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err, here goes the right link: http://forums.ltheory.com/viewtopic.php… #sorry
The forum mod who's been talking to Josh reports that Josh has said he's close to posting the update; he got unexpectedly busy recently and is finalising the update tonight. Still no word on whether he'll post here or just to the forums.
One of the forum mods is talking to Josh, trying to persuade him to make a post anywhere about what's going on: reading between the lines, it sounds like Josh has made real progress with LT, but until he clears up some technical forum issues he seems to be remaining quiet.
I'll keep you all updated if anything more happens.
Thx for letting us know Ian. I stopped checking the forums a while ago.
A couple of people on the forums have had a brief chat with Josh over IRC.
Apparently, Josh is still working hard, and is about to make a post.
As of now, we have no idea whether that will be on the forums, to us backers, or somewhere else.
I wonder if there's some way he can license some of the engine technology and code he's developed along the way to extend the income and keep the project going. That said, I've written off my $45 as a loss and a lesson after several years.
The problem here is lack of communication. Any backer can go to the bottom of the Campaign page and click "Report this Project" -- and on the next page select that the creator isn't communicating. There could be any number of reasons why he's behaving this way. Maybe he feels he can't communicate. But maybe Kickstarter can communicate with him, tell him it's ok to give even three sentence updates. If something is seriously that easy and he's not doing it, then there's seriously something wrong. He should just write something at least; no big production, forget about trying to wow anybody at this point. Something. Anything.
You need to just release what you've got. Clearly you've got something, even if *you* don't feel its ready. Let us judge and give feed back. That might keep you inspired to develop more. Besides, once you've released V1, you can start selling it to, target Steam Green Light for instance. Make some more money.
Still have great hope for LT! Josh, you really need to finish this game. Obviously you have the talent. Now you need the spine to live up to your promises. It will make the masses feel good but most of all you will feel good too!
@Carmine, the last update here was over a year ago. The last update on the forums was back in August. It's been over two years since we actually heard anything about the game: the few updates since them have only said Josh is working on it, no details, no updated estimate for launch or beta or anything else. Josh's mental breakdown seems to be back in full effect.
I would encourage everyone to report this project for post-funding issues, from the main campaign page (at the very bottom) - there's a 100-PAGE thread on the forums about us backers being unhappy that Josh won't/can't live up to his responsibilities, but maybe Kickstarter can remind him of his legal obligations to keep us informed.
Has there been any more updates recently? Kinda feeling left in the dark...
I have utterly lost confidence that Josh will ever deliver anything. I would push for a refund, but it hardly seems worth it for $20, so I'm just glad I didn't pledge higher.
This project enter in the amazing world of ==> VaporWare <===
Josh, just release what you have so far as an Alpha to all backers and keep on developing. Your videos so far have been amazing, and I understand that you've had some personal issues, but it's been too long.
Put something out there for your backers and keep on working on getting it to beta.
The no information at all on anything for several months. I was always positive with the hope for when done. But when you get no news at all then either he has been advised not to by a lawyer or doctor, or the project is indeed failed. If the project is failed then the honorable thing world be to release it to the mod community unfinished, would that be so bad ?
At this point he should release a limited game and keep making updates
I'm a little annoyed with this one. Crickets for a year, with nothing to show for the $187,865 that was pledged to this. Divide that up over almost five years, and it isn't much of a salary for a programmer, or even an entry level help desk technician. It's nearly unsustainable at this point, so dedicated work is going to cease soon if it hasn't already.
Hello all... soooo about that game.....
@Edward Erickson; by "he still updates" you mean "he hasn't been seen in nearly three months at all" and "his 'updates' consist of him telling us that he is working on LT but absolutely nothing at all about his progress or if/when we might ever expect a release, or even an update on Kickstarter".
Guys, he still updates just not here. Check out the forum.
August 12th, 2016
Yikes, a few things certainly need to be said:
1. I've not abandoned you all. You may not see me, but I am with you! By that, I mean, I'm in this office working on LT.
2. I sincerely apologize if anyone feels that they've gotten the middle finger from me. Not my intention, ever.
3. Didn't pull a fast one on you all -- I know I'm going to have to keep saying this until the substantial update that you're all waiting for (good lord, with the amount of tension that's going to be relieved, I should start a poll to vote on a name for it...it needs some kind of epic, cathartic name that will go down in LT history) -- but there's really no option for me other than to finish LT. Don't take that the wrong way...I want to finish LT, I need to finish LT because it means so much to me and, after all, if you give up on your dream, then what do you have left? For me it would be devastating. Not to mention the devastation of letting you all down, which I already feel quite sharply due to how far overdue the game is. But it would be unbearably sharp were I to simply call it quits. And of course, it would be downright stupid, considering how far we've come, how many hours, how much energy has been invested -- there's no turning back!! Sometimes I really do wonder how anyone can think that I would actually consider that :monkey:
So, yes, these threads I imagine will continue until I present the next installment of the 'State of the Limit Theory' address. But said address is getting closer each day. Sorry for the angst, I guess it's worse for the people who don't know the relative closeness :shifty:
I do hope that all is well with Josh. I would imagine that the guy has a tremendous amount of pressure on him. That being said it would be lovely to see an update sometime in the near future; this forum was one of my regular haunts....
Thanks, appreciate the sentiment. All is well, although it's been a bit busier than anticipated, but such is life. Recap of life in the past few months:
1. Dad sold house, had to pack up & move all my stuff
2. Femnode got a job in CA, took a trip out there to apartment hunt with her
3. Found and secured a new place to stay here (5 minutes away from the office!! LT Headquarters is just a super short drive away!)
4. Moved and unpacked all my stuff at said new place
But once more I seem to be in a stable life situation and am in the office every day cranking out the LT (and drawing up plans for how to repair the long-since-derailed hype train :ghost: )
I'm afraid, he may have hit the same wall as he did with LTSL - his Python business may still be too slow. If this is the case, he is probably back in his corner, thinking about what the hell to do now.
Thankfully not, so far LTEngine 2.0 (pff, I know, there's been a lotttt of refactoring over the years, but this is the first time I actually split the codebase) has been a joy to work in. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't anxious in the slightest about what kind of performance we'll see when I have all the logic running. But, that's kind of the nice upshot of having a hybrid engine -- if performance is problematic, you tell more of the code to come to the dark side...eh, the statically-compiled side. So far, though, all is well and only going to get better as I continue to improve the JIT engine to be able to handle harder cases (hence, be able to convert more of the code).
(Yes, this monkey is entirely aware that he did not give any specific details on the 'State of Limit Theory.' Don't read into it, because unless you read it in a positive way, you've read incorrectly :roll:)
PS ~ In case anyone considers me a lord/savior, which I hope is not the case, please cease said consideration...as we have all seen, I am, regrettably, quite mortal and flawed indeed :oops: However, this mortal still promises to bring you Limit Theory :thumbup: (remember my motto: "I'll ship it or I'll die trying!")
Link to original: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5356&start=15#p132283
Talvieno's note: I feel like it's important to post this here, given how quiet Josh has been lately, so that no one thinks Josh is missing again or not working on the game. Normally I wouldn't post anything here that had so little info on the state of Limit Theory, but this time I'm making an exception.
Another one of my Kick Starter regrets, such promise but no return on investment. This is beyond sad as I had such high hopes for this one. If anything I have become much more cautious of the projects I back nowadays. I'd love a refund, but I know it's just a pipe dream.
Max, what is really unfair and disrespectful is Josh's behavior with his backers. I could accept that the project will never be completed, that was a possibility from the very beginning. However, hiding from his backers at this point is more than a sign of cowardice. Josh, be a man and address your backers, we do not deserve this kind of unprofessional behavior.
Another game added to my waste of money section of Kickstarter. I am so glad I stopped using this service after I quickly realized Star Citizen was going to go no where. Out of the 5 games I have backed not a single one has made it anywhere near completion. It seems that Kickstarter is far to easy to get cash out of people with promises yet easy enough just to not deliver on a single one of them. Like most I had high hopes for Josh and he seemed to be genuine in what he was doing. However it is now the excuse train that every single kickstarter failure puts out. Then the run into silence and hide his head under a pillow while he spends the money he was given. I don't think I will ever sponsor anything on Kickstarter again as it does seem like a way to throw good money after bad.
and Josh - good luck, hope it's all coming together the way you want it :-)
I understand that there are people who backed for the prototype and/ or beta ( I didn't back that high ) and that a prototype had been released a while back with an update to it (1.1). If the game is unfinished then one solution could be to release a second prototype, so as not to break any kickstarter rules on rewards. As it's earlier than a beta and beta is really a feature complete version needing bug fixing and polish, it would allow the creator to release a version that is incomplete and hopefully put things at ease with people until he is ready to sign it off further. As long as there's notes stating that it may, in certain ways, it's not going to represent the beta or finished version that is planned some time after. Sure it would take time out of development to do this, but the advantage is there is a new recent release out and those who can use it could upload Youtube videos of their gameplay, share screenshots etc. It could be patched every three months or so up until beta. I have no idea how close the game is to beta right now so just sharing an idea.
>Well, at this point it is clear that Josh's only goal was to take our money and give nothing in return.
I think thats grossly unfair. Kickstarter projects have no guarantee of success, and programming projects even less so. There is a study that says that two/third of all software projects fail to deliver a running project - and thats in the business world, with all the checks and balances that QM or - worse - money at the stake offers.
When pledging for a one-man software show, chances were that this would fail as a game, but succeed as a learning project. Its sad that it went this way, but now to claim it was an attempt to just grab money disregards years of progress.
Just finish any terrible bugs right now and release. Then let people start playing, develop feed back and work on version two, or work on feature upgrades, like expanding stories or new races or whatever. Just give us a download to try. Please.
Disappointing that this game will probably never come out, but the creator could have at least posted something acknowledging everyone who donated money for this project that he either needs more time or can no longer finish the project. But remember those of you who want a refund, this is kickstarter, the money you give is a donation...
It's very sad that this project has been silent for more than one year now. When Josh posted his explanation for the last silent period one year back, I had my hopes up again that something would change. I also unterstand that having these kind of issues he was or is dealing with are serious, and that he needs to take his time.
I'm not complaining about the project taking so long. But not talking to us - his backers, his supporters - for more than one year is not excusable. It's disrespectful, and destroys all sympathy and compassion for Josh and his situation. It would be enough for us to get SOME sign of life every 2 or 3 months. Most people would be happy with that. If Josh is not capable of doing that, he could ask some friend or family member to post those life signs.
And to those guys constantly referring to the forums: forget it! This is a Kickstarter project, so the only thing that counts are Kickstarter updates. What Josh says, or allegedly says, through other media is not of any relevance in regard to the Kickstarter campaign.
Backing on Kickstarter does not guarantee that we get a result in the end. But it still should grant us the respect of the project owner. If the project has failed, fine, but then he should tell us!
Josh, it was exactly a year ago today that you last posted anything at all to us Kickstarter backers, and even that was just an apology for not being in touch.
During this year, as best as I can figure out, we've made negative progress towards a release of any kind: we don't even have a mythical release date any more, much less any kind of actual, honest-to-God information that might give us any kind of hope that you actually have the ability to release anything any more.
You've let us down, badly. Not with not delivering LT; we all understand the difficulties involved when you reach for the stars. But in not talking to us; not telling us honestly what we can expect, not being able to say "I need another year" or two years, or five, or more help, or something. By not communicating with us at all, you've lost our respect, and more importantly, our trust. I understand this was a deliberate choice, but you have to understand that this is the consequence of that choice.
Can you give us anything at all, to suggest that you can actually release something? Should we be making enquiries under Kickstarter's clauses for when the Creator is unable to fulfil pledges (not unwilling - we all know your dedication and your desire to produce LT - but after so long with no word of any kind, we have no reason to think that you are capable of doing this)?
You MUST make things clear now; we have waited long enough.
Posted on the forums, PM'ed to Josh, and in the comments on Kickstarter.
Well, at this point it is clear that Josh's only goal was to take our money and give nothing in return. Josh, I hope life treats you the same way you have treated your backers. I deeply regret having confided in you.
Hello, anyone home? Way to give a crap about your backers.
Sorry, but LT and ROAM are the reason I won't back anything through KS again.
The lack of accountability and the way KS take their 5% and do nothing for us, the backers, is appalling, IMHO.
Pledged 45$ like more 2 years ago and NOTHING ! What happened ? Any update about the game , any email to test the game..... I clearly LOST 45$ !
Concerned about the lack of any sort of update for nearly a year now, hoping this project isn't dead.
So I completely forgot that this game existed until I happened to scroll down my list of projects I had pledged for. Last update was a year ago, what happened?
To all of you complaining about this project: please read the original KS pitch and the KS rules...
You promised to suppport this project in return Josh promised to work on finishing the game of *HIS* dreams ...
You are merely patrons for an artist and not customers of a company.
At the time of the funding you either had trust in the idea and the creator, or you missunderstood the agreement (your fault not his)!
I dwell in the good feeling that I am enabling a person/artist to work on something he deeply cares about - the good feeling of beeing a supporter and a patro, with a (good) chance to also get the end result of this process.
If you don´t like the whole idea of Kickstarter than go to a gamestore and buy a game from electronic arts :-P
I'm ready for a refund now. Its been too long with nothing happening. When I backed this game it was new and exciting. Now not so much. With games like no man's sky and elite dangerous I have plenty to keep me entertained. I just kinda want my money back. Thanks
well I have seen something Josh might not like, I saw a game from a friend called Rebel Galaxy, well kind of looks like that he has been doing as well some aspects look like what he was doing to, not sure if this is something that might have caused problems. with his project, not sure if things in it are or will cause copy right issues if he knows about it.
Josh's behaviour shows a total lack of respect for his backers. His so called followers should realize that Josh is not God and has made several important errors, but I guess that when you are part of a sect you tend to loose the sense of reality.
nice if he posted here, you know for the people who are paying for his dream.
Course the reason he is working on an update is because he doesnt want to hit the 1 year mark without having some contact with his backers, which will happen on the 17 sep 2016.
He still hasnt grasped that we dont need big updates or big reveals he thinks that he can only say something if its big news. Well we just need evidence that is progress thats all.
Once again, Josh has posted in the forums saying that he's working on the game. More about how he'd die if he stopped working on it, but even less than usual about the state of things.
Is there any way to get a refund? This project has not delivered what was promised.
Unfortunately, the LT forums are full of people who are willing to encourage Josh's radio silence and total lack of respect for his backers.
Yes, I'm aware that he had a serious mental illness. I will not downplay that, and he has my sympathy for a variety of reasons. However, that does not preclude him from being honest with the people he took $187k from. I had hoped that his post-illness move to a proper office with sound business people around him and support from that local community of developers would help him produce a sensible roadmap, but instead we get... this. A child's approach to development.
Thats what you got, minus kickstarter's share to write this game.
No updates since September 2015, its almost been a year now. You tell us to look at the forums, where we see no updates since april 2016, and those updates amount to excuses again.
Get the game done, and start giving updates, EVERY WEEK!
You stole this money, and had fun with it, now do the work you promised!
I totally agree with the term "legalised theft". At least, that is what this project seems to be unless Josh decides to share with his backers some real information. But I am afraid that, contrary to Josh's words, there are not any advances in the development.
It is over three and a half years since I backed this and updates have been poor and still no game. As a result of this (and Godus) I no longer back games on Kickstarter and am wary of backing other projects too. Its a shame and I very much doubt there is a way to get my money back. Kickstarter should really protect the consumers backing these projects if they are not delivered on schedule (in this case over 2 and a half years behind scheduled ETA). I understand the developer had health issues and its only $20 I donated but with nothing to show for it, its almost classed as legalised theft.
Its so sad, this project started so great in communicating the improvements and problems but now no single update for months here at the KS!