by Obsidian Entertainment
The veil probably slows the bullet enough that the armor can stop it.
"...build a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude..."
You have our gawatitude.
Yeah, but it would also be effective against knights and people relying on armor without magic.
Basically, arquebuses would inflate the cost of armor since all armor would need to be enchanted in order to be bulletproof. Arquebuses looks like good weapons against the targets that can't afford both plate armor and enchantments.
I like the idea that giant sea monsters are stopping people from exploring other parts of the world, kinda makes me think that they are 'reserving' those areas for future content hehe. Obviously if the game world (which is shaping up to being quite nice) has the level of depth that other DnD games have I would quite happily continue to invest in future contributions to the project.
While Arquebuses at close range could penetrate armour, Landsknechts (f.ex.) kept wearing plate for quite some time after that, and crossbow bolts could do the same long before firearms. Also it's possible gunpowder invented by the alchemists of Eternity isn't quite as good as ours while their plate is a bit better.
well according to a mythbuster experiment, a book has more chance of stoping a bullet than a frying pan. thick paper and leather generate more friction than a heavier but thinner metal sheet. this way they stop the bullet's rotation, taking away its penetrating ability, thus making it a faster than average slingshot rock that does blunt and not piercing damage
Please, do it with the graphics of icewind dale, not beter :P
I for one hope they don't re-treat magic as being in opposition to technology like in Arcanum, which was cool but no need to do the same thing again. Doesn't really seem like that's what they're doing though.
Early firearms like the arquebus are all smooth-bore; their bullets didn't rotate. Besides, the rotation is mostly there for the sake of accuracy, not penetration. I'm basically nitpicking here since it seems quite reasonable that books stop bullets better than frying pans, but not for the reason you state.
I would rather think books are better because the bullet can bend the steel of the frying pan away, while a book is to thick for that; the pages would need to be forced away at a right angle to the bullet's travel direction. That requires a lot of force.
They already detailed in the text, that people don't use firearms, because they are not useful against the types of creates and enemies they have to fight.
Yes, but I'm pointing out that the update is self-contradictory. Saying you have the equivalent of arquebuses in the game but that said weapon is no good against plate armor is a self-contradiction. The two statements ' these weapons are not employed extensively by military forces' and 'arquebuses' cannot both be true unless man-vs-man battles in which armor is used are rare or the military leaders are stupid. Early firearms were rarely used in isolation; their wielders often had swords as well or, at a minimum, bayonets which were replacements for spears in contrast to the largely ornamental varieties we have today. The firearm would take down an armored enemy or an enemy at a distance while the melee weapon were used when the enemy came too close to permit reloading.
Love this update!
Tormod, I believe you are underestimating the strength of plate armour vis a vis a wheellock musket. Muskets weren't adopted primarily because they were the most effective weapon, but that they were powerful and easy to use for the battlefield conditions of Western Europe and in Japan. Armour was and remained prohibitively expensive and fell out of popular use, but high-quality cuirasses were mostly immune to penetration from musket balls.
This is a fantasy game, not a military simulation. So, let's the imagination of the devs control the physics.
Please, God, no firearms... it just breaks the "fantasy" feel. Do it with magic instead...
I want fireams. i like all ideias
Reminder that Gygax statted out arquebuses for D&D and that many D&D settings feature science fantasy-type stuff, like Spelljammer. Doesn't break fantasy for me, just makes it even more fantastic that they are included.
Yes, but high-quality plate armor cost more than regular plate armor, and not everyone who can afford plate armor can afford high-quality plate armor and if you just add on more low-quality steel the you'd need to ride on something because you probably can't carry it yourself. This is also highly dependent on the range. What I'm saying is that it changes the economics of war equipment, largely making it futile to use heavy armor on foot unless your armor is ridiculously expensive, for example.
A level 1 ranged character with an arquebus is to a level 1 fighter-style character what a knife is to butter; the fighter is better off staying at home. That's significant, and it alters the battlefield until it no longer looks quite as middle-age-ish as was impressed on me by this update.
Oh, and I'm aware that I'm derailing any discussion here. I just care about this game. If this was CoD I wouldn't have bothered :)
Good stuff Obsidian.
Nice Kentucky Fried Movie quote. Well played.
Not a fan of firearms D:
Sounds awesome! A nice break from pure sword-and-shield RPGs. Granted I imagine both will be used extensively but at least it won't be another "HEY WE'RE AN RPG AND YOU CAN IMAGINE YOU'RE ARAGORN FOR HOURS!!!"
Love the context given to firearms and exploration. Basically sounds like and alternate (and obviously fantasy) history of the dawn of the European Imperialist era. Safe to say I'm getting more and more psyched with every update. Might even up my pledge. ;) Keep it coming!
Sweet! Really looking forward to finding out a little more on how you guys are planning to build the game from a tech standpoint. Very encouraging update today too. The world you're creating is slowly beginning to coalesce but can I say I really like the vibe of doubt and uncertitude you're seeding. This will open the doors for plenty of metaphysical and philosophical discussions. Wonderful for exploring real-world questions and also for infusing concrete and individual character to the various cultures we will encounter.
So what I am reading is that the gods are fucking with their followers and magic users can wear armor. I love it.
Very pleased that firearms may be implemented. Reminds me of those heady Arcanum days...
Well, I hope in this game will be companions with random classes to make diffenrent parties every signle game.
I'm more excited about this project every time I read an update. Even though it has elves and dwarves.
So, I'm going to be a badass Dwarf in a Tudor frock popping caps in peoples' arses with a flintlock. DONE.
I'll probably call him Dornidan Stormbrow because I'm lame.
Great post! Very intriguing stuff, especially the different sorts of souls and how they might lend themselves to various character types and classes.
Souls, firearms and ships. Sounds alot like Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader
Souls that co-exist with another soul in a body?! Man, I can't wait get my dirty little hands on this game!
You guys did a ptich video? I just saw Obsidian and Kickstarter and pledged as much as I could afford. (That's a lie - i threw down slightly more than I could afford)
Great update. Sounds really good that you are mixing high fantasy concepts with late middle age advancements. Also very much looking forward to the update about the technology.
Off-topic: Is that PJ Harvey behind your head? This is getting even more Awesome! :D
Fantastic update, a couple things in particular stand out:
-I like all the possibilities you have created with souls in your lore. I further hope you try and keep the understanding of how souls work under constant questioning and scrutiny by the player. With multiple souls, will that mean we could have a character that could actually switch their skill set around by changing out the souls that inhabit the body (similar to Rift)?
-Normally I dislike firearms in a Classic Fantasy Setting, mainly because developers turn them into 19th century cartridge based firearms, because they think players will dislike the long reload times of wheel-lock, flintlock and matchlock firearms. However, I love the idea of making them a key weapon against magical barriers. Pirates and Highwaymen we're known to carry several firearms and I hope a character can be built this way as a sort of anti-mage class.
-Finally, every fantasy game needs a giant sea monster boss. My advice, put us between the Scylla and Charybdis.
@Tormod Gjeitnes Hellen
In the end it's a fantasy world. You should never apply the standard, real world rules in it. It has to be believable on it's own right. Maybe their explosives are not as powerful as the ones we came up with. Maybe, their metal is just ... different and tougher. Maybe they use magic to re-enforce the metal plating. Maybe they have an easy method of hardening and tempering the metal armor, that made it cost effective to produce.
There are all kinds of very, very good reasons as to why a fantasy world is different, developed different than our world did. That's a good thing. If they wanted to make a medieval game set in our own world history, they would've done so. They don't, so don't try to over-analyse things with logic based on the development of our world.
Enjoy the difference. It makes for more interesting and varied story telling.
"(notably absent: the printing press)" Curious. Great update. Thank you very much for all your hard work, dedication and passion.
You should spice up your Stretch Goals with some art a little, people tend to like that for some reason on Kickstarter.
Anyway I know this will be most likely pointless because you guys practically pioneered this, but just make sure every item, every weapon and piece of armor even those most basic ones have some kind of unique description and art (items with their own history were the best part of Planescape: Torment). I don't know why so many developers disregard this but when the items in RPG feel generic and copy/pasted the entire game feel boring, bland and empty (I'm looking at you Bethesda).
Same thing with GUI and Invetory. Most of the recent RPGs feel like you're doing generic spreadsheets work and they break all immersion with their dullness. Sadly your Fallout New Vegas actually felt kinda like that, implementing PIP Boy as your invetory and overall GUI was pretty neat but having what basically was text-only list in Microsoft Excel of your items wasn't really that satisfying as having hand-drawn icons of your items in Fallout 1/2. Items felt real there, like you REALLY have them on you.
But I'm pretty sure everyone in Obsidian is well aware of this, what I wanna say is that most of the players notice this and really appreciate it. Your hard work and attention to the detail doesn't go in vain. People usually praise the Planescape: Torment for its story and characters. Items and weapons that were obviously crafted with extensive care are vital part of that incredible immersion Planescape: Torment offers.
I had a suggestion for the upcoming game. I think it would be cool to see cameos of past game heroes in Project Eternity. Of course they would not have the same names (except for Drizzt) but the exact same look/features when you engage in dialog with them. To see Minsc, Imoen, Xan, Edwin from BG series suddenly pop up as a Innkeeper, quest giver or shop owner would be a lot of fun!
re: souls. is this just lore or is it going to enter into the gameplay via some kind of soul eater-like system like Mask of the Betrayer?
Souls will affect magic, and will likely be a major plot driver. I doubt they would recycle the exact soul-eater mechanic though, I think we are going to see something new and creative.
I for one, look forward to primitive firearms. I want my endgame fighter to be wheeling around an 18-pounder cannon.
Very interesting. I went from kind of iffy to actually liking this idea of technology better than traditional fantasy.
Super psyched on Early firearms. So will there be some sort of Tech/engineer class that has an easier time specializing in guns? Really interested to hear what type of classes you guys are cooking up. Hoping for at least one unique one. Diablo 3 had issues, but I enjoyed the creativity of classes that drew on other cultures and were a little unexpected.
Personally I'm not too excited about the firearms (hope they really are a rare "complex curiosity"), but I love the idea of stone/bronze age weapons. At a time when everyone wants to go around with beautiful swords or (blah, I hate them) firearms or crossbows, I want my team warrior to go around with tiger claws attached to his fists and a bronze spear, just to show everyone what he thinks of the fancy tech ^^
If this game is 1/10 as awesome as Planescape: Torment, you will have done a super awesome job! :)
Really looking forward to this.
Please, please, please make it look semi-realistic [Dragon Age, Skyrim] and not cartoony [World of Warcraft, anime, etc] In fact make it look like BG2 except in a modern engine, PLEASE.
This "souls" concept reminds me a little of the "Spirits" in Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader..