by Minion Games
glad to see the 2 and 3 will be distinguishable by number of corners. There is a proposal to cut corners on dollar bills to make them identifiable by the blind. That model has more cuts on lower denominations the reason being that cutting a corner off can only fool the blind person into thinking the bill is worth less than it really is.
If you followed that model, you'd swap the cuts on the 3 and 5:
1 - 4 cuts
2 - 3 cuts
3 - 2 cuts
5 - 1 cut
10 - no cuts
if you want to keep the 5 as is with 2 cuts, another alternative is to put 2 cuts on the 3 adjacent - like on the two top corners instead of opposite corners
@Julia: I´m absolutly with you :-).
@Vince the designer agreed to give in... 1 clip for 3 CAP.
(Need more caffeine!)
1 1 clipped corner
2 2 clipped corners
3 3 clipped corners
5 4 clipped corners
10 0 clipped corners
A reasonable point was made in an earlier discussion that it seems like it will be unlikely to have 1, 2, and 3 value coins in use in any one game. Some games use 1s & 2s, others use 1s & 3s. If you establish this up front then the theoretical blind person playing a theoretical blind-friendly game will be fine. I think setting up the progression to only make sense when you are using all the values might actually be less elegant.
Seems like the smalls should be:
1 1 clipped corners
2 2 clipped corners
3 3 clipped corners
4 4 clipped corners
5 0 clipped corners
Then the clipped corners exactly match the number on the face of the coin!
The funky shapes of the other defy that simple guesstimate by feel, but I do think the shapes of the 1000 and 5000 should be flipped, since the large coins get more complex as the value increases.
I love that the mediums are kind of random. Keeps it interesting!
For the color of the 200, pink and yellow are the two obvious colors that haven't been used yet, or brown.
Man, this project has been a fun ride.
I just backed at the $5 "Collector" level and was expecting to get three coins out of it. Imagine my excitement as they kept piling on more.
The fun of watching this project explode (in a good way) was worth the $5 in and of itself. Getting the coins will be an awesome bonus.
US coinage has ridges to help the blind (or otherwise visually impaired) distinguish between different coins of similar sizes. Minion Games can accomplish the same thing, with one exception. The 3/2 coins can be easily mistaken. If the three was a singe clip (three corners) then every coin could be distinguished by touch. What do you say Minion? Have you thought about this accessibility issue.
Some games use "crazy" denominations of money. Such as Acquire. Although I will likely use 1's and 2's in For Sale if I ever use these in that game, the actual denomination on the game coins is 1000 and 2000.
Also, they've already fixed the prices on the pledges. Kickstarter does NOT allow changing pledges after someone has joined a tier (this was even mentioned in the updates).
I personally would rather have a wide selection of coins, rather than a minuscule amount of bonus coins includes. For instance, if they includes a bonus of 10 coins on my order of 500, thats not very important to me.
@Asbjørn I love his stuff on BGG, is there a thread on BGG with coin stuff where he made the spreadsheet?
Edson, about a week after the campaign ends you'll use BACKERKIT.COM to add the coins you ordered to your cart - you can edit that all the way up till a week before we ship them.
@Edson Carli: Minion will be sending us a survey some point after the kickstarter finishes
@William Fantastic read sir!
@William thank you. When I can send my personal set of coiins? (ex: 3 packs of 5, 2 packs of...) You will contact us by email?
Apparently the price of designing a new coin is about ~$500-1000 or something, so if Minion Games had instead distributed that money back to their over 1300 backers, it wouldn't make much of a difference. The mean pledge is about $64 at the moment, and if the discount were to be fairly distributed, such a discount would only mean saving $1 per $64 spent; that is less than 2%. Of course, Minion Games had dropped say 5 denominations, one would save $5 per $64 spent, but that is, in my opinion, still peanuts.
You know instead of offering a stretch reward for these crazy denominations of money, why cant you take some of the money and make it cheaper to buy. (i.e. more coins for the same cost)
Shipping is shipping so boohoo to those who cant understand that if i could have stuffed it in the hegemonic box everything would be fine, but if you buy large quantities you'll have to pay shipping. Makes sense to me..
Thanks for posting such a thorough array of thoughts, William. Very interesting - and although I have been thinking along the same lines, your calculations are an interesting read. I actually do not know yet what games I want to play with these - I don't have many games which require money (yet) - so I am opting for a flexible solution. I think I will drop the 3, 25 and 250 (if 200 is reached), and then out of my order of 41 packs get 3 of each denomination plus 1 pack extra of each denomination that starts with a 1.
I have updated the spreadsheet made by J D Sterling Babcock, so that it now has the new denominations. You can find it here:
Look at front page, it shows information and chart.
Basically the coins come in packs of 10 each, so you choose any mixured of ten packs of whatever coins you want. Here are two examples, but you can get them in any mix.
Example 1: You could choose fifty of the ten packs of the 5000 coin, and if this was what you wanted, you would get 500 coins of that type.
Example 2: you could choose 3 of the ten packs for every type of coin, and you'd get 30 coins of each of the 14 types, totaling 420 coins. The other 80 coins you could get in whatever configuration you want as long as they are packs of 10.
Example 3: Any possible mix of coins as long as they are packs of 10 each. A $110 pledge has fifty packs which you can choose in any mix you like.
I posted some long comment posts about choosing coins and how many players and what range various choices of coin mixes would do. Read them below if you like.
I payed for the Plededge $110 (500 coins) and payed more $35 (I living in Brazil).
What will I receive? I understand I will receive 500 coins, and I choose. Can tell me if this is correct? Can I choose the 250,500,1000,5000 and 10000 coins? Can tell me if I need pay more?
PS: Sorry by my poor english =)
Bah, I'm too tired sorry. Errors in that previous post. Somehow I was double counting. Lets see if I can get it right this time.
2 coins required from each tier mentioned previously means a single pack of 10 is enough for 5 ppl. 100 coins is 10 packs.
If one did the 100 coins $24 package, the range would be 1-3886 per player, with FIVE players max (doing it in the pattern shown in my previous reply).
If one did the 200 coins $45 package, the range would be 1-3886 per player with TEN players max (doing it in the pattern shown in my previous reply).
The 150 coin $34 package wouldn't work too well to add players, but would work to extend the range (could get to crazy numbers with 5k and 10k coins), OR to make it a more comfortable distribution without having to continually make change when playing at 5 players. Such as adding more 1's, 5's, 10's, etc.
Again, remember these are BARE MINIMUM numbers! If you plan to play with 5 players, but get enough coins to minimally support 10 players, it should be enough extra to be somewhat comfortable. Don't go randomly reducing your pledge without thinking it through first. Its NOT fun to make someone trade in and make change EVERY single time money changes hands.
Note that I'm personally aiming for 10 players, yet I'm getting a significantly higher 500 coin package which theoretically could do more than double that in players. That gives me plenty of breathing room, plus some extra packs to help pad out frequent denominations like the 1's.
Finally, count up the coins/money/points, etc in your favorite game(s). If the game feels comfortable while playing it, then take the number of bits as a guide to help guide how many you should get to work with that game. If the game feels like its always running out of something, consider getting extra of that number.
So, based on my minimum coin change calculations, keeping in mind the caveats I mentioned, its 20 coins per player to go any number from 1-3886.
10 people at 200 coins (the minimum since its 10 separate packs that are needed to do it this way with this high of maximum range). 20 people at 400 coins.
if one did the 100 coins $24 package, the range would be 1-86 per player, with 5 players max (doing it in the pattern shown in my previous reply).
If one did the 150 coins $34 package, the range would be 1-450 per player with 5 players max (the 15th pack being a single pack of 250 coins)(doing it in the pattern shown in my previous reply).
If one did the 200 coins $45 package, the range would be 1-3886 per player with 5 players max (doing it in the pattern shown in my previous reply).
You are probably right, I could use less 5k. Maybe do some more 10k in case there's any games that go that high.
I also am thinking maybe a few more of the lower numbers, partly based on this list here:
Its a list of a few board games and their money distributions. For instance acquire has more 100's.
There's also For Sale, which I came across today and it has more 1's. I'm not sure how practical it would be to replace them in For Sale since you are supposed to be able to hide your money, but I want to be pretty flexible.
I also came across a reference to a "greedy" type algorithum which focuses on the least amount of money, and the person doing it planned out a strategy to where 2 of something usually got you to next step, and if not, used part of a previous step.
Like two 1's gets you a 2. Two 2's gets you a 4 (which you can add back in a 1, and now you have 5). Two 5's get you a 10. Two 10's, plus one of the 5's gets you 25. Two 25's gets you to 50. Two 50's gets you to 100. Two 100's plus one of those 50's gets you to 250.
So a bare minimum per player to get to any possible number (unless I'm remembering or calculating wrong):
4x1000 (it breaks down here because there's no 2500, but still its pretty good).
?x10000 (depends on how high you want to go here).
So a worst case scenario would probably be something like making 999. That would be 1x250, 1x500, 2x100, 1x25, 2x10, 2x2, 1x1.
20 coins (goes up to 2x1000) to be able to make change of any number from 1-3886 for any single player.
Add in 2 extra 1000 coins to go up to 5886. Add 1 5000 coin to hit 15886 (with the missing 2500, I'm not 100% sure of being able to make any number in that upper range getting into the 10k area, but I'm too tired to figure it out right now, and my guess is that overshoot with the extra 1k coins should work out).
Now that should be just about the minimum to get any of those numbers. I say just about, because for instance, you could get just 1x1 coin per player because the 2 isn't halfway between 1 and 5, and you could probably get away without getting 2.
And this doesn't take into account that it will take more time to make sure everyone always trades in after every single transaction to have the optimal amount of money, so you can have enough.
But if you get money for enough players, there should be enough to go around generally speaking. For instance, if you normally play with 5 people and you got enough coins for 8 ppl, that should give a decent margin of extra coins to not waste time continually making change.
Now some games have specific amounts of money in the bank, like 18xx games. Or (although its incredibly rare) merchants of venus rules say if the bank runs out the game is over. And some games (like for sale) have extra coins in lower denominations since you increase bids generally in 1's and it would take too long to bid with anything other than 1's or 2's.
So feel free to modify the above to suit your own needs. This is just something I'm pondering, trying to figure out amounts.
Any other thoughts? Anyone else?
@William. Regarding your breakdown of 500 coins, I am thinking very much along the same lines as you. I have pledged for 360 coins, but I think I will add another 50 coins for $12 (making 41 packs in total), because that will allow me to achieve about the same breakdown as you've got. I see no need for 4 packs of 5000 CAPs, but other than that we have done pretty much identically. In order to maintain full flexibility, I would make sure to have enough 1000s, as there are no denominations between 1000 and 5000.
Correction: I am at 500 COINS and planning to go 1000 COINS, but with all these new coins came up within the last 24hrs, I can see myself wanting more than 100 COINS.
I didn't know Hegemonic still really late, and I might be one of the last one to back the game.
I pledge solely base on the description of the pledge, didn't read the updates nor the comments "the reason I miss out $5 extra set of coins".
Now I'm a bit worry, hope nothing backfire on my Hegemonic pledge.
@Calvin... first 50 will ship free with the game. The others, Minion will honor what they said but really want us to help cover the postage, which is higher than they expected.
Simplest way is to let Backerkit help you figure it out after the campaign ends and pay the small extra amount then if you need to.
I'm still lost, as I ask this question two times and got answers from you saying.
"Free shipping with original Hegemonic pledgers"
With the last update, you are giving me mix answer.
I want the to ship to US, and I'm currently at 1000 COINS and planning to change to 2000 COINS.
So are you honoring what the description said with free shipping ? to US?
if so how many coin I can get with free shipping?
On the update you said 200 COINS and the comment you said 150 COINS???
18 hours left, I need an answer.
@Tuomo, the collector set is also an add-on for 5$, no extra shipping.
Okay, I already dropped my pledge to the 150 coin level. Have to see if I put it back at 200 then. I'm fine with my box being opened if that means I can save almost $20.
On another note, about the collector pledge levels; If I want the collector pledge in addition to my 200 coins, do I still need to pay that $15 for the foreign collector, even though they can be sent in the same package? Or do these collector coins always end up sent separately?
So basically what I want to know is if I want 200 coins + collector + the 7 pouches & plastic arbitrer token fro the a la carte, I'm looking at $75? And no extra shipping? Or can I just add $5 for the collector and not the $15 for the international?
@minion sweet, thanks. Will upgrade to 280 now!
@minion @Chris wanted 2 x 200 not 2 x 400?
@Mark, yes, I think we shouldn't have a problem with 280 coins in the single box if you let us open and reshrink your hegemonic box. In fact I think that's going to be the default action unless you OPT OUT on the survey for anyone not wanting to pay a second shipping charge.
@Verclas, the coins and the hegemonic will come over on the same boat. I'm 80% sure we'll make GenCon but you never really know in this business
@Chris I-B - There is an 800 coin level please move to that. I do not want anyone over pledging for other coin sets other then the one $12 for 50. If you need a new reward level, just ask.
If all you're doing is buying coins - no matter what reward level you choose there is only 1 shipping payment for that reward (note the 500+ levels charge $10 more in the reward description)
If I mess up and don't mention Canada, it's always the same as the EU price.
If I were in the US the $5 shipping wouldn't be an issue and would go higher :p
@Minion Games so if we don't have a problem with opening our box (and assuming safely packed for overseas shipping) we could comfortably fit 280 in there? If that's the case I'll upgrade to the $63 pledge.
How realistic is the 'July 2013' ship date? Only curious as I see I could pick it up at GenCon. I figure Hegemonic itself is being printed (or close to it) but these coins will take more time. Just mulling over options.
Ok, Fair Enough... i suggest you run an update to all the backers to make sure noone is caught with their pants down..
@Chris I-B they have said that us canadians pay the 15.00 "EU" level for shipping.
Tuomo, it is a request (and a strong one for overseas people) - but I won't enforce anything beyond what the pledge texts already say. If you let us open your Hegemonic box I'm sure we can get 250 in one box then and no issues with shipping.
I suppose if you give us permission to unseal your Hegemonic box we could get 300 or so coins inside that box and the postage box. Again all guesses. I might add that option to the survey. But that's more man hours labor too.
Oh my, what a mess. So basically in the comments you're saying that if I bought Hegemonic with the 50 coins and I want to purchase more coins, I need to buy 150 or less more to keep me from having to pay shipping again? Okay, so now I need to drop my 200 coin pledge down to 150 coins. You might want to make this absolutely clear in the main body of the update and not just the comments.
What if i say "one way to find out, Screw the box if you have to and try your best!" i can do a really nice spread at 250 that i cant with 200...
@Corhen, they should... problem is we're dealing with a lot of unknowns and people don't want to damage their Hegemonic box by us over stuffing their box with coins, so we need to send them out in 2 boxes at some point. That point might be at 100 coins or 150 or 200. I think tit's closer to 150. So yeah if you got Hegemonic coming and you're wanting to keep the NO EXTRA shipping deal, then buy 150 or less coins. Though I hate to encurrage not buying more!
I'm a Canadian who backed Hegemonic and am pledging for 2x200 coins (400 coins in total). Since I need to pay shipping do I need to pay shipping twice (since I'm effectively doing 2 pledges of 200 coins) or just once (since it's shipping to the same address and will arrive in one box anyway)?
Also, what level of shipping to Canadian backers pay?
- the USA level (since we're on the same continent)
- the EU level (since we're not Americans, but are closer than Australia)
- the "Elsewhere" level (which seems ludicrous since we're closer to the USA than the EU but would have to pay $10 more than EU backers)
sorry, let me clear that up, buy 200 coins on this kickstarter.. +50 free in hegemogic... do the 50 in hegemogic count against my 200 shipping limit or not?
@Bigsixer, yes you need to add $5 shipping. All the new rewards that are not limited that start with XXX COINS require you to manually enter your shipping. To get 75 coins to your door in the USA is a $23 pledge payment to the $18 reward level
@miniongames So, if i bought Hegemogic back durring the kickstarter, and buy 200 coins here.. can i get 250 with free shipping?
I'm thinking for my 500 coins, a rough calculation of enough for 8 players, something like the following:
40x1 5 each for 8 ppl
20x2 2.5 each for 8 ppl
20x3 2.5 each for 8 ppl
30x5 3.75 each for 8 ppl
40x10 5 each for 8 ppl
20x20 2.5 each for 8 ppl
20x25 2.5 each for 8 ppl
30x50 3.75 each for 8 ppl
40x100 5 each for 8 ppl
20x250 2.5 each for 8 ppl
30x500 3.75 each for 8 ppl
40x1000 5 each for 8 ppl
40x5000 5 each for 8 ppl
40x10000 5 each for 8 ppl
430 total packs chosen out of 500.
My logic: I basically figure that the 1's and 10's of every section will get used the most, then the 5's, then the in between stuff like 2,3,20,25 or whatever. I'm getting enough of the 1's,10's for people to have a full set of 5 that they can trade in for the 5's of the next group. 5's only need about 2 to trade into 10's, so I have less of those. I could theoretically reduce the 5's down to a set of 2 and still have enough to for each of 8 players, but I figure I might as well get some extra. The in between stuff can be traded to make enough for most uses, and I'm not terribly interested in the 2's and 3's like some people are.
I'm sure some stuff could be tweaked or optimized, and I welcome suggestions, or if others have distributions, comparing them would be cool.
@cdaniel Only the people who participated in the original Hegemonic kickstarter campaign are getting any coins. They are getting to pick 50 more coins here. We are not forcing the kinds and it's easier if we don't.
@Zhaohan Chua, the Collector set is part of the ala-carte items you can get, so all you need to do is overpay by $5 per complete set of coins you wish to add to your order. So overbidding by $15 will put 3 of each type of coin in your box along with the other coins you choose after this campaign ends.
I'm in at the $18 level, in the US. Do I still add $5 for shipping?
OK, thanks for the clarification. By the way, in the end which coins and how many were included in the Hegemonic Kickstarter?