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Super Dungeon Explore, the chibi board game, returns with LEGENDS — featuring a new starter box, campaign play, and RPG action!
Super Dungeon Explore, the chibi board game, returns with LEGENDS — featuring a new starter box, campaign play, and RPG action!
6,611 backers pledged $1,290,522 to help bring this project to life.

Breaking Radio Silence

Posted by Soda Pop Miniatures (Creator)
123 likes

February 18, 2019

Boise, ID.

Ninja Division Company Update

Overview

The purpose of this update is to provide both our fans and partners with an update on Ninja Division’s current company status, the status of our outstanding projects, and restate our commitment to the continuation of our popular brands.

Operations

Staff

It broke our hearts to let the majority of our incredible staff go at the end of 2018. Their determination in the face of company adversity and their passion for our products kept us going. We look forward to seeing what they do next. Ninja Division is currently staffed by its three owners (who are off salary) and a sales manager who continue to work towards the successful reorganization of Ninja Division and pursue Kickstarter fulfillment options. 

Communication

With staff layoffs, we are unable to individually respond to all email and social media posts we receive, and our time is best spent pursuing all available options for the continuance of the brands we all love. 

External Partnerships - Licensors

Ninja Division would like to request that backers from all of our outstanding projects direct your questions and inquiries to us. We understand we have not been able to maintain communications with the regularity or presence that communities and projects like this desire, and that we have limited availability while we work on solutions, but the ownership of these projects lies with us. Our outside partners are not able to service refunds, returns, or ship your product. 

Kickstarter Updates

Super Dungeon

As part of the ongoing development process for Super Dungeon and to satisfy both company and backer expectations of quality, the Super Dungeon Kickstarter project was restructured as below:

  1. The 2nd Edition product which was intended to be a single boxed game with only incremental changes would need to be broken out into three distinct products: Super Dungeon Explore, Super Dungeon Arcade, Super Dungeon Pet Parade.
  2. The Super Dungeon Legends expansion could not meet quality expectations as an expansion and was turned into a standalone product. Requiring significant additional development.
  3. The smaller single expansions would all require redevelopment to be useable with the new changes to the game for the above products.

This restructuring of the project increased development time, development costs, manufacturing costs, and future shipping costs. 

Super Dungeon then suffered an additional delay in March 2017 when the lead designer for Super Dungeon developed health problems which cut work availability for over six months. To soften the impact, Ninja Division hired a new lead designer in August of 2017 to help continue Super Dungeon’s development.

As of now, Super Dungeon is 95% complete and production ready, requiring only finalization and layout of the Legends core game. 

Relic Knights

The Relic Knights 2nd Edition core rules are completely developed. The 2nd Edition Starter Set has been manufactured. However, Ninja Division does not currently have the funds to finish assembly and purchase the finalized product from the manufacturer. 

The 2nd Edition Rulebook and Darkspace Calamity Upgrade deck are laid out and ready for production. The Void Break sourcebook has had unit profiles written in preparation of playtesting. Fiction and art were in advanced stages before the company’s status required development to be paused. All sculpts, including non-Kickstarter Void Break units, are sculpted and ready for production with the exception of Relic Knight Zineda.  

Starfinder Masterclass

The masterclass project is highly technical, using a proprietary manufacturing technology from our manufacturing partners. Difficulties and delays in getting a quality product and re-engineering of sculpting to meet these demands delayed the initial waves of releases. 

These difficulties and delays, in part with stretched company finances, led to us to pause manufacturing to find a solution to meet the financial obligation to release more miniatures. To date, Ninja Division has manufactured and delivered over 28,000 miniatures to backers but has a great many more to complete.  All sculpts are fully re-engineered and ready for production.

Way of the Fighter

All game specific products for Way of the Fighter have been fulfilled. Only models, which are not required for gameplay, are outstanding. Production of all non-Super Dungeon crossover miniatures is 50% complete. All remaining sculpts are complete and ready for production.

Financial Disclosure

The Cost Overrun chart below illustrates the revenue collected by Ninja Division through crowdsourced funding, the costs Ninja Division has spent to date, and the total costs required for completion of the entire project through to delivery.

Spend by Project

Below is break down of how funds were spent towards the creation of each project over the course of its current development lifecycle. 

Total Fees: Includes fees charged by Kickstarter and the merchant account processor.

Project Development: This includes staff and contractor costs for art, sculpting, writing, graphic design, etc.

Overhead Payroll: Includes payroll for management, marketing, sales, and operations staff.

Overhead Expenses:  Includes facilities leasing, marketing costs, office supplies, etc.

Royalties: Royalties paid to licensors and/or developers.

Production: Includes tooling and production costs for KS rewards.

Fulfillment:  Includes freight shipping and order handling.

Questions and Answers

Over the past months, we have received many questions and want to provide answers to the most common ones we hear that were not addressed above.

Q: What is the relationship between Soda Pop Miniatures and Ninja Division Publishing?

Soda Pop Miniatures is an IP Holding Company that owns the Super Dungeon, Relic Knights, and Takoashi University brands. Soda Pop granted Ninja Division Publishing license rights to develop and publish tabletop games for these brands and use its mark in relation to relevant marketing and social outreach.

Q: Why did you start new Kickstarters before completing outstanding projects?

As studio personnel became free they needed to be moved to new projects. At the time, while projects had been delayed development was still moving at a satisfactory pace and current budgets and projections showed that the new projects were achievable. 

Q: Why did you publish other games before completing outstanding projects?

Ninja Division’s portfolio is a mix of internally developed crowdsourced products, internally developed self-funded products, and published 3rd party products in order to have a robust catalog to keep the company moving forward and growing. Development on these products starts months or years ahead of release and by independent teams, thus they were in development prior to and alongside crowdsourced products. Games that had been in development were released as planned. 

Q: Is Ninja Division bankrupt/out of business?

No. Ninja Division continues to operate and pursue all available avenues to continue all our brands and provide backers with their rewards. 

Q: Will I receive my rewards? 

We have not given up. Every day we work towards the goal of delivering backers rewards and the revitalization of the brands and products we have spent a decade creating.

Q: Is there anything backers can do to help?

We respect and thank the fans and hopeful backers who have stepped into the gaps of communication, kept an open mind and worked with us to tamp out wild speculation and overly negative and inappropriate threats and hostility. We are all in the same place as you, eager to see a solution, and eager to find a way forward. 

Continue to play! We have provided access to PDF and digital content for players to play games using your existing collections from some of our key Kickstarters. A healthy understanding of our current rules, some in-house gaming, and a little time with your clubs and game stores goes a long way to foster interest and support while we work to get things moving.  

Looking Ahead

Despite our current difficulties, Ninja Division continues to doggedly pursue any and all avenues we can to get products to backers and bring new products to market featuring the brands our customers love. To that end, we are currently working under consultation to reorganize Ninja Division in order to better position it for success and secure investment. 

As we proceed with our reorganization we have had partners and fans with operational, business, and financial acumen help us tremendously. If you have a professional skill set and passion in those areas, we would encourage you to reach out as we are working across various stages of consultation to repair components of our operation. As a bicameral entity, our business has sometimes been separated from our creative skill sets, and this realization makes us not too proud to seek professional assistance to ensure a stable and positive growth into the future. 

Once we have concrete information regarding the company, new production, and fulfillment we will post another update. We thank you for taking the time to read through this lengthy announcement, as well as your continued patience.

Go Ninja Go!

Typhoon, Kevin Behan, and 121 more people like this update.

Comments

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    1. Greyskull
      Superbacker
      3 days ago

      @Bruce Gray. There is no prove me wrong... it is totally in the update... you won’t get a single dime....

    2. Sluffmo
      Superbacker
      on

      Seriously, thanks for the update!

      That said, I've run 50-80 person development teams for years and it makes no sense that you are working on these in parallel. If you have three people and three projects that take three man months each to complete, you don't split the work up and take three months to get them all out. You put all three people on one at a time and deliver a project every month. You still take three months to get them all out, but you deliver value to your customers faster.

      Also, if this project is 95% complete then just start production. Honestly, there isn't a person on here who wouldn't take 95% if that meant at least getting the minis. You can send us the legends portion if and when you are done.

    3. Bruce Gray
      Superbacker
      on

      My basic comment is the same as my basic comment has been for at least the last few =yeears=. I no longer believe that I will ever see Super Dungeon Explore Legends in my hands. Ever. It would be nice to get my pledge money back, but I don't believe I have any chance of that, either. Prove me wrong.

    4. Robert Silvester on

      I'd love to believe that, SPM/ND. But "Good news soon!" has been your stock line for at least a year now whenever you briefly surface to address the subject of tangible progress.

      I'm mostly just numb and indifferent at this point. Your words have zero weight at this point. You've blown smoke at us for the better part of two year, always promising to do better, followed by an immediate return to silence, omission, and outright lying. I could go down the list of how you've systematically squandered nearly all backer/customer faith and good will since mid 2017, but I've better things to do than write yet another in-depth essay.

      Suffice to say I remain thoroughly underwhelmed by this temporary resumption of communication. It only happened because Archon broke THEIR silence. Confirming information that we had already extrapolated from multiple other sources is hardly transparency, and admitting to your failures when all attempts at hiding them have failed is not bravery.

      You want to be applauded for your efforts? You want our trust and patience and warm fuzzies? You're going to have to actually earn them, by deeds, not words. And you're going to have to do that continually, without breaking faith, probably for years, until you're even remotely back in the place SPM/ND was in 2016.

      I said pretty much the same thing a year ago. That you were in a deep hole, and that there were no shortcuts for climbing back out. And since then, the hole only seems to have gotten deeper. It's great that you've apparently decided to stop digging, but that's merely the first step. Let's not throw a party until you can at least see daylight again.

    5. Janos on

      Thanks for posting again, but who exactly is writing here on behalf of SPM?

    6. Soda Pop Miniatures 7-time creator on

      I must personally apologize about our long silence -
      The issues surrounding our finance side hitting a wall last year sent us into a scramble to get help. With so much uncertaintly, we (wrongly) kept mum on it to not inspire panic or cause problems that would interfere with our ability to lock down the financial tools we needed to continue production and fulfillment. We had a very good turn of events in September, and through December were on a track to extensive support that would have had a very Merry Christmas message from us - and then it got shot out from underneath us at the (0) hour. I wont tell you all what that felt like, but we were numb and scared. We have rallied here at the start of the year, and put a hard plan into action, working to secure new interest and opportunity, and it is starting to pay off - meaning, we hope to have a solution shortly, and be able to share how we are proceeding with all projects and deliverables. SDE is our heart and soul, there is no reason to have this out of the market, and we are being very creative, but it is our daily priority to get the understructure in place, and prevent something like this from happening again - we love you all, we continue to fight

    7. Kenna
      Superbacker
      on

      Very nice update, thank you for that. I still have a lot of faith in you but the extremely long period of silence was disheartening. After being completely disregarded by other leaders of failed kickstarters, I would much rather see someone approach things with this level of honestly, as opposed to leaving us hanging for all eternity. I wish you the best of luck and hold out hope that I will see my pledges someday.

    8. Joshua Blitzstein on

      Are you planning on fulfilling late pledges made through your website? In addition to backing on KS I later added to my order the bosses of legend.

    9. Joseph Fife on

      @Paul Gyugyi, I think it had more to do with the major complaint of FK being that there was too much in it than that they were copying CMoN, but I do see what you mean.

    10. Missing avatar

      Paul Gyugyi
      Superbacker
      on

      @Joseph Fife. Yes, I know. I have the pets from FK. But their competitor announced a Pet boxed expansion in a Nov 2015 KS a few months before ND's great-refactoring that. to most people's bewilderment, also included a boxed pet expansion.

    11. James Reuterskiold on

      So... Rail Raiders is conspicuously absent from the charts. I know that primary fulfillment was more or less resolved, but I'd been operating on the understanding that replacements for damaged components, as well as for those few people who seem to have not received ANYTHING yet, had simply been placed on the back-burner. Have hands been washed of that whole affair, or can I keep my dreams of an un-crushed lock box on life support a little longer?

    12. Ben Moss on

      Thanks :) Good things to know.

    13. Arashi on

      Thank you for the very open update. I hope, once the projects are complete, we can get theses games back in the front. I'm still painting minis, and I have new friends playing Super Dungeon all the time. Keep at it!

    14. Matt Slucas
      Superbacker
      on

      I found the post below quite interesting, as well as its following comments. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/super-dungeon-explore-legends/posts/2144515

    15. Joseph Fife on

      @Paul Gyugyi, SDE had pets in FK, prior to AQ getting them

    16. BERNARD cyrille on

      I am very disappointed, I have been waiting for more than 2 years, I invested in other kickstarter in relation to super dungeon explores and still nothing. For my part, I do not invest anything in the future kickstarter related to ninja division until I have received the kickstarters already invested.
      thank you

    17. Eric Robichaud on

      @Robert Silvester - I know that there was a Frostbyte warband (orcs) included with the KS, but they also had pre-orders for a number of other Frostbyte products (level box - Lich Lord's lair or something, new tiles, new boss) that were never revealed, but I assumed were still developed, just not manufactured? I wonder if those will be lost like all the rest...

    18. Daniel
      Superbacker
      on

      @Greg B: Looking at you list the numbers like that, it raises the question of why they asked for 80k when royalties (to themselves, no less, which means there shouldn't have been ANY unforeseen expenses in that regard) are over 110k... Honestly, I'm surprised any of them can find work elsewhere with something like this on their CV...

    19. Janos on

      Thanks for communicating again. I am looking forward to a comprehensible business strategy to substantiate your intention to delivering the rewards.

    20. Missing avatar

      Paul Gyugyi
      Superbacker
      on

      @creamyjeremy Surprisingly, breaking it into smaller sets is one thing I *don't* fault ND for. Looking at the competition (AQ) releasing many smaller-sized ($50) sets (incl. a pet expansion), it was clearly a strategy that was working for them. There was no room on the local game store shelves for a big-box. ND had to split SDE to be competitive. But yeah, Pet Parade was foolish attempt at copying the competition, instead of focusing (the Pet Parade rules were cool, though).

    21. Greg B
      Superbacker
      on

      Original goal $ 80,000.00
      Total raised $1,290,522.00

      Total fees 7.0% $ 90,336.54
      Project Development 46.2% $ 596,221.16
      Overhead-Payroll 22.2% $ 286,495.88
      Overhead-Expenses 15.9% $ 205,193.00
      Royalties 8.7% $ 112,275.41

    22. creamyjeremy on

      Instead of 1 majors product and 1 expansion to fit the existing system, you decide to make 4 major products and redesign the entire history of the game while staying within budget? All I wanted was new models, game boards, some rule tweeks, and a simple expansion to make it more RPG..... Also, WHY PET PARADE?

    23. AgntOrenge
      Superbacker
      on

      And all I wanted was a Yowlbear.

    24. Jared Stovell
      Superbacker
      on

      Loads of toxic, but finally some closure of sorts. Cutting communication really hurt your standing more than just taking the brunt of comments. As some famous person once said. The internet has potential to be good.... but there’s loads of bad as well.

    25. Missing avatar

      stuart on

      Any comment on today's announcement by Jasco Games of one of the 5 owners of Ninja division, Kai Nesbit, now working for them?

    26. Robert Silvester on

      @Eric Robichaud: It is part of the KS, though, listed right there in the campaign.

      As it's a warband, and they showed us the renders years ago, it's presumably completely sculpted and ready to send to the manufacturer, barring whatever tweaks on the cards are needed, as that ties to the rules rewrite.

      But that just means it's as complete as the rest of the project. Realistically, I don't see how or why'd they would push this particular item out ahead of the rest, or the core box at minimum. It's an expansion for a base game that doesn't exist.

    27. Steve (Smoth) Smith on

      Awesome! Thanks for the update!

      Who do I contact to update my address on orders in your site related to ks?

    28. Eric Robichaud on

      Going to ask this here even though there is a 0% chance I'll get an answer from anyone in-the-know but I have to try:

      I know the Frostbyte Reach expansion is not part of this KS, but in terms of percentage can anyone tell me how close it is/was to being completed?

    29. queerchameleon
      Superbacker
      on

      An taking late pledges knowing full well you couldn’t provide ? How about shipping fees?

    30. Yip "Korhil" Ng
      Superbacker
      on

      Backer# 124 (why, WHY?), 130 Pledge + 200 Blazing Soul Completionist + postage
      At least it's news. Probably to cover their arse incase we backers cry foul and say "we weren't updated". But, it's news.

    31. Kirk Grentzenberg
      Superbacker
      on

      More misdirection and excuses. WE DON’T TRUST YOU ANYMORE. THIEVES.

    32. Jim Todd
      Superbacker
      on

      Any company rescuing them would be stupid unless as part of the deal ALL management gets fired.

    33. Missing avatar

      Rainer Woreck on

      Backer Number 2,595. AU$420.00 + postage.

    34. Missing avatar

      Rainer Woreck on

      AU$420 which doesn't include postage. That's a huge amount to lose to a scummy company.

      None of what was said feels like it's directed towards the customers.
      Anything that might be is shot down in later segments. (Contact us but we wont respond).

      I have lost all interest in this product a long time ago due to this poor handling of everything. You've failed to provide me with the product I paid for, not offered a possible substitute of equivalent value nor given me my legal right to refund. Thieves.

    35. Missing avatar

      Tommy on

      I don't care about your excuses. I want my money.

    36. Melanikus on

      I hope that this is a sign that things might be getting back on track. I am willing to be patient and am pleased that someone has come back to us about the situation.

    37. eWave on

      This update raises more questions than it answers, and given Ninja Division's track record probably shouldn't be taken at face value. Hell, it took backers less then a day to point out all the things left out or that don't make sense (collected shipping fees, pre-orders on the store, "overhead" costs, ...).
      If anything the few numbers provided confirm what many of us already guessed: "creative" accounting, very bad project management and clear misuse of funds (Kickstarter money used for things other than the related project).
      .
      Honestly, I think the pressure is starting to increase. By a lot. My guess is that Archon going public about the Starfinder miniatures mess is what prompted this update. The timing is just too convenient. IDW is probably also starting to feel the heat and worrying about their future MiB/Ghostbuster campaign.
      .
      Things were fine up to "Forgotten Kin", then Ninja Division took a nose dive and showed time and again that they could not be trusted. This time is no different. This update isn't for backers; it's a message to their business partners and creditors to try and buy a bit more time.

    38. Cyd@lone on

      Good to have some news at last.
      Sad that these news are so bad. But I'll be patient, as SDE has so much potential.

    39. Bryan on

      This is actually the first and only time i have ever pledge anything in KS. Given the fact that I am a fan of SDE, thus I went ahead with this KS... and now.. I hope things do go well and we all would get what we pledged for....

    40. Motion In Poetry Games on

      @Mike X
      To clarify my statements, I said I have $500 in "pledges" that they owe me ...
      technically I was signed under a multi year "Exclusive" contract as a Freelancer, which prevented me from seeking sculpting work from other companies, this relationship ended in February 2018 ... you can read the rest into my previous statements,
      I invested more than just $500 as a backer

    41. Mike X on

      @Motion In Poetry Games
      No offense - and I don't blame you or anything - but saying you "personally invested $500" into this company doesn't really mean much when you told us how much they paid you. Because, essentially, what it boils down to is you just ended up sculpting one of the models for free. It's less of a purchase and more of a trade of services.

    42. Motion In Poetry Games on

      @Brian Johnston
      I sculpted many of the minis for SDE Legends as a Freelancer, along with other games in the SDE universe, including Forgotten King, Ninja All Stars, Way Of The Fighter, Arena, and others. they paid me Freelance $350 - $450 per chibi mini, and $650 - $800 per boss, depending on the complexity of the design ... I also sculpted some minis that were planned for the future, some of which were later released as individual "masterpiece minis", including the Gnome Tank, Crystal Shaper, etc, these were sculpted several years ago, as I have not sculpted for Sodapop as a Freelancer on a regular basis since July 2017, outside of 6 minis completed during that winter for other projects, including 1 Relic Knight mech,

      I am not commenting about the state of the Legends campaign, or my personal views on SPM/ND as a company, I am merely stating my average working rates as an individual for any interested parties, who may be interested to know how much it costs to hire me as Freelance sculptor, for game design purposes,

      I have never met any of the SPM/ND management staff in person, as like the majority of their previous sculptors, I worked Freelance at home in a completely different country, in my case the UK, I believe the majority of their Freelance sculptors are also from Europe. and as such I have no other information concerning the project, outside of how much I was paid as a Freelancer, and my experiences sculpting the minis for Legends, which was overall fairly pleasant.

      I wish SPM/ND the best of luck with finishing the projects, as like everybody else here, I was a fan and Customer for many years before I ever started sculpting for SDE as Freelancer, and was very exited to help add to the franchise that I loved so much, and I also personally have around $500 of outstanding pledges for various SDE games and minis, that I would very much love to finally receive and add to my collection, along with all the other backers of this campaign.

      I currently have no involvement with SPM/ND, and do not currently have any plans to sculpt for them as a Freelancer in the future.

    43. Daniel O'Donnell on

      I like how they say to communicate with them and not their partners, but also that they are unable to respond to individual communications.

    44. Coach K on

      charts with lies are still lies. you lied to backers. you readily took late pledges and charged shipping for products that did not exist. you are criminals and liars. you used our money to pay licensing fees to your own shell company. you used our money to produce other games and show them off at GenCon. you are nothing and will never mount to anything. the only reason you haven't alreay been forgotten is you owe money to 1000's of people. everyday for the rest of your life when you're out in public, if someone looks at you funny, you get a shiver up your spine and wonder... is that person a "toxic backer" lol

    45. Robert Silvester on

      Not seeing any really new information. Most of this was already previously stated by ND, either here, on Facebook or via the AG letter.

      I'd go into a lengthy post, asking questions about shipping fees collected, the usage of KS funds for unrelated costs, the continued non-disclosure about money collected via your webstore, or the possibility of getting fulfilment via STL and PDF files as a last resort... But I'd be wasting my breath.

      Questions aren't going to be answered, assuming they even stick around to read them. Once more, they are talking AT us, not WITH us.

    46. Brian Johnston on

      So I hardly ever leave comments on kickstarter as I just don't like to comment but I feel strongly enough that I felt I should.

      I should start off saying this I have been supporting ninja division/soda pop miniatures for years. I have backed forgotten king, ninja all stars, rail-riders infinite, SDE legends, and way of the fighter (for only the SDE content). Of those I am only still waiting on SDE legends and way of the fighter.

      Now on to the meat of the problem this project and arguably the rest have been misleading and possibly mismanaged. Here is why.

      1) To start with if Ninja division bought soda pop miniatures or merged with them, they would own that companies IP to include SDE, Relic knights, ect. This would make soda pop a subsidiary corporation or have been a merger (which seems more likely) and melded with ninja division. As such there should not have been any licensing fees. If this was not the case and they just licensed the IP's from soda pop they can't even sell them off as Ninja Division does not own them, Although the owners of ninja division still do as they own/started both. This would also mean it protects their IP should ninja division fail and allow them to skim as much as they want off the top as licensing fees, which seems to be the case.

      2) Assuming that ninja division was able to make ends meet before the start of SDE legends kickstarter then it would not truly be overhead but development costs in those charts. Overhead is only for product that takes up space in a warehouse (this includes electricity, building fees, office supplies, ect), employees who handle/assemble the product, sales staff, customer service staff, management, production costs, ect. This should have been covered by existing sales as there was no product for legends hanging out in the warehouse, or being sold (therefore no need for sales/marketing yet, but could be included once it was getting closer to being fulfilled). The only overhead would be from staff working on the project which again is under development costs. If they used outside artists for the figure modeling and artwork this is either a % upfront and the rest on delivery or all on delivery. In other words a one time fee per item or lot. If they are in house then it should only cover the time they spent working on the project (which I doubt would be more than a year as I recall an update saying artwork and figure modeling was done pretty quickly). Then the rest would just be the salaries of the writers and rule developers. I don't know how much they usually make but as a starting engineer makes between 40-60K a year I doubt they are paid more than that (engineers are paid pretty well after all). Again I don't know specifics but I would assume a 3-4 person development team (6 at most and only if there was an in house artist and sculptor) so around 200-300K a year which should drop after the artwork and miniature sculpts were finished. The overhead for the building (electricity, fees, ect) should have been taken care of from the product already in house. So how did they use so much in overhead unless they were using kickstarter founds to keep the lights on from lack of sales.

      3) Now I don't know how they handled development but in most companies with engineers (I am an engineer BTW) they handle multiple aspects of the project at the same time. If this was the case when the rules need overhauling they should have been creating the molds and casting the models so that when the rules were finished they could send them off to the printers (which takes a lot less time then making molds and casting models) and have the models shipped at about the same time. Then just pack and ship when they arrive with little wait time and low overhead costs from inventory sitting. This of course did not happen with forgotten king or with this kickstarter. I know that most of the money from these has to go to production but I should mention this, plastic injection molds cost between 40-60K per mold depending on complexity (the major cost is in the plastic injection machine but as they contract out the work this does not need to be factored in). This usually does 2 spruces (those were the costs for the kingdom death monster molds which have a lot more detail than SDE does) in hard plastic. I don't know for sure what these are made of but it is not hard plastic, it is most likely PVC which is much cheaper to produce a mold (about 20-40K if I am not mistaken and please correct me if I am wrong). So while it does cost a lot depending on the number of molds 600-800k seems about right. Once that cost is out of the way it should be only a couple of cents per cast to produce. So production costs for the molds should have already been meet, unless they added other stuff into that number. Then printing of written materials can be expensive but it is less than the model production by a lot (I would think between 120-240K though I am not sure). So I would think production cost of about 200-300K should be all that is needed to finish this project. But shipping costs to get it here could be costly so say 400K to be safe.

      4)Now on to the big question what happened to our shipping fees we had to pay for? They, along with late backers, are never accounted for in these charts. This had to be a sizable amount. I don't remember off the top of my head how much I paid for shipping but assuming it is $20 per person times 7000 people (just a rough guess with late backers minus refunds that happened) that would be about $140,000. so did this money just disappear or did they use it to try to finish other projects or keep the lights on, which would be fraud....

      Ok my little rant is over, I honestly hope they make it out of this, we get our models, and they get their act together but as of now I have no hope of this project being completed. I am honestly surprised I ever received rail-riders with how they operate. Hopefully I am proven wrong. Have a nice day everyone.

    47. Missing avatar

      Ben on

      Super dungeon explore or as I like too call it star citizen.

      Distasteful(yet rightly deserved) joke aside. After years of updates not showing any production progress I assumed this KS was a flop quite a while ago, and I'm not terribly upset despite my 150$ down the drain.

      The things that strike me here as annoying is the Q/A that doesn't give a yes or no answer too the question of rewards. Additionally as some others have mentioned the whole royalties thing seems pretty sketchy. If you look at the last pie chart you can even see they messed it up and didn't label the royalties slice.

      All that said I feel bad for others whom have invested in ND and SPM here or in other kickstarters that will likely not receive anything.

      All in all unless the companies deliver on this I can speak for myself in that I won't be purchasing anymore of their products I own SDE 1st(and maybe last edition) but after this it just leaves me with a distaste for it I don't really have the desire too play it or even paint any of the miniatures anymore.

      P.S. I had too edit this a few times too keep it more tame and tasteful I'm not angry, just frustrated as I expected more from ND, and SPM I really quite like(Liked) their IP's, but this is not the first time a mismanaged company has pushed my interests elsewhere, but hopefully will be the last.

    48. Missing avatar

      Nathan Clancy on

      Its good to have an update, hopefully you can find solutions so we can all enjoy more super dungeon.

    49. Luke McKool on

      Will we see regular updates on kickstarter page

    50. Paul Ellison on

      I haven't given up, we can all get through this.