by Obsidian Entertainment
oops, put comment on wrong update
Great update. The spell system sounds intriguing. I like that you are considering having the last level of spells require rest.
Great update as usual, so refreshing to read that there are still people out there that care deeply about the games they make.
Can't wait to play! :)
Wiggle room. Better to give us a late date and release early than the other way around.
"about a year from now?" So that means estimated release date October-November 2013? Thats great! So why does it say April in the delivery estimate?
RTwP is great ! Go on Obsidian !
And I'll add something else : it's absolutely OK to put more content in the game than what you can see in one single playthrough ! Make my choices meaningful !
"press exposure is not the point of a Q&A"
Given that the fund drive is still ongoing the more publicity the better. Do you think that it is only incidental that one or another project lead is giving an interview on an almost daily basis? Seeing how the funding has slowed down over the last couple of days with still a number of stretch goals unmet any 'exposure' that gets the word out is a positive for this project.
@david that's actually one of the disadvantages of reddit. Aside from sifting through the trash, comments can get upvoted or downvoted without adding anything constructive to the discussion.
@bryy ok first of all the forum isn't private, secondly press exposure is not the point of a Q&A
AMAs get noticed in the press a lot more than a post on a private forum.
What's the big deal with them using Reddit? Good questions got up-voted, and it's exposure.
Star Craft allows queuing commands. I think it's a great idea for RT games, since you can't possibly switch fast enough between units at all times. It's less needed in a RTwP game, of course, but could still be convenient if you wanna play quick. (Challenge mode where pause is disallowed?)
dunno why on earth you did a q&a on reddit other than to pander, unnecessary in my opinion. just use your forums ffs
@ Scot L.
RTwP is perfectly viable for cRPGs, as proven in the past, but I can see your point as well. Queueing commands would be nice, but that's basically going against the whole real-time with pause concept, where you act in real-time unless you wish to pause to issue the next command.
Considering that Project Eternity is still in its funding phase, it makes perfect sense to have more than one or two platforms to spread the word.
Bemused with the use of Reddit, surely you could have used Kickstarter or your own forums.
@Scot L. Oh yes, a command queue system would be great. At least for a move and an attack.
One thing that eggs me about the few RPG RTwP games I have played is, every command is relative to the character's current position. It would be nice if you could queue up a move order then queue them to cast a spell. In other words, tell them to cast a fire blast 2 feet in front of them in the direction from where they just came from. Otherewise, I have to first tell them to move there, then wait till they get there to achieve the exact position of the spell I wanted. Having to pause too much because you can't queue up complex strings of commands drives me away from real time games. I just do not want to babysit them every two seconds to get it done right. I want sort of a command and forget for 15-20 seconds. I guess just have a picture of a football playbook in my head when it comes to directing in games. I would like to make a play, and change it half way in when something I didn't expect happens.
Could we add a bard type class in Project Eternity?
I really don't understand the real-timers demand that fights must be cinematic. In your typical RPG you will have to watch the same cinematics 80 million times. What's the point?
On the other hand, with party-based control, well... look at what it is emulating: a group of individuals each controlling their actions in real-time. That's what a band of fighters is in the real world, after all. And each of those people knows when it is time to cease one attack and start another. Or to start doing something with their left hand while they swing a sword with their right hand (while ducking their head... while...). You either have to control them with AI (what I find wrong with this approach is that I like to control things and make decisions - that's why I game, after all), or you turn-base it so you have time to set everyones' options and to respond to what all of the enemies did.
Or you can hybridize the two approaches and put automatic pauses in when there's an opportunity to (or a sudden need to) change or update one or more party-members' actions. Knights of the Old Republic used this method fairly effectively. I think this is what they plan for this project (I could be wrong).
I hope they do not mean that you have to watch the cinematics avidly to determine when a new order is necessary and then slam the space bar to pause things to enter a new order.
Real-Time WIth Pause can potentially have much MORE tactical depth than Turn-Based. With Pause, you can do all the planning and control you get in turn based, but real-time enemies do not sit around and let you freely move/attack until it's their turn to move. That alone innately means Real-Time With Pause has capacity for 1 level more depth/tactical play.
The misconception with real time is because for turn-based game, it is easy to make a "normal" difficulty that is playable for casuals but still somewhat challenging for veteran players. It is very difficult to do the same with real-time, since increase in difficulty exponentially increase the player skill requirement. Hence normal difficulty in real-time with pause are usually too easy for veterans, truly challenging real-time with pause gameplay are in higher difficulty modes. Sadly, surveys and player statistics have shown that very minuscule amount of players even attempt the highest difficulty where real-time with pause system truly shine in all its glory. Dragon Age 2 Nightmare Mode is one of the prime example of how amazing real-time with pause can be, but less than 1% of players played it in nightmare. Most players play it on normal (face-roll easy), and very few in hard (which doesn't even have friendly fire). It is one of the biggest mis-understanding in games.
A most encouraging update! I'm especially glad that you're focusing on the single-player experience as this has been the core of the project from day one.
I don't mind mods being added as a bonus (if there was a second Kickstarter campaign further down the road for adding mods I would probably back that as well) but I prefer that all the money from this campaign goes towards enriching the world you are creating (storyline, characters, history, combat system, non-combat systems etc etc).
Oh, question #4 I meant.
This questions relate to combat interface and system. I liked post about non-combat skills and how you can gain experience by solving solution not in brutal way. But I guess this is minority, so that questions won't get up to board team. Also there was question about romances in game in forum. Hmm, interesting idea to the plot, but I think it should have option turn it on/off, hehe.
Great update, BUT, please tell me you're not referring to per-ability-cool-downs a la WoW in question #2. I hate that, and consider it a lazy solution to skill "balance". If you just meant the game can be paused when a character is ready to take a new action, that's fine.
Would local co-op work, with 2 mice plugged in, 2 colour-coded cursors, and each player controlling 1/2 of the party or one party each?
Or is that just crazy talk? lol
LAN play would be best of course ;)
I prefer RTS combat with pause. It lets me have as much or as little control as I like on a fight-by-fight basis.
For boss battles and when I'm leveling up, I want full control; when I overlevel the mobs, I have a massive party, and I'm fighting the same mobs for the 100th time, I don't want the tedium of having to assign each attack action.
And this is coming from someone who enjoys playing Civ on Marathon speed (though towards the endgame I tend to set the workers to automate as it starts getting tedious, but this is the same idea).
@Michael Melnikoff Actually, I dont like the mods and I dont use them mostly because I prefer play the game exactly like the developers made it. They balance the quest, enemies, levels, classes, races, etc, and take some time to test this balance. Many people who mod dont test or dont balance. In example, I remember a "balancing" mod to BG, which become the Werewolf druid very overpowered. Anyway, we all are here because we love the deep stories and characters that used to fill the Infinity Engine games. And we dont need mods for that.
I do hope the ability to mod makes it in! I'm not a fan of cheat mods, or big game-changing mods in general, but I love mods that add quests and extend gameplay, and I always look into them once I've completed the game vanilla-style a time or three.
I love the Q&A! But please consider picking up Q's from other places besides just Reddit? Perhaps a thread on the game's forum where game backers could post Q's, and you could do Reddit AMA's and backer Q&A's. I'm looking forward to more Q&A's, regardless of your choice!
So there still won't be any co-op in the game? Cause that would be lovely.
@Derek Belanger Wow, your description of how turn based combat is enjoyable was awesome... Personally, I like the Baulders Gate style RTwP with pause conditions. If you can set pause conditions like enemy death, you still get most of that feeling, when you look over and where an emeny once was there are just chunks, and Minsc has just murdered a Vampiric Mindflayer... still pretty satisfying :)
I thinkt he ability to use mods would be cool, all of the elder scrolls games showcase the benefits of a big modding community pretty well. I think the idea of being able to make new classes or have packages with tons of new classes would be pretty cool. Looking forward to this game. Keep up the good work guys!
Yeah, I don't like mods either
I prefer to play a game the way it was originaly designed
I have to disagree with Michael, I never use mods and don't really care much about them. What I want most is a solid and thoroughly tested game.
Moddability is an extremely important feature. Extremely important. Every single one of the old PC RPGs from BG to Arcanum I played modded. Newer RPGs like Dragon Age 2 suck because they disallow mods. Letting your customers do development for you is one of the easiest ways to make your game better.
LOL See? Even my typing is slow and Porthos beat me to it! No flipping way I'd ever survive in an RTS game. And I play games for enjoyment and to get a-w-a-y from the stress of dealing with real life split second decicions. If I want stress, I don't have to go to the gaming world to find it. There's plenty all around me!
Quote from Q&A answer (CAPS are mine for emphasis): "I mean you CAN pick the actions of each party member if you want. We will have lots of pause conditions in our combat, and IF YOU WANTto have the game pause whenever a party member can perform a new action, you can do that."
It sounds to me, from that quote, like you can play with or without pauses. So, I feel like it will work fine for me, who will enable every pause condition there is to make it as close to turn-based as possible and be able to dictate the movements of my party members. And it also sounds like it will work fine for you, Ben, and anyone else who wants real-time combat. Just disable the pauses.
@Tim Cain - Did I get that right? That the pauses are optional and controllable by the player?
haha i le love it when my le favourite developers go on le reddit!!! xD le funny meemee face me le gusta! xD
@Ben Then it's a good thing that it is an option so that people that don't like it can turn it off, isn't it? :)
Me, personally,. I HATEHATEHATE RTS games. With a burning passion. I just don't have the reflexes to enjoy them.
I almost didn't back this game when it first appeared, except it said that there was some sort of pause feature in combat. So I took the plunge, hoping it would be something like BG.
And when Tim described the mechanic today? I was very happy. Because it was close enough to TBS for me to go ahead and feel glad about the project.
Besides, there are so few TBS RPGs nowadays that I'll take almost any game that is close to them. ;)
It was crap in any IE of those. Again - RTS is about making decision under pressure. A pause button makes that pointless.
I'm really glad they're going with a real time with pause system. It worked great in Baldur's Gate and the other IE games. Actually, it's one of the pillars of those games, and since OE is promising a game in the IE spirit real time with pause is the only way to go. If this would become a turn based game I honestly wouldn't have pledged for it. Turn based always gets boring for me after a while. I even never actually finished a game that uses turn based mechanics (either RPG or strategy), so these days I don't even bother with them.
And without trying to be bitchy (yes really): If all you can see in a real time combat game is "a bunch of random stuff happening chaotically" you're really doing it wrong. The pause option is there to help you keep the oversight when needed.
But this pause whenever a party member has a chance to perform an action sounds close enough to turn based to me
To be honest, I have yet to find a game that played interesting using real time with pause - that plague has been pulling games down since the Baldur's Gate days - by far the worst part of any game that ever used them ....
There is a reason why it is never used in strategy games - you combine the lack of tension of turn based games with the reduced complexity of RTS games. Or to say it the other way around - you have a game mechanic that is build for making decisions in real time although you can take as much time as possible ...
Anyways, I gave up that fight a long time ago.
Having played both the IE games and NWN, I fail to see what is "tactical" about them. Basically just a bunch of random stuff happens rather chaotically, so if you want any sort of control over things, you have to hit pause every other second.
I'll take the worst turn based gameplay over that
I like this format, and most of what I heard.
Generally, I prefer pure turn-based, but I think this will be a reasonable compromise. Turn-based does not necessarily guarantee more interesting or complex strategy.
Hope to see more information posted here in the near future.
@Greenfr0G - Various members of the development team including Feargus come on kickstarter regularly and chat with the pledgers in the comments section. Also they also communicate on the eternity forums and have done many other things.
Q&A are interesting, but why don´t you ask your fans here, on Kickstarter, or on forums? Why only Reddit users? I, for one, didn´t even knew you were doing such an event :/
Nonetheless, I like the answers. My only question is: why it a problem to do Unity moddable game? No tools available? You´d have to create TDK yourselves?
With respect to the RTwP question, I didn't back and do not plan to buy Wastland 2 specifically because it is turn based. I <3 RTwP, I loath turn based games. So thank you!
I like these Q&A updates!
Daniel, Martin, you guys speak as if you didn't have a choice of around 15 companions for a party size of 6 in BG or BG2. Picking and choosing your companions based on class is exactly what happened in those games, and they didn't tend to wait in hubs if you didn't choose them - sometimes they simply were no longer available, and sometimes they just stayed where they were. Nothing Tim said here made me think this game would in any way deviate from the party mechanics laid out in earlier Infinity Engine games.
I agree with you, Daniel. Hubs are lame. They are unrealistic. It's okay if some of the NPCs have nothing better to do than wait at your house, but I would much prefer if they went about their own business (even if that's sometimes less convenient).
real-time with pause combat and parties. this.