by Red Thread Games
I'll reserve my judgements until after the game is actually out, but I also hope DF:C doesn't take too much inspiration from TWD by Telltale Games, as I have very little interest in those kinds of games. If they intend to employ choices as a central gameplay element I much prefer the way of games like Kentucky Route Zero or The Cat Lady where choices aren't there to create some facade of changing the course of the story, but rather to engage the player by providing choices they might be able to relate to.
I for myself love story-driven games, and I'm not too much into hard puzzles. That's exactly why I loved TLJ and DF. Of course, a clone of The Walking Dead would not be a real TLJ-like game, yet I doubt Ragnar really meant it this way. So I'm still looking forward to the game. Story is key, puzzles are nice to have.
I am astonished how some commenters criticize RTG and their creative freedom in a tone as if they own the place.
"If you want to make enemies, try to change something." (Adam Jensen in Deus Ex: Human Revolution)
The trailers for Dreamfall Chapters demonstrate clearly that RTG hasn't abandoned puzzles, neither in the environment nor the inventory.
What RTG is doing is to expand the narrative interactive space to create a world in which more things can happen. This is a tremendous effort and good news for anyone. Because this doesn't do away with puzzles, but tackles their largest drawback in TLJ and Dreamfall; that every player was required to go through every puzzle in more or less the same sequence.
An expanded narrative interactive space creates a bigger world with the freedom to make puzzles optional and with alternative solutions, a world in which dialog, environment and inventory puzzles complement each other and give you choices how to proceed.
If anything, I like to encourage RTG to make the most of this opportunity, and create puzzles that are a match for this. While mandatory puzzles shouldn't be too difficult, there is now space to add puzzles that are considerably more difficult but lead to rewarding mysteries. Puzzles that are not mandatory but reward dedication. An easter egg here and there, that gives you a bit of additional lore or a hint, or maybe striking that perfect balance in a series of related dialogue that in the end that character that nobody believed possible to save makes it. Marvelous feats can be done here. Technically, the restoration of the library in Marcuria is already such a feat. What if a book in the library shows a hidden passage only in the right light?
I wouldn't be surprised if the most vocal critics here, once they have got their hands on Dreamfall Chapters and solve a puzzle that leads to a secret, find this freedom incredibly cool.
Nice surprise update! Got very excited after reading the Rock Paper Shotgun preview. For me, I like the direction you are going in. Team RTG - high fives and cannon strokes ;)
Cellphone -.- sorry for all the typo.
just* trusted* disappointed*
I don't really like what i juste read. "More Teltale game than The Longest Journey". I didn't backed a %%&# Teltale game. I backed a sequel to the TLJ saga. I tristes you a lot. Really a lot. I hope I won't be despited by a crapy Teltale-clone. I would prefer not having a DFC and TLJH than ersatzs...
This is a great update. Not too many developers have the guts to show journalists their Alpha build. Good "reviews" so far from the journalists that you put up on your update.
I have been waiting for so long for the continuation of Zoë's adventure. It really looks like I can enjoy this title and I did the right thing backing RTG to make Dreamfall Chapters with most of my saved money at the time of the Kickstarter. :)
I wish the RTG all the luck and that Dreamfall Chapters becomes a hit! Which means (I hope) that we can expect to see another game in the TLJ series. :)
Also lots of talk about Telltale games over here.. I'm not a fan of modern zombies in general so The Walking Dead is not a game for em, but the story is a good one, of what I have seen from LPs. The Wolf Among Us however I will defend since I really like the game..s. Telltale did a good job with that DC license.
TLJ games should not go in the same way as Telltale, if they did then the adventure part would be lost and it would not be as special, it would be a Telltale clone. Let TLJ be TLJ and let Telltale be Telltale so we can have diversity and unique games and not "copies" of eachother.
My thoughts on the matter.
For me it's great news that DFC goes more in the direction of The Walking Dead, and I feel it's the logical evolution of Dreamfall.
I always felt that the puzzles in Dreamfall were stupid things that just broke my immersion into the world and hindered me to get on with the Story.
Walking Dead tells a great story with interesting and deep characters. And without any unnecessary gameplay ballast that breaks the narrative.
So I can't think of a better game to influence DFC then The Walking Dead.
While I understand that people who expected a classic Point and Click Adventure are disappointed, I'm more hyped than ever ;-)
I like the Telltale games, but i loved dreamfall because of the gameplay diversity (puzzles, fighting, stealth ) the story and music of dreamfall chapters will be perfect, i have no doupt, but if the game could have more diversity could be the best adventure game, for me at least. We will not be disapointed but we could be amazed!
I guess you've missed something important in the reminder "Be respectful and considerate".
Nevertheless, I have no interest in flame or holy war. The main purpose of my comment was to show Red Thread Games that Telltale products can cause disgust among their backers/fans. I'm not going to judge Dreamfall Chapters on the basis of some preview. On the contrary, I have hopes that I will love this game. But I'd like to remind the developers that there are those who are interested not only in the story/narrative, but in the gameplay as well.
@Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
Mistakes leading to character death are fun but not necessary. It is the puzzles that should be solved by item (object) manipulation, puzzles that should be solved by item combination, etc that are the cornerstone of adventure games. Story is needed no doubt but story alone is not enough.
Not sure what the complainers miss from the old adventure games. The "whoops you walked into the wrong room and you die" stuff from King's Quest? The "whoops you clicked a pixel too far and fell to your death" annoyances from Black Cauldron? You play these games for the story, that has not changed.
Dear Red Thread Games - I, as a curmudgeonly skeptic in regards to the industry and someone who has been burnt twice by high profile Kickstarters (not DoubleFine), am truly hopeful after those news. RPS referencing a "personal story", "collection of stories [...] and about stories", "looking to the future rather than the past", "isn't content to tickle Nostalgia glands" are key aspects of what I'm looking for. As a fan, fan service to me isn't the inclusion of as many familiar faces and locales as possible. It's a loved, creative continuation, and possibly conclusion to a journey one has begun. I don't see the value of, and this is what some people genuinely are doing, both as developers and audiences, holding on to the Past for the Past's sake - and this extends to the gameplay. "[E]emotional and psychological consistency," writes Mr Smith. God, if that's true, I cannot wait. "[E]even the clothes that people wear tell their own stories."
Honestly, that combat and stealth are gone, as is suggested by the review, isn't a cause for much celebration for me - if it fits the narrative, I think it's fine to include it. Kian is a fighter, so I'd expect some fighting from him. Which brings me to the next point...
@Olauron - You might be an idiot.
An abomination is something that causes "disgust" or "hatred". The Telltale products are finely crafted experiences, and just because you elevate TAXONOMY over that doesn't diminish their achievements. That they are not what you EXPECTED them to be doesn't diminish their achievements. And for preconceptions and expectations to blind you to that is foolish, nothing else. This has nothing to do with subjectivity. You may not like the type of game The Walking Dead and their like are, or you might PREFER a point and click adventure, but that is not a license at being angry for a developer for developing something different. You're not entitled to what you demand, nor are they beholden to what has been developed in the past. It's not specifically aimed at you, but you used some ill-advised words, for which you are solely responsible and which represent a larger trend of gamers, ... or people in general, being unable to process the world as is and instead prefer to filter it through their mind which usually has an excess of vitriolic dross in its channels.
Honestly, if the article is true, all I can think is: Good on Red Thread Games.
To me Telltale products are abominations that do not even deserve to be called adventure games as there is no actual adventure genre gameplay. As such anything that comes closer to them is just doing it wrong. I hope Dreamfall Chapters will have enough adventure gameplay to be interesting and engaging for me.
Where's the t-shirts?
I can't believe all the negative comments here. I read this post and suddenly I was more excited than I was already! Things are looking good.
And I'll take all the comments I've heard from Ragnar and the rest about how things are going to be laid out gameplay-wise than some random comment that was quoted on some site that was probably taken out of context.
Plus, TLJ has always been heavily story-driven. Where everything else takes a back seat to it.
Just two questions:
1) To what degree will our choices affect the story? I mean, I always thought that this type of game mechanic was doomed from the start. Because the choices can't really make a huge impact on the story, or you end up having to actually write multiple stories. And a story of this scale you simply can't do that. I just wonder how much of an effect, and what kind of effect will those choices have.
2) Is the mouth animation finalized? It looks really weird. Now I realize that there's a ton of dialogue in the game, but Zoe in the latest gameplay vid looks kind of weird in that aspect. Just wondering.
Just watched the new game-play video here: http://www.gamereactor.no/previews/226974/Dr%F8mmefall+Kapitler/
and I must say WOW - the blend of visuals and music in the opening scene managed to evoke same feelings I remember playing TLJ circa 2002.
Also the quality is very good for an alpha build, seems you guys put the raised funds to a good use.
Can't wait for it to be released!
To clarify my post further down; although I, too, prefer the traditional roadblocks and whacky puzzles of older adventure games, I think RTG can make the gameplay as cinematic or whatever as they want. As was proven to me when I played Dreamfall, the thing that matters most in this series is the story, and that is what sucks me in.
That is also why I don't like the whole "you choose the direction of the story" thing. Like saluk said, it weakens the narrative, and you'll probably spend a lot of time wondering if you're getting the worst or best version of the story. And personally, in games like that I can never let it go and find myself compelled to look up the best choice on the net, just to make sure I'm getting the "ultimate experience", which usually ends up with something being spoiled to me (yes yes, it's my own fault for being weak-willed and whatnot but when you have OCD you can't just shake off the thoughts that drive you to look it up in the first place)
Basically I think there's a reason why Tolkien never wrote LotR as a Choose Your Own Adventure.
I think that all the knee-jerk reactions caused by the mere mention of "The Walking Dead" in the RPS article are unwarranted. Mind you, taken alone, Ragnar's quote that "DF:C is closer to a Telltale game than to TLJ" sounds unsettling, but if you read the rest of the article it's crystal clear that is a bad (and unfortunate) comparison (yes, I disagree with The Man here!). DF:C obviously has different gameplay (with inventory puzzles, no QTEs, etc.), different pacing (with open hub areas where exploration can take place), different focus (in TWD the focus is heavily on the choices, while here they seem to be the "dessert" to the main course). Their only common element, in my opinion, is what makes both TWD and all games in the TLJ saga great: story, characters, emotional impact. Is that ... bad?
But, regardless of that comparison, let's talk about the puzzles. I perfectly understand that everyone has different tastes and expectations, but frankly: what was the main reason you liked The Longest Journey and Dreamfall? If your answer is "for the puzzles", I'll be puzzled myself. Because, with few exceptions, they were never good. They weren't bad either (in TLJ especially), but they were nothing exceptional (and oh my god all the backtracking!). I believe we're all here for the story, for the characters, for the witty dialogue and to get our hearstrings expertly fiddled with.
"But wait!" you'll say. "It's not the puzzles per se that I want, but the unique combination of puzzles and story that only adventure games can deliver." And you'll be right. And it seems that's what we'll get (from the RPS article: "I’m told that the puzzles become more complex as the story progresses"). Of course, it WILL be an experience closer to Dreamfall than to the original TLJ, because DF:C is a sequel to that (and it's not The Longest Journey Home), but RT have promised to attempt to recapture some of the "lost magic" of TLJ (the sense of awe and discovery, or the unique elements of the series, such as the cyberpunkish Stark and the colorful fairytale-y Arcadia) and I haven't seen proof they're straying from that path yet.
So, I think that everyone should chill their horses, read beyond the "splashy" headlines and the easily misinterpreted quotes, but also seriously consider what is the "essence" of The Longest Journey Saga (because the gameplay elements, while still very important, certainly aren't).
I may sound like a fanboy, but how can I not be? Ragnar and co. have yet to fail me on the story level (have they failed you?) and they've also shown to have enough experience (earned through both triumphs and mistakes) to avoid major pitfalls on the gameplay level as well. I'm thus certain that we'll all be in for a treat this November!
PS: RTG, if you don't include a 15-minute long "Mural-of-the-Balance"-style monologue in DF:C I'm taking back all the praise I wrote above! And I'm not kidding, I love that part! (ok, I may be kidding about taking back the praise though)
Um, it's still in alpha right, so why all the complaints now? I'm going to wait til I actually play it myself, before I form an opinion about it. There have been plenty of games where the review of it and my own personal opinions about it are wildly different.
I've got faith in Red Thread and can't wait to play it.
I will be that guy for today.. so... the bloom is outta control, please tone it down. I hope there will be an option to turn it off.
Nice! I just hope the gameplay is similar to The Longest Journey and Dreamfall, please don't make it an interactive movie like the new adventure games, stick to the same formula that made TLJ and Dreamfall great and memorable games. Thank you Red Thread Games for making this dream sequel come true, keep it up!
Guys, stop whining - you have not even seen the game, and already disappointed as spinster married at old age! I am sure that Ragnar, Dag, Martin and other guys from RTG will produce true masterpiece that you will admire for many years.
A team of RTG, I want to say thank you so much for what you share with your fans the results of you work. And we see that it is hard work . So you know - we believe in you and will always support you!
BTW, just wathed new gameplay video at http://www.gamereactor.no/previews/226974/Dr%F8mmefall+Kapitler/,
and it surpassed all expectations - a terrific, deep and fabulous atmosphere . I'm looking forward to the future release of a undoubtable masterpiece!
An interactive movie isn't much of a game.
I really don't get comments like that. Surely you all had some kind of faith in RT as a creative team? You trust their judgement and abilities on at least some level? It seems a pretty odd choice to back the project otherwise... Is not seeing what a group of people who's work you like produce next not still in the least bit exciting? And then you can judge when you've actually played it?
That said, perhaps I should follow RTG's advice and e-mail Molyneux directly! :-)
Ahh well and another KS backed game that is now off my anticipation list. /sigh
James Clayton: No, we obviously can't offer refunds. The Kickstarter funds makes up our production budget and, as you say, there's an inherent risk to Kickstarter: you may not always like the end result.
We do encourage people to come to us directly with their grievances, however, so that we can address them in that fashion: directly. Which is why we ask people to write us. Even though we can't offer refunds, we can at least hear our backers out and let them know that they're being listened to. It won't change what we're making, obviously, but we believe in customer support!
Thanks for the update!
Well, I for one, think it looks awesome and want nothing more than to see all my favourite character and a good story. Puzzles for me were always something secondary in adventure games.
It's possible to both focus narrative and have satisfying adventure gamey puzzles that feel woven in - see the Blackwell series. The puzzles don't make you grab for a walkthrough, but do take some mental energy to solve. Almost all of them feel natural to the story and the characters. Telltale is fun, but I definitely prefer and was led to believe that this would be leaning back to more TLJ style gameplay, where puzzles and narrative are blended together into a cohesive whole, but with less stupid puzzles than TLJ).
I guess the adventure game is still dead. We have this new thing that's adventure gamey in ways, but it's not really the same thing. Most genres have evolved in ways that have kept their heart - you still are shooting in fps, rts really haven't changed, you still minmax and role play in rpgs... But the modern adventure game just feels so different to me from what it used to be. Replacing involving the player with puzzles with involving the player with choosing the direction of the narrative is foolish. A narrative the player guides feels less authored and cohesive, weakening the narrative standpoint. And it forgets the tension against the narrative that puzzles provided, where getting the next narrative feels like a reward for working out the hard bits. This saps the games in both narrative and gameplay areas, weakening the prospect as a whole. Not to mention making the games a lot shorter.
The extra player tension in challenging puzzles makes narrative payoffs better. A mere choice doesn't provide the same kind of tension, as the payoffs are unknown. If the narrative is weak, you can be left wondering if you are getting a poorer experience due to choices you made, which can be a really sucky feeling. It's cool that games are able to provide this feeling, but I think it should be used very sparingly.
Anyway my 2 cents. The story and environment sound really good, and I can't wait to finish the story. It had better pay off and not be another cliffhanger.
Ooo, that sounds like treading on dangerous ground. Backing projects on Kickstarter is an inherently risky activity. Every project even has a section at the bottom of the page headed 'risks and challenges'. There are always going to people who are disappointed that a sequel to anything isn't what they hoped it'd be, whether they put their own money in or not. If creators start offering refunds to anyone who claims to be unhappy there could be a lot of holes in company balance sheets.
We're sorry to hear that you're unhappy.
Dreamfall Chapters *is* filled with mature dialogue and there *are* challenging puzzles further on in the game -- even if they are not the focus.
The focus is on the narrative, the characters and the worlds, something this game shares with both The Longest Journey and Dreamfall.
We don't think we've deceived or tricked anyone. We're making the game we set out to make and the game we promised our backers: a journey that embraces the magical and the magic of the mundane; a narrative that continues and concludes Zoë's story; and the next chapter in The Longest Journey saga.
If you still feel cheated or tricked, we're sorry for that. We know that we can't meet everyone's expectations, but we're certain that the end result won't disappoint.
If you disagree with that and need to contact us directly, please write us an email and we will try to help.
"A key goal, for this and future games, is to explore ways to build an interactive experience in which the process of playing is structured around narrative and characters rather than puzzles and roadblocks. In Chapters, occasional hurdles require intellectual prodding but, based on conversations with the team and the time spent with the game, the main challenge is to integrate emotional responses into an interactive narrative."
...oh, dear. Hate to sound so negative, but this sounds like exactly the opposite of what I was hoping for. I thought Red Thread were trying to avoid making another 'interactive movie' after people complained about the lack of gameplay in Dreamfall? What happened to the 'challenging puzzles' mentioned on the main page? Let's hope the article is right about there being more of those later in the game.
I meant are Broken Sword and Tex Murphy..
IS THAT A BAD JOKE?
DID I MISS SOMETHING?
HOW and WHEN DOES:
"a game filled with mature dialogue and challenging puzzles" (kickstarter text)
"Dreamfall Chapters isn’t a traditional adventure game" and
"Dreamfall is far closer to a Telltale game than it is to The Longest Journey"
Guys, seriously, THIS SUCKS BAD!!
And I think you tricked a lot of people during the kickstarter..
First Broken Age and now you guys? Damn!
Are Broken Age and Tex Murphy really the only ones who delivered what was promised?
Regarding the RPS article, I honestly don't like how point'n'click games have taken part in the whole "your choices matter!!!"-charade, because our choices really DON'T matter. Even in The Walking Dead, while the game did a good job of making it feel like a big game-changing decision, if you looked back at it after finish the game you realize it didn't matter.
For example if you get to choose who stays and who leaves between two people, no matter who you choose, the chosen person just leaves an hour later anyway, and with minimal impact on the plot or events within that hour. Or generally if you make the choice of not doing something, another character steps in and does it for you if the games script calls for it to happen.
I prefer a "linear" story where I don't have to worry about seeing all the different endings and all the different variations of the cutscenes so that I don't miss anything. Of course that might not be a problem for people without mild OCD, so I don't know.
It would be lovely to see bigger versions of those screenshots. Though it does look nice, even from those small images.
Great update! I read the preview and the only thing that i didnt like to read its "Tørnquist tells me that Chapters is “far closer to a Telltale game than it is to The Longest Journey”"
Please make more puzzles and hard ones. I love the story and exploration but i dont want to see another game oversimplified.
It looks so beautiful!! My dad and I are so psyched for this--we're replaying Longest Journey and Dreamfall actually and we've figured out how we can port Chapters to the big screen through my computer (Dad's eyes aren't what they were a decade ago :/).
So, are we to take it Jama won't be appearing in this one then?
(Saw the piece on RPS earlier, loving how promising it's all sounding.)