Become the most popular Martial Arts stuntman Hollywood has ever known, while learning real Kung Fu techniques and fighting in movies!
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I wanted this game so bad. I do hope you guys continue with it. I'll sure as hell buy it when I comes out. Good luck.
I'm also very sad to see this game fail to reach its funding target.
To Kostas and all at Kinesthetic - I hope your next project is a real winner - and I have no doubt that you can reboot the KFS project as a next gen Xbox title. Why not request a dev-kit?
Sorry to see that this great project did not get flly funded. I hope the fact that it almost reached halfway gives some hope to the team.
I sincerely hope that the next console generation implements accurate motion detection tech right out of the box and that studios make good use of it. Hopefully then, motion games wont be written off. I feel bad for the team, that this great idea suffered due to the poor implementation and sloppy execution of motion controled games in this generation where the tech wasnt quite up to what it needed to be. This gave a very bad impression of motion games.
I would like to urge the team to re-consider making a smaller xboxlive/psn/pc game which has value in itself, but also works a s a proof of concept, to show people the controls work. Then Im sure the good press from that, combined to increased accuracy of next gen motion controls, should lead to a sucessfull campaing for the fully fledged game in the future.
The last push was silly. So, you got 94K in pledges, from 500 people, 7 of which pledged 5K each. This will not get you any more respect from publishers in the future, and I hope Kickstarter implements some way of preventing such shenanigans. All it shows is that the system is easy to game - we start off with 200K goal, 20 of us pledge 5K each, then as people flock to the "almost-funded" project we start reducing those pledges, and if it still doesn't work out, we cancel with 25h to go. No downside.
In any case, good luck, I really hope you get a chance to make this game one day.
At least you reached ~ 50%.
It is not like people are not interested in a martial arts game. If it was a sequel to Mortal Kombat, it would have been funded. There is more to it than just interest or the lack of it.
Good luck next time.
get it over 100k !
Ungh, I really need to stop posting walls of text.
doesn't work like that. Besides, it is kind of obvious that a lot of people are overpledging to show support, rather than the money they are willing to part with.
To be more specific, when you start a kickstarter, you set the amount of time it will run for, then the time is set in stone. Previous statistics have shown that most really successfull kickstarters have been on a pretty short 30 or so day-ish run, while a lot of slow burning, lower goal kickstarters run a better chance of making it on a longer run.
For a kickstarter with a goal on this level to succeed, it basically needs to be on a 30 day run and recieve 20-25% funding on the first two days, and a lot of exposure. This did not happen on this kickstarter, sadly.
Personally, I think the main reason this kickstarter failed is basically what the rock paper shotgun article viewed as a problem, that it looks dishonest. A lot of people who really take the time to read through stuff thoroughly, like journalists, probably found that the origin kickstarter game was not the full deal, and didn't want to put prestige on the line advertising this project, which would explain the lack of coverage despite this game looking really, really good, even in it's current form.
I'd need a second opinion from someone who knows more, but I guess that was the main reason.
If you decide to go try again I will definitely back it again. If possible I think you can get more backers with a us kickstarter. I hesitated to back it at first because of the currency change. Maybe start it as a us and uk kickstarter and have them at half of the total for a single kickstarter and combine the two? Then if only one gets backed you at least have half the money needed to fully fund the development.
Can't the Kickstarter ending time be extended a couple of weeks?
I think KevinP had a good suggestion to start a US Kickstarter. I know I hesitated (however slightly) before pledging for whatever reason. Is it possible to start two campaigns for the same product? Essentially have a US and UK Kickstarter for the same product with the same tiers, but two ways to get involved? In any case, if this doesn't happen and you go for it again I will back it again. Are you guys able to collect e-mail addresses of pledgers for a project before it gets funded? I would recommend collecting those emails so that you can send a heads up email if you give this another go.
I've just increased my pledge. As a second degree black-belt in Uechi-ryu and a Kinect owner I'm very interested in how this game will work. I am also really surprised there are only 517 backers on this. You look to have put a lot of work into this already and the campaign seems to have been really well done.
Oh and if William Hartman is still around, I believe the plan is that there are going to be downloadable packs for this to and allow you to customize a bit, developing your own style of play. They could add and Okinawan Karate pack at some point. They most likely will have some of the supposed influences and similar styles within the various Kung Fu styles as well.
Going well!! 25000 extra in the past 24 hours or so! I'm still hoping for a miracle!
C'mon people. To me this looks like the first realistic fighting game I've EVER seen. This should be made!
Pity that there is no Linux version.. would have pledged much more if there'd be!
What the hell is wrong with people? This looks to be one of the best fighting games to come out of kickstarter. I am trying to drum up support but out of the 30 or so people I work with only one plays video games. Dammit I want this one to fund so much. I'd do it myself if I didn't have two house payments already.
If this doesn't make it, I hope you guys will restart at some point. If you do restart, take a look at what some other kickstarters have done (like Star Citizen, or Skyjacker), these games offered a means to pledge outside of Kickstarter. I think this would be important because you would be able to use the money you get from the pledges right away and not be contingent on the kickstarter succeeding first. It is true that the people pledging would be accepting more risk, but maybe it might help alleviate some of the problems you have mentioned.
If you guys restart, I'd suggest launching it via the US kickstarter. Reach out to the guys in Stainless Games and negotiate the right to use their existing US Vehicle to launch a US Kickstarter.
I hope you guys would redo this kickstarter in the future. But I agree with Mark, I was a little reluctant because of the pound, while a direct exchange from US$ to pound might not seem that big, it is quite a different when exchanged to other currencies (in my case a 15pound pledge is US$24.5)
To be honest, I ALMOST didn't back the project as soon as I see the kinect, however being a rabid martial-art fan I kept on watching and pitched in after I found it out the project is NOT motion control exclusive.
Love the game looks so far, I think it deserves to be made, and if you restart the project, I would gladly pitch in again.
A couple of suggestions:
Make a higher digital only rewards tier, I will up my pledge right after posting this message, but anything after 20pounds includes physical rewards
I understand that the Hollywood background opens up the possibilities of different scenarios & settings, but I couldn't help feeling that the game would've been much better if it was set in a specific time and story instead of jumping between movies and auditions.
Bottomline.. I want to be a Kung Fu Master! (Not Superstar nor stuntman :D ... Van Damme anyone?)
So I was going to hold off on backing this project, not because it didn't look incredibly awesome but because I don't think it will reach its goal... If you are like me and were holding off, I recommend you pledge even if you don't think it will do anything, because it will!
The game designers can show the progress of their kickstarter campaign in other material, or to investors and there are a few other ways to capitalise on the perceived money raised.
Not only that it's sending a message to the game designers and community that this is a game / design we would like to see and we are pledging our support.
Yes the campaign could have some refinement ie: More external marketing / time, change to US dollars (not sure why but this comes up frequently - people give less money and less total number of backers to projects in pounds).
In light of the recent update, I'll have to step up my promoting some more, I'd really like to see this game made. And I'll be damned if it fails due to lack of effort.
@Kenok, you are right, unfortunately it is a bit of a cultural thing as well in that the there is a very small culture of backing startups in Europe
Hi everyone, just a quick message to say, apologies for being less active here than I would have liked, in the past couple of days. It's been quite busy with things like the AMA (check it out here if you haven't yet: http://redd.it/13w6oi there were a lot of great questions asked) and also some emergency traveling that came up (life has a tendency to catch up with you at interesting times). Just wanted to say I am on the ball again so let me know if there's questions and I'll also be sending out an update soon.
I am really hoping for this to come through. I've had a kinect since it came out and have been disappointed in the vast majority of games for it.
I hope if this makes it, then they can make a sequel and do an okinawan karate version! (preferably Uechi-ryu)
...And that a pound is significantly more than a dollar in exchange rate. It probably scares people off.
The main issue with the american side of the backers is that in order for them to fund a UK based kickstarter they need to re-enter their full credit-card credentials every time. Apparently this is a known bug, i didn't even know there was a difference.
it seems when games are in pounds instead of US currency they do worse? just an observation.
Just joined as a backer, im really surprised at the low number of pledges.
You guys have one of the best videos I've seen thus far on kickstarter...
Might I suggest you setup a paypal account and add it to your site if you dont reach the goal.
Best of luck
Just joined as a backer, I hope against rational statistics that this will be funded!
Maybe, if you look at Kostas earlier comments it's obvious how much passion there is, but as for industry involvement, dunno, hard to tell. Have to bet on this kickstarter to succeed now though, even if statistics speaks against it.
if this game fails its kick starter will it still come out in some form in the future? it looks very enjoyable.
Mmnh, this site does not allow you to edit posts, odd, still need to get used to the site (first-time backer). Earlier, further down the comments the suggestion was made that you should at least add a small explanation either in the text, FAQ or both for the use of kinect on a PC. I own a kinect and I didn't realize I could use it for the PC until I read the comments. Perhaps even add a link to the FAQ where you can find the drivers, I think this would attract more people form the console side(since those interested will already have kinect).
O, and expect a mail about my escapades for the competition soon.
Just my curious nature, but what are the plans if by any miracle the project is grossly overfunded?
This may boost the backing when you come close to your goal.
I know it's just a little thing but I love the part at 02:36 in the new video where you're hanging on to the ledge to hide behind the enemy then pull him down. :D
One reason is because that's exactly one of the things I wanted to see in a Kinect Splinter Cell game! (In fact it even looked eerily similar to my first thought about a Splinter Cell Kinect game because my first thought was imagining a Kinect (actually "Natal" at the time as I've imagined it ever since back then, lol!) version of the part in Splinter Cell 3 when you're hanging off the edge of the lighthouse walkway with the thunder and lightning in the background and you pull the guard over the ledge as he walks around to your position and I imagined using Kinect to actually hold onto the ledge with one hand while reaching out with the other to grab the guard then pull him down and over the ledge just like you did in the video!) So when they announced that the new Splinter Cell is "Better With Kinect" I was a bit disappointed when they revealed it was just voice commands. :( (Unless they reveal more Kinect features later that they haven't mentioned yet.) I mean who honestly hasn't wanted to do stuff like that in games? (I'm looking at you Kinect haters who now say "I just want to push buttons not flail around" but I bet you dreamed of being able to do stuff like in this video and the best Kinect games before it became "cool" to hate Kinect". :p )
Seriously? 21,000 likes on the main site and 388 backers? lolwut?
10 Big Brit Pounds people, all those Likers do that and BAM, funded.
I've been scratching my head over this for a while, and since your previous approach has not worked, maybe you should try explaining in detail what exactly the origins part of the game will contain, and why exactly any potential backers should go to great lengths to set up motion control for it. Don't focus on alternative controls, focus on the motion control. I honestly doubt that a lot of action gamers care enough about realistical martial arts to want to pick up this game to play with a traditional control method.
But please, update about the origin part, and post it on the main page under the video.
Well, nostalgia is a tricky coin, and I guess that is why kickstarter is a good for some projects and bad for others. I've seen a lot of kickstarters in the under 100 000 range succeed, despite slow starts. Mostly this is because they need less people to gain momentum, and lower pledge levels. Kickstarters of over 100 000 need backers willing to go in big to gain the necessary initial momentum, because people coming in later need that extra incentive to join. For people that have never been on kickstarter, they might not know how it works, and for people experieced with kickstarter, it might be because they don't want to be mailbombed with status updates, or something. This might be obvious, but I dunno.
I also think a major problem might lie just in those pledge tiers. As is, the current perception is that the £15 tier does not get you a full game, and that, in fact, £40 and over is the only one that does. The current trend with action games is that well, they are fairly short, and if the main game is only 5-8 hours, how long will Origin be? That, then added to the expensive and unusual combination of pc+kinect for optimal experience, is probably the main turnoff.
Oh well, just so you know, I've been pretty enthusiastic about this since day 1, but i just can't seem to get out of my usual analysis/reviewing mode, so i might be harsh, sorry about that.
(I do not work as a reviewer, though i permanently think like one, which makes it hard to convince people to go watch movies.)
@Sleeperwaking: these are not off the shelf outfits these are tailor made ones with ridiculous amount of customization so I am pretty sure you would be ok. We've spend tons of time looking for partners for all of our physical rewards that would meet our super high standards.
@KevinP: indeed, timing has been another issue. We have been evaluating and are constantly evaluating alternative funding avenues. However the problem is that we have taken a huge hit to get where we are now (and let's leave it at that as it is a thing that is fairly sensitive to discuss publicly) so unfortunately I am not sure how much longer we can last in this mode. Like I said before though, we will hang in there as much as we physically can, so your suggestions and advice are always welcome and useful.
Ok, I keep coming back to look at the Guardian reward (because it sounds super shiny). Is it an off the shelf fit, or can I get a version that will be long enough for my spider-like arms and legs? I still visit the page every day or two expecting the pledges have leapt up massively, I really hope that the AMA does the trick for you.
@ Kostas, I agree that Kickstarter, especially the gaming side primarily earns revenue through nostalgia rather than innovation. In your particular case, I think it also is a matter of unfortunate timing in that
Your kickstarter overlapped with some fairly heavy hitters capturing kickstarter revenue streams (Eternity / Star Citizen) with the tail overlapping with black friday and potential Christmas Spend. I do wish you the very best of luck
Other options for you to consider would be doing a revenue share rather than a kickstarter i.e. joining something like WMD (Ian Bell's World's of Mass Development) and similar revenue share based platforms. This way, your backers have some chance of earning their money back.
Sorry for the long silence everyone, been quite busy with putting together the next major video update (which should be launching within the next few hours) and family emergencies that have come up. Super quick responses to some comments below:
@Dustin: Thank you very much for the support and encouragement. For as long as there's fuel in our physical, mental and financial tanks we will keep pushing for this project as we love it more than you can imagine. Also if you think your comment is long you obviously haven't seen some of mine ;)
@Telefax: As always you're right on the money. Apparently we did massively overestimate how much innovation is a motivator for people backing games projects on Kickstarter. Turns out it's nowhere near as powerful as nostalgia. Now add to that the lack of press coverage, the fact that Origin is a PC only title and PC + Kinect is fairly unusual and you get to where we are now. I guess some counter arguments would be
a) you don't *have* to support just the PC version of the game - If you really want the game for console you can back at the ADEPT level and just be a little bit more patient
b) there's nothing wrong with backing a project that's not necessarily going to meet its goal. I've got a few of those in my backing history and I am actually really proud of them. And if you think backing a project that fails to meet its goal is a downer, try working on one for a year and a half, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and spending all your savings on it only to witness its anti climatic ending on Kickstarter. So while we're not expecting that level of commitment and determination from our backers we do hope that they will back us because they like the project not because of our chances to win or lose. And like I said before, sending a message out that this game is wanted is as important as this game meeting its goal.
@JEDII: Thanks for the excellent ongoing suggestions, both here and in private. We are actually investigating a lot of what you've recommended us and we'll be looking to act on what we can.
@Hideo: Glad you like the graphics, although I can't re-iterate enough how early this is for us development wise (people tend to forget, I've read countless times comments like "looks like a finished game, why do they need the money"). It's NOT a finished game and it can only get better from here (with your help). Much much better.
Wow, this is such a cool game idea back when kinect came out i looked into the excercises for 360 with kinect hoping to find something like this to learn some martial arts, think i did find one as close as possible at the time which wasnt much but only had one martial art and didnt like the reviews for it.
I love the idea of learning martial arts from a video game off kinect always been interested in martial arts and want to learn some, dvd's dont cut it since you dont get feed back on what you are doing wrong, Before someone flames me about taking classes! Classes i know a tai chi class isnt taught anywhere nearby would take 2 hour round trip just to go to an area i know teaches it.
I love this concept so much so many different styles are also in the game so i can experiment and find styles that i enjoy and learn those.
Please if you guys dont get enough backers Consider relaunching if possible (I saw one project relaunch and succeed) If not possible just dont give up on it id LOVE to see this game in my gaming collection.
Sorry for the long comment The vidoes are still fresh in my mind and they just made me so anxious to play it lol Dont give up
Yes, that is true. There is still the problem of emotional investment, though, and seeing a project you backed fail can be a real downer.
Why is it that people think that they have to back a winner?
In my opinion you back a project because you want what they offer to be made, regardless of the chance of succesful backing. There is literally no risk of backing a project which does not achieve its minimum funding(aside from it's placement in your history).
22cans already has 5k+ backers. A shout out from them could make for an exciting last week. A follow-up from Gamespot couldn't hurt and there has to be a better way to reach the 21k fans on Facebook (That's more than seven times the fans at Replay Games). The page was huge through October and now activity seems to have died down.
You said there's almost 5k people following this campaign? If they buy out the Adept tier, we're funded. Here's hoping for an exciting underdog story.
I can understand that, Its really unfortunate, hopefully you guys are able to recover and then someday create this game or a game similar to this. I think its an awesome idea. Good luck in the future. hopefully you can come back to this project someday!
Excellent analysis by Telefax. This is the type of game that would make me buy a console.
Although I disagree on the graphics, they look fine to me.
Also, it would be cool to have a hard mode, where the game plays be as real as possible (eg: multiple opponents go against you at the same time; opponents continue to attack instead of giving time to think and do something).
Yes, it is. It is an awesome project.
I've been on kickstarter ever since around april, and I've noticed quite a few trends about kickstarter, as well as read everything basically there is to know about running a successful one, and I'm sad to say that this project probably wont make it. There are a few reasons for this.
There is a lot of emotional investment in backing a kickstarter, you do NOT want to see a backed project fail, if it does, it kinda sits there in your project history like a sore spot, and everyone likes to back a winner. I don't really know where he got it from, but corey cole of the hero U kickstarter said that he had statistics of that 90% of all kickstarters that recieve 30% of their funding goal succeed. You have to reach a certain point for people to feel comfortable calling out to friends etc, for a kickstarter, which is a monetary investment after all. People like to back a winner.
A large part of what makes a kickstarter reach those 30% in the first place is nostalgia. That also means personal fans, people who are following you personally, knows of the project, might check your website, newsletters, you name it. Offering a completely new thing does not tug the heartstrings of nostalgia. Nostalgic people generally means bigger pledges, and thus a much larger initial surge.
If you are relatively unknown in the popular gaming media people are not as likely to invest in a project. There are for instance some totally amazing looking games being kickstarted right now that might not meet their goal (this being one of them), primarily because people do not want to invest in people without a solid track record as a studio (most of the reason for double fine and obsidians success really), and media attention is always a double edged sword.
A lot of projects that fail or are guaranteed to fail have boring, couch discussion videos, or projects that are just wishful thinking. This project does NOT have these problems, it actually has the best made project video I've seen. Look to shaker or the recent thorvalla for information on how not to do a video.
(this segment was added for completion really)
This project likely wont make it. The primary reason why? It isnt primarily for console. Nearly 100% of the draw for this game is the motion control. This might sound funny, motion control has been slammed over the last few years, nothing noteworthy has come out for the kinect that would attract gamers to it. Ever. This project does.
The counterpoint to this is that there is almost no way I would try to buy/back this if it was only for traditional controls/touch interface. It's a neat concept, but i don't really like action games, and the learning/using martial arts thing was the entire draw for me, and i dont know of anyone who would attach a kinect to a pc.
My best regards to the team, and my hope for the future is that you try to go and talk to microsoft, and see if you could get them to publish the game. I guess you already have tried, but since there might be a new console generaton coming out soon, this game could be a system-seller (if the graphics were turned up a notch). I'm certain it would do well in the 10-25 male demographic. And yes, all of that range.
It is, however not perfect on kickstarter, but I feel confident in your ability to make the game.
Where is the love for this game?? This is really innovative - only 370 backers!
@Dennis: So this probably isn't what you want to hear but we might as well be completely open and honest here as we don't want people to have the wrong expectations. Most of us have been doing this for over a year. The people on the team who haven't kept their dayjobs whilst doing this (that includes myself and a few others), have now gone through all their savings and as we don't have an alternative source of income this means we are now what they call "broke" :) So, as much as it pains me to say this, we basically can't continue working on this (not full time anyway). So we'll have to start looking for sources of income and hope we can come back to the project at a later date. I understand this might be disappointing but take the disappointment you feel, multiply it by some huge value and then you'll probably get an idea of how we feel.
@Telefax: I am glad you like the new updates. We are committed to working on and posting new content until the campaign ends. We don't care what happens, we like to see things through no matter what. So keep checking, there's more nice stuff to come.
@Mike and Duane: Yeah we hate how some of these rewards ended up being a bit pricier than we would have liked for people outside the UK. We did our best to price things fairly and we also wanted to include physical rewards at low level tiers (physical rewards are costly for Kickstarter project owners which is why in most Kickstarters you won't see them until you start looking at the 100USD + reward tiers). The £40/$75 reward tier is effectively a Limited Collectors Edition of the game with things like two physical games, poster, soundtrack, artbook, beta access. So while 75$ is not "impulse purchase" territory I still think it's pretty good value for money.