by Kingdom Death
I do have to echo all the people who are upset over not recieving the models - good as the game is, I suspect a lot of people really backed this for the miniatures. (After all, we knew your miniatures were good at the time. We had no way of knowing whether the game was). Will the miniatures - if not the Lantern Festival - go into the new kickstarter?
I think Adam and co have created a marvellous game and I'm truly happy with the stuff I received but I don't think this has been handled well. The lantern festival has been dangled out like a carrot for years now. I don't really care if the expansion wasn't fun to play, I mainly wanted it for the model. I suspect that it was simply too expensive and the decision was more financial than had otherwise been indicated. A terrible way to end an otherwise outstanding kickstarter.
There is an easy solution for Adam to satisfy those people (like myself) who mainly backed the lantern festival for the great miniatures at a very competetive price: offer only the minis from the lantern festival for 45 USD in the new kickstarter. Will it happen? Probably not, but the he should at least been honest in his update.
If the minis from the planned lantern festival are in the new kickstarter (or on the website in the next couple of months) at a higher price I would be really upset.
I wont lie, on the 25th that $45 is coming right back at you...
I was looking forward to possibly fighting 2 new monsters. My gaming group and I have completed all 3 settlement sheets and have been waiting for the festival. I'm a little more than disappointed. Though the idea of making villages and what not made encouraged my group to have settlement battles between the core survivors, sun, and dragon ppl. Even including the suneater and tyrant in a giant battle. This is my first complaint you should have at least sent out the models so we could have as I've already done with every expansion and miniatures I purchased from the kingdom death line up made our own rules scenarios.
@Ronald Wanders, I'm curious about that model too.
After all, he's clearly wearing full Phoenix armour... Is he a taste of an Armour kit 2.0? Maybe a special survivor we might meet out in the darkness? Or just an 'easy' model for people who just look at the armour kits and get Analysis Paralysis (Like me XD)?
If there were major problems getting the expansion working and the team needed to move on and devote their time elsewhere I would completely understand, but 'most people haven't finished the campaign yet so what's the point?' That is not a valid excuse and just really annoys me. I'm sure there were other reasons that were completely valid but after four years of waiting don't fob us off with that crap.
How about just the miniatures and any non story expansion materials (gear cards and such) for $20 - $30. I like the sound of developing the settlement into a town although I can see how that strays from the original concept.
Will there be a future attempt at the lantern expansions? Will we need to pay $100+ for it? I would hope that the original lantern expansion backers would at least get the option of buying in again for the $45. I would even be happy to not collect the refund and wait another few years if we were assured that it would eventually happen. I won't have the time or space to play an entire campaign for the forseeable future anyway.
I'm hoping that preview means there will be some dynamic looking pre-posed versions of all the armour kits.
Sad to see the Lantern Festival is cancelled, but I understand why you've decided to do so
hope we can see the minis in plastic in some form or other later on
see you at the next KS
After the complete quality game you already delivered and amazing gameplay, I can only respect your design decision and honesty. Do what you need to do to preserve the integrity of the game. Thanks for the refund, but you will be getting it back, plus a lot more on Black Friday!
I bought almost every single piece of KD:M that wasn't cheesecake at the plastic level (and was, in fact, very pleased with the two cheesecake minis I got incidentally). I say almost because I cannot remember if I forgot an incidental piece, but I am reasonably certain I bought all of it. I did this without hesitation, and have absolutely no regrets about my purchase. I waited with baited breath through the entire, read every update and scanned every gallery multiple times, sent pictures of the arrived boxes to all of my friends, and gleefully paraded the minis around for months (and still do, in fact).
I'm gonna level with you here, Poots: When I made that purchase, I expected the game to be a train wreck. An entertaining train wreck, probably, but a complete and total mess none-the-less.
It was hilariously ambitious, with lofty ideas, literally hundreds of moving parts, two and a half genres shoved together and tightly cinched with twine and duct tape and a penchant for ever-expanding rules that has spelled the doom for scores of game projects. The game had all the appearances of an inspired, ridiculous explosion. Watching the development process altered and informed that opinion, but that was only months after the fact.
I still spent nearly six hundred dollars on it without batting an eye.
This wasn't some kind of hail-mary 'I love these ideas and maybe just maybe it'll be good' sling-shot through my financial window. It was the miniatures. The incredible, creepy, horrifying, beautiful miniatures. There are a lot of high-quality miniature boutiques out there, but none of them have the consistency, quality and sheer *weight* of aesthetic that Kingdom Death has. Seeing so many truly amazing designs, backed up by a swathe of previous successes, was irresistible. The Spidicule currently sits just behind the corner at the end of a hall, waiting for new guests to catch it just out of the corner of their eye. The Dragon King is carefully displayed to almost everyone who visits my house. Every mini is, at some point, eagerly shown off, on a nearly monthly basis.
That the game was actually *good* was a bonus. An incredible bonus, a happy bonus, and a bonus I still enjoy playing regularly (albeit perhaps less than some), but still: a bonus. While I absolutely understand maintaining the creative integrity to say 'we were too ambitious. We dun goofed, and we could not, in good conscious, ship this to you as a completed product', it has little to no impact on my still-powerful desire to assemble and paint the Lantern King, which was, and is, almost certainly my favorite miniature of the whole lot.
I deeply respect your intentions, and the sincerity of your message (a consistent pattern throughout the entire design process!), but I am woefully disappointed at the abrupt loss of what might possibly have been one of my single favorite figurines. If you can find it, somewhere, in some piece of you, to make it available (I see that it is, apparently, *double* sold out in the boutique) to backers who were under the impression they had already purchased it, I would be eternally grateful.
Sad that the Lantern Festival had to be cancelled but I understand the decision and look forward Black Friday instead :)
This was a good decision on Adam's part. Now people shouldn't complain that this KS isn't over when he starts the next one. I too would have liked the models but I am sure I will be getting even more come Black Friday!
Well, that sucks. The scribe was by far my most anticipated purchase. I'm just a miniature collector and I REALLY wanted that one. I'd let you keep the $45 for that mini alone.
This is sad news but probably a good decision for Adam. This little refund will probably go towards the next campaign (launching on the 25th). Maybe then I'll finally be able to get the Kingdom Death Paladin! (Not the Kingdom Death Dark Paladin. She's not the one I've been waiting for).
Quite sad to hear this.
But it still leaves a couple of questions.
will We actually get the cards for the extra miniatures (Messengers etc.) or will we have to buy them again?
Will you get shirts in larger than 3xl, my gamer physique requires a couple of X'es more. :P
Thank you for refunding the full amount.pledge. It's much better than what Up Front or Airborne in your Pocket did for me. I am a bit upset at the time I spent agonizing on what the best extras to buy where ended up with me picking the Lantern Festival over product that actually shipped. Lots of missed opportunities there that can never be recovered. At least what I got isn't rubbish.
Thank you for putting the game before profits, Adam. Obviously there is disappointment (on the content front, I looked forward to a more complete ending and on the miniature front I needed the male GGH to complete my collection), but I respect the decision immensely. Once again, your professionalism and dedication reaffirms why Kingdom Death remains my addiction. I look forward to backing you again this month.
If the expansion wasn't coming along well this isn't the first we should be hearing of it. And not considering that a lot of backers pledged just for the miniatures is tone-deaf. I respect the full refunds, but regardless this could have been handled much better.
And a t-shirt "commemorating" not delivering part of the project at all 3 years after the campaign is in extremely poor taste.
I've recieved the refund link, but it's just asking me to send you money? How do I go about claiming my refund?
My respect for Poot's and his co-works has grown steadily over the last 3 years. My love for this game has swelled immensely. I own nearly everything produced for this game. All the plastic models, most of the Resign Models, and anything else I can get my hands on.
This only continues to increase my respect for Poots. This was an incredible move that very few people have the courage to make. To stand by his dream & creation despite the financial cost.
My hat is off to you Poots! Keep up the amazing work and I can't wait to see the King come back! I want that model :D
Oh and the T-Shirt.... that is a fantastic idea! I'm absolutely getting one and true fans will be as well! Ignore the "in poor taste" comments and money grubbers. Your doing the right thing and the shirt is a badge of honor in supporting a creator at the point where it matters the most.
Good on ya Adam, its fine that you had to cancel this one, because as you said, most of us haven't finished the stuff we had and it sounds like the expansion, as you explained it, didn't really fit into the KD:M story well.
It takes guts to refund people and then weather their criticizm, hopefully most people that backed you will understand the reasoning and support you in this decision.
I anticipate picking up the 1.4 rules/cards as well as the card set you mentioned for the extra figures from the last one. Hopefully we'll get some additional expansions from this KS as well, but if not, I'm still picking up the new ruleset.
One thought for your next kicker tho, perhaps offer a "lay-flat" version of the rules... many of us had to ring-bind our existing books due to the binding breaking ;). That or go the opposite direction and offer a hard-bound version once the rules are finalized
Thanks for all you do!
Well, hopefully this next Kickstarter goes smoother. I really want to get to all that new content.
Ringtail fox people, Frogdog, STORM KNIGHT. The Gryphon.
Nothing wrong with this decision at all, and the butthurt seams to be at a minimum. Thank you for the honesty and refund Poots!
Will the great game hunters and king still be released in plastic?
The only thing that bothers me about this update is that we won't get those awesome miniatures (especially the guy sitting with the book). I was looking forward to them.
Otherwise, this was handled better than any other kickstarter has in terms of actually refunding people for something you're owning up to. Thank you.
Thanks for the update, and for making the hard decision to keep Kingdom Death a quality game. I hope we can look forward to hearing about your ideas to use the Lantern Festival stuff in a future expansion.
I am a bit disappointed with this news, but once again I trust Adam's judgement.
I am mildly disappointed, but only because I enjoy the KD:M content so much. No problem, I'll be able to play this sometime in the future, in a better form, no less. I am sure this is the right decision and that the situation has been handled well.
I'm looking forwards to the next KS! I am nursing my wallet, in preparation of the beating it will take. Roll on Black Friday!
I was waiting for this update with impatience. Obviously I'm sad but I totally understand Adam's decision.
KD: M is probably the kickstarter for which I am most proud to have participated. Adam you are a dreamer, an artist, a crazy but certainly not a good manager or a good logistician. Yet you have delivered a product well above my expectations. The huge base game (more than expected), the extensions made with care and passion. Nothing was sloppy. It was long but it was for the quality.
When we had to pay for the wave 2 (or 3 depending on point of view) I understood that Adam level budget was very limited.
That people put it well in the skull. The money for this kickstarter funded to a game, a dream. Not a person. I do not think Adam did a lot of profit on the transaction. On the contrary I think that without the sales shop in parallel was bankrupt ...
This decision was due to be difficult to take but when you take the time to think it was doomed to failure:
An extension with only two bosses and armor to extend 25-year campaign? For $ 45? Adam was too optimistic. But will we blame for this? no. Not me anyway.
I'll be there in 2.0. I already know that the lantern festival will be proposed 2.0 more expensive but also better built.
People are so egocentric that they forget how they can be hurtful and hateful.
Fantastic artbook! Kingdom Death has amazing illustrators. Thanks to them.
Concerning KS2: I hope we can have new expansions (will we ever see the jungle queen, whose illustration has been around for some time now?)
Please consider offering an add-on for the body location dice. We need more when fighting legendary monsters.
Concerning Survival of the Fittest: I still think this card is far weaker than the "Protect the Young" principle. I chose the Survival of the Fittest in the first campaign and it was a real pain in the ass ('scuse my language): so many birth deaths and no special child ever. With "survival of the fittest", you have 1/100 chance to have a special child, whereas with "protect the young" it is 1/10. Even with +1 strength and the reroll of the new version, it is still unbalanced. Boost it or weaken the "protect the young with a malus", so that the choice becomes even.
And how about scenery bases as an add-on, such as the one of the new mini?
Sad news indeed, but I wholeheartedly respect the decision. Thank you for the past 4 years of staying true to your vision - I've already spent the refund in the shop and I'll see you all again on November 25th.
"you can easily set one up by following the instructions on your refund email from paypal."
Anyone know where to find this email?
Sweet, any idiot under the sun can download the artbook by just looking at this page and clicking the link (I just checked) it was a major reason I backed years and years ago for more than a dollar. That's hilarious. Thanks.
I'll join my voice with the others saying that I'm proud that you're sticking to your vision, Adam. The care you've put into making all of this so amazing comes through loud and clear, and anyone complaining is simply upset that we aren't getting more of it! I'm already saving up the money for the next Kickstarter - I'm going to be spending quite a bit of money all over, and I'll be thrilled throughout the whole process!
KDM has given me a chance to try painting miniatures for the first time ever, and I found a new hobby I love! And I carried the game with me to all sorts of places, even when I'm visiting family and friends in my hometown, I'll do my best to condense it and bring it with me. Every group I've ever played with has fallen in love with the game, and I try to be a KDM ambassador whenever possible.
So, in short, keep doing what you're doing. Your vision has taken us to some amazing places, and we all can't wait for more!
I'd be lying if I didn't admit I was disappointed with this development, but the full refund, combined with the quality of the content you did produce, lessens the sting. I feel like I still got an excellent deal out of this Kickstarter, though I'm not sure I'll ever go that big on any Kickstarter (yours or otherwise) again. The KS experience is such a roller coaster @.@.
I would still like to have access to a way to continue my campaigns at some point. If you're wondering if end-game content would be worth developing in the future, I'd just like to put it out there that there's at least one person looking for something to fill the spot left open by the cancellation of the Lantern Festival!
why should anyone back your second kickstarter when you failed to fulfill the first one
Okay sad news about the Lantern Festival but I respect the decision and the reason given.
Adam, well done on a creating a fantastic game and taking us on an amazing journey, this whole oddysey was a bit of magic you created I am so glad to have been a tiny part of it.
Did you pledge for the Lantern Festival add on ?
You have a very strange view of failure. KS is about supporting products being developed and going to market - lots change between funded and delivery - I am more than satisfied with Adan's explanation and the refund for what is just one of many add-ons. The main project and all the other add-ons have been delivered. I think most of the backers and some new backers will be answer your question shortly.
Don't care of cards and game, I want the King, can I have only the King for 45$ ? ç___ç
Anyway thanks for refund.
@savage - I'm more than satisfied with the results of my original pledge. Adam delivered on my expectations and then some. It was a stretch goal that slipped (Lantern Festival). Missing that one expansion does not prevent me from enjoying the rest of the massive amount of content we got for such a great price, and we all were refunded, so I have no reason to be salty about it.
If you are OK with not getting the expansion, more power to you, really! I understand where you are coming from. I am very happy with the game I got, I even contributed gladly to the tip jar back when we were asked to pay extra shipping and did not complain, I considered it more than fair. I also respect Adam's decisions about the gameplay (I think being faithful to his vision has consistently paid off) and understand why he was not happy with the campaign the way he has explained it. But aren’t we allowed to complain that we are not getting those 4 minis (5 if you consider the twilight cloak a mini) we paid for? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be happy with getting just the minis and would not reject the idea of double-dipping in the future when he’s completely happy with the rules and the expansion is released! I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation, and his vision would not be compromised. Again, I’m very happy with what we’ve got, but I am extremely disappointed because I stayed for the gameplay, but came for the minis (surely some of other backers backed this for this reason), especially the scribe and game hunters in my case (they were the very first think you saw when you started scrolling down on the main page!).
Sad news, but 1- We had a good explanation, 2- We got a refund, and most importantly 3- We may yet see those figures again in the future.
King and Scribe are very cool, but given how much background info the Great Game Hunters received from different resin kits, they're probably the part I want to see the most (maybe a dedicater Hunter expansion, with Ammo Slaves, Doctors and Cooks?).
Nobody remembers if it was late, only if it was great.
While I'm dissapointed it was canceled, I'd rather see the expansion done right rather than rushed out the door as a poor-quality shadow of what could have been. I appreciate the honesty and the sacrifice, and would rather see something done proper rather than being rushed out the door and have quality suffer like what happened with Relic Knights.
I also forgot about the annual Halloween sale and missed out on a Trick or Treat bag and the necromancer. While disappointing, on the bright side it just means I simply have more money to funnel into your next kickstarter.
this of course is a sad turn of events but understandable. I'd like to say though I understand that for a campaign extension to work it needs new armour and mechanics that the lantern festival was just not the right expansion for the job. I do still wish to see my sentiment grow into a town and please don't make "accessibility" an issue. in fact I would find an extension more accessible as it can be added to my current campaign. most other expansions I feel like I need to have them at the beginning to plan properly.
I'm quite sad to hear this. Thanks for this update.
We are with u for making the hard decision to keep Kingdom Death a quality game. Hope we can look forward to hearing about your ideas to use the Lantern Festival stuff in a big future expansion not the small one that was designed. The new vision of Lantern Festival mean the village had grown into a small town? (pop 100+?)
(Possible to see chinese lantern festival history as kingdom-death-monster vision?)
when on the 25th the kickstater will air ?
please write a timezone too :)