Running free in an anime-inspired game world!
Embark on a near-future sci-fi adventure in search of the "Legendary Legacy"!
by comcept USA, LLC
repost on all updates, until comcept gets it through their heads... someone has got to be reading this stuff!
For clarification of what I meant by vauge, the single image is confirming that yes it is a third person shooter, like Traditional Legends/Dash gameplay. However many advances in third person gameplay have been made, one of the stand outs being of course lost Planet (which Inafune worked on and a member of the main leads besides inafune is credited for in the "team section "). However there's also other ways to do third person besides that, namely the Gears of War way where your character kind of slows to a crawl when they start aiming while moving. There's also Infamous which I feel like is a good mix of the legends/dash style of shooting while moving using inhuman means mixed with using gears of War style cover at points. Then there's recent Metal gear games where it makes it more of a third person shooter about mixing mobility with well aimed shots in a plausible way for the average . And from this one image it can be anything of those. What we need is a mock up even if it's MN9 Beck in a 3d environment taking on a MN9 enemy, however even something like an animation mock up of Red Ash Beck fighting a MN9 enemy in a 3d environment would do well.
@Korudo I agree with a lot of the things you put out there. Let's hope Comcept sees it :)
(If my long comment is hard to read here, it's formatted better in the Comments. Not sure why the formatting changed, but I can't edit it now. Sorry about that.)
I was requested to re-post this in the update page. So, here you go.
"Please forgive me for hogging screen space, but I'd like to offer my contribution. I hope Comcept reads and considers it. Fellow backers, please let me know what you think as well.
(TLDR: I'm personally excited for this project, but Comcept's Kickstarter approach needs to evolve before this game can reach its full funding potential. Comcept's first Kickstarted game (Mighty No. 9) is not released yet, backers are facing Kickstarter burnout, there's a lack of visible stretch goals to shoot for, and the lack of product clarity must be addressed if we want to get this game the funding it needs.)
I have mixed feelings on this project. On the one hand, I am super-excited at the idea of playing a Mega Man Legends successor. If Legends 3 can't happen, I'm all for this. I seriously like Beck, Tyger, and Call's designs. I think this could be even better than Legends 2 if all goes well. I'm personally more interested in this game because there's been a ton of Mega Man games, not not a lot of Mega Man Legends games. I bought a 3DS in 2011 at the idea of playing Legends 3. I've backed Mighty No. 9 and I'll be getting 3 copies, and maybe one of the physical versions later if it's good....so I'm totally on board.
However, I think I understand several underlying reasons why this Kickstarter isn't progressing as well as it could. Frankly a lot of the issues here stem from Comcept not learning from the Mighty No. 9 Kickstarter, and their lack of understanding of how the Kickstarter market has evolved since 2013. My intention is to address issues this Kickstarter is facing, offer my suggestions to help with said issues, and open this discussion for fans, backers, and Comcept can use this feedback to improve the Kickstarter campaign.
I really want this game to blow past past all of its stretch goals, and I want this game to be the best it can possibly be. I believe in order for that to happen, some issues need to be addressed.
I hope my feedback can be of some value. Keep in mind that these issues don't necessarily reflect my own personal opinion, I'm just shining light on these perspectives I see people having.
Issues and Suggestions
Issue 1. Comcept's first Kickstarted game, Mighty No. 9, is not even out yet. Nothing has been proven.
Inafune may be a well-known game creator, but Comcept hasn't proven itself with its first Kickstarted game yet. You can only go so far on faith alone. I'm not sure what you can do now that RED ASH's kickstarter is already active though. I understand that Mighty No. 9's development is essentially done, but we haven't actually played the completed game yet.
Suggestion 1: Perhaps just reassure people (in video format) how and why you came to the decision to launch it when you did.
Issue 2. Comcept had a second crowd-funding for DLC, announcement of several spin-off media...before the game comes out
This makes sense from a business standpoint, but it's a PR nightmare after earning 400% of the original Kickstarter goal. That put a bad taste in people's mouths. Now there's a Live Action Mighty No. 9 movie and an Animated Series. The game isn't even out yet, and Comcept is partnering with another company to make a spin-off anime. Again, nothing is proven and backers feel like they're being taken for granted, and are hesitant to contribute to yet another Comcept Kickstarter as a result.
Suggestion 2: Make a quality game and let said quality speak for itself. Otherwise all of that is meaningless. It's ambitious and interesting, but fans feel like it's a distraction from the game's quality. Prove otherwise.
Issue 3. Fans have recently pledged to 3 other major Kickstarter within the past 2 months.
Yooka-Laylee and Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night are still fresh on people's minds, and Shenmue III's KS is still happening. I can sympathize with the amount of preparation for RED ASH would take, but Comcept had the ability to hold off on this announcement for a few months after hearing about those other three. Perhaps October would have been a better month to launch (after Mighty No. 9 was out for a month). But on the other hand, I also understand that they need to work and earn money now that Mighty No. 9 is complete on their end. Perhaps announcing RED ASH sooner would have been better? This is a Catch-22.
Suggestion 3. RED ASH is active now, so Comcept will have to really push the product and convince people why they need it more than ever (sorry, but it's true).
Issue 4. Comcept launched 2 simultaneous Kickstarters with (almost) the same title...on an American national holiday...in America.
This is a fun and ambitious idea because it appeals to anime fans at a convention, but it's pretty much lost on everyone else in the United States. Chances are not enough people even know about RED ASH because they were on vacation. Other countries saw it too....but the United States was the target audience for the presentation because Anime Expo was in San Francisco, California. News was slower as a result.
Suggestion 4. See Suggestion 3, but also reach out to Gaming and Anime media outlets aggressively. Do more interviews, more frequent Kickstarter updates, etc.
Issue 5. Bringing in new customers
The Kickstarter video showed concept art and an animation. That's great, but that doesn't really represent the gameplay. I've played Mega Man Legends, Misadventures of Tron Bonne, and Mega Man Legends 2....but what about people who haven't? How are you going to appeal to new customers that would be interested in your game? What do they have to go on?
Suggestion 5: The mock-up in Update #1 was fantastic, so this is definitely less of an issue. However I do feel like a more polished mock-up would be helpful. In addition....this may be tough to do, or even impossible...but make some kind of gameplay demonstration before the Kickstarter ends. Show people an idea of what they can expect. Playable at an event would be ideal. Good luck.
Issue 6. Lack of Console Ports / Lack of (Visible) Stretch Goals
People held off on the Shenmue III until the PS4 physical copy was revealed. I can understand not being able to port to consoles, but I think it would be a good idea to include it as a stretch goal. If people have a goal to shoot for (even if it's way far off), they're more likely to increase their pledge to help the project get there. Be transparent and let us work with you. But you have to give us something to go on.
Suggestion 6. Announce what amount of funding it would take to reach console ports, and detail which ones specifically require which specific amount of funding. That would require a possible full-transparency on your stretch goal plan, or at least far more than right now.
Issue 7. Physical Copy for PC is $89. Why?
Why is the physical copy so high in price? If it needs to be $89, can you tell us why? It's much more expensive than a standard game. Will it come in a cool box? Is there something special about it? I'd be inclined to raise my pledge to a physical copy if it was cheaper, or if the $89 had some kind of specific incentive behind it.
Suggestion 7. Lower the price or make the $89 physical copy really enticing somehow. It's not justifiable as-is.
Yooka-Laylee had a playable pre-alpha demo at e3, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night had Koji Igarashi played an early build on a stream. In 2015, you need to show people gameplay, concept art isn't enough anymore.
I hope this helps. Like I said: I really want this game to be as awesome as it can, because I really want to play it. I'm only critical because I love these types of games, and I want Comcept to use these remaining 27 days to the fullest.
People in general are more savvy to Kickstarters, so Comcept needs to evolve its Kickstarter processes in response. I have great expectations because I know Keiji Inafune and his team are capable of making fantastic games....but seriously....Kickstarter management needs to evolve, otherwise the game's scope will suffer. None of us here want that. Let's make RED ASH the best it can be!"
Go back and look at what they suggest for the transformations and power ups.
A giant hammer to break blocks in your way. A Tractor to push blocks while over spikes. A Magnet version to hover/disable enemy defenses.
Double Jump, Speed boost, flurry of punches, Screenwide nuke.
NONE of those made it into the game besides maybe the speedboost (which plays 0 role anyways because the game design has you dashing everywhere)
It came off *very* metroidvania-y with being able to unlock new routes depending on which boss you took on first. But no. We got Classic megaman where his buster is weaker, killing enemies is not as "profitable" as de-rezzing them and dashing into them, and Bosses that only provide transformations such that your attacks change. We got timed bonuses that let your attacks pierce (Energy bullets. Stop on contact.), take less damage (so cutting edge!), slightly faster walking speed (dashdashdashdashdash), and e-Tanks.
During the campaign there *was no gameplay* be it in demo/alpha/video form. It was ALL concept art. Inafune promised one thing with his KS description, and he gave something else.
@Xi The 11th Weapon: I have to agree. However it does kinda look like an anime styled Lost Planet... which I'd be totally cool with.
That mock up is pretty vague
That mock-up...already expecting that.
I hope the HUDs are diegetic like in Dead Space to fit the futuristic setting of the game's universe.
Maybe it is time to show off some console stretch goals? Some gameplay footage? Something to re-energize this kickstarter. Shenmue 3 did not help but man is this not doing well at all. Honestly I think it would have been better for MN9 to come out before doing this.
and no feedback from devs on this one? have they been talking in the comments at all this time around? is there any hope of them addressing the idea of addressing the issue?
and comcept seems to be completely oblivious to it. either they don't know, or don't want to deal with it.
Look what haters can do! mega man Xover wasn't brought stateside because of the haters. haters get results. it sways the public. a lot of people getting mad about something true or not has cost many their careers.
hate is indeed very powerful, especially when respected community members are doing the hating
Specifically in the comments section. Go look up red ash in gaming news site and just read those comments. =/
Eriks's right I'm afraid. go to any news article regarding this project and you will see the very same negative criticism in every one of them. =(
People need to stop bringing up Mighty No. 9 when talking about this game. Mighty No. 9 was the appetizer. Red Ash is the main course. FUND THIS!!!!
in all the comments in all the coverage I see, it's all negative in one way or another.
Anyway, hopefully whoever is handling this campaign will read it all and put this s#!t to work once it's JP worktime because right now this campaign is pathetic. We're with almost 3 days of campaign and it has just this update, no real presentation of the game past a shallow conceptual overview, no goals to look forward, no world presentation, no timeline references, just a single enemy (that prolly won't even go past this video) and crappy characters overview from video...
In short we got nothing to build hype on. By the end of 3rd day MN9 already had 3 updates in addition to a campaign page already way superior to RA in all aspects.
The thing is...there isn't enough haters. It's always the same ones stiring up shit everywhere in an atempt of making it look like it's more than a pin-pointed butthurt.
the reason MN9 got so interested was because of the hype train. people getting excited getting other people excited.
you underestimate the effect of group-think. haters can hate, but enough haters shows the public that hating is the right thing to do.
@Erik you're overestimating the impact it has. Haters can bitch as much as they want...you see what happened with signature edition. Sold-out in a matter of hours. Fans know his work so random ppl puking BS at forums will have little-to-no impact.
This campaign is slow by its own fault, not due MN9 or any troll BS against dev team.
check out the comments for any coverage for this project anywhere, all full of the same negative criticism.
mega man network: inafune betrayed fans funding an anime and screwed the community
protodude's corner: inafune betrayed fans funding an anime and screwed the community
nintendo life: now inafune is just being greedy, Mighty no 9 was a disaster, no one should fund this
all these unfounded negative comments will scare away potential backers!
I get the impression they got a little too ahead of themselves with the transformation ideas they wanted to implement. I can only imagine they couldn't think of level designs using these transformations that would fit well with their initial theme, which was of course, modernizing the Classic Megaman.
Anyways, if you all know anything about Megaman Legends, you know what to expect. This'll be more than that, and especially if we can get Tyger involved, so let's do our best to spread this around, yeah?
@Sabato it was never presented as metriodvania it was a modern take on megaman which it is. the last trailer was really close to the game concept art. It was not close close to weapons/abilities concepts but it was their fault for having concepts of 2 different art direvtions
as they mentioned in their FAQ, Rin, they want to make the game the best they can first, they won't rule out the idea of putting the game on console, but the first thing they want to do is make this idea a reality, y'know?
I just want a PS4 version or else I can't play it. I wont say anything else until I know I can play it. ;A;
I'd imagine running at the some time Shenmue 3 isn't helping, anyone wanting to back both will need to wait till their next payday which hopefully falls within the time limit.
Would've encouraged more backers initially if there was more than just concept work like with MN9 which had sprites and in game renditions with details of unique features of the game. Though I understand it would be far more difficult as its a 3D game rather than side scroller but it would look more appealing if you have something to show potential backers.
Either way I've backed both this and the anime adaption,i'm looking forward to seeing this game in action.
Okay, so, having stuck around on Kickstarter long enough, this project will be *lucky* to meet its goals without a minimum viable product to display what you're offering.
There are SO MANY over the shoulder third person shooters out there that honestly a lot of people are sick of them. The reason MN9 took off so well on concept alone was because of the big name behind it, and the fact that it was the start of "the return of the great creators". Since then the big name was kinda tarnished, and the return is in full force, so without a solid demo this has become "just another kickstarter".
I know that this game is Inafune's new Legends baby, but it *really* needs a lot more care in the presentation than it's currently getting. I too get "Gears of War" vibes from the artist's mock up. And I was burnt once on the MN9 kickstarter misrepresenting what the final game was going to be like. It presented itself as a Metroidvania Megaman, and what we got was... Megaman. I don't need this to present itself as a Legends Tomb Raider only to get back Gears of War.
More Consoles= A wider audience for more backers
Please reconsider having Xbox One,Wii U and PS4 as an option.
@Erik ...or, you know, don't. Most issues at MN9 were fully created by backers themselves and they're better out of this project.
Any and all impact MN9 drama could have here certainly is unoticeable. The reasons this one is slow-paced is due this very campaign's noticeable flaws, nor MN9. A dozen troll backers don't carry enough weight to affect a campaign like MN9 or even this one.
If you have any doubts about this just look at BS campaign. Nearly the same team, including some the trolls even targeted and yet it went perfectly fine.
Okay, here's something that needs to be addressed. the whole community fiasco with MN9 and the community manager is having a negative impact on Inafune and comcept's reputation. Everywhere on the internet, people are saying how terrible the MN9 kickstarter was and that no one should back this project.
It's something that really needs to be acknowledged and addressed. ignoring it is exactly the traditional japanese game company reaction we all thought comcept wasn't. we all expected open communication and respect for the consumers.
Comcept can't start a new kickstarter without even acknowledging the shortfalls of the previous one. it's infamous and misinformation runs rampant.
I feel like there really needs to be an update acknowledging that things happened, mistakes were made, and we need to be assured that comcept actually cares about the issue, that the same mistake not only won't happen, but that comcept will be ever so vigilant in this respect.
All we got was an update where the community manager was leaving comcept, getting flowers and being treated like she did her job well. regardless of how much of what happened was true or not, she scarred comcepts reputation, and comcept turns around, acts like nothing happened and starts another kickstarter like everything was forgotten!
I want this project to succeed, and I don't want it to fail to reach it's potential because comcept won't acknowledge the rift between it and the community, and will simply shy away and ignore it.
people still think that funding was asked for a cartoon! is it that hard to make an update specifically correcting that? it took 3 months even to ambiguously address it!
please don't make the same mistakes. please take some sort of step to restoring the community's confidence.
well, legends 1 was about 11 hours long, and I'm sure it cost well over 800k to produce.
Well, 8hrs of gameplay feel kinda short for an RPG even though it's vey acceptable for action games so i'd assume it may be leaning toward action/adventure more than RPG.
I liked the mock-up. Would rather see the full character on screen though (these kite cameras may end bad like RE 6, with the character covering too much of the screen).
We aso got several comments about Tyger playable...but nothing about Call (or the Not-Tron witch). Seeing Call is armed i wonder if she'll come as playable character option at some point.
Can we get better clarification of getting a ps4 port if enough goals are reached through kickstarter
Please make the combat about dodging, not taking cover.
I'm getting Gears of War vibes from the gameplay mockup, but not in a good way.
I'm very excited for this and I hope it succeeds, but the start of this campaign isn't so encouraging.
Stretch goals: we know there are going to be a lot, including several to expand the game world and at least one playable character. Tell us what they are so people get excited about contributing.
Game length: 8 hours is still confusing. Detractors to this project are telling people this game is just a demo. If it is 8 hours minimum, please say that. If it is 8 hours after all the stretch goals, say that clearly.
Tyger Mockup: it sends a very strange message to everyone that your concept for this game is one you cannot currently implement. Exactly how much do you need from this campaign to make that game, and why on earth didn't you set that as the initial goal?
Cool! I'm really excited for this game. Assuming it gets backed will there be a separate kickstarter for the "full" release? And are there any outside funders, and I assume Comcept is investing their own funds into the project?
But thanks for this update! I have a few friends that were skeptical of the scope of the game/project and this should help clarify things for them.