Use this space to cheer the creator along, ask questions, and talk to your fellow backers. Please remember to be respectful and considerate. Thanks!
I think you are missing the point . If you enter into an agreement i.e you give me X and I intend to give you y that is a verbal contract. I am aware a lot of start ups fail but I am assuming that most spend their initial investment on the business itself. They do not leave their job and live off the capital . buying all manner of personnel items, going to conventions writing books etc,etc.
Where are the promised regular updates, nothing that has been promised has been followed up on, simple no cost updates where are they ??? answer to investors question do not cost money .
I raised a concern as soon as Schuyler left work , seems I wasn't too far wide of the mark. I do not look see, as you say , "that the only thing out of the ordinary is Schuyler thinking people deserve something after the money that he was given was put towards the project" I do not feel the funds were put toward the project. I feel the opposite , it is indeed out of the ordinary that someone spends the vast majority of the funds and does not put them toward the project.
How respectful and considerate has Schuyler been to the funders ?
So much for respectful and considerate...
It's important for people to realize that this has been an extremely abnormal business investment. Because it failed? Of course not. Most businesses fail! It's abnormal, because Schuyler intends to make good on his original plan without the additional funding requirements. In a real business investment situation, this is not how it works. You lose it all. And that's perfectly legal and completely fine. It's normal for investments to go sour and happens constantly, it's normal for people to lose money when they gamble it on hopes and dreams. The only thing here that is out of the ordinary is Schuyler thinking people deserve something after the money that he was given was put towards the project. I think he wants to give something back to the people who chose to invest and believe in him, but I don't think he needs to prove anything to those who didn't understand what they were doing with their money when they signed on to this kickstarter.
This is the only true kickstarter I have ever signed on to where someone has wanted to do something that they didn't yet know how to do. It was an amazing investment, because the project runner truly believed in their goal and is still pursuing it despite literally impossible odds: one's own depression, insufficient manufacturing knowledge, lack of funding, and of course the ever present trolling of people who think kickstarter is a mall.
No money I ever spend will go nearly is far as it did here, and I'm fortunate to have been able to give (what little of it) I did. I hope that if all the lock picks make it to their intended destinations that I have an opportunity to give a little more.
I do like Shuyler's latest post
"If, for any reason, we're not able to afford professional welding,"
and that would be because you have spent all of the money.
real pleased you getting on with life and could afford all the moving around and getting married kind of stuff - be nice if you even pretended to make an effort to complete. I think you are a con man you conned me and numerous others out of money 4 years ago. Man up and pay up.
You stated in a previous post money was going into a separate account to fulfil orders. I asked how much is in that account - no answer - So I am a bit dismayed that you latest post drivels on about how nice a regular pay check will be - how much is in the account that is going back to the people you conned.
Is there any kind of update?
I've moved more than a few times since this all started and sent at least as many change of address emails, but still don't have picks or a confirmation of change.
Well, well, now Kickstarter is removing comments. I wonder who's making those decisions and under what criteria (which delete Justin Evans' posts but leave Epactal Claviger's borderline accusations of libel.) I'm glad I read this thread while they were here, but sorry I didn't save screenshots.
I do have a horse in this race, and will quote from the home page of the project: "I'm running this as a pre-sale to get the company started. The money you provide will net you the first run of these awesome tools and the profits will roll right back into the company allowing it to be self sustaining."
As I said, a "business venture."
This comment has been removed by Kickstarter.
By the way, I think your argument would have been stronger had you disclosed you are personal friends with Schuyler Towne. You tweet with him, you follow each other on twitter, you live in the same town and you've attended the same lock pick conventions.
In addition, it appears your pledge was already met by Schuyler Towne and the board. You wrote this on August 30th, 2012:
"Finding out I received my practice kit in the mail today was awesome! The pick-case has been loaded up with old TOOOL and SouthOrd lockpicks that were in need of a new case, and seems to roll up fine. A big Thank You to the Board, Towne, and the Volunteers. Only step left now is use the OpenLockSport templates to make some of Towne's picks.
Has anyone else here used those templates yet? I have the templates downloaded, and could (if the Board/Towne doesn't object) upload it somewhere (Suggestions?). I'll read the license later to see if I even need permission from the Board/Towne."
Epactal, this is why I lack faith in the situation. Your argument would have been stronger had you disclosed this in your attack on me.
geok - Justin Eugene Evans is suggesting that Schuyler do absolutely nothing other than produce picks and go to work, to the absolutely exclusion of everything else in his life. That's not a healthy course of action. I doubt that's something anyone would encourage in good faith. Nor is it reasonable. I'm almost surprised he isn't questioning how many hours Schuyler sleeps, or if there are any naps during the day.
The "research" (Is that what you're calling it?) is hardly presented dispassionately, much less even in good faith. And while you may believe the internet doesn't exist in the real world, this project is most easily compared to a brick-and-mortar store "pre-order reservation" which would most likely be behind a LLC or corporate entity, protecting the owner. But this wasn't a "pre-order reservation" or a (as you call it) business venture. People gave money for a project they hoped would come to fruition, while ignoring the risk that nothing may be gained. People were not buying anything, and often seem to forget this site isn't a store.
To top it off, Justin Eugene Evans has no dog in this race. He has his money back, and wouldn't be receiving anything from this project, except the templates which were already sent.
Justin Eugene Evans - You've got no dog in this fight. No skin in this game. No horse in the race. No money on the line. No stake. I don't know how many other ways I can put this. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You've got your money back.
Your selfless noble crusading desire to see the 1,159 people who backed the project made whole is disingenuous. Everyone who anted up to the project AND still has chips in the pot receives all the same updates and is abreast of the current standing. You folded and cashed your chips out. This is the part where you walk away from the table.
You're posting personal conjecture bordering on libel and acting as if you're doing a service for folks. Twice now you've posted the same 1500 word block, as if no one is capable of scrolling down to the original. Is your intent to continue to spam that post for shits and giggles?
You're not constructively contributing to a conversation. You're not the town-crier. You're not the savior to come educate us poor folk.
Go back to whatever you were doing for the past 2 years. Spend time with your family. Volunteer at the school bake sale. Meditate on inner-peace. Something.
I, for one, am glad that Justin Evans, "backer" or not, has taken the time to do the relevant research and present his findings and his opinion, IMO dispassionately. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do that, but these are things that must be said.
In the real world, a project such as this ends, at the very best, in a Chapter 11, more likely in a Chapter 7 liquidation and possibly in fraud convictions. The patience and tolerance of most is far and above the call of duty, and I see nothing untoward in saying so. This was (is?) a business venture, not a social-welfare project.
To be colloquial, you have no horse in this race. This is where those of us who support the project can communicate. The forum you want to use to discuss projects you have no connection to is elsewhere: Facebook, news sites, your own blogs, etc. Your opinion as a non-stakeholder is not relevant on this board. Considering your very blatant attack on the characters of everyone involved here, I don't understand why you think my inquiries are attacking your character. I've been very careful to avoid doing so, and only meant to point out that you're coming across in a way that reflects more negatively on yourself than those you are criticizing.
Interesting spin. He posted both publicly and emailed me privately. If I called you on the phone right now would that be courteous or creepy? I took it as a subtle threat, particularly because he'd already called out my comment publicly as a shaming tactic.
I was never screwed by Bernie Madoff, but I'm entitled to an opinion. I stopped banking with Bank of America long before it was part of the 2009 financial crisis, but I still had an opinion. And I still have an opinion about this boondoggle because it is yet to be resolved.
Personally, I think its rather weird you think I'd need to be owed money to be morally outraged at fraud.
Only a small percentage of the investors have been made whole. Schuyler needs to temporarily stop going to conferences, stop vlogging, stop building a YouTube audience, stop doing private tutorials with video game companies and make the 1,159 people whole who gave him $87,407.
Paul, I can't help that you choose to spin my words. I can't help that you decide to attack my character. That's your choice. I hope you're a nicer person in real life as well.
Once this boondoggle makes sense there isn't anything to write about. In the meantime, there are 1,159 people who need to be made whole. At this pace and with the amount of social engineering going on, it is doubtful that will ever happen.
Again, I don't understand why you decided to stir the pot when you were no longer associated with this project. You posted nasty things in public on a project you disassociated yourself with, and he responded in private? That sounds like common courtesy on his part. I don't know you. I hope you're a nicer person in real life than you come across on this board. But I just don't understand why you felt the need to start posting on project updates again when you already got a refund and removed yourself from the project. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with all of your speculative "research."
I probably would have remained silent, but after receiving nasty emails from Jason Scott I felt this situation needed further examination. The irony is that if Jason hadn't decided to behave like a bully in private I wouldn't have done the research and written what I wrote below.
Wait, you received a refund two years ago, and you're still leaving 1500 word criticisms on the comments page?
Dear Backers -
Wow, did Jason Scott just cross the line. Rather than listen to me he decided to email me insults privately. Apparently, Jason thinks bullying me is the best way to handle three months of silence and some very good points about reposting photos and contradictory statements.
I'd like to thank Jason and the board for bringing this project back to life several times over the years. It's a slow, thankless job. As a $250 backer who just received their picks, I salute you!
It is disingenuous to post the same photo from three months ago, implying it is somehow visual proof of progress. Also, you can't say he's slow but steady and then list multiple examples of how he needs prodding to work in fits and starts.
The lack of honesty throughout this four-year debacle is laughable. I've lost all respect for the guys holding Schuyler's hand through the process. They Schuyler's enablers.
FYI to anyone interested. I just found this today, Massdrop has the SouthOrd 14pc pick set for 19.99 for the next 24 hours:
If you are interested in buying please use this link to create an account if you don't have one:
Just to say that i recently sent off for a set of lock picks from elsewhere. That is one less for you to worry about. All the best.
I think our update is, we are screwed :(
So....how about an update, specifically on where we are at with deliveries, and what levels are completed? Also what Canadians can expect....
Been a while since March. Would like an update.
Is there any way to get a refund or an update? After 4 years I still have nothing to show for my backing and now we go 3 months with no real update. I've really tried to stay optimistic and supportive but now I could just use my money.
Has the board given up on this project as well? If so please at least post a status stating that for closure.
Update 114 stated :
Schuyler has been working steadily on picks, refining his process, and has been putting money into the (separate) account we set up for buying material,
Just wondered how much was in this account after 5 months - It would show Schuyler's level of commitment to the backers - ??
Any updates? This is taking way to long and I'm going to be one of the last to get the picks. How do I go about getting a refund?
Anyone that has gotten a refund, how did you go about getting it?
It's the end of April ... any updates?
Did that batch of picks from the March 5th update ever go out to backers? (I'm one of the $250 backers and I haven't received anything.)
Am I reading this correctly? Did Quarterly just sell boxes of Schuyler's picks while we're still waiting for ours? I pretty much gave up a while ago, but seeing this in my email just reopened the wound.
New plan. Get bought by Facebook.
Demand a refund, I've already received one. This project is a farce. Kickstarter is not an investment. Investments involve a return or share in the stocks. This is purely a purchase. You have a legal right to get your money back if you request it.
Well, OK, glad the store is open. Bought my picks outright; hope this helps, can't wait to finally get the items in hand. For me, getting the 20-pick set in hand will be closure.
Me, I'm wondering when they are actually going to just sell the damn picks already to help bootstrap the supporters. Not sure what the holdup on that side is.
Again, this has been going on for four years. The founder used the funds for everything except fulfillment, and no amount of dancing around the facts will change that.
As I've said before, I'd be happy to buy picks outright as would many others, so where's the goods?
I say every gets together, can you say "class action". These guys are doing nothing Kickstarter is doing nothing to resolve this.
*Face palm* For christs sake, just send us all a refund. This is now insane. THREE YEARS and what do any of us have to show for it? Hard times? Saddle up pony boy, you dropped the ball I've been paitient, even supportive, but shit, enough.
Is there any way you can let us know how many pick sets have shipped?
Any chance of having anything to pick up at ShmooCon?
Can we get a partial refund?
I ask Kickstarter to take action. They said they notified the creator to post a update because it has been a while since the last update. There is enough backers here I think we need to take this to the next level. At this point it doesn't look like any of use will be getting picks. I think we all have been patient enough.
Would appreciate an update, please.
no Updates for some time :(
Are they contacting people about changes in address before shipping? I'm sure they are going to get a lot of returned packages, if not.
Jason, Schuyler, etal. I know it's been awhile for the project/campaign overall, but wanted to give my thanks for the mostly-regular attempt at updates. I think in some ways the arc of the project has been more interesting with the detailed updates illustrating the various stages. I don't think many appreciate the complexity of doing one of these projects on Kickstarter, especially if they are wildly oversubscribed. Thanks! (I know I'll eventually get the pledge-related reward and I can wait)
If you want to change your address, check a few posts down on this very page and get your answer. Jason Aller on Feb 11, 2013 posted your solution.