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A Western tabletop adventure of legendary proportions for 2-6 players in 90 minutes or less.
A Western tabletop adventure of legendary proportions for 2-6 players in 90 minutes or less.
6,721 backers pledged $568,572 to help bring this project to life.

A Character Update and First Look at Unlocked Minis!

Posted by Kolossal Games (Creator)
49 likes

Lot's to share today, but first! A message from our CEO:

Hello again, backers!

When we set out to make Western Legends, we chose characters who had a great impact on history. Some of these characters were more known than others, but all lived incredible lives. As inclusion is important to how we make our games, we wanted to include characters like Crazy Horse and Geronimo for their incredible struggle and courage. We didn’t want to gloss over or tiptoe around this part of the subject matter for the game, nor did we want to share their stories in a confrontational manner.

Last week we had some very thoughtful feedback about these character choices and, out of respect, we have decided to replace Geronimo and Crazy Horse from the game. Through research and consideration, we will be adding two more incredible Native American characters in their stead. We share those changes with you today.

Without further ado, we give you Bloody Knife and Y.B. Rowdy.

Bloody Knife was born to a Hunkpapa Sioux father and an Arikara mother and was abused and discriminated against by the other Sioux in his village because of this background. When Bloody Knife was a teenager, he left his village with his mother to live with the Arikara tribe. He later found employment as a courier and hunter for the American Fur Company and then served under Alfred Sully before scouting for and befriending George Custer, who arranged to pay him significantly more than other scouts of the time (nearly 500% the average scout wage!). He died during the Battle of the Little Bighorn.

An Indian Wars Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient, Rowdy was born a Yuma Arizona tribesman, and he served as an Army Sergeant Scout in Company A, US Cavalry. During engagements with hostile Apache Indians, Sergeant Rowdy showed continuing courage in locating the enemy and relaying the information to his command. Rowdy was killed three years later in a saloon and was buried in Santa Fe National Cemetery with full military honors.

Again, we want to stress that our original choices for Native Americans were done with respect and with that same respect in mind it is why we share this change with all of you today. With regard to the impact on the game itself, we have kept the ability originally on one character and implemented another we had approved in development, but that was not used.

Thank You,
Kira Peavley
CEO

A Newly Unlocked Stretch Goal!

We have unlocked yet another goal! Additionally, We have new images to share of our sculpts. 

 

Another stretch goal has fallen! Having passed $385k, every copy of Western Legends will include 22mm dice. This brings the total number of unlocked stretch goals to a whoppin' 23! Thank you all for your continued support.

A Look at More Minis!

We come to you today with a first look at the miniatures that have been unlocked, but not yet seen. So without further ado, let's just dive right in. First up, the Sheriff!

The Sheriff
The Sheriff

Here is a look at the Bandit sculpts that have been unlocked so far.

The Robber
The Robber

 

The Desperado
The Desperado

 

 Player minis that have been added to the Fistful of Extras expansion:

The Cowboy
The Cowboy

 

 

The Gentleman
The Gentleman

 

The Fugitive
The Fugitive

 

Character-Specific Minis!

Wyatt Earp
Wyatt Earp

 

Calamity Jane
Calamity Jane

 

Jesse James
Jesse James

Western Legends Live Stream!

We will be streaming gameplay of Western Legends on Thursday, January 25, at 12:30pm EST. The Kolossal team will be playing the game and taking your questions through chat. If you've not already done so, head to the campaign page and click the green "Subscribe" button to get notified when we go live. We can't wait to chat will all of you!

New BGG Images and Forums

We've entered the final week of the campaign, and it is more important than ever that we keep eyes on the project. Head over to BGG add some thumbs and comments to these images and help keep Western Legends on the BGG Hotness!

Images:

Forums:

If you've not already done so, SUBSCRIBE to Western Legends on BGG.

 

Patrick Drohan, MAJBrown22, and 47 more people like this update.

Comments

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    1. Gabriele on

      Very sad .... but I see the point.

      @Odd-Gunnar Wikmark thumb up!

    2. Groo the mendicant on

      Matt believe what you want. But its not welcome on a game forum.

    3. David Spangler on

      By the way, the minis look great! Well done to all involved.

    4. David Spangler on

      I'm one of those disappointed not to have Geronimo and Crazy Horse in the game, mainly because I have such respect for them. At the same time, I felt having them rob banks, etc. wasn't in keeping with their character or reputations. For that matter, I couldn't see either one becoming a "Marshall." It made me feel uneasy, and I am not a Native American. so I applaud your decision to replace them. Thank you for the thoughtful and sensitive explanation. I'm not so sure, though, that I like the characters who have replaced them, but that's personal opinion.

      I'm not sure, but do you have Bat Masterson in the game? He would count as a "Western Legend."

    5. Vault-Tec-Harry on

      Good choice to replace 2 Indians. I like the new characters.

    6. Missing avatar

      Matt on

      @Groo First, try to stop making baseless assumptions about the level of self-awareness and complexity of opinion others have cultivated, and definitely feel free not to share those assumptions with others. Second, if you don't feel any need to be vigilant about the direction of U.S./global political winds right now, then you're either highly uninformed or indefensibly apathetic. I hope you have a more considered and informed life going forward. Otherwise, all that ignorance and apathy will hurt others.

    7. Gerwaldan on

      @Skyknight : I see your latest comment as a wise conclusion and Kolossal did the best they could. Thank you both for your cleverness and ... let's play !

    8. Skyknight on

      Can’t imagine living and being offended by everything to include such minor details.

    9. Skyknight on

      My wife and I are card carrying Cree and Potawatomi. The inclusion of historical Native Americans in the game was perfectly acceptable. I understand Wyatt Earp likely wouldn’t have committed crimes either, but to play him as such is interesting. Still backing and not that upset about it either way....just think the folks who asked for this should really take time to consider if everything really has to be offensive all the time.

    10. Tuxedomouse
      Superbacker
      on

      But the game is called Western LEGENDS. are these two new characters legends? I'm not sure. I've personally never heard of them...

    11. Joe Fourhman on

      Kolossal, I'm 100% behind your rationale on this and this pushed me over the fence to backing. Thanks for your transparency, honesty and obviously deep thought on the matter.

    12. Jordan
      Superbacker
      on

      I'm a bit disappointed that those two have been taken out of the game, but after reading the full explanation, I completely understand the decision.

    13. Tserofal
      Superbacker
      on

      @ Jason. Hey there... I truly am posting this question with utmost respect and am not looking to spark any flames, but I truly am confused as to what you mean by the cultural significance of their actions. I really don't understand. They removed and replaced two Native American characters with basically the same. There is historical difference, but I see this as an homage, and since we can play any of the characters either good, or bad and we do not need to keep them in their true historical roles, does it really matter? Again, I truly am asking so as I can understand. thx.

    14. Kolossal Games 10-time creator on

      Good morning, everyone! Wanted to reply very to the many comments that came through overnight:

      1. We have done diligent research with a trademark attorney and there will be no further issues with the other characters we have chosen.

      2. This decision is one of respect, not obligation, nor a knee jerk response to complaints from a vocal minority. I took the time to share the details, but it feels as if those were not read or considered from some of the comments. This was not an easy decision, but we feel it was the right one.

      3. The game has the same amount of content as it did before. There are still Native American characters. Thankfully Roland was able to make time for the art, in spite of having a full schedule on other great games. There is not less content. This changes is entirely with the name and use of two individuals. It has the same material and play value as it did before.

    15. Jason Miller
      Superbacker
      on

      Also, there's an AWFUL lot of wypeepo in these comments complaining about minority issues.

    16. Jason Miller
      Superbacker
      on

      Wait. A company with a lot to lose actually taking a step back to understand the cultural significance of their actions?

      Consider me a backer for life.

    17. Tserofal
      Superbacker
      on

      I agree entirely with the majority of the posts here. I especially tend to lean with Odd-Gunnar and feel that simply representing these characters in this game felt much more like an homage than an insult. I do applaud Kolossal for the decision to appease the families, but do find it a shame. As previously stated, having those names associated to a board game that might be the first time younger kids would even hear of many of these characters and spark further research. It simply keeps the names alive and relevant. Boardgames are great exposure, and catalysts for discussion. Heck.... I personally would love the chance to be immortalized in any medium regardless of the portrayal. Again though, I still love the prospect of the game, and do not harbor any resentment or hurt feelings due to this decision. In fact, since it was at the families' behest, this was in fact absolutely the right thing to do.

    18. Philip N. Mazzone on

      Very dissapointed, but not in the least surprised. Seems to be a trend these days where the outcries of a very small select few outweigh the masses.

      When will people realize that if you want to honor and respect the life of someone gone, that is more powerful to bring them forward, to discuss, and to make known their history so others can read and learn.....rather than to remove and silence them completely as if they never exsisted ?

      These characters were being cast as they truly were. They were not being used in some alternate history line where they were running around with machine guns or something. For a game that’s supposed to be historically accurate and staying true to real people, I dont understand this in the slightest. Dissapointed !!!!!!!

    19. Lee Lowe on

      I understand the decision, what would be great is an expansion which enables the world to grow into Indian territory where these two legendary men and others could be used appropriately.

      The new expansion map could have objectives and interactions Native American specific. Attacking wagon trains, cavalry patrols, buying guns, medicine man, trade in furs ect ect.

    20. Kalman Perenyi
      Superbacker
      on

      Hello! When I read this update, my first thought was very similar to that of others. I am from Hungary, so I am not too close to USA's past, although we had 2 years of American History (and Literature) classes in highschool tought by american teachers (in english language), so I know SOME of the history. Ever since I read about it (and watched tons of movies and documentaries) I was always really, really sad whenever I thought about the native american genocide, especially them being a culture so close to nature. Anyway when I read about this change I also assumed the worst, and came here only to check the comments to decide if I want to stay in this project or leave. Your detailed explanation below fortunately gave me enough reason to stay, although it made me that much more curious about the reasonings of those said relatives: why would it be disrespectful toward Geronimo to include him in this game?
      Anyway, the reason I wanted to post a comment: I would strongly encourage you (and hopefully other backers will agree) to have an extra section in the rulebook (even if it makes it a few pages longer), giving historical background info on certain characters you contemplated to including in the game but in the end did not (maybe there are more than these two), maybe even mentioning why they have not been selected as a character, so that you avoid any future controversy by being upfront and transparent about it right from the start - while also being educative and raising awareness to these issues, and shedding some (clearly required) extra light on some aspects of these events and characters which are not well known to most... If you make a game with real historical figures, you could throw in some educational stuffs as well after all :)

    21. Odd-Gunnar Wikmark on

      @Allaert: I believe the Mesa space is the rock formation on the middle of the board. This was Geronimos special ability. Others have problems/can´t move there.

      Bethlemos: Agreed. Using Sitting Bull and Cochise for instance., would have been far better.

    22. Bethlemos on

      Well, if the decision to replace those two characters is final, I want to argue that Bloody Knife and Rowdy don't seem to be an adequate replacement as their stories differ a lot from the originally intended characters...
      The problem is that no one is really happy with this solution.

    23. Odd-Gunnar Wikmark on

      As many others, I am also disappointed by the removal of two signature characters from the wild west. I read the explanation and understand that you have been contacted directly by relatives of the two, and that tipped the scale for you. I would argue, you do them a disservice. If this was a history book, I could understand, but it is a game - a sandbox game even. By following your line of thought here, any American Indian being portrayed in a game would have to go. Let me say this, as someone who is also indigenous (albeit not to America), the stigma of oppression does not go away by silence. It is by talking about and breaking down barriers that you diminish the wounds from the past. What is best, not mentioning Crazy Horse and avoiding every form of portraying him, or having people from around the world playing the game, reading the historical card and history about him and learning? I understand you want to be respectful, but you are missing the mark by this action and in fact achieve the opposite of your intention, silencing the historical echo of Crazy Horse and Geronimo . I am sorry to see that.

    24. Henk Allaert on

      I read on the card of Bloody knife the words "mesa space". Can someone tell me what that means ? Even google Translate doesn't offer me a solution here. Thanks !

    25. Graham Murphy on

      I see his happening everywhere in life at the moment. 99.99% of the backers loves having them characters but it takes just one person whinging and people bend over backwards to try accommodate these leftie do gooders.... It's history it's happened get over it.. Can you imagine if every ww2 game came out and us brits went NOPE NO GERMANS THEY WERE MEAN TO USE... People would tell us to go for a running jump and rightly so.....

    26. Brad on

      If anything, I think the real question should be... How did you guys get the art made for these characters so quickly? I could be wrong but I thought the artist had already moved on to other projects?

      I like the changes btw! Are these new characters or would they have been later releases in the campaign anyway? If you just replaced two characters with two new ones I don't really see the problem... So long as we will not be losing out on total number of characters.

      Keep up the great work Kolossal! I can't wait to get my copy of this game!

    27. Margareth S
      Superbacker
      on

      Thank you so much for being respectful.

    28. Mel On KS
      Superbacker
      on

      Perhaps permission, out of respect, should have been sought first with the descendants of the native Indian characters. I am not native American Indian, but we use to call our cousin (deceasd many years now) "Geronimo". Wild boy and definitely not one to mess with in a fight nor when it came to hunting. Suited the nickname tenfold.

      I am disappointed too - as never heard od Scary Crow and who is the other one?

    29. Missing avatar

      John Fraser
      Superbacker
      on

      Disappointed but not at all surprised.

    30. Missing avatar

      AbHel on

      @Kolossal Thank you for your efforts to this point and it must be disappointing on your end to make this change so late in the campaign. Not an easy call.

      That said, is this switching out of Geronimo and CH the first of two dominoes that are going to fall regarding named characters in this game? For example, is Jesse James’ estate now going to come knocking and demand removal from this game unless they get compensated for use of Jesse’s likeness? Are there other characters that Kolossal is going to cave on? That potential, and Kolossal now having a track record of switching characters under family request/receipt of a cease and desist letter is what concerns me about this evening’s developments and the future of this game moving forward.

      If this happens again, post KS-close, what is the equitable solution for your backers?

      Thank you again.

    31. Groo the mendicant on

      Matt. It sad that you can't see anything except through your political ideologies. Hope you have a good life, all that anger will hurt you.

    32. Rick Mann
      Superbacker
      on

      I would rather the natives hadn't changed. Most have never heard of the replacements and as such aren't going to want to be that player. It's just a game, it doesn't really matter one way or the other I guess, but somehow I think it will be slightly less enjoyable painting a mini of who-was-that-again vs Crazy Horse !

    33. Missing avatar

      Matt on

      @Tuxedomouse, I'm truly sorry you can't handle difficult and nuanced topics. In fact, the apparent divisiveness (for some) of the decision to include Geronimo/Crazy Horse gave rise to this announcement, which was vague and therefore bred further divisive speculation. It's perfectly reasonable to infer that when two well-known Native American resistance fighters are removed in favor of two who fought on behalf of the U.S. army's anti-Indian genocide—and no other explanation is provided other than some people were offended—that the offense would come from an ultranationalist rightwing position. Deal with it.

    34. Bob on

      Please record the Live Stream so folks that work during this period can also enjoy it. 👍

    35. Kolossal Games 10-time creator on

      Quick aside: I am heading to bed to spend some time with my very patient wife. I will happily reply to any more comments and/or questions in the morning. Thank you all for your time.

      Thanks,

      Travis R. Chance

    36. Kolossal Games 10-time creator on

      Thanks, Aaron! We have some great goals ahead of us in the final 48 hour push! The game is the same in content; two characters have been changed and respectfully so. The game is not worse, less, or otherwise. It remains what it was the two amendments to historical representation.

    37. WYLDGaming (Aaron) on

      I understand and support your decision and still trust this to be a phenomenal game, even if all historical figures had to be stripped out for some reason and replaced with generic ones. I'm a big history buff, but I also know a great game when I see it, and I don't expect anything but the best from you guys. Thanks for all of the extra things you have thrown in during this campaign. Can't wait to play (and review) it!

    38. Tuxedomouse
      Superbacker
      on

      @matt Stop being so divisive and making this about politics. For once I think we can all be glad that politics doesn't belong in this particular argument.

    39. Brian Lombard on

      On another note.....I love the sculpts!! Can't wait to get them on the table.

    40. Kolossal Games 10-time creator on

      @Geoffrey, no no. I appreciate the comment. It was not easy to put this into words.

    41. Missing avatar

      Geoffrey Heffernan on

      @Kolossal, was not not accusing you of intentional deception, you made a controversial announcement that could have been communicated a bit better. No big deal, especially after you clarified.

    42. Kolossal Games 10-time creator on

      @Matt, thanks for the words. Genuinely.

      @Geoffrey Heffernan there was no intention of deception. Frankly, we did not know how backers would respond. My assumption, having run 16 campaigns now, was that some would be upset, others would be supportive, but this is to state the obvious. It is the degree to which of those two binary factors was what I did not know.

      If our OP was vague, I do apologize. I am happy to clarify here and now as needed.

    43. Ron Gilbert on

      How many Native Americans did you talk to? There are always going to be a few people that don't like anything. Heck, I'm sure there are some descendants of other characters in the game that wouldn't want them included in the game either. Maybe we should just have cowboy Joe and cowgirl Jane and call it a day... And as others have said Crazy Horse didn't have any offspring that lived long enough to have children (his one daughter died at age 2).

    44. Missing avatar

      Matt on

      @Kolossal, I was anticipating a cause of rightwing dogma which could conceivably breed criticism about including characters who stand in opposition to a rightwing nationalist agenda, not "liberal dogma." In any case, as you can see from my second comment which came after your more detailed explanation, I acknowledged that I had not been aware that the wishes of family members of Geronimo and/or Crazy Horse were the impetus for the decision. I appreciate the more detailed explanation and at this point my only feedback is to maybe include that in an initial announcement.

    45. Missing avatar

      Geoffrey Heffernan on

      If the decedents complained fair enough, but you should have just said so in the update rather than being so vague.

      This is why a lot of designers stick to generic heroes/villains or "inspired by" names rather than real historical figures.

    46. Groo the mendicant on

      @Matt. I see that. Since we all type at different rates our replies get out of place, however I warn you to stop making political statements. Not everything in live is a right or left wing conspiracy. You will find life a lot more happy when you stop finding political fault in it. There enough shenanigans in DC already without having to read it about it on a game comment forum.

    47. Kolossal Games 10-time creator on

      Matt, this has nothing at all to do with cowing to the whims of liberal dogma or otherwise. It is very difficult for many to imagine from the cultural perspective of people such as Native Americans. We were politely asked to consider our decision from people with a cultural stake. This is anything but knee-jerk. We did extensive research before making any decisions. We engaged in dialogue. We made sure we were aware of our rights, as well as the family's, before making any decisions whatsoever.

      This was not an easy topic to tackle, even before this. Amending our decision was a necessary course of action. People are welcome to speculate on our motivations, but we only ask you to consider why, when this game is doing so well and we are a new company, would we invite potential controversy of this sort without due cause?

      We are deeply sorry to disappoint anyone, but this is a decision we felt was right for our game, our company, and the memory of the men in question. We do not expect every backer to understand or agree, but nonetheless we thank you for hearing why we made this choice. Sincerely. Your support throughout this campaign has been incredible. We hope that in spite of this situation, we can bring your friends and family fun in years to come with this game and many more.