Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
James Peter wrote:
"You must have [been] working for very little to get this far. I'm honestly amazed you're still going. That you are shows some real tenacity and courage."
What is considered "very little" money? I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just curious how much the people working on the game make, given that he suggests they are "courageous" for not quitting while getting paid what he suggests is "very little." Do most of the team members have other jobs? Or are several people working full-time on this project? Maybe someone could help break it down for me? They got 500K, and then you take out taxes and physical reward-related costs, so how much was left to pay everyone? How many people are there? I believe they already acknowledged that some team members went for significant periods (and in Scott Murphy's case, apparently years) without working a lot (or perhaps at all) on the game.
It's coming up to the 5 year mark with this project soon, so I wanted to leave some thoughts here.
Playing Space Quest IV was one of my earliest experiences using a computer as a child. It came bundled with the first computer our family bought. It was a bonding experience for my family as we played quite a bit of it together. We would talk about how we solved some of the hardest puzzles over the dinner table. It really is one of my favourite childhood memories.
It also started my fascination with computers. I was amazed at all the things they could do. When creative people used them well, remarkable things could happen. I still look back on Space Quest IV as being something pretty incredible. I've since gone on and built a career and then my own business by working with computers. I love my work and I really do think a big part of that comes from the fond memories I have playing your games as a kid. You inspired me to be different and gave me a way to express my creativity.
When I saw you were starting this project on kickstarter, I was really excited. I backed this project with far more money than I have any other project. Even if nothing comes from this project, giving you that money would have been worthwhile.
However the ultimate funding you received wasn't that high and only just over your goal. To take $500,000 spread over 5 years to build a game is pretty much an impossible task. You must have be working for very little to get this far. I'm honestly amazed you're still going. That you are shows some real tenacity and courage.
It sounds like the game is pretty close to completion. Given the personal challenges you've faced, the budget and the time it's taken, it must have been tough to put this game together. But I'd love to see what you do have. If you're able to pull everything together that you've worked on and put it into something you can publish it would be amazing.
Whatever you're able to put together I'd be incredibly happy to play! Either way I just wanted to give you some support and thank you Mark and Scott for the influence you've had on my life.
I'd rather not hear from them. Clearly they have accessed that they are not up to the task to speak to us directly. Just look at what happened with Corey Cole. Come to find out he has no business doing any PR. He just doesn't know how to talk to people. So who knows, maybe it's wise of them.
I rather not push scott murphy too hard. In the end his privacy is his privacy and it has to be respected. However the project updates should be a little more positive energy can only be given when we know what is going on. Now it just feels like a jack in the box surprise and now we need to wait and hope we hear something again in the near future. Knowing the past track I suspect feb/March for a new update.
At this point we aren't demanding step by step update info but we are basically now waiting for what exactly? Things need to be finished sure but you cannot expect positive vibes when there is just negative forecasts. Scott is probably a very nice guy just very unhinged with all the problems he had. It isn't easy and he shouldn't be pressured to do something. I wrote below something what happened to me and I can relate, but it is something he has to work on himself and sadly only scott can get himself out of the pit he fell into sadly emotions aren't easily fixed like cars it took me a year.
It sounds to me like the latest update is saying that Scott Murphy has mental health issues. Also, awhile ago I believe Murphy had tweeted (and deleted?) something that suggested he was suicidal.
If this is the case, then maybe just put the whole thing on hold, or excuse Murphy from having to do any more work, and thank him for his contributions so far. We want him well, and maybe having Murphy officially done with the project (while appreciated and applauded for his contributions) would remove uncertainty and make the game easier to finish.
Tomimt's "car kicking" analogy is perfect.
Also, to me these updates have felt more like attempts to placate or say as little as possible, rather than inform us.
The following is from Chris Pope's late November 2016 project update:
"We have enjoyed working on it, but you can imagine the amount of stress involved here. We hate knowing that we have disappointed so many people. It pains us to know that you all gave us money and we have still yet to deliver the product in this amount of time. We hope you all will stay positive, we need as much positivity thrown our way as possible right now."
They're pleading for support and for people to "stay positive." At this point, I need to hear from Mark Crowe, one of the "Two Guys from Andromeda," whose fame, reputation and past work are why people backed. I no longer trust the updates, which seem to try to be as vague as possible to tide us over every six months. We ought to be given the real and complete story and not just vague BS with a smiley face.
I agree, Thimbleweed Park is one of the best run projects in Kickstarter history!
Also note that even TWP is delayed, although really just a little bit.
Updates do not take lots of time. That's just a ridiculous cop-out excuse. If an admin comes to my desk (project manager) and asks for an update you better damn well believe I can put one together within minutes. Between these guys and the Coles claiming it takes them weeks to put together an update.....well, that explains A LOT!!!
Now getting an update together on physical product that requires input from multiple countries...that's going to take a minimum of 24 hours. Days? Hell no. Not unless you hit a weekend or something.
While I've given up most hope about SpaceVenture, I can't help but to compare it on a project of similar scale, at least what comes to people working with it, Ron Gilbert's Thimbleweed Park. The way the projects have been ran is night and day difference.
Like, with Thimebleweed I have a pretty clear image where the project is at the moment, what is done with it and why. Despite Gilbert has stated many times updates take time, they still do them because they want to keep people in the loop. If they know they don't have the time to do updates, they'll inform of that as well. It's a well oiled and finely organized machine where as SpaceVenture is that old junk car which needs to be kicked a couple of times before it even makes a sound.
I think at this point more transparency would be very appreciated its obvious that people are frustrated and this single up date in November only left more questions than answers.
I've played The Last Guardian, Final Fantasy XV and Frog Fractions 2 in the last month but not SpaceVenture. The ceiling of the Sistine Chapel only took four years so I'm looking forward to something more impressive than that.
Here's what they posted at the end of November:
"Secondly, working out the end of the game has taken longer than expected as well. Some art is still being finalized and the last puzzle mechanics are needing some TLC as well. We also still have some creative death sequences(which we know Space Quest fans love) to work out. We still plan to let you guys(that backed at a high enough level) vote on these along with some artwork voting stuff very soon."
That doesn't sound like they're anywhere near being finished. But in August they said they were aiming for, and "on their way" to having, the game finished by November. Were they being honest in August? Did they truly believe in August that there was a chance they could have the game finished by November?
Does anyone feel like they've been candid and forthright about the state of the game's development?
I worry there are lots of problems behind the scenes. Who the hell even knows what Scott Murphy has done or is doing or will do (if anything) with the game in the future? Should we now think of SpaceVenture as being a "One Guy from Andromeda" project?
If this game does get completed and turns out well, then I think Mark Crowe should get a lot of credit for sticking to it. I don't know the names of all the others working on the game, but I would also give them credit, of course.
Finally, it would have been so nice to have heard from Mark Crowe (and have gotten updates or commentaries from him) every few months or so over the last few years since the game was funded. Just little videos where he talks for 10 minutes. Wouldn't all you Space Quest fans have appreciated that? Would that really have been so hard to do a couple times a year? He could have done the videos with his phone or with a handheld camera, vlogging style. Kids spend more time than that in a week doing snapchat videos.
I believe that backers backed because of Mark and Scott. If Scott is unavailable or is not working on the game right now, then at least let us hear from Mark directly.
Anyway, I do think the game will be finished... but I don't think it'll happen soon. Here's my prediction for the release date: January 2018. Better late than never!
If they get this done, I'll be happy.
@Tom: Well, let me put it this way. The way things are going I wouldn't be too surprised if, in the end, they ARE going to cancel the whole thing. Even if it's going to drag on for a couple of years more before that happens. And IF we get some kind of game eventually, then I have a sneaky suspicion that the quality is going to disappoint a lot of people. Right now I fear the devs are only working towards burning themselves out completely from the stress of trying to achieve something that is as good as impossible with the time and resources they do have. I hope I'm wrong with all of this, but sadly I don't think I am...
Does anyone know if Scott Murphy has actually done any significant work on this game? It seems the only time he is mentioned in updates is to say why he won't be working or hasn't been working. Is there any evidence that he has done anything? I read that the script was pretty much finished. Perhaps he was the writer or one of the primary writers? Murphy is still one of the lead game designers, right?
What's the latest on this project? My enthusiasm still hasn't waned from this project because I never thought something like this would ever happen again.
We will wait for you, Scott and Mark - please, make us proud!
Hi, Kasper. Just to make sure I understand your last message, you're suggesting they just ... give up?
Sigh, I keep checking back here once every year or so - and it's the same sad and ridiculous story. I've worked in the games industry for 10 years and have shipped many games (on time!). I know all the challenges and pitfalls of games development. But still, this is an absolute joke! It's going to end up, best case, at 5 years development for a point-and-click adventure game... done in Unity!?! There is no excuse, this is totally amateurish. Plain and simple. An adventure game is not the most complicated type of game to deliver, and other very similar Kickstarter projects had no such problems. Tex Murphy, Moebius... same time fame and budgets. I knew any Kickstarter is risky buisiness, and would never ask for a refund. But this is shameful. These guys should stop making lame excuses and admit that they totally and utterly failed. Sorry, but that's the truth.. harsh as it might sound. I'll check back around xmas 2017 and see how it goes...
They have apologized a few times for the lack of updates then immediately giving an update on that state of the game. December 17, 2013; June 4, 2014; January 1, 2015 to name a few.
They have mentioned several complications both in terms of development and happenings in their personal lives. September 30, 2015 and the latest are probably the most significant in this regard.
What are the mistakes the team has made and acknowledged?
He's saying he's grateful and using the high risks of crowdfunding for his reasoning.
I understand people are upset and they have every right to be. Despite the setbacks, though, he believes they are making a good faith effort to complete the game. The team has certainly made mistakes and they are well aware of that. They've acknowledged those mistakes and have made it clear they are working as fast as they can to deliver on their promises. It would have been easier to cancel, and they certainly had that option, but they're not doing that. And I, like MisterMorcus, am grateful for that.
To answer MisterMorcus, I don't know the extent of Scott's involvement on the project. I do know the design document has been finished for a long time aside from a few edits here and there. I do not know the reasons for Scott's absence nor is it any of my business, I only wish him the best and that he finds peace. I can confirm, though, that MisterMorcus is right to assume the game will be completed in a reasonable time frame. This is why I do not understand why anyone would ask for a refund after waiting four years. I'm not saying they don't have a right to it, I don't get the point of waiting this long only to bail. We know for certain it won't be even a couple of years given the current progress. So, what's a couple of months?
Being ok with things thus far is perfectly fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However I don't see what "no guarantee" has to do with being upset how things have been handled. The two are not mutual in any way.
I think that the problem is that there is no guarantee a kickstarter project will actually be delivered, and backers get caught up in that without realizing it. I knew that there was a risk of failure when I committed to back this project, as do investors in typical companies. I do not want to sound like I think that it is okay for someone to just let a project fail or just run away with our money or anything, but I'm confident that is not the case here. At the moment I feel like they are still in a reasonable time frame to finish the project. I may become more vocal as time goes on, but currently I am satisfied with their explanations. I would rather Scott Murphy be allowed to finish his role in the project and wait as opposed to letting someone else step in with a potentially different vision.
@mistermorcus: at what point would you lose your patience and express concern? 5 years late? 10 years late? Is your cutoff 20 years late, give or take a couple years? As long as they say are still working on the game and have money left, would you always respond with, "Oh, don't you worry, guys. Life happens. Take your time!"?
What exactly is Scott Murphy's role? What work has he done on the game? Did he write most of the script? Is there any unfinished work (of any kind) he is still responsible for?
My sentiments exactly.
I have never posted a comment here and see that there are a lot of people that are upset over the long wait. I personally do not mind the setbacks and delays. I realize that this has been a long development cycle but no investment is guaranteed to have returns. Considering that this project is still moving forward I am happy to see that this project is still being worked on and that even with the delays they still have enough money in the budget to get the game out eventually.
Andre, you are welcome. Chris is telling me he prefers people to use the Kickstarter PM. So I guess people should try that first. Then if you don't get a response, use the email. If you email though be prepared to send a PM anyway so he can verifying who people are.
Thanks for the info Justin.
A general "below" is no more a valid response to my question than you answering "whatever helps you sleep at night" when I asked you where I personally attacked you. Be more specific if you're going to continue to pick arguments in a public forum. If I had intentions of offending you or anyone else, I would make it clear.
Where have they offered refunds? In which update did they mention refunds? Again, be specific. Prove to me that I'm wrong. I promise I'm okay with it.
Below in the comments. You know people can read, right?
But lets sum this up, shall we? They are OFFERING REFUNDS. Therefor asking for one can in no way be considered robbing. Just another example of you talking out our read end. Also, this isn't an argument. It's fact. This is you being wrong and ridiculous (as usual).
Where did I berate anyone? If you're going to argue and make accusations, back it up.
Don't listen to Tom. He berates anyone with an opinion that differs from his. If a refund is what you are after then that's not unreasonable. In fact, they offered me one a few months ago but I turned it down. Contact Chris Pope directly.
They completely failed with their ETA therefore they already broke the agreement on their end. Robbing? Total garbage nonsense.
Christopher, I do not understand why you would ask for a refund this late in development. It is because the game has been delayed? How much did you pledge for this project? If you're a lower tier backer, I would say a refund would be fine since it doesn't have much impact on the already tight budget. However, if you're a higher tier backer, you would essentially be robbing them of money that has already been budgeted into the game.
Asked for a refund a few weeks ago. Haven't heard anything back yet. Guessing it's unlikely...
Came back to see a light at the end of the tunnel for this game, only to be given an excuse yet again for the delay and once again It's Murphy related. SMH. Maybe Mr.Murphy need to step away from project to recoup or get in a right frame of mind and meanwhile find a replacement to finish this project which is now basically 4 years running. This is longest unfulfilled project in my list. At this point I am ok with One guy from Andromeda.
Still wondering if I wil ever hold the big box of the game in my hands?
Got my Double Fine physical goods today! This is now my oldest, unfulfilled Kickstarter.
But this is our room, and we like an audience. :)
Hey fun boys, get a room!
That's not an answer.
Wow. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Anyway, I'm sure people are sick of this by now. Just too polite to tell us off.
Anyone interested in a betting pool as to when this game will be released?
When did I personally attack you?
@Tom - cool story bro! But after your personal attacks and trash talking about my kid...you can go get bent for all I care. Why would I talk on the phone with someone who is nothing but garbage? Makes zero sense. So I'll just leave this here again and hopefully it sinks in:
And hopefully in the future you'll learn to leave people alone when they simply have their own opinion and it doesn't match your almighty way of thinking. You're not as important as you seem to think you are Mr. Baldy.
@Justin: I'm not sure what you're talking about. My last post here was only hours after yours, before Thanksgiving. I'm not sure how my response somehow took any more time away from my family than it did yours.
My joke about you marrying off your daughter was referring to your hilariously awkward comparison between game development and having a child (November 4). You said she was talking about marriage. Given that you said she wasn't even a thought when this campaign launched, she would only be two, maybe three. I was just making fun of how weird you are to offer that information to complete strangers.
If you know where to find what I look like, you certainly know how to get in touch with me. The offer is still on the table to talk. I would hope you would at least have some idea who I am and why I can say with certainty that everything is fine with this project.
I don't even know what you're on about or why you're here. You attacked me in a response the other day when the update dropped after I had not responded to you in weeks, and the only reason I responded directly to you then was because you attempted to get my attention several times when I was responding to others. Communication ended between us August when I took my ball and went home. Everything since has been a result of you picking at scabs and your inability to just let things go. It's like you only come here when you're drunk.
I could go on about how you're wrong for calling me garbage (November 8) or a troll (August 26) for simply explaining why certain opinions were not correct and how you're just here to project your deep "seeded" problems (August 26) onto me, but you'll have to excuse me, I just spent 15 minutes writing a response on here and my family is probably wondering where I am.
@Tom - sorry, clearly unlike yourself I have a life with family so I wasn't around since I spent the holiday with them. Did you enjoy gobbling down all those Snickers instead of turkey?
Seriously dude, eat a Snickers. Grow some hair. Learn to love yourself again. Even you have to realize that when you talk crap about someones kids....you're the garbage of bunch.
I feel much... older than when this started.
I honestly find the update a bit depressing. Mostly because it contradicts everything they have been saying the past months. Anyone who has lost a parent that they are really close to would have tremendous emotional and psychological back blow. How do I know this? Because what scot wrote a year ago was exactly what happened with my father except it was brain cancer and within a few weeks he passed away. During that time I was mostly there to help him take care of it. Seeing someone have temper tantrums and mobility problems and wanting to do things with all the physical and emotional handicaps is no fun whatsoever.
When he passed away I landed in a 9 month pit where I was not able to function properly whatsoever. It was a combination of stress and being exhausted emotionally and physically from having to do so much for him. It wasn't a bad thing it was something I had to do and I am glad that I did. Scot doing what he did was nothing what a good son would have done in his place. And for that I applaud him.
However this brings the issue that I have with all I am seeing from Space venture. First of all its the communication. We were told that November 2016 was flat-out possible and that scot was back on track. While I didn't pay much attention to spaceventure anymore since I do trust it to be released I was eagerly awaiting the release of this game.
Now after year and a half later we are basically back to square 1. We get told a week before release that scot had more problems and while that is fine this isn't something that came falling down like a anvil on everyone this has been a problem for months. While I respect scot's privacy I am not asking to know what is going on with him, I am asking for clarity. It is about expectation management. I rather be told in the previous update that there were problems.
To me from an It perspective reading about suddenly being romped with bugs cause people were adding more content to the event driven engine concerned me a lot. Because it meant that people were not working in unison and breaking one another's game screen because of changes they made.
The Voice Actors strike sounds like it could be within weeks resolved.
This entire update just left me a bit disappointed because while it says on multiple panels that there are not the reasons why they are being delayed it is being presented as such.
We know no release date, we know nothing except that the developers deemed it fit to hide 2 problems that weren't something you just figured out a few days ago. And that is the only thing I am disappointed about.
I still am rooting for this project but I rather be critical than just passively sit back in this entire debate. I still like the Two guys and I know the past reputation of scot but the thing is this is what makes scot scot. We cannot judge him or be annoyed about it because it is a part of who he is and also a reason why the game has so many of the things we enjoy.
I just hope transparency comes back to this project that is all I ask. I don't care about the bad news, but it does allow the backers to help where they can from bug testing to fixing. I already offered once to help with some coding if necessary. That offer will always stand because bugfixing is a generic problem at times.
Oh, surprise. It's Mr. Predictable with another saucy witticism. (Don't tell him his Snickers joke is lame, guys. He'll just try to sugarcoat it and eat that too.)
I'm still waiting on you to message me so we can set up that call.
@Tom - Get over it. Learn to enjoy your Snickers! And hopefully in the future you'll learn to leave people alone when they simply have their own opinion and it doesn't match your almighty way of thinking. You're not as important as you seem to think you are Mr. Baldy.
Such is life. I'm happy to wait for as long as it takes.