SHAKER: An Old School RPG is 1st-person, party-based, fantasy/sci-fi RPG brought to you by award-winning veterans.
by Loot Drop
I agree with Jog
A board-game grid to control position of allies ( allowing strategic movements like the ones in some board games, like D&D ) would be awesome.
Love turn based games XD
IMO the perfection of that combat system was like it was done in Albion & Amberstar/-moon. It added a small board-game grid to the combat screen where each party member and the enemies were represented as icons, melee attacks could only be made to adjacent fields and you could move your party within your half of the combad grid, so the mage could retreat from the front line. Added a whole new layer of tactics to that old system.
Reminds me of the first time I played phantasy star on the Master System. I died on my first fight when I came out of the city, some giant bat-winged eye thing killed me. You could travel between planets too and I think the last boss looked a bit like a blue terminator without legs.. Can't remember much more but I know I enjoyed it :) Looking forward to get my ass kicked again.
Ah, 80's and early 90's RPGs. I won't say "those were the days", especially since I didn't really play RPGs yet at that point in time, but the formula (including the turn-based battles) has a good deal of charm.
I really hope the SHAKER Kickstarter is going to be successful, but if it doesn't make it... don't give up! Just think over your presentation, see if there's anything about your ideas you might have to tweak, and try again! :)
Thanks everyone for the comments!
Erekose: you have completely free movement in the world, not locked into a grid. Once you enter combat, you are locked facing the enemy group (they align for easy selection), until combat concludes. You stay in the same first person PoV the entire game.
Yin Yin: you -- haha, thanks for Bofferbrauer, for helping out with your responses!
There are lots of tweaks and niceties that come from iterative playing of the game and seeing how the combat feels. Want to make it awesome as possible!
So this is really a round base combat as in good old days? Hmm.. I would prefer an option for Realtime Fights and love combinations between FPS and RPG.
I don't know... I'd just prefer a "Baldur's Gate"-esque combat system I guess, I watched some Wizardry 8 videos - seems to be a similar combat system - and it doesn't looked that appealing to me...
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well since you can see the ennemies coming you could also cast the buff before starting the fight. This way it would even save your Mage some action
I totally agree on initiative when it comes to dealing with enemies. But why can't we tell OUR warrior to wait for OUR mage? Certainly we can't tell someone to act earlier because of the initiative, but i would really like to be able to tell my party members to wait for someone to act first.
True, a Stamina bar like in Wizardry would be quite interesting, especially in long fights
Normally in round based Fights this all goes over initiative, meaning if you want a Mage to buff a Fighter before he makes his first swing you will have to raise the Initiative of your Mage the one of the Fighter. However, since buffs stay generally active for several rounds of turn-based combat the timing of buffs ain't as critical as in real-time combats. It's very important for healing spells, though
Will you be able to tell a player to wait until after a different character has acted? For example if you wanted a mage-type character to buff a warrior and then the warrior to take his turn, you would tell the warrior to only attack after the mage has buffed him.
But I prefer good old random encounters : /
Shaker will be Gridless. Battles will probably stay in 1st Person View, too, as it was in Wizardry 8. I don't see where the combat System was problematic in that Game, the problem there was more that you generally hat 10 or more ennemies coming up to you and so were able to surround your entire Party if you let that happen
@Yin Yin Leong
Yes, you see them coming from afar and even possibly sneak by
How come I don't see stamina bars on the mockup?
Hmmm so combat style is not random encounter but you see the enemy on the screen?
thanks for the update Loot Drop!
i like that NPC recruits take some trust levels before you can control them. it reminds me of the combo system from the PS2 Wizardry game where trust between characters would let more useful combo attacks to be unleashed on enemies.
i loved how dark PS2 Wizardry was. First Person POV, both in exploration and in turn based battle mode, but still had a grid the player walked on.
Is Shaker is going to be gridless? (like Deus Ex, Gothic, Skyrim)
or have a grid? (like Rogue, Persona, PS2 Wizardry)
did the battles pop the viewpoint out behind the character party or was it locked in as 1st person POV during battle as well?
@Loot Drop or any Wizardry 8-ologists
will this battle system still be as problematic in the same way as Wizardry 8? (how does it differ which resolves the issues?)
will i be constantly looking for alleys and corners to retreat into and to battle from?
quote from Wizardry 8 wiki:
"For the first time in the Wizardry series, players can see enemies approaching instead of having them pop up randomly. Combat is turn-based, although a continuous-phase mode can be toggled. Because combatants are free to move during combat, some disadvantages of the combat engine can quickly become apparent. Fights with more than ten enemies can become tedious, while spells that cause fear can cause the enemies to run away, even though the player's party is still flagged as being in combat. Due to the way enemies tend to surround the party, it is often necessary to retreat into nooks and crannies in the terrain in order to prevent being flanked."
Very cool. Still not sure if I like the premise of the story yet, gotta mull it over some, but looooove these type of combat systems. Can't wait to learn more :)
@Merin - Yeah, the first time I saw one of the early JRPGs, the first thing I thought was, "Oh, look, it's the combat screen from Phantasie." :-)
Bard's Tale was the same as Wizardry (and Might & Magic)
And while D&D started as a wargame spinoff, in the early days it was mostly played narratively, rather than moving little guys around a grid tactically. You just had a "marching order", the fighters and clerics up front, the wizards in the middle and the thief behind
Type. It should be "putting the attacker within range of attacks of opportunity".
@Peter If I'm not mistaken, AD&D similarly has weapons with "extended range", such as spears, that can strike enemies without putting the attacker range of attacks of opportunity and things like that. So I think the front/back rows thing is a heritage from PnP. Unless those things were added to later editions of AD&D.
Awesome update #6 ! Been looking for this style for a long time now. You know i love you and i'm backing you 100% Tom, Brenda and Loot Drop( You had me at old school RPG ), but please get some art, screen shots, concept art or something visual for us (mostly those non believers) to gaze upon!
JRPG's got it from copying games like Ultima, Wizardry and Might & Magic.
And if you played SSI games, you should recognize this from Phantasie. :)
@Peter Yes, I'm pretty sure the JRPGs got the front/back rows from Wizardry. I'm not sure, though. What I do know is that many of the Wizardry games have it. Wizardry 7 has front/back rows for both the enemy and player sides, with some interesting rules for which weapons/spells reach what. It also uses enemy groups, and spells target either one foe, one group, or all of them.
Finally, some real details. I like the direction.
This is the the first update that actually made me have any real interest.
I wish these details were provided before, as I know many of my friends have already passed this up.
Hopefully actual details like these may renew interest.
Been a long time since I played Wizardy .. did it have the same japanese console rpg front/back combat system? Guess I should go look it up. Never was much a Wizardly guy, was much more into SSI and Bards Tale.
@Peter Because it's inspired by Wizardry, I would assume.
Awesome. I just started a new game of Dark Savant, can't wait for this.
Why this way and not more like SSI's free flowing tactical D&D fights like Pool of Radiance? Much prefer that over the 8bit console front/back rank model.
+1 Jared Fite :)
Sounds Wizardry-esque. Cool. What will you do outside of combat, when there's free movement? Can we expect puzzles and the use of skills and spells to find secret areas and stuff?
Yay! Thanks for your support!
And thanks for all the nice comments!
Thanks for the update! I was on the fence at first, but the recent updates are definitely making it interesting. You've got yourself another pledge!
Make a vostfr version for the game
Interesting. You don't get to control the NPCs until they like you. That's different.
Awesome! Been craving a nice turn-based RPG for awhile. I think people will be happier with the information you are providing in this update :)
It's too bad you guys didn't have project details ready before you announced it. You've definitely lost a lot of the propulsion and public attention that you would have otherwise had. Gotta go into things prepared, people aren't as enthusiastic about funding a blank page!
:) , my favourite type of combat, hopefully the magic from Wizardry will make an appearance!