by KING Art Games
Just wanted to tell you that I find your community approach great! Telling us upfront what you have in mind and what your design 'Leitlinien' (rules and corner stones) are. And btw, those Leitlinien are very smart, professional and go exactly in the direction of modern game design I like. Thumbs up! I'm looking very much forward to this game. All the best, Christian.
not sure about the controversy with pausing. the oldest RTS games that i know of that did multiplayer had host only pausing, and this sucked. they did this so that people couldn't throw a game by pausing and messing with everybody. some games got rid of pausing altogether, but that isn't the best idea. starcraft went with each player only getting 3 pauses to use in a game. of course all of this is with multiplayer in mind.
as for single player, pausing was very much desired with no real downside. total annihilation even allowed giving orders while paused which was nice as that means that you don't have to dumb the AI down or build in gaps in giving orders to keep it from being overpowered.
if you guys are going for the competitive style of play then you want to have pauses only there for occasional use, otherwise i don't see why you can't have giving orders while paused and allowing for a tougher AI.
Personally I hope you make units that are smarter than bags of rocks. If they are being shot at, maybe make them shoot back, or take cover. Or give us sliders to tell them when to run instead of them fighting to the death. Like Dark Reign from the 90s. I don't like most RTS because it's just a click fest. you want to stand out, make your units have at least as much intelligence and sense of self preservation as a gold fish.
I second ThomasN's idea for earning special cosmetic items for winning while handicapped. A way to visually show one's skill or achievements is always a huge incentive for me to keep playing and improving my skills.
..and also not by power-based unlocks depending on playtime. (see: rpg multiplayer mechanics in many games today)
Handicap system is great - hopefully it yields cosmetic things for the superior players and a way for them to flash them.
I really like that you try to balance multiplayer by skill and not by pay-to-win.
@brady: From a tech site it would be possible but its more a question of "politics". Sony won't allow crossplay with Microsoft. There might be crossplay between Windows PCs and the Xbox but that stuff changes all the time, so we're going to wait until a couple of months prior to the release to look into that.
I already feel that most games miss out to NOT YET have this The Handicap System.
I don't think that I have seen that yet anywhere else in a multiplayer game.
The Handicap System is a really cool idea!
The Handicap System is a realy cool idea! I dont think that I have seen that yet anywhere else in a multiplayer game.
Thanks to all backers for togehter reaching the Coop- Multiplayer stretchgoal.
I am more interested in Single Player, but playing the campaign along with my brother would be much fun. The Handycap System sounds good too. This may be - IMHO - a good way of matching players of different skill level togehter. My last Online Game I played very much was about ten years ago - World in Conflict - and there it was alway a bad experience when I cound'nt join the team of my friends or got my team stacked up with "noobs" as a punishment for a good team play.
Please make the Handicap options available in private games too, because I am very old now and no longer interested in playing with strangers ;)
I am not interested in multiplayer.
I think the handicap system is a very good system. It allows a good challenge for the more exprienced player. And will not demotivate a lesser player when getting destroyed every time, as he won’t be destroyed evey time in the first 5 minutes.
I wonder if it’s also possible to play for example co-op annihilation against 2 or more bots. So their is also a training possibility with an other player and test new tactics.
One concern i’d like to raise is what if the handicapped players falls really behind. Imagine if you say you can win with 50% less resources from points held, you’re playing well, then you lose a big battle, your opponent snowballs and you struggle to catch back up.
I think there should be an option for situations like this where mid game you can retract any handicaps you placed on yourself, however you no longer get a score bonus the handicap may have given. The other player should also get a score bonus for forcing their opponent to retract their handicap, showing that they are playing above their supposed rank. That way, the game stays interesting for both players, and both are appropriately rewarded/punished for how well they played.
i know we should be talking about the Handicap System but i would like to talk about the multiplayer modes the two usual ones are capture points and annihilation. i would love if there are more like king of the hill, capture points, one side defend and one attack in a time limit or even a counter attack mode. if you could work this into the multiplayer it would brake up the usual two option setup (really who plays capture points so you only play one game mode annihilation and that gets old)
Is there anyway one of the stretch goals would allow cross platform play? I know the game War Thunder does this
I like the handicap system idea, reminds me of the handicap system in rpg's, it can keep the gameplay longer fresh by allowing to level the (battle-)field and keep matches longer interesting, especially when down the road experienced players run out of players and still look for a hardcore challenge.
Now I basically don't care anymore since the handicap system is optional but I do think that it is a waste of time since I can guarantee very few people will use it on the ladder.
I think the handicap idea is great. It allows players of different levels to interact, and agree on their own handicaps.
You got my full support for the handicap system. Handicap options actually are a normal thing in rts games, but this time, you guys promise more than just "Income: 25/50/75%"-Options
I really like the general handicap idea. However, the reinforcement trade for XP idea leaves me skeptical. The great thing about the betting system is that terms and conditions are mutually agreed on beforehand by both players. There would have to be a gametype that explained either player could make the XP sacrifice for reinforcements that you, as a player, consciously choose to play.
First off, congrats on achieving the next stretching goal! Secondly, as a very experienced and proficient competitive RTS player I was really looking forward to knowing the details of the handicap system: when you first announced it I knew there was more behind it that you didn't want to spoil yet (else it would have been pure nonsense for competitive players to be "forced" to play with handicaps :D ). But now that you explained more or less how it could work, I am impressed: not only I like your idea but I truly believe it has the potential (if well designed and balanced out with the help of the communities that will grow around the game, both the competitive and the casual one) to guarantee a good longevity to your title and make it stand out compared to other RTS titles.
Looking forward to know more details about it in the future and to test the system out!
The handicap system sounds incredible! As someone who enjoys RTS games far more than the skill I have in playing them, I'm all about it.
As far as pauses, I remember old games only the host could pause it was annoying. Perhaps making it so it says your opponent wishes to pause the game? And then you can choose to allow or not.
I really like the handicap system, but calling reinforcements for xp during the match is a little bit wonky in my opinion. Maybe if you would include it as a part of the handicap thing it would make more sense. Risky, but worth trying!
Making the systems optional is a great idea. In regards to offering reinforcements for XP this reminds me of the SW Battlefront II battle point system. You earn points in each match to spend on better troops, vehicle reinforcements, and heroes. The downside is that it can help the winning team win more as points are earned for doing well. Creating an inverse of this system might help a lagging player catch up. Maybe the powers that be start sending them supply drops or supply lines. Taking it a step farther maybe allow the opposing player the ability to intercept these reinforcements giving them one more thing to worry about if they're winning. I'm really excited about Iron Harvest and appreciate you trying to bring the best game forward!
Sounds great, now I'm totally in for this feature (even though it might be hell developing it balanced). For the reinforcements: Please keep them optional aswell so they're only possible if all players agreed. Multiplayer is not just about the XP and long-terme progress for me, but about the direct competition match by match.
And, please: Make all this stuff clearly visible IG so you don't play (un)handicaped matches by accident.
For the last paragraph, take a look at World in Conflict, and see how they deal with reinforcements and support call-ins. It’s still on GOG, it may or may not be what you are looking for.
I don’t have an opinion yet on the handicap system, we have to wait and see if it works. Love the progress so far.
This is a fantastic way of doing the handicap system! I was one of the people who was against the handicap system even though i would have been the "inexperienced player" who would benefit from the system. I think you guys have come up with a great way to again not separate you community and keep things fair. My worry was this system would cheapen my victorys or rob victorys from good players but this bet system... 10/10 i am once again excited for multiplayer and yall have gotten my 100% confidence and faith in y'all as devs for this game. Please keep up the amazing work and cant wait to hop into this game
I really love the idea of the handicap system! It will keep the player base together and newcommers won't be detered by being beaten by more experienced players eight away when entering into PvP!
I'm so hyped for this game and so happy that the co-op campaign became a reality - I just need to convince my regular co-op partner to join me so we can cover the game on our YouTube channels!
Who do I write to ask for access to the demo build? I would like to show my viewers what you guys are cooking up! :)
Ich bin sehr gespannt wie das Handicap system umgesetzt wird und wie stark die Auswirkung Balance -technisch werden.
excellent that's what i was hoping for a self imposed handicap for a possible bonus if you win. Honestly I've seen high level players do that anyway out of boredom in some games (i recall husky star craft used to have a playlist of weird strategies he only used cause he was so much higher in skill then his opponent that using an optimal one would be boring). the xp costing call ins is also a cool idea. And yes if it doesn't work it can always be turned off either by player choice or removing from the system. This settled most of my concerns ty.
Oh but I would be careful with the reinforcements idea. I think it would be very disappointing for a player that feels happy because he is winning to suddenly be losing because the other player traded some XP.
I like it!
In my opinion, one of the best things in the game, is that everything is optional. The UI is going to be customisable, now optional handicap. Wow, that's really cool how much freedom we're going to have. Thank you! Make it happen!
I'm definitely interested in the handicap idea. It sounds really cool.
Yeah I think the handicap idea has potential and totally agree it's worth a try at the very least.
I also like the idea of the handicap system, especially with it being optional.
Really like the idea of 'handicaps' to expand the amount of players someone can interact with. As long as you're willing to tweak things based on well proposed feedback from experienced play testers then I'm happy.
Best of luck!
Personally, I love the handicap idea