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A vicious dragon is out there... Assemble your party at the tavern... Slay the dragon! Grab the treasure! OH GLORIOUS GLORY!!!
A vicious dragon is out there... Assemble your party at the tavern... Slay the dragon! Grab the treasure! OH GLORIOUS GLORY!!!
10,877 backers pledged $250,070 to help bring this project to life.

More Preliminary Artwork & Decisions...

Posted by Michael Mindes (Creator)

First, I will start with the decisions that have been made definitively:

  • Dungeon Roll will be fully supported by TMG with hero booster packs, future expansions, and so forth.
  • All of you backers are fantastic people.
  • The base game will have at least 8 heroes, but will probably only have those 8 heroes.
  • Dungeon Roll will be 100% supported for the distribution and retail channels to the extent that we can control. This will likely include introductory deals which include demo copies and so forth.
  • Allow for significant online support for the community surrounding Dungeon Roll.
  • and more.

Now, onto the decisions to be made, which are numerous for me at this point. Some of which include:

  • Exactly how and what extent to have support for the Dungeon Roll community online. Do we go so far to encourage user-generated game content? What is the best method for this support (forum? blog? other?)?
  • What should the final retail price be? I want to target $14.95 and this is why I started the Kickstarter project in the first place, but the marketplace shows that games with less stuff can reliably sell many copies at $14.95, like Martian Dice and Zombie Dice. I have somebody that I trust greatly who is saying that I should price Dungeon Roll at $19.95. I will likely make this decision today, and report back tomorrow.
  • How often should TMG look at releasing additional game content for Dungeon Roll? Should we look at having booster packs of heroes multiple times a year and other expansions once or twice?
  • What should I do in these final days of the Kickstarter project to get things ramped up from this amazing start that we have already had?

I have some calls with great minds about how to go about answering these questions, and I should be able to provide those answers in the days to come.

Now, For Lots Of Artwork

Ryan worked heavily through the weekend and we have several sketches which will be used for starting points to create the final artwork.

These are preliminary sketches, and we will handle the finalization internally. We already have several modification that are planned, but I wanted you to be able to see these.

We are also still right on our very tight schedule and fully expect to be delivering Dungeon Roll by August.

In order, we have:

  • Scout (modified from old dragon slayer, he will be losing the beard and stache)
  • Dragon Slayer (the old dragon slayer has been modified to be the scout)
  • Enchantress
  • Alchemist
  • Bard
  • Image 222362 original.jpg?ixlib=rb 1.1
  • Image 222363 original.png?ixlib=rb 1.1
  • Image 222364 original.png?ixlib=rb 1.1
  • Image 222366 original.png?ixlib=rb 1.1
  • Image 222367 original.png?ixlib=rb 1.1
  • Image 222368 original.png?ixlib=rb 1.1


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    1. Gregory Gresik on

      Thank you for using female renderings that are NOT sexist or objectivying. As a gamer who games with his wife and 16 year old daughter, I grow tired of the offensive portrayal of females - especially that which usually shows up in the fantasy genre - it aint supposed to be THAT kind of fantasy! Nicely done. This is my first Kickstarter backing - well done.

    2. Missing avatar

      Jeremy Fridy

      Wait, female options with good armor? MADNESS! I like!

    3. SethJaffee on

      @Jacob - the cards are Novice on one side and Master on the other, so no male/female flipable cards - sorry! Also, that's twice as much artwork, for 14+ heroes that's almost $3,000 that was not planned for, not to mention the many man hours of work for the artists - I don't think there's time for that before the deadline!

    4. Zymm315 on

      Maybe have flipable hero cards, one a male side and the other female...that way all genders would be covered and have a cool rendering for each :P

      Other than that, I'd pay $20 for this game personally, if it means more content and doing it right that is. Sooooo excited for this project, definetly looking forward to August! :}

    5. Blank Wall Games on

      - I think a forum would be cool.
      - I would like if Dungeon Roll retailed for $15. I understand that the higher profit margin is beneficial for TMG and allows you to put out more games, but I think a lower price point is more beneficial.
      - Expansions: No comment
      - You've run a great campaign thus far. You should redo the update asking people to spread the word with the supporter graphic. Not everyone reads past updates.

    6. PzVIE on

      Expansions: I'd prefer fewer, but with more content. Make the package valuable. Cards & Dice. The price tags are ok for me.


    7. Missing avatar

      Eric Whitt on

      It's not often you see a product where the bulk of the consumers are saying they would pay more then what you're proposing to sell it at... that's got to be a good sign right?

    8. Hann Boe on

      i ment to say "maybe even a few MORE kickstarter exclusive heroes"

    9. Hann Boe on

      maybe even a few kickstarter exclusive heroes.

    10. Hann Boe on

      Really like the artwork! thanks for giving us a sneak peak.

      Beyond the possible graveyard, are there plans to make more Heroes or dice available? It seemed for every $5000 something was awarded. In fact, I would much rather have either additional heroes or dice instead of even the graveyard...

    11. Darryl G on

      I like the guildmaster. :) She definitely looks like a boss.

    12. Michael Mindes 35-time creator on

      @Scott - The bard will end up as he ends up, I like the sword personally.

    13. Scott Everts

      Great artwork! I'm fine with them the way they are. The bard doesn't bother me since we don't have to stay within normal fantasy conventions with every character. Heck, the battlemage isn't your normal thin, gaunt mage fellow at all.

    14. Bob Moyer on

      I'm cool with the 20 price point. There is a lot of content in the box.

      As for the expansions, consider the model Slugfest Games used with Red Dragon Inn. Each of the three editions are stand alone games with a unique blend of characters which can then be combined (mixed / matched). If you want to expand the game to add variety to the adventuring party, go for it. But the core of the game doesn't radically change with each expansion (like MTG).

    15. Marty McFly on

      @Alberto - While my personal preference is simply that I can tell the class of the character by the picture (I see that it's a bard by the instrument, and that's good enough for me) I will concede that the weapon is a little out of place given the theme of that class (in other words, Rogue=Mage) in this game. A smaller rogue-type weapon would fit the game better.

    16. Kevin Brown on

      I really appreciate the number of female characters in this. I'm pretty sure my daughter will have a tough time picking between the Enchantress, the Alchemist and the Guild Leader! Only way she'll be able to pick is based on which one has red hair.
      Yah. That was a suggestion. A little heavy handed, I know. Tug at the heart strings and all that! ;)

    17. Missing avatar

      Juan C. on

      I think bringing up the possibility of a higher retail price than the KS price is a brilliant move from a marketing point of view. I'm new to KS, so I'm not aware if this hasn't been done before. I wouldnt be surprised if this translates in a new wave of supporters backing the campaign.

      I'm saying this in the least cynical way. Most small games with far fewer components retail over $20 regularly. Having such a low price is what pushed me in to back DR as my first KS backed project. It's a steal for what seems a great little game. Good luck, and keep bringing the stretch goals!

    18. Missing avatar

      Kipton Kohlman on

      The variants created by the game's fans should give you a good idea about what kind of new content they desire. One thing I think fans may want is the opportunity to buy more dice of their choosing. Good new content once a year is better than okay content several times a year.

    19. Keith & Diana on

      If in doubt, more cards would be just fine. :)
      Maybe more treasures at some point too, but I get that that's a nontrivial boost in price.

    20. Michael Mindes 35-time creator on

      @ALL - I need to finalize some details about being able to finish the stretch rewards before I make further ones public knowledge.

    21. THoiA on

      As for retail Price Point why not got with $18.95. Psychologically speaking that's keeping people in the mind frame of "Less than $20". Yet it still increases your profit margin from $14.95 quite a bit.

      As for the artwork I like what I see so far just fine. I'm of the mindset that fantasy artwork is just that...fantasy and well the women should hearken to the Heavy Metal days of old and show more cleavage! At least that's how my fantasies work...and yep I raised my daughter like appreciate the human form and not be embarrassed by it.

      *braces for flame wars*

    22. Michael Mindes 35-time creator on

      @David - "1) Beware of the "Bootser" trap. Having a small add on that is static to increase the replay value is a great idea. Adding "Collectible Boosters" with random contents (like MTG) often will kill a game.
      WotC and WizKids beat this horse till it was good and dead. Many players are not fond of this funding/fleecing style these days."

      We will not have any sort of expansion which would be incentivized to buy more than once. That is for a different type of product.

    23. Michael Mindes 35-time creator on

      @Kristen - "For me, Munchkin is an example of this, and not a good one = every time I see a new expansion, it feels like they're just milking the cash cow that Munchkin has become."

      I understand this, but if many of the fans will support it and want it, then it would be a disservice to not provide it.

    24. Michael Mindes 35-time creator on

      @All - The bard will be adjusted...

    25. Alberto Vitali on

      @ Marty McFly - You're absolutely right on the bard.

      I'm just more inclined to think about a bard as someone similar to an european medieval minstrel, and not a worrior with armor and sword.

      Those sketches are GORGEOUS! Ryan is a truly talented artist. :D

    26. Michael "Maikeruu" Pierno

      "What should I do in these final days of the Kickstarter project to get things ramped up from this amazing start that we have already had?"

      Give us an idea on other stretch goals. More heroes that we can obtain reasonably in the last few days. Update and maintain the front page to draw in people not already on board. Add a new level with some sort of add on, possibly variant cards or dice, that is cost effective for you to increase the pledges of existing members.

    27. Marty McFly on

      @Alberto - that does look like leather armor on the Bard, to me at least. Notice the buckle holding the shoulder plate, the far glove looks like the cuff has notched leather, and the boots are definitely not metal. The only thing that looks armored to me is the bracer on the closer arm.

    28. Keith & Diana on

      Awesome! Keep the promo packs comin' as stretch goals, perhaps? (Not least because I'll probably never be able to afford the sodding things afterwards, international shipping sucks!)

    29. Shawn Dickey on

      instead of "expansions" per se, why not work on games from different genres using the same rules? each would be standalone or compatible with other sets. a western, sci fi , horror,or even sports theme might work really well with your rules.

    30. Marty McFly on

      @Keith - the KS box will have 14 Heroes. The 8 base set Heroes + the Guild Leader + 5 promo pack Heroes.

    31. Keith & Diana on

      So to confirm, the kickstarter box will have 9 heroes? There's no plans to, eg, throw in an extra couple stretch goal cards if we keep shooting for the moon?

    32. Alberto Vitali on

      Please, don't let the Bard to wear a heavy armor... use some simple leather jacket or breast protection. :D

      A small sword or, better, a dagger is fine as primary weapon... He's a storyteller, a ballad singer... not a warrior. ;)


    33. Chris Darden

      The characters will only be seen from the waist up or so on the cards, so you can't go to dynamic with poses or you'll lose some detail.

      Love the Dragon Slayer.. he looks like he's tanked out.

    34. Julia Gosztyla Ziobro

      I go along with the $20 price point. I paid $20 for Jaipur, a game that we love, but it has much simpler components. I am never opposed to people making a bit of money on an excellent effort, and I've paid more for games that aren't as good! :-)

      Love the art... agree on the women... thrilled to have them... wish the poses weren't quite so "samey"... but appreciate the good efforts being made and have full confidence in enjoying the finals.

      I vote for the forums on BGG... they are well-established, have mostly had good love for TMG over the years, and it feels like the community place to be. I'd rather not see TMG make a big investment in duplicating BGG's big investment, if you see what I mean.

      I'd love to see TMG publish one "fan" booster a year (maybe with two user's ideas) and one "company" booster a year from the game designer. Add in three to four new-character promos at the Cons and then the BGG store, and you've got a lively ecosystem that won't overwhelm too many people. My rule of thumb is that an expansion/booster can cost half the MSRP for the game itself and if I love the game, I'll buy it without question. At a higher price point, I have to research/consider, but can be convinced if there are significant enhancements and new components. Maybe I'm unusual that way though.

      Blinging out the KS project for the last few days? Pre-announce the first expansion? Add a single extra KS-green die for one or both kinds of dice? Just keep showing us art? I'm not sure. I'm already convinced of the awesomeness. :-)

    35. Missing avatar

      Jamie T on

      Love the magic compass! And I would still fork out $20 for a copy regardless of what box it is in (although I do understand people wanting a choice between a mimic and a classic treasure chest).

      I think once this game is out there will be an almost instant homebrew crowd cranking out more Heroes and extra rules - I would rather get the 'core game' done and dusted first rather than risking the dreaded feature creep.

      Still excited about this!

    36. Missing avatar

      Mark McGee on

      At the $15-$17.95 range, you're in there with Forbidden Island and The Resistance, and you're underneath Munchkin (base game). If your business plan works at $15, but your game has enough stuff to sell for $20, then I'd put it at $17.95 or $16.95 so that when it's on the shelf next to games like Forbidden Island (which is a great value), it looks like you're the same sort of value.

      I bought Forbidden Island on a whim because it looked good and had a good price point. I would not have done it for $20, but I did for $16.95.

    37. Missing avatar

      MK on

      Allowing the community to help is a great idea. How about a discussion forum, and a web app so that people can create their own heroes?

      It has been discussed before, but a great idea for an expansion would be the possibility of one player being the dungeon. Right now they have no choices (just roll dice) but it could be changed with another expansion maybe? extra heroes would always be nice

      As for expansions...I am all in for it, but maybe multiple expansions a year is a bit too much. It becomes hard to track them, and play them all (at least it is my feeling with LCG). How about one per year? or one every 1.5 years?

      As for price...I feel that you will sell a lot of copies at 20$ as well. However, at the 15$ price range it is very easy for people to buy even without having read anything about the game. Indeed, if the benefit is so low..maybe you should aim for 18$?

    38. David Swanson on

      Good Update!

      If you are looking for some Feedback. I have just a little I would like to add.

      1) Beware of the "Bootser" trap. Having a small add on that is static to increase the replay value is a great idea. Adding "Collectible Boosters" with random contents (like MTG) often will kill a game.

      WotC and WizKids beat this horse till it was good and dead. Many players are not fond of this funding/fleecing style these days.

    39. Matthew Schneider on

      I would be willing to pay $20 for a game like this. That seems to be the norm for games like these anyways.

      Also, the art is excellent. I really appreciate how diverse the characters are in appearance, and how you're not adhering to negative fantasy stereotypes like the female adventurer with armor only on her chest and crotch.

    40. Sander Bol on

      If the base game is great, please don't screw it up with too many boosters and expansions!

    41. Kristen on

      For a dissenting opinion, I lean more toward what Steven said quite a bit below; regarding promo packs and expansions, less is better. Sorry Connor, but I think that it is VERY possible to have too many booster packs and expansions. For me, Munchkin is an example of this, and not a good one = every time I see a new expansion, it feels like they're just milking the cash cow that Munchkin has become.

      My 2 cents.

    42. Marty McFly on

      As @Michael just mentioned, I'm also a sucker for expansions. However, what I usually don't like is an expansion that changes the mechanics of the game so much that it becomes a different game. There is certainly a fine line between adding new content while keeping with the original feel of the game. And I fully understand that every idea you'll ever have can't be covered upfront. But I would ask that some of those things be considered for the final design of the base game.

      For example, if there is the possiblity of new dungeon bosses in future expansions, design for that NOW. There's already talk of a Dragon's Lair card, so put the rules for "summoning" and defeating the Dragon on the card, along with the reward. The rules can then just reference the boss card without changing the original base game mechanics. This leaves the game open for expansion without the need to change the rules.

      What I seem to find most often is that I'll buy the first 2 expansions of a game I really like, find that the game play has been changed so much that I rarely play the second expansion. The third expansion then falls off my radar completely. And, yet, as a sucker for expansions, I still fall into the trap... Guess my wife is right -- I'm not nearly as smart as I say I am... :-)

    43. Missing avatar

      Connor Kirk on

      I'm with most people here. I would be willing t pay $20.00 for this game, easy! An online community might be a little hard to do at first, but I feel like will provide a great catalyst for starting such an online community. Also, people LOVE to have input on their games, and as BGG shows, they are usually well thought out, and are good additions to gameplay. And you can NEVER have too many booster packs and expansions. The only thing I would think to do is to make sure the booster packs/expansions are reasonably priced. I have seen many things not sell very well on amazon because people ask too much for additional content. But then again, I'm no business major and am just basing this off what I see, not what I know :P. But I love ths game already and would love to see additional characters and monsters!

    44. Alex Lam on

      Artwork looks awesome! Great job!

    45. Workshop YS on

      the dragon slayer looks much better now. glad you switched the original to the scout as that looks appropriate.

      however, the poses are starting to look the same. the women all have the open stance, the guys are all standing there. i miss the original characters' dynamic poses.

    46. Michael on

      I don't think I would be very willing to shell out more than one $20 bill for this game. Let's face it, probably the only place I'm paying full MSRP for a game is if I see it in a brick and mortar store. Where I live (and most places where I travel) sales tax is in the range of 7.5 to 9.5% these days. So when I see this on the shelf for $18 or less I would probably buy it knowing that the after tax price will stay under $20. Much more than that (and let's face it, nobody prices stuff at $18.43), and I'd probably walk away.

      I am, however a sucker for expansions (lousy OCD).

    47. Missing avatar

      guardian J

      Also, correct my if I'm wrong, but aren't the cards already double sided with the "Master" abilities on the other side? At least from the demo videos looks like he is flipping them over when they upgrade. Is that still in the production version?

    48. Ryan Johnson on

      The dragon slayer may just look a lot like one of the people responsible for the game...

    49. Missing avatar

      guardian J

      Oh, and I'd like to see a forum type for community support, with user generated content. Something where TMG is actively supporting and pulling out ideas to publish in character packs (i.e. come of the content for Small World and Ticket to Ride Maps)

      Personally, I like to see what people are coming up with but don't really PnP with that content because it never seems as refined as when the developer takes the idea to publishing. But it is cool to see official content that has user community designer names.

    50. Ryan Johnson on

      Thanks for the comments. Now that we know what the bard has been doing.... His hand is going to look awkward now matter what.. :)

      Actually this will be addressed... These are very loose pose sketches. I'll likely pit his hand lower on his 'hilt' or switch left to right..