by John Wick
I don't know if this has been asked or not, but what's the size on the decks? Are they TCG/CCG standard, or larger (as tarot cards often are)? I ask because I'm looking at the Card Caddy Double Decker Kickstarter, and don't want to buy accessories that the cards won't fit in :-).
John and team:
I know we don't know very much about the complete character creation process yet, but as we see this game grows and grows (Like it should, its great!) I think it's very safe to say things will get complex, detailed and extensive, with lots of choices, options and overlapping rules. This is wonderful, of course, but can also be awful...
Have you thought about ways to make this easier for the players?
Have you considered the possibility of adding a digital character generator as an stretch goal?
I'll gladly step up my pledge to get such an useful aid.
No problem! Glad to contribute!
Now all you need to do is listen to advice that doesn't come from inside your own head for once Mr Wick.
@John Wick: It was a random thing in college, and the local gaming club was run by a DM that was abusing the system (e.g. the club was there for his campaign, funding was for pizza parties for his game, etc), so I picked up the overflow until more people were comfortable with GMing (thus 15 players with one of my favorite games). It's insane, and you are right that rules fall apart at that point, but at least people had fun.
That said, there's still a concern that the Sorte card rules as-is might not work with a group that hits 5 players with experiences characters (not to mention 6, which was almost an "average" crew for my old games), the special effects can be a "wasted" action in some circumstances, and some players may feel they are missing out of the awesome narrative by wanting to roll dice instead.
Just a few concerns I wanted to mention in case they could help you make this game even better!
The players like to roll dice and I enjoy the Sorte play. We will most likely have a hybrid system depending on if we need high action rolling or Sorte card drama.
Being a student of historical combat, I'll be adding in some rules that enhance play based on the weapons the characters use.
I remember that John Wick started a community of the 7th Sea linked together and the world plot developed over time with the players and storytellers. He was ahead of his time with social media and a linked community. With the 7th Sea emerging on the horizon, a bold community linked by it could take the RP world by the...keel. Fair Winds!
Any idea if we'll get the secret societies source books for second edition or maybe swordsman school updates?
@John Wick - Sacrificing authenticity for usefulness may also sacrifice flexibility - some people might prefer to use different rules for a particular card. I must admit that I am also biased as I am collecting a deck for the artwork as much for playing. : )
@Jordi: The sorte deck has a different set of Greater Arcana than your standard tarot deck. :)
@David: "Will you be printing the effect the cards have on the game on the cards themselves?" That's the plan, although a lot depends on how "authentic" we want the cards to look/feel. Sacrificing authenticity for usefulness is something we're considering.
@Anthony: "It also doesn't work with larger groups due to the limits of the deck; my largest 7th Sea group (too large, but there were reasons) was 15 players."
I don't think most RPGs work with 15 players, dice or cards. At that point, you're pretty much playing a larp and that requires different rules all together. :)
Aaaaand congrats to John and crew on passing EX3 and making (further) RPG crowdfunding history!
I agree with @David Gatt Otherwise there's no much point in getting sorte cards instead of tarot ones (not that the sort deck does not look cool).
Question about the court and major arcana cards - Will you be printing the effect the cards have on the game on the cards themselves. For groups where only the GM reads the rules this would be a massive help.
Quick question that came up in conversation with my crew: if we do break the $684,756 mark, are the rules just a general freebie, or are they going to be OGL/open source? A major curiosity for those of us who enjoy kludging game mechanics together.
As for the Sorte rules, they look intriguing and are a great change of pace to dice, but some of them feel a little limited with regards to the Court Cards (i.e. getting the Dame of Swords sounds great. . .until you are in a duel).
It also doesn't work with larger groups due to the limits of the deck; my largest 7th Sea group (too large, but there were reasons) was 15 players. I doubt I'll be doing that again, but it is a concern for larger groups (whether permanent or temporary). Unless I'm doing my math wrong, it only really works for a group of four to five players and one GM at maximum (max of 10 dice before Hero Points and abilities; 64 card deck). Considering that my convention games tend to be five to six players (to introduce as many people as possible to a new game), and the "average" sized gaming groups tend to be in that range, a deck might not work.
An alternative, though, would be to have an additional "advanced play" or an "alternative play" option: a player may swap a naturally rolled 10 for a Court Card (randomly drawn from the deck); this card may be spent as a Raise or spent for its special effect. If it is not used by the end of the round, the player may spend a Hero Point to hold the card until a later time.
This way, the deck is still useful is the group is getting large, it is useful for players that still love rolling dice instead of being dealt cards (some players just LOVE dice), and the special effects can still impact the way the game works as though the Sorte deck were still used.
I'm looking forward to seeing more of the changes that are coming with the second edition! Keep up the good work and stay healthy, everyone!
And for those of you who previously left comments, I'm passing them on to the people!
I'm glad we have such a positive response from the community about the Sorte cards!
A quick favor: if you have a comment or suggestion about the Sorte Deck pdf or how to use them, please don't comment at dropbox -- I'm the only one that gets notifications of them and I'm just the layout designer. It is better to give feedback here on Kickstarter. That way, your feedback will get to the people that can take advantage of your comments!
The Major Arcana there include notable mythical characters like Babalaye and Mami-Wata,
Not linked to this project but another Kickstarter had a wonderful Vudu Tarot deck of cards perfect for adventures in Ifri. Prescience prompted me to get that deck in advance. ;-)
Free basic rules is a great idea. Looking forward to running this with a deck now. Will look out my old tarot deck for when the updated kick start rules appear.
@NathanHenderson, I am actually from Oyo, who would have guessed?
Looking totally forward to the new Quickstarter, and hopefully less "why even roll" rules.
And still, for a Cathay Sourcebook :)
So that's Mali, Oyo/Yoruban, and Ethiopia accounted for in Ifri :) I wonder if Dahomey/Fon will get their own expy nationality or be more under the broader Oyan umbrella (as Dahomey was a satellite state to the Oyo in the 17th Century, with huge religious/cultural overlap).
In any event putting definite money on a Mutapa expy in there somewhere!
Looking forward to those new changes John, I've gotten about a dozen people interested in this system just from my stories of when I games with friends back in the early 2000s. They are all hopped up about it and I got my local store to buy in as well.. plus several of us have jumped on here to get the good stuff.. glad to see this come back, I had been thinking of running a game soon then this happened.. was I pleasantly surprised.. I'm also a Fan of your L5R stuff as well..
When would you release the free rules? I think this would bring more people to the table (and let already those interested to create some characters and play before the full release).
And now I'm dying to know which Ifri kingdom was inspired by Dahomey....
I cannot wait to see the high-resolution maps! :D
Though, I do wish that they looked a bit more hand-drawn than what I've seen. I'd love to roll it out and use it more like a prop than as just a functional map. However, maybe some photohop layers might be able to make it look a bit more "authentic". I'm not complaining, mind you, just thinking that if it'd be possible to make them a bit more "authentic" to the setting, that'd be really cool, as long as they were just as functional. :)
I'm thinking black cover with silver foil on the edges of the pages and then foil embossed in gold it will say 7th sea. In that great script. Just my thoughts. I hope it has a nice ribbon bookmark attached to it or maybe even a couple of them in different colors so I can quickly get to my favorite or most used sections. Oh I must get a book stand for this one to display it. Thank you John Wick for more adventures. :-D
@Fabiano Fagundes: Exalted 3rd Edition, in May/Jun 2013.
Can't wait to pass Exalted and loving the new cover.
Any word on a mock-up of the leather bound main book?
Out of curiosity, which is the actual #1 kickstarter rpg?
@Susan - We'll definitely have them out before the weekend!
@SM - We'll provide a print and play of all the deck as soon as they are available. :D
Love the Sorte deck idea! Can we get a print and play at the end of the campaign to use until we get the physical deck?
Okay, we were hoping to play the new rules by Friday
@susan - We're still working on them. We're looking at a lot of changes, so we'll need just a bit longer! :D
whaaaaat about the updated quick start rules ?
Beautiful cover art. Really representative of our black brothers.
The face paint is nice homage to the traditional of ancestor ghosts and orishas too. :-D