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SpaceVenture 2: The Search for Scott
LMAO!!! That actually falls in line with something they would do. Weren't the Two Guys held against their will by ScumSoft or something?
6 years soon ;-)
I hear the working title for the sequel is SpaceVenture 2: The Search for Scott.
I kid, I kid.
From reading Scott Murphy's past interviews, where he complains about nearly everyone and everything, it seems some kind of drama this time around was inevitable.
I feel badly for Mark Crowe, since it seems like so much is falling on his shoulders. Luckily Mark is a super talented and capable person.
I still hope that, whenever this game is done, many in the adventure game fan community will rally behind this project and help drum up excitement for it and make sure everyone knows about it. I hope the game is great and fun, with many clever, inspired moments, and I hope it is polished.
As for Scott Murphy, it's never too late for him to make an appearance in an update video and talk about his work. Who knows how much he worked on this game? I think people would welcome him back. I mean, sure, it would have been great to have heard from him years ago, but it's better late than never. It would be disappointing if he never communicates with backers again.
The first kickstarter project I backed... and still open. I wish there would more frequent updates.
And somehow this reminds me of Heart of Darkness and Duke Nukem Forever...
I worked in the industry and heard Scott Murphy was not a great person.
Still the nostalgia sucked me in.
Sucks that they've ballsed up delivering the game but at least i get the comments drama.
You’re one silly goose.
They have an obligation to finish the game and deliver the rewards. No excuses will be tolerated. I would be angry if they failed to meet their responsibility. Failure to deliver the goods would not only be an insult to the people who collectively gave them hundreds of thousands of dollars, but it would also irreparably harm their reputations as game developers/designers and would all but ensure that no major publisher would work with them on a new Two Guys adventure game in the future.
Also, has this truly been a "Two Guys" game? It seems that several friends and acquaintances of Scott Murphy have no idea about his current whereabouts. How long did Scott Murphy actually work on this game? I hope we get some answers about Scott Murphy's role in the next update. Scott Murphy's and Mark Crowe's involvement are probably the reason why many of us came to this Kickstarter in the first place.
I hope they are prepared to deliver all rewards in a timely fashion and don't stiff backers like the Kickstarter for Quest for Infamy (Infamous Quests amateur/fan game) reportedly has. Dishonest scammer Kickstarters give other project creators a bad name and set a bad precedent. Never let the lazy, dishonest creators and poorly-run projects be seen as the norm.
At some point you all need to ask yourselves what your pledge means to you. I only put a few hundred in on the project. While I’m still optimistic the game will eventually see release, if they were to come out today and cancel the game, I would say it sucks for them since they obviously put a lot of effort into it and move on with my life. A few hundred bucks isn’t worth getting worked up about something that's beyond our control.
If you choose anger, that's your prerogative. I just hope this will serve as a lesson to never put more into anything than you're willing to part with.
I hope it is clear to everybody that backing something on KS is not at all the same as buying a finished product. There is always going to be a very real risk that the project will fail. If this had been a young, inexperienced - but passionate - team, living their dream trying to make the game they burn to make...but failing in the end... that I would have no problem with! In fact that is one of the things I think KS is for - helping people like that with projects that they can't find funding for in the established game industry (perhaps for good reasons). But here we're talking about very grown-up adults, who supposedly have been doing this for a long, long time. Their failure at EVERYTHING - from development, planning, project management... even communication. That is simply unacceptable, and does indeed smell like a huge scam. Very unhappy and angry with these two guys....
Actually according to Kickstarter terms, all they'd have to do to "get out" is to post an update that explains one of the following:
"They post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
They work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a time frame that’s communicated to backers;
They’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised"
And boom just like that no lawsuit. So yes it is completely up the the developer.
"Before you demonize publishers..."
I wasn't demonizing them, it makes sense that they'd want their money back.
I can see that you're triggered. I doubt anything I say will change your mind.
Same here, I no longer back software projects. I haven't gotten screwed on anything else and between my wife and I we've backed hundreds of things.
Unfortunately I believe the are only legally required to "try". They probably have enough assets to prove that and are therefore off the hook :(
“They have a legal obligation to deliver a product.”
No, they don’t. A moral obligation, absolutely, but they are by no means legally obligated to deliver anything beyond their efforts in the updates. Suppose you were to take a class action, though; You would have to file in Eugene. The legal and travel fees alone would far outweigh your pledge.
Your only option is to hope the game eventually comes out. You can continue venting your frustrations here, but people have been doing that for a couple years now and the game still isn’t out, so take from that what you will.
Hehe Erick, yeah.
I back board games now and haven't been disappointed yet.
Sadly, you're right. This project (and a couple others) are the reason I stopped backing projects on Kickstarter. Kickstarter is a great idea with, unfortunately, too little accountability where backers can be easily taken advantage of.
Personally, I just want the few remaining dead weight projects finished so I can walk away from this site for good. This project being, by far, the worst offender.
"Publishers create deadlines to make sure they will make a profit."
As I listed, finances are only one of the problems. Before you demonize publishers, you should realize that every software company has deadlines; regardless if publishers are involved.
"This game is (most likely) beyond it's Kickstarter income. It is now relying on the fortitude of the developers to complete it. They are (probably) working other jobs for a personal income."
Obviously. Their inability to get organized earlier has created this problem. This is why I specifically suggested they get a project manager and/or SCRUM master to organize and track their development process because they clearly have nothing in place.
Instead, we have some backers rushing to their defense wanting to sprinkle them with "encouragement" to solve the issue.
"Don't you think that they already know it's late?"
And yet, they are not taking appropriate measures to correct the problem.
"You speak of accountability, it looks to me like they are responsible enough to keep working on it no matter what the circumstance. Coming here just to complain isn't going to speed up the development, but it might discourage the developer."
Responsible enough?? They have a legal obligation to deliver a product or they can be sued for the entirety of funds that they have likely already been spent. Frankly, they're lucky there has been so much patience from backers to abuse. The situation is a recipe for disaster at this point because the only obligation they have is to deliver SOMETHING; regardless of quality.
"Obviously I don't mean you should give them a pass, but after you've made your point, shouldn't you move on? Maybe even encourage?"
No. I don't encourage or reward bad behavior.
You go Justin.
Seriously this kickstarter is indefensible. It deserves all the disparaging comments we can come up with. My money went to line the pockets of has beens that took advantage of adventure gamers' nostalgia.
I backed a handful of the adventure game resurgence kickstarters: Jane Jensen. Obduction. Tex Murphy. Dreamfall. All have come and gone. Nearly all created after this kickstarter and all have come out, many long long ago.
This was just a scam on the level of Truth and Trolls.
Classic Justin. So modest.
I never said I was smart. You did. So...thanks!
Oh, c'mon now, Justin. Don't be shy. How did you get so smart? When did you realize you were such a good person? Inquiring minds want to know.
Enjoy that marry go round you're on buddy! You seem to be having fun. Grab a snickers while you're ridding around.
Around and around he goes, when will he stop? Hell even he don't know!
"There is only one cyber stalker here low enough to post personal info that got deleted by KS admins."
Referring to you by your first and last name isn't a crime. I contacted Kickstarter to have that message deleted, btw. Plot twist.
Justin, how does it feel to know so much? I mean, always posting on Kickstarter about how smart you are must be exhausting since the rest of us are clearly bunch of dummies and always wrong. I bet it's lonely at the top.
"...to waste your afternoon with us Kickstarter lowlifes..."
Correction, just one. There is only one cyber stalker here low enough to post personal info that got deleted by KS admins.
I can get you more translations if you need them.
"I have no idea why you're going off on this tangent"
Because you literally created the tangent then continued to make incorrect statements about said tangent.
I know reading is hard but come on, not THAT hard.
"The problem with that is in an age of online notifications, your stalking didn't go unnoticed. I also can see your online social happenings because you left a trail."
How is this any better or worse than me simply checking your credentials on MobyGames?
I have no idea why you're going off on this tangent but I'm flattered you care enough to waste your afternoon with us Kickstarter lowlifes, being the educational powerhouse you believe yourself to be and all.
I don't have to engage in conversation with you to gauge how you converse. How quickly you forget that you cyber stalked me. The problem with that is in an age of online notifications, your stalking didn't go unnoticed. I also can see your online social happenings because you left a trail.
The difference between you and me though is I'm not low enough to post your stuff here.
So NO, you're wrong, as always.
What I do have however is 576 comments from you here on Kickstarter. Well, minus all the deleted ones of course by Kickstarter Admins. Let's not forget about those!!! That would be enough by itself but it's not what I'm going by.
Something else you were wrong about:
"You are using your comments and behavior as a standard of measurement."
Again, nope. I literally stated "the rest of us."
“It certainly isn't specific to this comment section or Kickstarter.”
Yes, it is. Your only frame of reference is Kickstarter. We’ve never engaged in any sort of conversation elsewhere.
Nope, that's not what that means at all. It certainly isn't specific to this comment section or Kickstarter as you stated. That's where you failed.....yet again.
Don't worry, some day!
"Don't worry. Some day you'll get there. Some day you'll be using big boy words along with the rest of us."
You are using your comments and behavior as a standard of measurement. Not sure how else that could be interpreted unless you don't understand your own argument.
And people are in no way obligated to be positive or encouraging. Especially since you can't even state with confidence that they are reading these comments. So that goes right back at ya buddy!
Metric? Not at all. That has absolutely nothing to do with what was said. But you tell yourself whatever you need to big guy. Whatever makes you feel like a boss.
If you can recall I also said that you should by all means state your opinion, just try to be a broken record.
I'm in no way obligated to write you a list. And even if I did, it wouldn't give you any greater understanding of my position. I've already laid it out in plain English
It's your choice to be antagonistic, perhaps one day you'll change your mind. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
If Kickstarter is your metric for intellectual prowess, I'm not sure much more needs to be said here.
Another fail to add to your list. That is what happens when you cherry pick.
"How about you..."
That is literally a "request for response" statement. Request.... "an act of asking politely or formally for something."
Don't worry. Some day you'll get there. Some day you'll be using big boy words along with the rest of us.
Sentence one: "You're the expert at telling people what they should and shouldn't do."
Sentence two: "Make the list."
You're the expert at telling people what they should and shouldn't do. You're the one telling people what kind of comments are good and bad so by all means, make the list buddy.
Or, just keep deflecting because you can't actually backup the things you say. That works too.
Sounds like a task for you. After all you seem to be an expert at wasting time.
Because encouraging them is going to speed it up? LMAO!!! How about you write out a full list for us to look at showing what complaining will do versus what encouraging will do. That should be a good waste of time.
You've jumped to a false conclusion. It's because of the impact of excessive delays that I posted that.
Publishers create deadlines to make sure they will make a profit. This game is (most likely) beyond it's Kickstarter income. It is now relying on the fortitude of the developers to complete it. They are (probably) working other jobs for a personal income.
Don't you think that they already know it's late?
You speak of accountability, it looks to me like they are responsible enough to keep working on it no matter what the circumstance. Coming here just to complain isn't going to speed up the development, but it might discourage the developer.
Obviously I don't mean you should give them a pass, but after you've made your point, shouldn't you move on? Maybe even encourage?
"I don't think there is anything to be done to make this go any faster."
Faster?! In what universe is 5 years LATE considered "fast"? Are you sane? Do I really need to remind you that Two Guys were the ones that created this delivery date?
"I don't think there's any reason to be negative towards them. From the updates we can tell that it's making progress. And does it really matter how late it is?"
There is absolutely every reason to be negative. The "progress" you mention is inadequate at this stage. It certainly matters how late because we are way beyond a reasonable delay with no end in sight. As you pointed out yourself, there is no way they still have any Kickstarter money left. How long do you think that boat can sail? Why do you think there are deadlines for software development in the first place? Excessive delays lead to numerous issues including financial, maintaining the team, consistency, momentum, passion, morale, etc.
"Some people (and their friends) like to stir up trouble around here and it's really uncalled for, Space Venture isn't a three hour tour. So relax and enjoy the trip."
What exactly are you even getting at here? Because it reads as though you're accusing me of simply stirring up trouble. Even though my issue is warranted and recommendation sound, you would dismiss it. Ridiculous.
Instead, it seems to me that some people like to defend the indefensible against all reason. You've made it clear that you do not think there should be any accountability and that that you have no understanding nor care of the impact excessive delays have on development. I find that position to be just as damaging as those that may just be stirring up trouble.
I wonder if they ever got their voicemail message. If not are they getting a refund?
Damn there were backers at $5000+.
Hell, I'll be surprised if I actually get the bronze Buckazoid. Looking at this Kickstart reminds me of when I was young, foolish & learned nothing from watching The Producers.
Gabe has set enough money back that Valve can keep its current work force on salary for 20 years without earning a dime.
Wow, Steam is really kicking some major butt! They're getting huge!
I do think SpaceVenture being released will give it SOME coverage, as it has been in the works for so long and it is a game by former Sierra devs. But the only way it will get wider coverage beyond a couple of lines of "who would have thunk it's finally out" snippets is, that is a genuinely good game. If it's just another been there, done that type of an adventure game, then it will get exactly the same coverage as your standard low budget indie game: none.
I'm less concerned about when the game will come out and more concerned with how it will get enough attention in a very crowded market when it does release. Spaceventure is going to need a quite a bit of help from social media, backers, and especially positive reviews from gaming press when it releases.
Two Summer Olympic Games and two Winter Olympics Games.
New games released on Steam per year based on steamspy (https://steamspy.com/year/2012):
2012 - 394
2013 - 564
2014 - 1771
2015 - 2963
2016 - 5001
2017 - 7615