by Sandy Petersen
Aah, I think I know, what "goofy" Civ this might be ... or what realistic interpretation of it ;) if so – quite cool!
I'm with Ville. Being a completionist is a personality trait that you (we) have to deal with individually. We shouldn't put the onus on the game designer to give us FEWER choices so we can "have it all," so to speak. We've got the rules, we've got the civ powers and effects, we've even got charts to make choosing easier. If the $300 all-included package is too much, or 25 civs is too many, go for something smaller. The game will be no less complete. If you want a bit more variety, add a few civs and call it a night.
Sure, if you end up wanting all 25 later, the aftermarket is going to be rough. That's supply and demand. If you start small and end up loving the game, you might think the aftermarket prices are worth it. Or you might not and you'll still enjoy the game. If you start with everything and end up not liking the game, at least you have the opportunity to be a seller in the aftermarket space and (probably) make more than your money back. It's all up to you.
It looks like Sandy has designed another knockout game. It's not his responsibility to cater to our FOMO.
I can definitely see where the desire for smaller campaigns is coming from: it's the completist that lives inside of our minds that would rather have a game with only 8 civs available than being able to choose 8 civs out of 25. For me, it manifests in so many other areas besides games: I need to have all the records of my favorite bands and all the books of my favorite authors - even all the ones that I know are crappy. If I were strapped for cash I'd probably detest not being able to go all-in and being "forced" to pick and choose civs. However, since I can at this point in life luckily spend a couple of hundreds on a boardgame without it hurting my bank balance in any real way, I found the scope of this campaign to be perfect; had there been only, say, 12 civs for half the price I would've been significantly less likely to back the game - knowing that I could get it ALL satisfied that very completist that is hurting some others right now.
That's one angry rabbit.
Is the blurred picture behind that dragon-ogre perchance?
Woops - meant to post that in the general comments. ...and the conversation has since moved on anyway. Nothing to see here...I guess... : P
There's no reason for anyone to feel down. You can't please everyone and design and publishing choices will always please some and disappoint others. I'm just grateful that we're living in a time in which designers and publishers who create the game they want - and customers who love those games and choices - can find each other. Variety and freedom are luxuries we're enjoying now we folks who love games and the shared experiences they bring.
In the update, it would help to be reminded what the future MSRP will be. That would help folks decide how much to pledge now, or in the pledge manager later. (The MSRP was probably mentioned someplace already, but I don't see it on the main page and don't have time to search for it.)
@Sandy, that's my point. Getting a hold of other civs not chosen will be much more difficult later on and the aftermarket tends to be quite unreasonable. A company like FF can afford to release a lot of choices (for say, Imperial Assault, for instance), because they have regular distribution and choosing now doesn't mean you won't be able get something later (rather than much, much later with Hyperspace civs).
I want to keep expressing that everything looks great and I appreciate your receptiveness in the comments and answering questions and the excitement you have for your game... all of that is great. I have lots of respect for you and what you make.
But the logistics of the above choice (120 and 2 civs vs all in) basically means the only real choice is the all in pledge and stay at 1 dollar. The game looks tremendously successful, though, so it's not like there is any real loss for you, Sandy. Just expressing where I'm coming from.
@Jon Mercurio Knight - well, there will in fact not be 25 civs when the game hits stores. Of COURSE that's too many for distributors to handle. We are going to pick 6-8 civs from the mix, and those are the only ones we're going to put into distribution. In fact, I should do an update on that.
I am actually pleased you cared enough to give me your information Bryan. If we agreed on every single point, then one of us would be superfluous.
@Sandy and Jon
I"m sorry to have re-started that discussion here, because though it's an important discussion this is not the place or time for it.
Sandy, forgive an old fool of a friend. A great campaign is nearing its final minutes, and I want you to enjoy it. I'm enjoying it!
@Sandy, I don't think you understand how hard it is to choose 2 civs out of 20-21, especially knowing what the after market likely will be, or else wait 2-3 years to maybe have another chance at getting other civs. 25 is way too many for a brand new property unless you had regular distribution like Fantasy Flight and so getting a hold of these civs would be fairly easy.
so, will it be possible to ship the april 1st civ with hyperspace? I'd hate to pay another 15$ shipping to eu just for one civ
The thing is that none of the smaller PG games with less content have done as well on KickStarter. That’s got to say something about bigger being the preference.
I should say, 120-140ish.... at the most.
no one has to pay $300! You can get in for $119 for a perfectly fine space game, plus you get to pick and choose two of the civs AND get space monsters.
I'm with Bryan on this. I would have been happy to spend around 120, get the core with everything needed for a 5-6 player game, say 2 extra civs that I don't have to try to choose from over 20. Then after I have gotten the game, played it a couple times, confirmed I definitely do like it, at that point Campaign 2 with all of the rest of this and I'm in!
I admire the passion and talent in all of that and the models all look fantastic... but this is what has kept me on the fence. At 120, I would have backed without hesitation for a space 4x game along these lines. For 300? I'm just going to have to wait and see at 1 dollar... and see how I feel when the pledge manager hits.
All of the civs look fantastic... and I'm not going to choose between them to get the 6 playable races for a 5-6 player game, or even to have 2 extra options for a 4 player game. Why? Because I don't know. Haven't played the game. Don't know what is really tempting. Just like Cthulhu Wars, I looked at the first campaign of that and I could not justify the expense for an unknown like that. It wasn't until OS3, after I had played the game, that I was all in.
I just can't see how 25 civs is worse than 12 civs. No one has to buy them all.
But I'm very happy for Sandy. Congratulations for making such a great product, and having a KS campaign go so well!
I'm one of the ones who said that PG campaigns are too big, offering a couple of years' worth of content all at once for a price that is too high to pay all at once, especially if you would like to buy everything PG offers (as I would).
As I clearly spelled out at BGG, these 3 choices all feel bad for different reasons:
- Get it all now, but spend $300 all at once.
- Get it all gradually, but miss the nearly 50% discount.
- Get just some, but miss all the rest of the wonderful-looking content.
The offer of huge content at a huge discount which still makes a huge price is wonderful for many, but it is dismaying to many others.
I am delighted with HS's success. I believe PG's success would be greater in the long run if they offered their content more gradually as most games are, allowing their customers time to get acquainted with it all, renewing interest and expanding their customer base each time new expansions are released, and avoiding the sticker shock of the initial all-in cost.
I am very saddened that this view is simply dismissed as "weird".
The stasis box will actually not be finalized by April 1st. So the truth is, whether or not the kewl new civ fits in it will depend on how many people seem to want it - if it's really popular, we'll adjust the stasis box accordingly.
The secret additional items have now all been revealed. We are not able to change the text of the pledges after the campaign starts - think of it as "fossil text".
@Corey those secrets were the space monsters revealed in updates throughout the campaign.
For the higher tiered pledges, "Secret Additional Items to be Revealed!" is this not the case? Or is that still TBD as production gets rolling?
I really appreciate how you've run this Kickstarter.
Hmm. I am choosing then to consider my first PG April 1st KS item as a crossover promo. That is, if a player attacks my alien, I am throwing my rock at them.
Please make it fit in the stasis box thank you.
This must be the race of Space kittens you mentioned 5 days ago. :)
Can you please make sure the big box can also hold this civ?
Wow, it's so blurry! This secret is almost as secret as the secret 25th faction!!
Argh!!!! A swing and a miss. Fit not for. Dang you autocorrect.
Will the April 1 Civ for in the Stasis box?
There I asked it first. I win. :-)
so it is not a stretch goal?
It's not really blurred, right?
Sigh. How much money will you be taking from me in April?