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We present City of Titans, a spiritual successor for the superhero MMORPG City of Heroes, being developed by Missing Worlds Media.
5,003 backers pledged $678,189 to help bring this project to life.

How many roads must a man walk down? Forty-Two.

Posted by Missing Worlds Media (Creator)

Let’s talk about endgame. It’ll be brief.

It sounds like a odd thing to talk about, since we haven’t even discussed the game yet, but it’ll wrap around to the beginning in a second.

There will be raids. There will be a traditional endgame, once we hit our final level cap. Currently, it’s set to mostly involve sunken space cities from the distant past, but that could change. It’s going to be a while until we get to that part, and we only have sketches and notes right now.

There will be a non-traditional endgame as well. That’s in even sketchier status, and all I have right now is a Risk board with post-its stuck on it. Mostly in Australia.

But that’s fine, because our predecessor had a rich and full endgame. It was called alting. There were so many power combinations, so many different ways to play, that rolling a new concept, rolling a new character, and starting again was as much fun as anything else anyone could do. Many people never got past 30, but had stables of dozens of heroes across multiple servers.

We aim to improve on that just a little bit.

Star Wars: The Old Republic gave every class their own story. We don’t have classes. So you get to pick the story you want to live through. And we can keep adding more and more stories, as the game grows bigger and bigger.

Do you want to clean up your block? Pick the Path of the Street Hero.

Do you want to control your home block? You’re a Ganglord.

Are you more concerned with protecting the world? Be a Protector.

Want to take it over? Be a Conquerer.

Want to explore the fringes of space, time, and reality? Be an Adventurer.

Are you a Detective or a Cat Burglar?

Are you hated and feared by those you protect, or those you abuse? You Monster, you!

If your character doesn’t fit into any of the paths available, and we have more than the ones above, we will have a path for the Hero and Villain. Not to mention the Anti-Hero and Rogue and Vigilante.

If Loredigging is your thing, we will have the path of the City as well.

But what is a Path?

A path is your character’s personal story. Like Star Wars: The Old Republic, we believe in giving your character a personalized story to follow. However, SW:TOR uses only one story per class, combined with a story per world you visit.

We’re going to be a bit more involved than that. Our storylines will be divorced from class, which means we can add more and more as the game grows. Further, they will be more personalized. All Gang Boss, as a descriptor, means is the flavor, where you start from.

Using it as an example, you start as a thug, then take down your own boss to take over his game. But then, say, you come to a choice, even after you have ended an enemy by making him drive over his girlfriend in a monster truck. You can continue down the path of horrible nature, or you can use your charisma to become a celebrity. If you keep working towards the good side, you might even become President. And fight aliens with your super-powers. But that start as a gang boss will mark you forever.

Course, who’d believe a plotline like that in a game?

Our Paths are not highways. They are rivers, that branch and meet. They are the roads you walk, and the choices you make, that lead you to who you are. A criminal can rise to the heights of power, or discover that there are some deeds he can not commit, and fight for redemption. And even in those two extremes, there are variations and choices, as we bring you questions and decisions. Our Alignments update has some hints on the kinds of challenges you might face. And it’s not about how righteous you are, it’s not about being as pure as possible for extra bonus power. It’s about the story you want to tell, and what you think your character would do.

If you are to start as a Paragon and fall, you will be hated more than a villian who started as a simple bank robber. If you are a Detective that lies about results… well, you may just wind up a bit noir, so long as you do it with justice as your goal.

But a Paragon can work his way back, even after executing three men with a piece of their home planet. It will still be remembered. It will mark him. But he can regain trust.

There are characters, like Spider-Man, who wander up and down the spectrum. Batman is often wanted by the police, with varying frequency. And there are those who, like Captain America, have no problem with killing when needed, but can still fall prey to self doubt.

Our alignment spectrum isn’t simply four slices of a spectrum, and your character won’t be in black and white.

I can’t promise a completely unique game experience from start to level cap. But I can say that we plan to have entire zones dedicated to your Path, and the shared adventures you will have will be the strongest we can make them. I can even say that your first twenty levels, we are aiming to make nearly completely unique, barring those adventures we feel everyone should experience.

There will be endgame. There will be raids. But you may choose to never go there. We’re aiming to make this a game you can play not twice, not five times, but ten or more times, and never run out of new places to explore, new things to do.

Coincidentally, we’re not aiming for voiceovers. There wil be hooks for the technology in place if we feel like implementing it, but we’re more concerned about story than voice. There may, however, be voiced significant lines. We’re working out the details - it’s not urgent right now, the important thing is making the game for you.

We’ve got some pretty big hopes for our stories, and one or two of them are starting to fall into place.

Story, though, what is story? It’s not just about words on the screen or FMVs that play for hours. We were there with you. We remember the Incarnate Trial videos. Fun the first time, annoying the 5th, and then it started to get really bad.

Story is about art direction. Clean streets and skyscrapers, versus run down tenements and concrete jungle. Story is about enemies. Story is presentation, it’s mission choice, it’s so many things. And that’s why it’s so wonderful our art director has stage direction experience. We’re going to make this happen for you. Everything is going to tell part of the story. It’s just a question of how and where.

We’re going to give you agency. Choose your own path, choose your destiny.

But we’re going to do more than that. But that’s a matter for the Lead system, and another update later.

- Warcabbit


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    1. Wanders on

      Seeing the part about story Paths that you'd go down based on that alt'd character themes would have me squeeing if this wasn't early-days. I've been fruitlessly advocating that sort of thing in MMO alphas and betas for years now, but with CoT, I can instead enjoy that sort of thing when it is live. Sooo happy :)

      The lack of this was something I especially felt in the more tightly-themed CoH zones, like Striga or Faultline. If you are going to go through all the trouble and expense of producing villain groups and art resources and having a zone story, why would you only have one pathway through it? Instead let folks take different alts through different paths. Have them hear references to events in the other paths from their contacts ("And don't worry about Michelle... a group of heroes working with [street hero contact] are going to help her find out the rest of the story behind [such-and-such]") which they can eventually end up experience -as- those heroes, when they are on a street hero alt. It's a way to make the most of your resources while also providing a better experience for the players. Bravo!

    2. Missing avatar

      MrCaptainMan - Phoenix Rising on

      What I loved about CoH was duoing with my SG-mate. I can't stand endgame raids where 16, 32 or whatever heroes are needed. Duoing the KHTF was one of my highlights, and soloing Sister Psyche TF on my defender was amazing. Please scale everything. An MMO for me means I'm in a world populated by other people. It doesn't mean forced grouping
      Choice is a winner.
      Scale the rewards, obviously, I dont want it all handed to me on a plate.
      This is my first comment, I only realise this was happening recently. CoH was the finest MMO I've ever had the luck and honour to play. 8 years of my life and 32 alts died when NCSoft broke my heart. I trusted the devs for that game, and I trust Missing Worlds. I actually wish the funding period was longer, I'd pledge more if I had more time. Thank you, and good luck. See you in Titan City!

    3. Richard&Stephon French-Steinman -Phoenix on

      This is in Response to Update #18 "How many roads must a man walk down? Forty-Two" and others [this is why you may see this posted a few times in other places]. It and other updates have inspired a lot of talking between me and my friends and it made me feel like I should put some of it down and share it all with our fellow gamers out there. so here it is. please be kind and constructive in your Comments and Thoughts. Thank you for your time.

      I have to admit that the Incarnate Trials became more than monotonous and annoying to the people I knew. I for one always thought having to do the same scenario over and over again as part of the game either for endgame or just part of the game to feel like a cop out in the great story that is my character's life. That to me is the same as picking up a novel and it having 40 chapter 47s in it. Who in their right mind wants to read a novel with 40 chapter 47s. I would rather see an endgame that makes our highest level toons become a more useful part of our new alts lives, than just running some task force or mission over and over again. And for the sake of argument, lets call this endgame ability "Guardianship". With this endgame your level 50 toon now becomes the "mentor" to your new toon and like a Mastermind in COX. The "Guardian Mode" would be turned on in the character select screen where you would place this toon into "Guardian Mode" and would not be able to use the toon in "Guardian Mode" until he was taken out of the "Guardian Mode". Also while in this "Guardian Mode" your toon in "Guardian Mode" would not get drops or cash but in all aspects would be just like any other summoning minion designed specifically for summoning. Your new toon having the ability to summon his mentor who has been locked into "Guardian Mode" for this character and would be exemplered down to his level, but would fight in an AI state. The number of stories out there of similar events like this are as many a superhero as you can think of that had a sidekick. Using Batman and Robin as an example you got your Batman to level 50, then you make your new toon Robin and now your Batman becomes "Guardian" to Robin. The Robin character would function just as a normal character would getting full XP. While the Batman "Guardian", who is in "Guardian Mode" would earn a special kind of xp points that would go towards purchasing higher level abilities. Thereby adding a new dimension of level and of play and story to both an old character and a new character. Leaving developers free to create more endgame experiences and not just a task force or mission that you run over and over again.

      Now the same can be said for reversing this process. Where you can "Sidekick Mode" your own lower level character, who would only receive a small portion of XP [say 50%] while in this mode, but who gets to run with your higher level toon as you go through exploring the endgame stuff.

      Things like this are a good way to not only help out the story but help out solo playing as well as helping out the people who want to do a bigger mission or trial but do not have enough people to take out the mission as it is set up.

      This allows for a synergy effect where the characters could learn an ability from another that they normally could not learn such as Batman teaching Robin how to throw a batarang. Or a synergy effect where they could combine powers for a teamwork effect like Wolverine and Colossus doing a fastball special. Like using the Incarnate example from COX instead of getting a huge devastating fire blast from just your one character it could be a combined effect that would create this great new effect and power.

      Another kind of concept like the Peacebringer and the Warshades had bonuses when they had certain types of people in their group. Someone being the team leader or other aspects of the group could give the group bonuses. It could be like a power from a power pool that is only active when you are in a group. Similar to the Leadership power pool, but only activate when you are in a group. Or also like how the Shield power set had an power to protect people because he blocking certain attacks for others, but in reference to this we are talking about abilities that are an endgame experience. A reason to get your character to the endgame. [ In reference to the "Many people never got past 30, but had stables of dozens of heroes across multiple servers"]

      While Endgame is great, let us not forget what actually draws us to the game; game play. Too many games currently on the market seem to have grouping as an afterthought, that everything could and should be done alone. Why? Would you go to a Texas Hold 'Em tournament to play Solitaire? Then why join a massively MULTIPLAYER online game to play alone? Though, that shouldn't mean some things can't be done alone. Surely hunting criminals on the street should be something any hero can do solo. However, like CoX, missions should be scaled so that the hero, or villain, might want to seek help. Let us not forget that what endeared us all to CoX was it became a community, and it became a community because it encouraged us to team together.

    4. Missing avatar

      Michae Sctt Bauer on

      This is the first time I'm responding to on of these things, but I think I need to because I have some concerns over what I've read in this.

      #1: While the "paths" idea sounds cool, it deeply worries me. I fear that unless they are REALLY carefully written, it actually LESSENS your control over your character. I can't tell you the number of characters I made in CoH with drastically different origins, some of which tied in to the city's lore, some of which didn't. By having their entire game storyline built around story lines the developers created, I lose much of that control. Let's just use your gang lord example for a moment. You have your paths for a young upstart taking over, then branching out in to whatever you want...but what if my character's concept is that he's actually always been a gang lord, and he's moving in to new territory? Oh, you say, we have an opening mission for that! Instead of being a thug who replaces him, you're the new guy in town! but what if my character's concept is that he doesn't' actually REPLACE the gang leader, he controls him! You say "oh we have an alteration for that too" but then I say "no, I mean he, literally, possesses him. He's the spirit of an imprisoned telepath possessing the leader of a major gang, all in an effort to eventually use it to free his actual body.

      For the Path system to work as you're describing it, it would require, literally, thousands of missions, or we end up playing -your- characters, not ours. City of Heroes worked because you had your hero or villain "jump in" already established, just new to the city. You could be a brand new hero wearing tights for the first time, OR a legendary hero of fame first setting foot in Paragon. It didn't matter, and the stories all worked no matter the back story. Please don't bite off more than you can chew and end up pigeon holing us into playing your characters instead of our own. These paths will need to tread very lightly on areas dealing with Origin, or even Destiny, or they will either require unrealistic levels of mission design or really hurt a key part of the game.

      Secondly, end game and cut scenes: Raids are good, but TFs are better. And I loved the incarnate trials. The thing that kept CoH going for me with my 50s, though, was having so many TFs that could be run and give usable rewards no matter the level. Something like the merit system worked, because no matter the level your character was, you were getting something useful by running them. And lets face it, speed runs were a blast! End game needs to involve new content for your max level toons, but also ways for them to be used in previous game content still. Just my 2 cents. I also have some real concerns with "no archetypes" since I've now seen it in place in two other MMOs (Champions and The Secret World) and it has been a major flaw for both, but I'll address that in the update that talks about powers.

    5. John Barefield on

      I like the sound of the paths. They may create a more nuanced experience. Consider: I might want a character who like the Hulk, is misunderstood and considered evil. Ditto Spiderman. This way, I can create such a hero knowing her will not just do the same things as a straight Justice League type hero.

    6. John Barefield on

      I enjoyed fighting giant monsters in CoH and thing that this is supported by the comic book genre - think of the "everybody vs Galactus" type story.

    7. John Barefield on

      Look, I see what you mean about long videos. But all you would have to do is include a "skip" button.

      I strongly support voiceovers, but I agree with Jennifer that some games have a non-actor read the lines, probably a programmer or the writer, and the results are catastrophic. The ones in CoH were good though, the ones in the tutorial.

    8. Missing avatar

      Jennifer on

      Seems to be your dead set on making Raids, i hope you use CoX as an outline and not any other game. There is a reason why CoX was a Titan when it comes to Superhero MMOs in all aspects and we miss it dearly.

      As for the personal story thing. If there's voice acting in cut scenes, *rrrrm* please lets us have feeling in the voices.

      Here's some food for thought: If you character creator has a personality option, that can play into your character's cut scene. Can i assume you'll have a hero - Neutral - villain meter? That can factor in with the personality on how your character response or acts in a cut scene as well.

    9. Paul Gaffney on

      Joshua: For a team that has not delivered a product, trust comes from language, and the language of the reply left by the team (just two below my last comment) is troublesome. That language right there says you can have fun with fifty people, or with a few teams, but if you're alone or with a single team, you're "making a change", not having fun.

      Their words, not mine.

      That is a troublesome mindset for them to be approaching their design, and it deserves to be called out.

    10. Joshua A. Dexter on

      Paul G, I’d like to think we could put enough trust in our devs that they understand a game should be ‘fun.’ (Although let’s keep in mind the definition of fun varies from person to person. I’d also point out end game plans were mentioned for a total of one paragraph. “There are raids and other things to do.” Do we really need “Oh and it’s also fun!” tacted at the end of every idea?
      I think your cynicism is blinding you to a few things.

      “Having fifty heroes team up is rare in comicbooks?” Maybe- but it was common in City of Heroes from the beginning. Hamidon raids were meant to be huge team ups – and they were quite popular in fact! Not just because of the rewards. And.. ‘super hero teamups were extremely rare in comics and other media.’ For movies, having super heroes team up at all is obviously much rarer than comicbooks – with only so much time in a movie, you don’t want too many heroes for your audience to have to focus on. Bigger teamups are much more common in comicbooks, both in the form of ‘mass crossovers’ (Secret Wars, Infinity Gauntlet) and super hero teamups, dating back to the Justice League/ Justice Society.
      Aren’t the big two companies doing basically annual company wide crossovers now?
      It’s more common in comicbooks because there’s more heroes than in movies. Translate that up to MMO’s, where there are not hundreds but hundreds of thousands of heroes in the city over any given month. It only makes sense then that we’d have bigger challenges and more opportunities to take part in a larger team than in a comicbook, which also has concerns like effectively using each character and giving them a reason to be in the story. MMO’s don’t have that limitation. (This isn’t even getting into City of Heroes’s hundreds of groups with huge memberships. Unlike comicbooks. Yet another point in favor of big-group focused content.)

      And aside from that, City of Heroes was a game based on super heroes, but this is a MMO meant to keep alive the spirit of City of Heroes, which as you know, had big raid plans from the beginning. Contrary to what you stated earlier, even when raids were the main focus of the game (due largely to player request), they were still introducing content you could solo basically every issue. Not always a ton, but it was there. There was no point in the game’s life where the only content released was raid based.

      Putting raids in makes sense. They were an important, popular part of City of Heroes. They belong here too.

    11. Paul Gaffney on

      If your end-game ideas don't involve "a player going to do something fun", you're failing at design. So far, you listed ideas leave that out altogether.

      I'd also like to point out that fifty superheroes going to do a thing is something that happens extremely rarely in comics and other superhero media. It isn't part of the superhero mythos, and shouldn't be included just because "it's an MMO and that's what MMOs do". CoX was the third-most popular MMO for a time (and the second-most popular subscription-based one), based largely on a model that was completely unlike all the other MMOs.

      Don't alienate the core audience in an attempt to cater to "MMO tastes".

    12. Missing avatar

      VashNKnives on

      Exemplaring and sidekicking were both huge boosts to be the end game and leveling track. I dislike DCUO grind end-game so much that I abandoned the game, it takes away from the story too much. Radio and paper missions and merits from TFs and rikti warzone ship raids were excellent end game for PUGS. Its fun to have clear and obtainable character power-up progression without being forced into a funnel grind to win scenario. I did the I-trials and had super incarnates but did not like it much and it made my incarnates too strong for the rest of the game.

      I loved the multi-path/contact setup CoH had for the early levels. Champions really messes this up and I'm sick of it because even with my alts I'm still always hunting the same baddies. This is despite loving the different stories and missions the first time through.

      Bad voiceovers are worse than no voiceovers. I turn the sound off on many a game because they are just too cringe inducing. I think SW:ToR's having the users avatar's voice also limits the imagination, and while having some of the best voicework of any mmo ToR still nearly sunk. DCUO has good voiceovers but it still has the terrible looping that made me turn the sound off. Champions voicework is terrible at times and messes with the atmosphere of the game for me, drawing me out and disconnecting me from what I tried to imagine wasn't a cartoon.

    13. Missing Worlds Media Creator on

      As you can see, there's a wide variety of voices, some saying 'oh, if raids are in, I'm quitting this game', and some saying 'without raids, there is no game.' All we can say right now, is that we have plans for the endgame, some of them will involve getting fifty or so of your friends to go do something fun, some of them will involve two or four team's worth of people to do something fun, and some of them involve making plans and calculating things, on a team or all alone, to make a change.

      The core point is, there will be choices, and there will be fun for everyone. It's about how you play, and what you like to do. Admittedly, the specifics on the non-alting endgame are, currently, a bit less specific than most, because we want to see what people find to be the most fun in this game, and that requires playtesting, and because we want to be absolute masters of game design, and that means it gets done last. Right now? Relax. Enjoy the ride. We'll figure this part out together.

    14. Zer0Morph on

      I'm loving what I'm reading! An actual story for my villain? This is awesome! And it even sounds like I'll be able to solo these stories too which is even better. I tend to like to solo a lot so this sounds great!!

    15. Missing avatar

      Tarakas on

      Here's my 2 cents.

      1. Voice Overs: I don't really mind voice overs and cut scenes so much as long as I don't have to stand around forever waiting for them to finish. Short and to the point works best I think.

      2. End Game: There really has to be some type of end game system, some reason to logon with that 50 you just spent time perfecting. I like many of the ALTernate suggestions, but this is a must (eventually anyway, it wouldn't make sense to work on the for initial release).

      3. One of COHs strengths was the Mentor/Lackey system. Being able to play as a lower level or higher level really expanded your options whenever you logged on. Also Ouroboros was a great system I would love to see in this game as well.

      4. Open classes: This is fine, but if I pick a Stalwart I should really expect to be able to make a good tank regardless of what powers I pick. Having more choices is good as long as those choices take you down the path you have already chosen. (Also, having some respec mechanism is a must as well, eventually).

    16. Missing avatar


      @Sven Wittner: sounds like you were a redsider.

      Blueside WWD was pass the idiotball and the blue 20-30 new arcs (Lockhart and the art dealer one) one had you utterly fail at saving someone and the other had you get conned by a two bit scrub. Then there's the capstone of States getting taken out (with a cheesy smile none-the-less) by a gutter punk contact from Sharkhead.

    17. DeathSentry on

      Also love the move towards classless as it will allow more creativity. Maybe include predefined classes for those wishing for it. In CO u can do both and its a nice compromise

    18. DeathSentry on

      This is great! I miss meaningful endgame content. This alignment system sounds great, please make this happen so. Also love the voice overs in champions online; maybe u can have an option to allow voice overs or to just read the text ( always show the text)

    19. Missing avatar

      Kenneth Kestner on

      Concerning three items:
      1. Voice Overs: While not an integral part of the game, you are going to be competing against most of the modern MMORPGS, all of which have some level of voice acting.
      I would consider at least having voice overs for major quests, task forces, and quest line endings. Leaving this out completely will leave you at a disadvantage against the other games out there.

      2. Classes - I have mixed feelings about this. Having no classes will leave major balancing issues. With the class system in CoH, I felt the dev team did an excellent job of keeping most of the power sets reasonably even with eachother. With no classes, and an open power selection policy, it would be very easy to create a gimp character. I beleive when CoH first started out, they attempted to do this and failed.

      3. End Game - I've heard this umpteen times about the "end game" being make a new alt, and I never bought it. CoH did not have an end game until the introduction of the iTrials, and I really believe lost a lot of players due to this. I usually end up having a small set ( 2 or 3 ) characters that I enjoy above everything else, and a requirement for this new game is that there's a reason to continue playing them. I like the idea of being able to continually improve your character even after reaching max level. Please dont lose this.

      4. My Story - sounds very interesting. I like it, would be nice to have something different to do with each new alt. However, I tend to play most of my characters on the straight and narrow, and hope this doesnt lead to them having the same "path" quests every time.

    20. Eoin Maloney on

      If you ever, Ever, EVER need voice work, I would love to. I've never gotten to do professional voice work, but I'd always wanted to.

    21. Cinnder on

      The devs always said the reward rate was faster on iTrials than in solo DA content because the reward should match the risk.

      I never understood this.

      It was always far more challenging for me to play solo than it was to team. I hardly ever died on an iTrial and, after the first week or so, the team never failed to complete the trial. The only thing we were unable to do sometimes was get all the badges.

      I understood that the devs wanted to encourage teaming, and they wanted folks to play the trials they had worked hard to develop. I just never thought claiming risk/reward was a valid excuse.

    22. Sven Wittner on

      I loved the I-Trials. I love to accumulate power on my main.
      I had some alts, but they either werent played much or they made it to incarnate.

      I loved the DA-Arc just for the story. That was really heroic, and made your char the center of attention. The mover. Same the Villain Arc of Pandoras Box. That was pure love for me, building my own Powerbase, getting Mako into my Duty instead of Lord Recluses. He even betrayed him for me.
      I loved the Villain Story with my own Clone Fabric in Sharkhead. The newer Villainside Storys and also Radio and TV got your char right in the middle as mover.
      And all theese Stories, Who will die came in the same Updates with I-Trials and were soloable.So I think getting only I-Trials as Updates for a year is wrong.
      Also I-Trials were easy compared to High Level EQ Raids. something you could do without thinking this is a job.

    23. Missing avatar


      @JMadden_Phoenix Rising Initiative: Dark Astoria was nothing short of punitive in the reward rate for solo players. What an iTrialer could accomplish in a weekend would take a solid month for someone only doing DA and DA couldn't unlock all the slots until i24 (iirc) which never hit live.

      Yes, DA let them say there was a solo path. It was basically climbing K2 to get to the same place the iTrialers got to on a lazy Sunday drive. If someone has a copy of Coulumb2's DA reward rates it said it all.

    24. Jayleia on

      i-Trials were, IMO, TOO repetitive, but I had fun with them (also gave me an excuse to stand around and look at bios). And only rarely did I see anything about egos or needing particular groups. If you showed up, we'd go bash/splode things.

    25. Missing avatar

      Dylan Evans on

      I loved the incarnate trials, I was only dissapointed when there weren't enough people on to start one. But, yeah, did not like the cutscenes and I don't like voiceovers in general so I find this update completely full of win.

    26. JMadden_Phoenix Rising Initiative on

      @suriyel I didn't like the I-trials either. too much grindfest for me..If i have to do the same I-trial 10times to unlock something, I am no longer having fun. COH did finally realize this and implement a single player path to unlock Incarnate powers(Dark Astoria arcs). The arcs were pretty cool IMO and were also challenging for a team wihtout having to deal with the logistics of a giant team massaging egos and deciding the right groupings. Hopefully COT will learn from coh's lessons and have both a team and solo path for heroes to reach greatness.

    27. Missing avatar


      The Incarnate trials were my least favorite thing added to CoH. They actually had me thinking of going F2P.

      Everything else was built around being alt friendly and then Posi had to go try on the big boy endgame raid pants (which are properly worn on the head).

      If something like the Incarnate trials is added, as long as they aren't the only thing getting attention, I won't mind so much. In my opinion a Super Hero MMO doesn't need the endless endgame power treadmill. Just keep adding new content and if you have an Ouro system you're golden.

    28. Paul Gaffney on

      @Jayleia: Well, I paid for a year's subscription to CoX in which I got nothing but more and more damned Incarnate trials - which, for someone that preferred to solo the game, were COMPLETELY useless - and the only thing I got for my waiting was a free-to-play system. So maybe I'm a bit bitter about the point.

    29. Catherine America on

      Good idea from El Puerco - Solo trial that takes you back to level 1, but with some bonus abilities, enhancements, skills or powers.

      Good idea from Jaryd Weiss - Perma-death'ing a level capped toon and earning a statue in its honor, with a few attributes, etc. being passed on to a new toon.

      WRT to Paul Gaffney's concern...maybe end game raids (as per the ideas/suggestions I've noted above) are just one option/path for the player. How about a path that let's your non-"Incarnate" level capped toon continue to do heroic or villainous things, but the outcomes of those things have a global effect (in some measured way, of course) on the CoT universe (as would all the other X number of players who chose this "path" for their toon)?
      I'm thinking dynamic content here to some degree.

    30. Jayleia on

      You're right, it wasn't like every other MMO. Because the end-game raids didn't need teams of 1 tank, 3 scouts/rogues, 1-2 mages and 1-2 priests (or whatev depending on the MMO)

      You could be, quite literally, any class with any powerset and get rewards and be useful in the I-trials. That's VERY different from almost every other MMO. Additionally, even the hardest i-Trials were easier than many "end-game" raids in other MMOs. But they were slightly more difficult content which I and many others wanted that moved the storyline forward and rewarded us for moving forward.

    31. Jürgen Pünter on

      Path of the Adventurer? Ok, I'm sold, take my money. If you can make that one happen, I'll never even need an ALT. Ok, Detective perhaps. Um, no, wait, Lore might get a separate path, too? That's... that's... Damn you! I mean... well... argh... Here, take even more of my money and make it awesome!

      And 10x LOL to "Many people never got past 30, but had stables of dozens of heroes across multiple servers [in CoX]." That's me, right on the spot, though my highest was a bit higher than 30, IIRC.

    32. Missing avatar

      Eric Gama Müller on

      Tim and Kelly!
      I understand that they will still keep trials (raids) or something similar, but the initial video from BAF is for sure something for you too watch less than 5 times!
      They could use some checkbox so the player can avoid watching the same videos again and again, also being able to play them when they are in the mood of watching again!
      They are indeed trying to make alts more "wantable", but I think they are not planing of break end game stuff such as trails for that to happen, they plan on keeping both interesting (at least is what it looks like to me)

    33. Paul Gaffney on

      I have to admit, the announcement of "end game raids" is making me consider withdrawing my backing. I think the Incarnate system ruined City of Heroes, and it's really unnecessary. The best thing about CoH was all the ways it WASN'T like every other MMO. If I wanted end game raids, I could play literally any other game.

    34. Missing avatar

      TJ on

      Absolutely agree with Kelly Creighton, who said what I did in a more direct way. Options to invest heavily in one or a few characters are crucial for my enjoyment of a game - don't get me wrong, I had two servers with 48 character slots filled with alts, but I had more collected hours on 4 characters - my Bots/Force MM, Fire/Shield Scrapper, Dark/Dark Corruptor, and Ice/Storm Controller - than all the rest of them combined. I need that ability to fall in love with a character to fall in love with the game.

    35. Sean Malloy of Phoenix Rising

      While SWTOR gives each class its own story, one of the things that bothers me about it is that it's one story per basic class -- so a Sith Sorceror and a Sith Assassin would both be going through exactly the same storyline; it carves into the replay value that once you play out the eight storylines, you've experienced all of the character development, and all of the 'peripheral' missions are the same for each faction, so you lose 'freshness' with the second character you play in a faction even if it's a different class. City of Heroes didn't have any fixed storyline -- there were so many missions available from so many contacts, and the radio/paper missions, that you could play two characters with identical powersets through two grossly-similar but different storylines, just by picking different contacts and missions. City of Villains fell down on this a bit; there were fewer contacts available, so you had a narrower range of experience to pick from, and it always felt as if you were becoming just a bigger and more powerful legbreaker for someone else, not establishing yourself as a power of your own. Being able to thread your way across different paths, as well as each path having sufficient variation that following a particular path doesn't mean that you're doing exactly the same set of missions, is one of the things that will keep players creating new alts for years to come.

    36. Jaryd Weiss on

      @Tom Combs I really like that idea, it would definitely be a fun way to change up the story once you get to the end :)
      Someone else had mentioned back in the day on my SG forum that there should be an endgame system where your character can do something super heroic to save the entire world, but end up sacrificing themselves in the process. Afterward, the next character you make would have special abilities similar to that sacrificed character (maybe a signature move or two) and a statute in your honor somewhere in the game. Just more ideas :)

    37. El Puerco de Phoenix Rising on

      I agree - I think they're just talking about the intro videos, not the trials themselves. Although the BAF one never really got dull for me. :)

      I was just thinking it would be nice to max a character, then do a solo trial that would result in you "falling from power" and having to claw your way up again from level 1. There would have to be some benefit to doing this - not sure what it would be - but it would be an incentive for you to replay a character you love and add to their story.

    38. Kevin B. on

      Re: Paths: I love your ideas for that system.

      Re: voiceovers: If you're going to have them make sure they're of professional quality. Amateur voice acting often detracts far more from the atmosphere than it adds. IMO this probably means, going by the limited budget you guys likely have to work with, it's better to just not add them at all.

    39. Cinnder on

      Don't worry, Kelly. I'm pretty sure they were just talking about the intro videos to the iTrials, not the iTrials themselves, when they said "annoying" and "really bad".

    40. Tom Combs on

      One thing that would be cool is to be able to clone ourselves and take another path. Or an Alternate Universe version, something like that.
      Let us re-start a character after their powers change radically. Or an experiment that went wrong.
      That's a great endgame to me.

    41. Missing avatar

      Ken from Chicago on

      I loved CITY OF HEROES "Shining Stars" arc. I could hear the voices of Twinshot, Proton, Flambeaux "We're looking for PEEEEEEople."

      I loved the moral choices in the Going Rogue expansion as well as the missions with the dialogue boxes of NPCs acting as teammates on the radio. It was like being part of a team even when playing solo.

      If you do decide to do voice-overs, might you consider computerized text-to-speech programs. There's been a lot of advances since the Amiga 1000 debuted in 1985 with text-to-speech built in. They might meet your needs and be very cost effective--with an option to turn off the audio.

    42. Kelly Creighton on

      As someone who did nothing but incarnate trials over and over on the same toon for several months in a row, as someone who eventually made 22 T4s and 3 additional T3s on one toon, I must personally disagree that iTrials became "annoying" or "really bad" after repetition. We asked for fights that were more complex than "pound on the big back of hit points for 8 minutes straight" *cough*REICHSMAN*cough*, and they delivered. The BAF and MOM and Keyes trials all have inventive and interesting mechanics involved, and I really enjoyed them.

    43. Catherine America on

      I should say "...opposed to branches and SINGULAR paths" that lock you in to certain progressions and outcomes.

    44. Catherine America on

      First: +1 to Paul Carroll's post below. Please keep those meta-systems in mind.

      Second: So this sounds like a web of story lines and arc as opposed to branches and paths. LoveLoveLove!

      Third: I like that these updates tend to be published in time for an early morning ETzone read : )

    45. Missing avatar

      Thunder on

      Captain was a killer very often. I know he hates the Punisher because he kills the enemies while the good captain wants to be superior and find another solution if it exists, still he is no Spiderman (which is the real guy who doesn't kill).
      - Cap America is a soldier, super soldier, so yes he killed enemies in war and also killed if the action and justice really needed it, if there is no other solution (Spiderman doesn't kill not even if such events)
      - Ultimate Cap America is even a true "Punisher", a soldier who doesn't think 2 times about ending the life of an enemy. In this version, kiling the opponent is a "smart" move for him, less talking and more action (which usually ends on killing the opponent if possible, with bloody shield etc.).

    46. Missing avatar


      Cap's killed when he felt he had no choice, to prevent civilian harm. I remember at least one case where he shot several ULTIMATUM soldiers who were about to kill people. It's not something he does casually, or without regrets, but he has been known to kill people.

    47. Ryan H on

      I like the sound of this, and I can see how this idea could provide content for years.

    48. iamkiki on

      This update sounds like visionary idealism (not a bad trait) but I'd really love to start seeing high level project milestone and prioritization in the near future. What is being planned for release on launch vs future release enhancements?

    49. Nathan Gillispie on

      I hope that you can keep these plans going. You folks are setting some really high expectations.

      That being said, Cap didn't kill. I'm sure he did during WWII, but unless the character has been utterly ruined in the last few years, Cap wasn't a killer. Avengers movie Cap doesn't count. Sorry, had to push back as a 30+ year fan of Cap.