by Obsidian Entertainment
Exactly my point.
@fredgiblet I don't know? Go to the library, and download it onto a flash drive? Its 2012, if you don't have the internet or access to it then sorry.
This user's account has been deleted.
@Dime, beta access for 25000 players may be too much. It depends on how this access is organized. If there will be just an automated crush report collection, then it's okay. But if Obsidian is going to take a personal approach and is going to create a feedback system and to appoint supervisors for communication with all beta testers, then 25000 players are too much for their budget.
Please explain how you download a copy of a game from GoG without an internet connection.
If you weren't able to get online at all then it wouldn't work, you didn't specify that. I've had NV installed for a while.
I signed up to back this following the announcement of a DRM-free release - bravo Obisidian! Now please take the time to make this a bug-free release - pretty please?
For those who want both Steam and GOG versions, you should be able to import the DRM-free GOG version into your Steam collection, see https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php… for details.
As for Steam's downsides - Valve have an iron grip on your games collection and can take it all away in an instant. See http://consumerist.com/2011/03/valve-disables-steam-account-wont-explain-why.html for one example, tens of thousands of others can be found online.
With GOG, you only need to go online to download a game. Once its installer has been downloaded, you can copy it across to a machine without Internet access and install/play from there - fredgiblet's statement above about GOG needing a connection to install is wrong. You can even close your GOG account without affecting the games downloaded/installed, though you should make multiple backups of the installers before taking such a step.
The main argument that I saw in your post is principle, the practical part seemed to be the lesser of the concerns.
@fred & brys
If Steam's offline mode works that way now, that's great - but it definitely wasn't working that way over the summer when I tried to play Skyrim and New Vegas while staying with my folks in rural Virginia (where Internet access is scarce at best). I could not launch either game unless I was able to get online first. Perhaps they've changed it since then, which is good. But I still prefer the GOG option and am very glad it's available.
Don't you mean practical? That's the one you said DRM users don't argue with?
I can see his point on this a bit. I remember when EA said Mass Effect 3 would be an Origin exclusive game, Steam users went ape**** and demanded it be on Steam or they would never buy it. They kept on saying Origin is stupid, it will never be as good as Steam ever and that EA was greedy for wanting to put ME3 solely on their own e-store. Steam users can be just as visceral as DRM-free supporters, you just gotta push the right buttons to make them rage.
pretty much upgraded to the 50$ level as soon as i saw this update. awesome.
You are opposed on principle then and I can respect that fully.
Well, if you're honestly asking a question and it's not just rhetorical: The trouble with defending Steam, or any bad behavior, is that as that behavior gains acceptance other options disappear. So if Steam were simply another channel to purchase your games I'd have no problem with it at all, but it has rapidly become the only channel for many games. Including this one, initially (hence the backlash).
You can see other examples of this - Do you remember when the Quake 3 beta came out and it was later discovered that the game was spying on players? Sending information back to Id about users' video cards, operating systems, other miscellaneous data? Outrage! But Id had it's defenders and they persisted and nowadays it's just assumed that any game you install will spy on you in some capacity. I can't remember the last game I installed that didn't trip my firewall.
Or, for a non game example, how about getting groped at the airport? The TSA gets away with it because a large segment of the population continues to support and defend them, believing (erroneously) that being groped makes them safer somehow. As the practice is allowed to continue it becomes simply the new normal and the remaining few who protest are labeled as malcontents, troublemakers.
Of course, thankfully, this is no longer an issue for this game, but it remains a big problem with PC games in general.
I wonder why there is no digital equivalent of the $100 tier. That is what I'm basically waiting for.
I'm an anti-DRM person, and I've got no problem with Steam users. I just dislike having to run two programs to use one. Steam may be light-weight and in the background, but I just don't want that program in the background adding to the resource use on my system. I see no need for it. If i bought my game, i shouldn't have to have a nanny program running in the background making sure I am not sharing it. I realize Steam offers a lot of features like Steamworks, but for many games, many people don't use them
My Steam copy of Borderlands and Batman Arkhum Asylum have steam support, but I never use it. Don't need it. So why do i have to run Steam every time? At the very least, Steam should include a "Check here to run Steamcheck" and Steamcheck would verify you are the owner then shut down and run the game normal. If that were the case, I'd happily use Steam, but it's not, so I avoid it as often as possible.
It's been said by many people, including industry professionals, that intrusive always-on DRM is not the answer. It's penalizing all gamers for the bad actions of some. If you like Steam, good on you, but some of don't, and we'd like an option. Something that let's the content makers know they aren't being stolen from while not involving them constantly tracking the game every last second to be absolutely certain.
Beta access is to me as heroin is to a junkhead.
Steam and GoG are both awesome, fagaholics.
*lol, had already pledged to that tier, suckers.
I hate to break it to you, but you won't be able to isntall from GoG without an internet connection either.
How about Beta access for the early backers level since they jumped on board when there was still a month to go?
The problem, as far as I can see, is that some people have a principled aversion to DRM, not a PRACTICAL aversion, but a PRINCIPLED one. Because of this they feel the need to react negatively and challenge Steams use. The reality is that the practical issues with Steam, while present, are minor to negligible for the vast majority of people, so they can't make a good, widely applicable argument on practical merits. The result of this is that they feel the need to defend their positions, but they know they aren't going to provide a convincing practical argument and they know that if they have to justify their position that DRM is bad on principle that they've already lost (since if we agreed the discussion wouldn't be happening in the first place).
This leads to the final result where they have to attack us and pretend that we're unthinking supporters of Steam solely because, to us, the benefits of Steam outweigh the detriments.
Any chance for a Signed Poster instead of a collectors box? (for the $120~ tiers)
Thanks for offering a Steam-free version. Would have pledged before now, but for Steam...
I absolutely did read his/her post. I was clarifying that offline mode works, it's been unreliable in the past but has recently been (/fingerscrossed) fixed. For real this time.
The argument over a one time activation in the comments of a digitally distributed game is ridiculous as well. Fact is you'll need internet to download the installer from GOG, you'll even need to log into your GOG account to do so. If this was a discussion about a retail Steamworks game that argument would have far more merit, but that's simply not the case here. It's incredibly pedantic at this point.
Besides, the crux of my comment was that I'm still baffled over a handful of people's insistence of harping about Steam over and over and over and over again, right from the start of this project and even past the DRM free announcement. What exactly is the point of that? This isn't an 'there can only be one!' thing, nobody that wants a Steam version is going off into a 'I hate GOG and here's why' rant...so what's with labeling people as "Steam Defenders" and generally coming off as really hostile?
I guess that's what I get for being reasonable and not having to pick a side and think of one or the other as an enemy though.
I recognize, and have had to accept, that games like Planescape: Torment don't usually get funded in the current state of the industry. I'm SO glad that you guys have found another way to make the games you love to make, and that I love to play. With the decline of Bioware at the money-grubbing hands of EA, it's nice to see something fresh coming along; something that isn't a sequel to a 10-year old IP.
Click on manage pledge underneath the remaining time
OH NO! You're required to connect to the internet for less t han a minute! However will you survive?!?!? Especially since half the games out there you'll be wanting a patch on launch day anyway!?!?!?!?! OH NOES!!!!
I don't see why you couldn't. They'll be sending out a survey at the end of the KS that you'll be filling out so the only issue would be that any questions would need to go through you in the meantime and if there's some sort of backers forum you'll probably need to register with your own e-mail and then give the password to the person
@Tauron: To upgrade your pledge click "Manage your pledge" under the total amount people have pledged. It's a blue button.
""Brys about 1 hour ago
@ Saber Scorpion
That's funny because I just unplugged my internet, launched Steam, went into offline mode painlessly, and launched New Vegas without a problem. I also played it when I had no internet for a week a few months ago.""
- Great, but you cannot install New Vegas. Which for one time was a deal-breaker for me. I bought the game to play while my internet was down. As... well... it's a SINGLE PLAYER GAME.
And yet I COULDN'T RUN the game I bought because Steam refused to install it without internet connection.
Not even to mention the fact that ever since recent update of T&Cs all the games on Steam ain't yours anymore. They are only borrowed to you for as long as Valve and publisher finds it profitable. And for as long as they won't decide to remove it from your library without any explanation.
So even if you buy New Vegas in a shop - you don't own it nor any rights to it. You just buy a possible option of playing the game IF Valve allows you to do so.
That's one of most ridiculous things, and excuses in recent years.
Well done. I really appreciate the GOG option.
I don't know if anyone has recommended this, but I think it could be helpful if you updated the FAQ perhaps (if you can) with explanations on exactly what each tier offers in order to account for additional things like Beta access and whatnot.
"You asked and we are delivering. In conjunction with GOG, we are going to offer a DRM free version of the game for our Kickstarter Backers."
Brb, tripling my pledge.
Hi, I'm backing this as a Christmas present for someone: can I give you their name and details for the credits and access to everything instead of me?
I was kinda hoping to see beta access being added as incentive on the $35+ tiers.
Thanks for the tip on the sale on GOG. I never did play the Icewind Dale games. Will be purchasing those ASAP. May need to wait to play though since Torchlight 2 is released at Midnight tonight though.
And I forgot
- a digital download of the games soundtrack.
There's a $25, $50 and an $80 digital tier. So for 80 you would get
- 2 x digital game download
- High-Res game map
- High-Res game concept art
- PDF strategy guide
If you add an extra $25 to that 80, you then get 3 game downloads instead of 2.
Did you read Saber's post? Being able to activate and THEN go offline means nothing, it's the fact that you need to activate in the first place that's the problem. Consoles have heavy DRM, true, but do not require activation (sort of, it's getting more complicated as time goes on). DRM is always bad, but it's activation that's the real evil here.
Is it possible to "upgrade" existing pledge?
@Kimuji I think what he's saying would be something similar as valve games in Steam. When I buy HL2 for PC, I'm also able to play it on my mac using the same account. They were also a couple old boxed games allowing a double instal both mac and pc.
The new digital tiers are a bit confusing, so what do I get for an e.g. 100$ pledge - simply all added that comes before (that would mean one physical copy and two digital copies with the new list)?
> Steam IS the DRM. It obviously won't have any additional DRM on top of it (e.g. SecuROM).
That's not what I meant.
I don't see why not. Once you have paid for the game on one platform, why would you pay for another? No one would. So it would be a case of giving something away that no one would pay for anyway. But like I said, _if_ you intend to charge different prices for different platforms it's a different story. Because then people would of course pay for the cheapest platform only ;-)
And I wasn't really thinking about consoles since: a) they are inherently _not_ DRM free; and b) they typically price them differently from platform to platform (and completely differently from PC).
That's funny because I just unplugged my internet, launched Steam, went into offline mode painlessly, and launched New Vegas without a problem. I also played it when I had no internet for a week a few months ago.
Honestly, I'm not sure why you and others feel the need to continue harping about Steam. Obsidian heard you guys and (rightly) have a DRM free version worked out, nobody ever objected to that happening at any point in the comments...why so hostile? And comparing a 360/PS3, the epitome of DRM and closed systems, to a DRM free release is pretty amusing. You are aware of some of Capcom's releases on PS3 requiring a PSN connection, right? Or Sony's defacto DRM for PSN games that are restricted to 5 machines? The 360 has it's own issues, with all digital purchases being tied to one machine, issues with different gamer profiles, etc.
>Can't the DRM free version be available for the people who choose the steam version as well?
Steam IS the DRM. It obviously won't have any additional DRM on top of it (e.g. SecuROM).
Great news! Love the partnership with GOG and being independent from Steam game-rental platform or DRM game-crippling addon!
Couldn't be better! Keep the news coming!
I really like the partnership with GOG. I think they're one of the most gamer-friendly distribution channels available, and I'm a fan of their stance on DRM. Nice work!
Can't the DRM free version be available for the people who choose the steam version as well? I like steam as a service but I also get the DRM free versions for when that's more appropriate. It's not like you're getting the game twice so it shouldn't be twice as much. Humble Indie Bundle gives both.
Good to know you guys are listening to the backer's feedback. Personally, I'm opting with the Steam version, just because I have most of my library on there, but the fact that I and all the other backers have the choice is very, very much appreciated. Now, lets make an awesome game!
@Kimuji The revolution had already begun with STEAM Play.
Is always nice to have an option. I'm glad for all the GOG fans. I'm gonna pick STEAM version.
I just switched Steam to offline mode, unplugged my internet and started up New Vegas. It worked fine.