just ignore eXo, everyone has a right to an opinion, but some forget they have no right to insult or antagonise without cause... the only individuals who would have right to complain are those directly associated with artists from which work has been adapted... and I can safely say, in this case, those artists would be applauding, not complaining, at the adaption of their work

    31. Ren Shredder on

      What a pathetic loser. American, love the image, and would absolutely get it if you'd offer it as poster. I love Beksiński!

    32. Kabraxis on

      @eXoScoriae: At first I was like "Oh, he has his point" ... but with every following comment you made it was getting more and more ridicolous.
      Now you're acting like a child, anonymously harassing people on the internet, insulting someone on a personal level who you don't even know except from reading articles.
      You are clearly violating the ToS of Kickstarter and I hope you get banned from this platform soon, I don't see any reason why you should be allowed to stay.

      Sad to see how immature some people are.

    33. ET3D on

      @eXoScoriae, let me quote the Kickstarter community guidelines (http://www.kickstarter.com/help/community): "If you don't like a project, don't back it. No need to be a jerk." (Note also that a project creator can contact Kickstarter and get posts which break the guidelines deleted.)

    34. Missing avatar

      enthralled on

      @eXoScoriae, You made your point clear. I and everyone also have the right to say our thoughts. I think Spicy Horse made one of the most beautiful looking games in Alice Madness Returns.

    35. Missing avatar

      Victor on

      @eXo, man you are here to chew ppl out! I just want to say that I don't care about McGee's past, just that I love Alice as a character and her adventures. I have contributed what I could from my budget, as a college student, but I really wish to see the continuation of Alice's development for years to come!

    36. Becky, Oracle of Valoria on

      @eXo, Go away. Nobody is interested in seeing you slander and insult the creator of this project. We are here to support this project, not listen to a trash talking self appointed critic. Obviously the other 1865 backers of this project do not agree with your belittling assessment of American McGee and his works. Let's see you create a successful project of your own, then maybe you can come back and have these discussions as a peer and not simply as some green eyed troll.

    37. American McGee 3-time creator on

      @eXoScoriae, it's funny that you'd back a project by a person you clearly hate so much. You must live a very interesting and fulfilling life. Have a nice day.

    38. eXoScoriae on

      This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    39. American McGee 3-time creator on

      @eXoScoriae, I'm not your buddy, pal.

    40. eXoScoriae on

      I'm very aware it is called sampling. And Artists pay for the right to do it buddy.

      Some reading for you to do since you appear to be ignorant on the topic:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_surrounding_music_sampling

    41. American McGee 3-time creator on

      @eXoScoriae, If you're going to continue making accusations without being able to see that WE DO THIS SOMETIMES, and that it's not the end of the world, a violation of copyright or anything else that you're implying, then please, just remove your backing and go away. I do not appreciate being repeatedly accused of something that I'm opening admitting - and having a negative spin put on something that's not a negative. I'm openly saying, "yes, this is a photo manipulation. yes, we do this. no, we are not selling the image. no, it is not a violation." Do you think you're being at all helpful? Seriously, drop it or drop your backing.

      Using clips from another song is called "sampling" btw. Look it up. Happens ALL THE TIME.

    42. eXoScoriae on

      This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.

    43. eXoScoriae on

      American - I simply pointed out that the art was copied. Your response tried to spin copying into inspiration. I take issue with that as I feel this piece violate Beksinski's artistic rights. Downplaying it doesn't change the fact it is a copy paste job.

      I have sent a comparison of this art to Beksinski's estate.

      I have sent the same to kotaku, joystiq, and other sites that have covered your project so far.

      Move Along? No. I think I'll stay and make sure this gets some attention.

    44. eXoScoriae on

      Since when does "inspired by" = copy and paste?

      You can not use clips from another persons song in your own song and call it inspiration. You get sued for that, and many music artists *have* been sued for that.

      Art happens to work the same way. You guys can spin it any way you want. The simple fact is this is a copy paste job. Inspired by would be redrawing it in a similar manner. Like the van gogh piece.

    45. American McGee 3-time creator on

      @ExoScoriae - Not sure why are you taking such an antagonistic, accusatory tone. The image in question is not being sold as a part of this project. It's an inspiration piece, nothing more. If you'd asked me, instead of accusing me, about the inspiration for the image, I would have told you - same as I did with your original comment. Nothing is being denied, hidden or otherwise presented in as negative or deceitful fashion as you're implying. Is there something else I can help you with? Did I run over your dog or something? Move along.

    46. Carson Taylor on

      @eXo Yes, I do believe that they used the picture and just manipulated it but the other parts of this piece are obviously real from the Spicy Horse artist. Its not ripped off, just inspired by.

    47. Missing avatar

      Victor on

      Even so, I thought McGee was going to say that Alice was visiting other people's minds... it's Otherlands isn't it XD
      Nice picture.. it's mysterious and makes Alice look minute compared to that monstrosity.

    48. eXoScoriae on

      In regards to the side material, it has obviously been stretched and distorted the achieve the effect in the final image. But if art for this project is as simple as cutting and pasting sections of another artists work into photoshop, stretching it and blurring it around a bit and then just pasting Alice in the center of it, then hell - I can crank out 50 new pieces of "art" for this project.

    49. eXoScoriae on

      And here is part of the source material for the side edges:
      http://meathaus.com/wp-content/images/zdzislaw_beksinski_2.jpg