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Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is a fast paced strategy battle game that expands on the popular Palladium role playing game.
5,342 backers pledged $1,442,312 to help bring this project to life.

My Third Update

Posted by Palladium Books (Creator)

Hi all, Scott here.

Here is my third update for RRT. 

Consolidating How We Get You Information 

 Since I have taken over communications for RRT Wave 2 with regular, every other week posts, I have requested that Kevin forgo mentioning RRT Wave 2 in the Weekly Updates. This will be the main place for updates; only occasional mentions of RRT will be in the Weekly Updates when we feel it is truly warranted, such as reaching major milestones or have exciting news. Of course, upcoming events involving the RRT game – such as tournaments and organized play – will continue to be mentioned when appropriate in the Weekly Updates. 

Manufacturing Quotes and the Process of Getting Them 

We got three new quotes at the end of last week, a refined quote from the factory that we’ve been dealing with as well as initial quotes from two others that we had reached out to. We are currently analyzing the information in the quotes - a task that is not as simple as it may sound. 

Several people have reached out to me in comments here, through e-mails and by phone since my last Update, asking that I give greater detail about just what goes on with setting up a major production like Wave 2, i.e. - getting a quote. So for those who are curious, please read on (if you’re not interested, you can skip down to the next bolded title). 

The process of getting a quote is not as simple as picking up the phone and calling the manufacturing plant. Once we have identified “manufacturers” we feel have the capabilities for the project, we contact them to set up an initial meeting. (The “manufacturers” are usually either brokers who work with several factories, or the English speaking sales team of a Chinese manufacturer. For clarity, I will just refer to both as brokers.) In the meeting we go over the project with the broker, letting them know what exactly we need in the finished product, quantity and rough time line, special needs or concerns, and other details. Most brokers represent more than one factory/manufacturer, and they sometimes have to consult with them before being able to tell us if they can fulfill a production's needs and what they will require or can offer.

Next, we submit a spec sheet with the basic specifications for the products we want them to manufacture. The spec sheet for Wave 2 is a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet with 300+ lines and 7 or more columns. We send the spec sheet as well as a few 3D model files that are representations of the work that needs to be done to the broker. The broker then reviews the information and can ask for clarification on points, or additional info. 

Once the broker feels that they have enough information, they reach out to their manufacturing contacts to see which, if any, plants have the capacity and capability to take on the project. They send them the spec sheet along with the model files and our expressed wishes about quality, quantity, and schedule to the plant(s) that are interested.

Now comes the long part. With most of the manufacturing plants being in China, they start off by translating the English information into Chinese. Unfortunately, translation is not an exact science, and there are sometimes interpretation errors that crop up, leading to back and forth exchanges between the manufacturer and the broker. If the broker doesn’t know the answer, they contact us. Sometimes it takes several of these exchanges to get the issue resolved. It doesn’t help that not only do these exchanges have to be translated back and forth between languages, but also very different time zones. 

When the manufacturer is finally confident they have enough information, they look at their capabilities, put together a plan on how they intend to accomplish the work, figure out costs and time, and put together their quote. These quotes are not just “we can do the job for $XXX and have it to you by XXX”. They instead are broken down into their own spreadsheet as well as a written summary – all of which have to once again be translated into English. The quote itemizes details such as part count, material costs (and alternatives if the manufacturer has them to offer), projected time lines, work methods, a projected delivery date (for when the production run will end, not when it will be shipped – which is our job to set up – or when it will arrive to us), and other matters. The manufacturer sends the quote to the broker, who will go through it themselves looking for any obviously missing data or mistranslations. If there are any issues to be addressed the broker will try to do so, which can be another back and forth exchange, and then finally the quote gets back to us to review. We may have questions or concerns to address or clarify. 

At the end of all this, we will get a draft contract for the work, which itself will need to be closely scrutinized to make sure it addresses EVERYTHING that we’ve worked out with the manufacturer. Any changes that need to be made have to be negotiated, which is facilitated by the broker. Once that process is done then we can finally enter manufacturing. 

Wow, that was a lot of words. So how does all that apply to our current situation? 

The thing to remember is the manufacturers are companies made up of people like you and me - people who are trying to do their jobs in the best and most efficient way possible - but putting together a quote takes time on their end, and time on ours. The manufacturer wants to do the quote as fast and well as possible in order to minimize their costs, time expenditure and to better their chances of getting the job (manufacturing is extremely competitive, and every manufacturer knows that any job they bid on is not in the bag until they have a signed contract). At the same time the manufacturer has to make sure that they can deliver on what it is they are promising. And it takes time on our side when we get the quote to see exactly what is being promised, and making sure it fits what we need. That's where we are at right now.

We will continue working with the manufacturers, going back and forth with them as described above until we have completed the process and gotten Wave 2 done. I know it is a long process, further complicated by the large scope of this project, but I want to reiterate that we want you to get Wave 2, and we want to see RRT become the game it deserves to be. I appreciate your patience as we continue this project. 

Now to answer some of the questions I’m sure many people will have: 

Question: Couldn’t a more experienced manufacturer, one who has done this sort of work a gazillion times and knows all the ins and outs, speed up this process? After all, they’ve already done it! 

 Answer: Unfortunately manufacturing detailed figurines is not linear when going from one game line to another. Just as one manufacturer may be great at producing organic forms such as fantasy characters and monsters but have problems depicting vehicles and mecha, while another is the exact opposite, and a third can’t do it all. Manufacturing processes that work for one company’s games and requirements won’t necessarily work for another’s. Thus our need to carefully scrutinize the quotes, to make sure that we (and you) get quality rewards for RRT Wave 2. 

Question: Why not cut out all the translation problems by just going with a company in the United States? 

 Answer: Cost. The fact of the matter is that we want to make RRT into a growing, expansive game that will bring joy to fans for years to come. Unfortunately, manufacturing in China or somewhere comparable offers the most affordable way to be able to have a viable game that makes enough profit to support itself. 

Question: Are we going to get RRT done by the end of this year? 

Answer: Here are some details from one of the quotes as to a (rough) time line for production once the quoting process and contract are finished and signed: 

● Pre-production (going over figurine files, making molds, etc.) = 5-6 weeks. 

● Production = 10-14 weeks. 

● Final Assembly (putting things in packages, etc) = 1-3 weeks. 

At the time of this writing there is just under 24 weeks left in 2017. Using the estimated time line above, then yes, "technically" the RRT Wave 2 rewards could indeed be done by the end of the year. However, this estimate does not take into account things like sample reviewing, changes if necessary, approvals, where we may fit in the manufacturer’s schedule (they have obligations to other clients), possible delays (another job runs over, a machine breaks down, etc), overseas shipping, loading and unloading times, time in customs, time to ship the containers from the West Coast to us here in Michigan, or time for us to ship Wave 2 out to you. While the RRT Wave 2 production may begin/finish in 2017, it would be overly optimistic to say that they will be in your hands by the end of 2017.  

Force Organization Charts 

Thank you to everyone who responded to my question about the Force Org charts in my last update. I have people reviewing the old files now to make sure that there are no game-play/balance issues with them, and then will do the art and graphic design. Once the charts are ready they will be released as a free PDF on DriveThruRPG. 

 A New Robotech® Board Game – Not by Palladium Books 

Last week we received several inquiries about a recently discovered website that is announcing a new board game based on Robotech®. This board game is not one of our projects. We reached out to Harmony Gold about it and they let us know that, with the Sony movie in the pipeline, we should start seeing limited licenses being announced in the coming months for many new Robotech products. 

We are excited for our friends at Harmony Gold and wish them and all of their newest partners great success! 

Questions and Answers

Question 1: Why ask for people to update their shipping info (Ship To address, email, and phone number) now when you are nowhere close to actually shipping us Wave 2? 

Answer 1: It is true that we are nowhere close at present to shipping you your RRT Wave 2 game pieces. However, by keeping our shipping information up to date, once we finally do get Wave 2 in our warehouse, we should only have to update a few addresses of backers who have moved in just the last month or two, instead of trying to update everyone who has moved since Wave 1 was shipped. Basically, by doing the majority of the work now we make the actual shipping easier, quicker and more efficient when that day comes. 

Question 2:  Where are the new renders you talked about in your last Update? 

Answer 2: My sincerest apologies for the delay. The renders will begin posting as I can get to them in the next few days. I had hoped to have them up before now but other business matters took up my time and focus.

Final Thoughts

I hope everyone is having a safe and fun Summer.

For those who are interested and going, there will be an organized RRT game at Gencon.  We should have photos from the event posted to our Facebook page during and after Gencon.

As I have previously promised you, I will be back again no later than two weeks from today with another update - that is Tuesday, August 1st.  

Scott Gibbons  

Business Manager

John Adkins, Macrossnut44, and 36 more people like this update.


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    1. Missing avatar

      Squigglysquid on

      Claps upon reading Forar's post...

    2. Forar on

      Yeah, but it was more interesting to type out than the reports compiling in the background.

    3. Missing avatar

      James Edwards


      You're reasonable, diplomatic and well thought out response is totally out of place on these forums...

      And will probably generate the same response as the usually ranting and raving. i.e. nothing of substance.

    4. Forar on

      As someone who doesn't have an extensive career in miniatures, I actually appreciated hearing about the details of the process that goes into these things.

      However, as has been pointed out below, even if we accept your statement as being fully truthful, it raises uncomfortable questions regarding what the hell happened in the over 2.5 years since wave 1 began delivery? Every week or two another newsletter proclaiming that things were 'heating up' or how they were fielding so many quotes.

      Look, I'm actually rooting for you to make this happen, moreso because I'd find it hilarious if 'the new guy' managed to do in a year or less what the other guys at PB couldn't do in 2-3+. And yeah, getting the half grand or so worth of product PB still owes my friends and I would be nice too.

      So, like some of the others, yes there is snark and mockery in much of what I write, but as I've always said, it is offered as a challenge to do better, to prove me wrong. If you want to be more than the new name spouting variations of the old lies, we do need something substantial.

      - Where are the renders for elements that we haven't seen yet? There were sprue breakdowns of the Lancers and Gnerls and more back in 2015, surely these must exist in some fashion if quotes are going out.

      - How about 3D printed prototypes? Like the sadly built and rebuilt Spartan that started off the 'Spartangate' fiasco back in early 2014.

      - Where is the resin in all of this? Unless the same factory is doing both that and the injected plastic, surely there should be some semblance of a plan involving those elements. As strictly add-on pieces, I have a hard time believing these are needed in the high thousands, especially with the estimate for extra money added in the pledge manager, so what's the word? Doing them locally? Another factory? Been forgotten about entirely?

      - PB has been asked about whether or not they even have the finances to continue, and their response has a couple of times been a suspicious one that states that money was not misused to buy houses or yachts, but I don't recall them saying definitively "yes, we still have the funds to produce and ship wave 2".

      - In fact, where is the breakdown of all the elements of this campaign that Wayne promised he'd produce literally 2 years ago (Update 184, July 9th 2015: "As for Wave 2, I’m working on a big breakdown of where each and every component is in its development, but that’s going to take some time."). 'Some time', indeed.

      - Will there ever be a 'failure state'? Perhaps this is the furthest stretch here, but understand that this campaign ended over 4 years ago, and it has been over 2.5 since we saw substantial progress. 2017 is fast becoming a writeoff, so what about 2018? 2019? Are we expected to just accept that while it took them about a year or two to go from design to delivery on a dozen models, two dozen models can't be done in half a decade (extrapolating out to the day when we're still bitching about this well into the 2020's)? Getting you on board in any fashion is a bit of an unexpected change, but until we see something more than mere words, it just feels like touching up the paint as the Titanic sinks beneath the water. Like it's just running out the clock as backers give up, forget, or die. Until Kevin retires or some statute of limitations ends (whether true or not, that's the sense I get).

      - And finally, it is reasonable to understand that details of active or upcoming quotes might not be something one would want to discuss out loud, but how about details of ones that passed? Kevin and Wayne and Jeff and Chuck all talked about how quotes were eternally coming in, so what happened? Too high? Not quickly enough? Untenable economy of scale break points? Having roughly two dozen figures and another dozen'ish resin components to design and produce seems like a good amount of work, but plenty of 'small companies' manage to internally fund doing that much or more each year.

      Yes, PB is an RPG company who stumbled into ~1.5 million dollars to try to branch off into a minis company as well, and just over 4 years later we're still waiting on ~1/3 of our figures (by quantity) or 2/3 (by type), give or take a bit from backer to backer.

      So, about a week from tomorrow there should (in theory) be another update. You've been hitting those, and I appreciate that, but as I said when you first showed up, we need more than just words. Novels worth of words have been written by PB and backers alike (as you can see, some of us are content to do so regularly). PB wrote so much back in early June 2015 that they needed to break it into two updates, and still managed to not say much of value.

    5. Missing avatar

      I need a handle too! on

      Well, there goes the slight hope I had. New face, same lies.

    6. Missing avatar

      James Edwards

      Actually the real question is Wheres our refunds Scott?

      Whats a fair amount to be refunded for a project that's incompletion makes the small portion we've already gotten worthless?

    7. Marek Wiernikowski on

      "Question 2: Where are the new renders you talked about in your last Update?

      Answer 2: My sincerest apologies for the delay. The renders will begin posting as I can get to them in the next few days. I had hoped to have them up before now but other business matters took up my time and focus."

      Starting to think this is more than a few days; in fact approaching a week. If these things were to hand, this shouldn't have been an issue. The implication is that we've been told things exist that do not, or are in a state much further along than they actually are.

      This is certainly true with the 'quotes' situation.

      So, let's reiterate the Really Important Question:

      Where's the money, Scott?

    8. Missing avatar

      n815e on

      Scott, here's the thing. For three years, now, we've been told repeatedly that all these things were being done, and done... and done.
      You'll have to forgive those of us that are skeptical at being told, yet again, that quotes are being looked at.

      If PB are still at this early stage of production, then it can't be helped but to wonder what had been going on in the intervening years. Kevin, Wayne and company wrote over and over that they were working hard on this. Working harder than mere mortals could. They were doing lots of great things behind the scenes and, although they couldn't share details with us, we were all going to be happy and amazed.
      Yet here we are, still at the beginning and PB has nothing to show for three years of godly effort.

      I'm being snarky, but the question of "What has PB been doing all this time?" is serious.
      All the supposed work that amounts to still just getting started after three years, all the broken promises, all the unfulfilled declarations of "201X will be THE year for RRT" and we're presented with a picture of deceit.

    9. Missing avatar

      n815e on

      "It is relatively easy to research a company: he should have known fully what he was getting into."

      He's a fan and a friend.

    10. Missing avatar

      Tim Schmidt on

      Thank you for the update.

    11. Missing avatar

      Squigglysquid on

      Pics or nothing happened...

      Seriously, proof over words - you guys have ZERO credibility without it...

    12. Talizvar on

      It is a positive thing to see those willing to accept these postings as a token of good faith.
      I cannot help feeling it is just some placeholder, lip service, to assuage, to mollify to just leave a nice happy trail of activity to show anyone of authority that there is no easy lawsuit to slap them with.

      It would be a fine thing if a strong effort can be given to disprove this "guess" on my part.

      BTW I can certainly feel the frustration that without the full support of the law we cannot possibly know the real truth of PB's lack of demonstrable activity.

      Conjecture is a fine thing to try to convince yourself into a course of action: walk away, file small claims, lodge a complaint with FTC/AG, bother/harass PB on every media and product offering.

      I really have no pity for the new guy.
      It is relatively easy to research a company: he should have known fully what he was getting into.

      I had even worked for some rather nasty pieces of work and just quietly get the resume out there and get out, so it is his choice to stay with all the benefits and consequences that entails.

    13. Missing avatar

      brendan hill on

      Thanks for the post. I appreciate that you are the new guy and you have been handed a bit of a crap sandwich in your new position. The reality is that Palladium have fed us all a load of rubbish over the last few years. The upshot of this is that I don't care any more. I have lost the money I put in to this, and I don't realistically expect to get wave 2. I may be wrong, but so many years have passed that it doesn't matter any more. I am not even sure my address is up to date but I am not sure that will matter. I hope it will work out for all you other guys who went in for this, but for me, it doesn't matter any more.

    14. Luis Ramos (Asajev) on

      At risk of starting a fire in the comments to all who are still angry at the company and management team. Chill we all got burned in the past but enough is is enough. Let go of what they did or did not due in the past. The fact that they are willing to open dialogue and say as much as they already have shows a token of good faith. If Wave 2 ever comes let it I no longer hold a grudge with the company. Feel free to lash out at me like you do to the other who have let go and are willing to give the new team a chance after all they can not do any more harm then the company has already done. I will stand-by and support the new Kickstarter Community Manager as a fellow business owner he has most likely given you as much information as he can without breaking an NDA or some similar legal document.

    15. Missing avatar

      Claire Labus on

      C'mon dude. I set the bar so low that subterranean life could get over it without leaving the dirt. How the hell could you dig below it? Same info, more words. Give us some REAL information.


    16. Aaron Newlands on

      Dude you have such a uphill battle. For me this all came down to accountability. Never has there been any. PB has never really stepped up and said ok we really did mess up. We messed up here and in a big way and we are going to fix it. Here is a transparent (within reason) plan of how we are going to fix it and how. This never happened. Its been a game of dodgeball. With Getting quotes as the standard gig. I've had other KS with minis finish and have them on my desk before this one got any where near anywhere. What do they know about getting quotes that you guys don't? I'm a chill guy I understand the difficult position your in and I won't insult you for toeing the party line (maybe towing the party line is more accurate) everyone does that regardless how much they say they don't. But ya got to show us some progress not just more of the same song.

    17. TwoGunBob on

      CMON knows when the specialized spreadsheet rendering translators are not out wind surfing obviously. Most kickstarter projects apparently also know how to work around the 10 month long Chinese New Year that plagues Palladium like an albatross around their neck. Course most kickstarter project managers don't suffer from global internet outages, storms that destroy the ability to work, convention diseases that incapacitate their entire work force for months at a time... Is there anything I'm missing?

    18. Matt Saia on

      But somehow CMON does manufacturing reliably across all genres, with larger order loads all the time, not to mention numerous other companies. Having done manufacturing in China of figures, all the major providers that work with American companies have people that are likely more fluent in English than the PB staff. I really wanted to think the best of this effort, but nothing you are saying holds water at all. Some simple questions forthcoming.

      Does PB have the money to make Wave 2 in an account, ready to go?

      Why can't you post updated renders etc. of all the remaining figs? It has been asked here dozens of times.

    19. Missing avatar

      Phunky Phantom on

      To further help everyone understand the renders have been done since 2015. Chinese factory designers completed the model renders through the goodness of their hearts without a solid price quote.

      Feb 28 2015 - ALL Wave Two pieces are either done or in active development(3D Files).


      "As I understand it, the engineers in China have to completely rebuild, and recreate EACH 3D file, using the 3D sculpts as a base from which to start, and even that is mainly just reference for the pose. They have to, in effect, completely redesign a completely new digital model to manufacturing specifications." - Kevin's Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Update – June 6, 2015 - Part Two

    20. Missing avatar

      James Edwards

      I don't buy the language barrier issue.

      You expect me to believe that a reputable manufacturer that routinely deals with foreign customers does not have people on staff that are fluent in English to the point this is a HUGE issue?

      Unless PB has sunk to the level of trying to deal with shady, disreputable and questionable manufacturers in there quest to get wave 2 produced for nothing this should not be an excuse.

    21. Ragnarok on

      "Getting these quotes is hard. It has reasons."

      I have, LITERALLY, had 12 kickstarters with minis that went through this process show up at my door SINCE WAVE 1!

      I have never opened one of my boxes because looking at all the pieces made me angry and no one was going to play it here, because it was far too complex.

      Your boss got rid of Ninja Division and they would have dealt with all this. Kevin needs to step down and allow competent people to run Palladium.

      Meanwhile, get the renders and mock ups in a post TODAY or stop bothering to insult our intelligence. I am guessing they don't exist.

    22. Missing avatar

      pneusodym on

      I feel this update is still avoiding answering the question I posed directly, in that it doesn't speak - at all - to why the process has dragged out over so many years. I mean, I get it, estimates are difficult, and the language barrier exacerbates that, but there's nothing here showing why this wasn't resolved literally years ago.

    23. Rick van Nooij on

      ...and yet more of the same "Soon(TM)" drivel we've been fed for the last 3 years....
      Nothing has been said or shown that there is any actual progress. Give it up already.

    24. Ragnarok on

      "only occasional mentions of RRT will be in the Weekly Updates when we feel it is truly warranted, such as reaching major milestones"

      So... never? That's good. I am sure Kevin was running out of ways of saying he hasn't done anything yet again.

      The Renders should have been shown last update. Your inability to post them in a timely fashion when it was one of the most requested things in your first post speaks volumes.

    25. TwoGunBob on

      Scooter has found three different ways to talk about getting quotes in six weeks. Probably the most amusing thing is going to be how he manages to turn 'getting quotes' into an update around the sixth or seventh update. Like the Scootmeister will step down by then citing this place as a toxic environment that has given him a bleeding ulcer. He was only trying to HELP, nevermind that his paycheck was tied into duping 5,342 people into believing Palladium has been working in good faith all these years and not lamenting that they blew all the money on retail stock that underperformed in sales, Northern Gun books that underperformed in sales, and completely screwed up shipping like amateurs.

      Hmmm, how much would you have to get paid an hour to lie to over 5,000 people on a bi-weekly basis? Is it a lie if it's another person telling you the lie, you know it's a lie, but pretend that it's Vishnu's honest truth?

      Scooter's still a few months from claiming innocence and that he was only following Kester's orders and was unaware that 'getting quotes' meant playing Atari 2600 in the office with the sound turned down so no one could hear the beep beep sounds.

    26. Missing avatar

      James Edwards

      Mr. Gibbons

      I'd say you've done a bang up job of making things WORSE, not better.

      You are either one of the most incompetent business managers around, which is totally believable since you are stuck working for PB, presumably because you couldn't get a real job, or things are far, far worse at PB and with RTT that even my most pessimistic and insulting guesstimates as to the EPIC nature of PB's failure and criminal fraud are but a pale, insignificant shadow compared to the true magnitude of utter disaster that RTT & PB are.

    27. TwoGunBob on

      Hai guyz! Don't lose your faith! Scooter has also advised Kevster to hide the dirty urine soaked sheets that are this kickstarter by removing it from the weekly sales ad! Now you can just receive the unadulterated glamor that is the beautiful Palladium sales ad without having to hunt for that pesky non-information about progress on this disaster!
      Of course people did complain about two years ago about having to go to Palladium's facebook or read their weekly ad for information. Two years later Scooter has heard your pleas! Now non-information will be released here on kickstopper as requested. No longer will awesome Rifts fanboys have to hear about the failure that this project is. The stars are aligning to get that Pee ARRRRR!!! machine oiled up for gRifts the bored game part deux!

    28. PB Show Me Don't Tell Me on

      Ok scott time for actual proof . Share off the excel sheet ,share the renders and share all these quotes we've been waiting on for years now. SHOW ME DON'T TELL ME . Your next update should have no words and nothing but pictures and files for the backers to review.

    29. Thomas on

      Sigh. Why do I bother reading or responding to these things? Surely PB has gone through every Chinese manufacturer for a quote by now? Counting up the weeks 16-23 weeks, which places all this between November 2017-January 2017, and oh look! North American Holidays in November to January, then Chinese New Year in February. I'm sure that is the excuse we'll get. Then more updates about quotes... LOL

    30. Brian Ledbetter on

      "Wave Two Timeline
      Jul 18 2017 -1 revised main manufacturer quote, 2 revised side quotes
      Jul 4 2017 - 1 main manufacturer’s initial quote
      Jun 21 2017 - 1 main manufacturer’s initial quote
      Jun 20 2017 - 1 main manufacturer’s initial quote
      Feb 23 2017 - seeking initial quotes from congested pipelines of manufacturers & comparing quotes?
      Sep 9 2016 - waiting on a quote from one manufacturer, and talking to another.
      Jul 27 2016 - quotes have to be reevaluated by various manufacturers.
      Apr 14 2016 - we recently got some tooling quotes for Wave Two and we’re discussing specifics with the manufacturer.
      Jan 29 2016 - No mention of quotes, but getting into actual production and manufacturing for Wave Two this year.
      Aug 26 2015 - No mention of quotes, and actively working towards the production and delivery of the rest (Wave Two).
      Jun 19 2015 - with several pieces completely done and ready for tooling, and others undergoing final changes.
      Jun 7 2015 - several advisors tell me not to even say that we are trying hard for an end of 2015 release for Wave Two.
      Feb 28 2015 - ALL Wave Two pieces are either done or in active development(3D Files).
      Jan 17 2015 - revised 3D renders back from the engineers in China this week.
      Jan 13 2015 - sent China changes and corrections to many of the 3D engineering models.
      Oct 2 2014 - we got some new Wave Two renders from the engineers last night.
      Sep 18 2014 - we’ll be working to get Wave Two into manufacturing as soon as we can, so hopefully it won’t be coming very far behind Wave One.
      Aug 28 2014 - We’ll continue going over the renders and engineering issues soon.
      Aug 23 2014 - Everything is in motion and Wave Two is coming.
      Aug 7 2014 - yesterday we got a bunch of renders and tentative sprue layouts."

      Holy Bejeezus, it's like PB is going backwards in time!

    31. TwoGunBob on

      Hai guys, getting qwotes is teh hard. Chinese corporations often do not use the same software so they have to contract a specialized spreadsheet translation expert. It's getting close to Chinese New Year so these are hard to locate as they have often migrated where the wind surfing is good so surely y'all (Texas!) understand the forty-eight month delay. It can take days to simply translate "hello!" into Mandarin, much less Cantonese. Or you backers even aware there are regional Chinese dialects? This even further complicates matters as often they have to find an English to Mandarin translator and THEN a Mandarin to Cantonese translator. As stated most of them are currently wind surfing for Chinese New Year, so surely this makes the delays clearer.

    32. Missing avatar

      David Holley

      It does not take years to get quotes.

      Just admit there is no money.

    33. hakoMike on

      @scott I understand the cost aspects, but there are domestic options that can be competitive. I have been a backer and a gamer forever and just started managing tech at an injection molding company in SE Michigan that can often outbid non-domestic suppliers. Contact me if you want more info. (I know... shameless plug)

    34. Missing avatar

      Fleshharrower on

      Come on... At what point are you guys going to come clean and tell us where the money went?

    35. Khyron's Eye on

      Thanks Scott for continuing to meet your update deadline.

      I don't have a problem with removing the non-updates from the weekly sales screed. Other goodly folks following this failed project that aren't as temporally challenged as I pass on whatever steaming nuggets of pertinence Kevin drops. Though it does seem a step in the direction of quietly sweeping this under the rug (along with banning people from various forums who ask questions).

      Thanks for the explanation on the arduous chore of getting quotes. Must be why hardly any kickstarters have miniatures and game and toy store shelves are always empty of miniatures or models. Since it has taken four years for you guys to apparently learn this the hard way I'm really surprised you would so easily part with such proprietary knowledge free of charge. So now that we are all up to speed can we get some details on these issues that you are having to address that's involved in this process? What is it that keeps coming up? What was the last issue that came up? How much more was the quote from manufacturer B over A and C? How about a look at this mysterious spreadsheet? Details are what people are actually more interested in. And, you know, to see that you are actually doing something other than phoney updates every two weeks repeating "we are getting quotes" ad naseum.

      And another thing, if PB really has spent the last three years going back and forth with manufacturers as has been claimed then almost EVERYTHING on your end should be resolved, clarified, air tight and set in stone. IF anything comes up that stalls the process that certainly would be update worthy.

      Will you please answer these questions:

      1. What is the game plan to revive this game (other than release wave 2)? I'd like to see something tangible on this, not just "Kevin has super secret plans he wrote on the back of a Subway napkin 3 years ago."

      2.What is the status of resin/objective pieces?

      3. What are the plans for the other series mecha? Do these exist as 3d models made during the last two years or has PB really not been doing ANYTHING in regards to this game?

      Please don't substitute any more fan friend softball questions for the number of legitimate questions raised by many of us that you have failed/refused to address.


    36. Gene Evans on

      So Kevin and Wayne haven't been getting qoutes for the past 2 years? Why does this not suprise me at all?

      Scott has still not addressed the resin items that are supposed to be in Wave 2 addons, fantastic.

    37. Richard on

      So I've read the update and all the comments up to this on one:

      Tldr some waffle about a tiny tiny spreadsheet, that's offended a lot of spreadsheet workers (Games Workshops order form has over 1100 rows and 13 columns), that's been the cause of all the hold ups for 3+ yrs.

      Basically you're lining up Chinese New Year as an excuse in July. It's the same BS and smoke and mirrors and Jazz Hands ™ just cloaked in a long winded essay.

      When asked to show not tell I'm sure the expectations were for relevant pictures and items, not for the smoke screen wall of text which tells the same "we're getting quotes, still"

      Delaying tactics, while somewhat annoying for us, could actually be a little sound. I'd hate to be a company trying to release a game going up against the juggernaut that is Warhammer 40k 8th edition! Except it's not going to end soon, is already pulling in ex 40k players and the time to carve out a chunk of those players has well and truly sailed. Warmachine players were ripe for the picking after MK3 crashed into a stumble, but they are returning to GW.

      Timing, comedy is all about timing, this show has bad timing. And is only funny about all the wrong reasons. By that I mean it's a laughing stock.

      In other news I finally saw a UK rifts book for sale!! £2.45 clearance item!!

      End of line!

    38. Missing avatar

      Alucard on

      @TwoGunBob I just read your post following and I am sorry I ever doubted you :) And your questioning about the reason for the translation issues is sounding close to the pure truth :) Keep up the fine work of making these posts worth reading

    39. Marek Wiernikowski on

      "● Pre-production (going over figurine files, making molds, etc.) = 5-6 weeks. "

      Lolwut? Have you not actually counted up the number of sprues that are needed? You won't get properly tooled dies in that time.


      Not a diss, simple fact.

      Stop messing around with multiple brokers / manufacturing quotes and just use a confirmed, reliable manufacturer that can actually handle the majority of the conversion work you'll need doing in-house:

      I worked with these guys' stuff in preproduction phases and it's decent. They even have sliding core methods available which would help massively in reducing part count and seam location and they've got a solid US presence. By far the best 'all in one' solution, and they've handled everything from titan-size mech kits (widely reknowned as beautiful models) to small scale infantry.

      That's about the only helpful thing I feel inclined to share. Your 'update' uses a lot of words to say precisely nothing we didn't already know. It is bad, and you should feel bad. It's politician speak, greasy and unpleasant.

      The ONLY reason to continue with this current 'seeking quotes' bollocks is because you haven't got enough money to do the job properly, so you're trying to half-ass it. PB tried that before and it backfired massively. You're doing the same again. Seen it before, it's a shell game and we're all quite tired of the bullshit.

      So, answer this:

      Where's the Money, Scott?

      How much Wave 1 stock is PB sitting on right now?
      How much liquid capital is left in the kickstarter account?

      Remember, collectively we pumped WELL OVER $1.4m into this shitshow. We deserve some answers as to where that money went, because it's obviously not going to get Wave 2 done any time soon.

    40. Missing avatar

      Phunky Phantom on

      Wave Two Timeline

      Jul 18 2017 -1 revised main manufacturer quote, 2 revised side quotes
      Jul 4 2017 - 1 main manufacturer’s initial quote
      Jun 21 2017 - 1 main manufacturer’s initial quote
      Jun 20 2017 - 1 main manufacturer’s initial quote
      Feb 23 2017 - seeking initial quotes from congested pipelines of manufacturers & comparing quotes?
      Sep 9 2016 - waiting on a quote from one manufacturer, and talking to another.
      Jul 27 2016 - quotes have to be reevaluated by various manufacturers.
      Apr 14 2016 - we recently got some tooling quotes for Wave Two and we’re discussing specifics with the manufacturer.
      Jan 29 2016 - No mention of quotes, but getting into actual production and manufacturing for Wave Two this year.
      Aug 26 2015 - No mention of quotes, and actively working towards the production and delivery of the rest (Wave Two).
      Jun 19 2015 - with several pieces completely done and ready for tooling, and others undergoing final changes.
      Jun 7 2015 - several advisors tell me not to even say that we are trying hard for an end of 2015 release for Wave Two.
      Feb 28 2015 - ALL Wave Two pieces are either done or in active development(3D Files).
      Jan 17 2015 - revised 3D renders back from the engineers in China this week.
      Jan 13 2015 - sent China changes and corrections to many of the 3D engineering models.
      Oct 2 2014 - we got some new Wave Two renders from the engineers last night.
      Sep 18 2014 - we’ll be working to get Wave Two into manufacturing as soon as we can, so hopefully it won’t be coming very far behind Wave One.
      Aug 28 2014 - We’ll continue going over the renders and engineering issues soon.
      Aug 23 2014 - Everything is in motion and Wave Two is coming.
      Aug 7 2014 - yesterday we got a bunch of renders and tentative sprue layouts.

    41. ldjessee on

      Proof. Dream Pod 9's Heavy Gear Blitz War for Terra Nova Starter Set Kickstarter
      Here is a company that raised much less money than Palladium, but managed to show 3D models, take feed back from fans and improve upon those models where they could. Posted pictures of updated 3D renders. They showed pictures of the steel injection molds being made in China, pictures of them being shipped to the US, pictures of them arriving. They also had those molds used to test pop plastics in Indiana, adjusted them, and ran all the plastics. Those items were shipped to Canada, assembled, boxed, and added other items (decal sheets, counters, dice, a beautiful quick start guide, free online living rulebook) and shipped it world wide. They made regular updates, they showed images, not just of renders, not of the molds, but of test pops, of them being painted, of problems that happened from those molds needing more adjustments. They never hid, they never made excuses. They were forth coming and the fans sported the extra year delay in getting their items.
      This company, Dream Pod 9, is a few core people and a stable of contractors.
      They did everything discussed, in the update above, and the items I listed, in the time Palladium has had to work on Wave 2 and is still working on quotes. This problem is known, done, and there are not any mysteries.
      Many people gave Scott a chance, I was one of them, but he could not even post a picture of a 3D model, render, or anything other than to relate how complicated it is to make this happen.
      Scott, do not bother with an update unless you can present something we have not seen before.
      HG might do the math and realize it would be cheaper to revoke Palladium's license, sue them for damaging their brand, and give it to someone who can make products (and money) from that license.

    42. Missing avatar

      theo c on

      Well, the one bit of useful info is that I can unsubscribe from the horrible PBWU.
      Scott, you might notice that I've only posted comments here very infrequently, though that might be asking too much. Don't let that make you think that past updates where I haven't commented have been acceptable to me, because they haven't. This is likely the case for the majority of backers who are either upset or have already written you off as crooks. If you want to make this right, like you claim so frequently, please actually look at the comments and answer the questions posted here, not the ones you'd like to answer. I don't want to know how many lines your spreadsheets have--as many have said, there is nothing impressive about this project's needs other than the desperate need of competent management and (likely) funding your company just doesn't have.
      At this rate you are bleeding any support you might have from your audience. I don't think you have more than a couple of updates to show something real before the majority writes you off as Kevin v2. Please understand this if you get nothing else from this update's comments: just because the majority don't comment on your non-updates, doesn't mean they are happy with your non-progress or satisfied that things should continue at this non-pace.

    43. Missing avatar

      James Edwards

      @David there was a link posted in the general comment section a few days to a week ago. Old news. Something we probably wouldn't have heard about from PB if it hadn't been brought up in the comments already.

    44. David Moffatt on

      I've gotten mildly excited by this update, I hadn't heard that a non PB company was doing a Robotech Board Game. I can't wait to find out the details.

    45. Missing avatar

      Kapow Ltd on

      At least these aren't the exact same things we've been told for years or anything. /s Why not just admit it will never happen. Admit Kevin took our money, is laughing while doing it and call it a wash. At least we won't need to call you out on bullshit for 200+ updates.

    46. Missing avatar

      Rolland Rivera on

      Thanks for the regular updates! I look forward to Wave two getting produced and seeing the game expand into the other eras.

    47. Steve (Smoth) Smith on

      Wow, another game in parallel? Ya'll better hurry up!

    48. Tasker on

      Oh look. More "Awaiting quotes" bullshit.

    49. Bad_Syntax

      So, TLDR: ~6 months.
      6 months out still and its been this long? Yeah, not holding my breath!