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Build a city, enhance allegiances, and expand control using worker dice in this dystopian-themed board game for 2-6 players.
Build a city, enhance allegiances, and expand control using worker dice in this dystopian-themed board game for 2-6 players.
4,765 backers pledged $309,495 to help bring this project to life.

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    1. Missing avatar

      Brian Gallagher on

      Aside from that.... i think kickstarter exclusives are kinda dumb. I know i like them when I get in on the kickstarter, but I HATE HATE HATE them when I buy the game retail and do not feel like I have the complete game. There have been MANY games I have passed on for that reason and I am willing to bet I am not the only one.

    2. Missing avatar

      Brian Gallagher on

      Sell them....Make Money.....Feed Your Family...... Ohh and make more games!

    3. Missing avatar

      Thomas Robb on

      The better the components the better the game, the more people want to play it, the better for the industry, etc. Offer the KS extra "grand" pieces at a cheaper price than you would at retail later. It encourages KS backers as they get a better deal, but allows others to buy the deluxe tokens as well. I want to buy an extra set of "supreme" tokens for Euphoria, but am willing to pay a higher price than I would have on KS. I do not want KS backers to become an "elite" force that only gets the "extra goodies" but I do believe KS backers should get a discount as they originally helped deliver the game to the public.

    4. Darren Anderson on

      Your company mate. You've done pretty damn good so far, so I will continue to have faith in your directing guidance for the company.

    5. Edward Centofante on

      I backed because I wanted to see this project succeed. Do what you'd like, but just try to think of ways to reward your kickstarter backers in the future (perhaps a lower price tier for backing your next game?).

    6. Jim Chaney on

      @David (to beat the horse some more)

      a) Cost is irrelevant. I took the risk, they didn't. The components were supposed to be unique, not available again.
      b) Not at all. But they cannot be the same tokens I bought (make more metal gold bars sure, logically be 'gold bar shaped', but dont print EUPHORIA on them).
      c) Yes, but the 'paid less money for' dig is unnecessary, see point a)
      d) Totally irrelevant question, you may as well ask if I am pro-slavery or something
      e) And a question that seems to be a polite rephrase of 'does exclusivity make you feel superior or something?'

      The last question is vaguely interesting, because of the number of people who come out with the 'I will never buy XXX game because I cannot get all the exclusive bits'. I call utter BS on that one; the boardgame industry is constantly allowing titles to go out of print, making it impossible to complete a collection without buying SECOND-HAND.

      It does mean however that the price of these SECOND-HAND copies of Euphoria, or Key Market, or Zombicide or whatever go up in value, which to me is a major factor to get in and back a project like this in the first place. If there is money to be made in the increased value of the exclusive items, then as the risk-taking investor, *I* want it.

    7. Arbitrary Ranger on

      you have my blessing - everybody needs this game and it's awesome resources

    8. Jamey Stegmaier 8-time creator
      Superbacker
      on

      @Julia: Unfortunately Biddy didn't quite understand the rules. He thought it was a dexterity game.

    9. Julia Gosztyla Ziobro
      Superbacker
      on

      Biddy is winning, right, Jamey? :-)

    10. Timothy Roller
      Superbacker
      on

      Honestly, why not just include something cheap and printable with the games that denotes them being from KS. I think the pride people have in backing comes from that, and more than searching for their name in a list of thousands. I'd much rather see the premium things as slightly discounted items during the kickstarter and sold at regular price later than A)not have them at all or B) collecting dust in your warehouse/closet.

    11. Skimple on

      @Brad EZ Hay - You nailed it. I back projects because I want to see them completed and it's great if/when I can get some stuff for free or at a discounted price included in the KS.

      For me boardgaming is social, it's about sharing time and a good game with people, in that spirit the more access to good games the better.

      I'm not sure what the return on investment on collecting boardgames is, but whenever I hear of people 'investing' in toys/games I remember the parents of an ex-girlfriend years ago: they had beanie babies, plastic case upon plastic case of beanie babies… there was a time where they probably could have sold at a profit but they held onto them and they probably still have them.

      No one is going to get rich off of selling a KS edition of Euphoria, and that's not a knock against the game, so if you're concerned about your investment being diluted with the 'extras' suddenly being available as a for purchase extra, then now is your time to sell. You'll make your money back. Time to move on, let us who enjoy the game, play the game and share the game as it was intended.

    12. Josette Baysdell on

      Wow, I put off commenting here for a day and it looks like things have exploded.

      I must admit, I have conflicting feelings about this myself. On the one hand, I like "exclusive" backer rewards because it makes me feel like it's worth it to take a chance on a game by backing in return for stuff that the retail version won't contain. That "special component/scenario/mini/whatever" does influence me to back a game. And it feels a little like I've been cheated when the company then decides to offer those same things to future purchasers, usually through the BGG store. Where was the fun and excitement of getting that "special version"?

      On the other hand, I also understand what it's like to miss a Kickstart, find out about it too late, and then feel sad I can't buy what was available during the KS. I also agree that playing with the realistic resources and the wooden authority stars definitely enhances the feel of the game. Everyone LOVES the components.

      So, I think the best solution, as others have suggested, is to develop those resources for the treasure chest as slightly different than what was offered during the KS. Take the Euphoria off the gold, (better anyway for other games) maybe slightly change the color of the clay (the shape is perfect), same with the stone, or better yet, make the stone more like the clay but in a grey color. The whole idea of selling components like this is a good one. I'd buy such a thing in a heartbeat for my other games. You could do wood, and little resin scrolls or tablets for paper, rolls of cloth, jugs for wine, barrels for beer or ale. Very cool.

      In the end, I'd understand if you decided to do this. It would not keep me from backing other Stonemaier games. But exclusivity is a big draw. Taking it out of your KS projects might yield a higher percentage of folks who decide to wait for the games to come out and buy from a distributor. I suppose if we could get the "special components" for less, that would help. Just my thoughts.

    13. Brad EZ Hay on

      @ BrimstoneTrollMike - I get what you are saying, but in some ways it was forseeable. Take a trip to BGG and see how people trick out there games. There is a growing secondary market for "pimpin out" your games. From people buying sheep for agricola to improved meeples instead of cubes in Lords of Waterdeep.

      In fact, Caverna recognized this and upgraded the components compared to Agricola. It may seem a silly thing, but improved components do improve the game play and make it stand out in people's memories.

      Things that I (and yes, that is my opinion) don't mind seeing as KS exclusives are the sleeve for the box, the names printed on the manual. The recruit cards with people's faces is another cool one.I even didn't mind Among the Stars doing alternate art on some cards.

      There is a happy medium here somewhere and I trust Jamey (sorry for the previous improper spellings) will find it and deliver on it.

    14. GLGMike on

      I actually thought Jamey hit the right balance by making upgraded components KS exclusive, not gameplay components themselves, as with viticulture/arboriculture. The problem is that SMG did such a great job with upgrading the components, that we all acknowledge that they affect gameplay after all!

      Blame Jamey for doing his job too well, and making this problem come up in the first place. :o)

    15. Malcolm Norman on

      I'm more than happy for you to do what you feel is best for your business, you have always treated us fairly and you have earned our trust. I know for a fact that the gaming circle I am with would love to buy the treasure chest to supplement their games. We only buy one copy of the game and rotate what we play, well almost two of the guys did buy Discworld on the same day :)
      Really looking forward of to Tuscany as I want a copy of Viticulture.

    16. Missing avatar

      David Thompson on

      I'm with Brad when it comes to speculative buying. it nearly killed comicbooks in the nineties, and while it can provide a small, short term boost to crowdsourced projects, it tends to sour opinions, when someone is shopping for something and they see the kickstarter exclusives on ebay, at double the cost of the base game. it further seperates the haves from the want-to-haves.

    17. Brad EZ Hay on

      @ Donald - I can respect and understand that opinion while disagreeing with it. For me, If they become available, I am happy for those who get them. The more people who get and enjoy the games, the better the games become for all of us.

      Also, I got my stuff already at no extra charge. That was my bonus. (In my opinion) and I have no desire to see others held without just to make me feel special.

      As a person who missed the original Zombicide, I will never purchase the game, because it is impossible to complete it. They loose out on all future sales to me because of this.

      Yes I know I could ebay it and that some people pick up multiple copies to ebay them, but when it comes to this stuff, IMO ebay is the devil. I come here to help games (or other projects) get made. I spend some money upfront to help something see the light of day. I am not here to speculate or generate income for a retirement fund. The more people who can there hands on a game or product the better imo for all of us as it leads to more stuff being made.

    18. Jason Speicher
      Superbacker
      on

      one just has to look at fief at what KS exclusives are, you can pick them up afterwords for basically the full price of the game. I for one am fine with exclusives being timed/then made as an 'upgrade pack' in the future. Something like the Sleeve would be nice to remain exclusive tho.

    19. Missing avatar

      David Thompson on

      metaphors are not my strong suit, though I do love them.

    20. Missing avatar

      David Thompson on

      I think though, that if one can find a bed that might be more comfortable, one could simply ask those he made the bed for if it's alright to switch beds.

    21. Donald Poynter
      Superbacker
      on

      @Brad - I think the majority of people agree with you and that they "would love to see every promo/bonus item available for purchase somewhere so that everyone can get everything." However, that becomes a major problem when some of those items were offered up and labeled as "kickstarter exclusives." If Jamey shared your opinion at the time, he would obviously not have made anything exclusive. But because he chose to do so, he must now decide whether he will stand by that promise. Brimstone's reference to the old saying "As you make your bed, so you must lie in it" seems fitting.

    22. GLGMike on

      @David - I haven't taken a position, but what I have observed here so far is that many backers believe that it does. Whether that assessment is correct or not is irrelevant from SMG's perspective. A lost customer is a lost customer, whatever the reason.

      As I said, though, some percentage of that group will be ok if the components are changed. The more dramatic the change, the more of that group will decide that SMG is keeping their promise (whatever they believe that promise to have been) and will remain loyal customers.

      It is up to SMG to decide whether to sell the treasure chests at all, and if so, how dramatically different to make the components in order to minimize the number of "offended" backers.

      Just realize that there will be some core group (I really have no idea - 5, 250?) who will be offended if SMG offers any kind of Euphoria components. It's impossible to please everyone, so it's up to SMG to decide if that number is small enough to justify going forward with this proposal.

      And let me emphasize this again - there is no wrong or right answer. It is for SMG to decide what makes the best business sense.

    23. Missing avatar

      David Thompson on

      @ Brimstone Trollmike - are you saying that offering similar but different items as a purchasable extra would devalue the KS-only upgraded materials tokens? What I'm driving at, is, if the new upgraded components are different from the free ones we got in the kickstarter, is that really going back on the "KS Exclusive" stamp? it is ostensibly a different, but similar product, similar to some games having event-exclusive card art (see Netrunner) where the product is funcitonally the same, but with a different aesthetic. Having the non-exclusive art version of the card being available normally does not detract from the exclusive card having exclusive art, and I think that having new upgraded materials products (without the euphoria stamp on the gold bricks) should be treated in a simialar fashion. it's the same product in terms of gameplay, but it is aesthetically different.

    24. Diego Sotomayor Noel on

      Jamey, this is a really interesting debate you have started. I am hopping for at least two KS lesson from this :) My opinion as a small store, backer x4 games, outside USA.

      Knowing the actual price for the extras will help costumers know the "real" prices for an item like this (no Ebay here), and will help store showing the actual discount/yet more extras their are getting and not feeling like they are paying what some "enthusiastic" guy payed on an auction.

      That said, I am glad the argument is heading the "new components" direction. You have made an excellent campaign showing you have a lot of respect for all your backers. Taking a decision based on a poll that could ignore 10% of them will have been a huge strike against that.

      I think the point now is to decided how much different are this going to be and this is a matter of perspective in which Jamey have to be really carefull. Do them to well, and original backer could feel really bad. Doing them the same material with a direffent form could just make some people that believe the new mold is better really sad.

      Maybe is something rare to say this but, could the quality of them be one step lower? that way you could still give the experience of playing with upgraded pieces, not making sad backer, and give people more incentives to back future proyects.

    25. Brad EZ Hay on

      Edit to previous post :

      .. and I see no reason to not further trust you...

    26. Brad EZ Hay on

      As for myself, I am fine with whatever you decide to do Jamie. You have been open and concerned about your backers at every step of the way. You have delivered a tremendous product and experience and I see no reason to further trust you.

      As for KS exclusives, I personally hate hate hate them. I hate playing a game at a friends, then going and buying it to find out what I get from the retail edition is different from what I played. This applies mostly to game play exclusives.

      When I back KS projects I look for several things. I will back a game that is fresh or different. I will back a game by a company or person I trust (TMG. SMG, etc). I will back a game that has good value.

      To me the the special components are awesome, and I get value from them by backing. If Jamie sells them, someone else can then enjoy the game the same as all of us. My value came from getting them for free.

      I personally would love to see every promo/bonus item available for purchase somewhere so that everyone can get everything. I recently purchased Among the Stars and I was extremely happy to be able to get the original promo's from Indego (I had missed the original crowd funding) with the expansion. The fact they did them with alternate art was a nice compromise. Original backers still had something special, but I was still able to complete the set for the total experience. I did not mind paying extra to get those.

      TLDR : I trust Jamie to find a balance that lets everyone get everything, while keeping everyone happy.

    27. GLGMike on

      As others have pointed out, there seem to be two separate questions being discussed here - whether to make the Euphoria components available now, and whether Stonemaier Games should move away from KS Exclusive components altogether (or "are KS Exclusive components good or bad?")

      On the first question, someone else made a good point - irrespective of the poll outcome, many of those who voted no will be upset if Euphoria components are made available. SMG needs to make a decision in the world as it exists, not as they might wish it to be. Is it worth it to go forward, even if the vote is 90% in favor, if it means losing a fair number of prior fans/supporters? I'm not sure that it is.

      Of course, there will be some backers on the margin who will be placated if the components are changed, and the more significant the change, the more who will find the situation acceptable. It's all a matter of degree. But in the end, the point someone else made is - SMG made a business decision to offer upgraded components and slap a "KS Exclusive" label on them. That green black and white symbol has a shorthand meaning, even if the FAQ mitigated that label somewhat. It would help if everyone would acknowledge that the KS Exclusive label communicates something particular. Understanding that, SMG has to decide whether to lie in the bed they made, or move on. There is no right or wrong answer - just that there are consequences either way - lose out on revenue from selling those components in the treasure box, or risk losing revenue from customers who feel like SMG was dishonest about "KS Exclusive" when it comes to future games down the road (whether that feeling is justified or not). I'm not sure the poll should be determinative for SMG in that light.

      On the broader question, Jamey has said that SMG is moving away from KS Exclusive components altogether. Again, from a business perspective, that is their choice, and there is no right or wrong answer. But for the reasons I stated last night, it provides a disincentive for those who purchase multiple copies to resell later. More than one person has sneered at this practice, but let me add a further wrinkle - I wonder if MiniatureMarket.com would have pledged for a bulk order of the Deluxe copies if the KS Exclusive components had not been included? I don't know the answer, but I raise the question because I don't think anyone would cast moral aspersions at MM for what they did, and from SMG's perspective that source of additional revenue must be part of the consideration here.

      I will also note for all the individual backers here that the practice of purchasing multiple copies (whether by cretinous eBay resellers or MiniatureMarket.com) has a direct benefit to all the backers - it raises the pledge total to achieve more stretch goals. SMG's decision to end KS Exclusives will very likely result in a lower pledge total (how much lower, I have no idea - only SMG knows how many bulk pledges were made, and not all those were resellers), which may result in fewer stretch goals. It's possible that the lack of KS Exclusives may result in a few more backers who despise KS Exclusives, but I suspect that number is pretty small.

      Long story short - I have no opinion on what is the "right" decision either for selling the Euphoria components, or moving away from KS Exclusives altogether. I just know that there are consequences either way, and SMG is a business that needs to make the decision that is in their own short- and long-term best business interests.

    28. Rick on

      I think heading in the direction of changing to more generic components is better anyway. It will make it easier long-term for replacement components if needed.

      I don't see a need to change the brick though. They were already very similar to the ones used in Hamburgum, although extra height made yours a little better for gameplay.

      http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1268121/hamburgum

    29. Jamey Stegmaier 8-time creator
      Superbacker
      on

      Thanks for your thoughts, Tim09. I really appreciate your vote of confidence.

    30. Tim09
      Superbacker
      on

      I love KS exclusives, they are one of the reasons I will back a project because since getting into this hobby I realized I have an addiction to trying to get EVERYTHING for a game. KS provides me a means of doing so at a cost that my wallet and I can stomach rather than purchasing products second hand from what essentially is scalping a game like tickets (but I believe in capitalist ideals and credit is due when people make smart investments and if I really want something I need to pay for it, simple supply and demand). If Jamey were to sell these products at a higher rate I wouldn't be bummed out about losing "exclusivity" rather I'd be stoked that I got everything at a reduced price while also making the dream come true and allowing this game to be printed in the first place. For me that is the ultimate awesome thing about it. I finally got to play my copy for the first time last night (and it was AWESOME) the best part about it was being able to talk to my friends (people who had no idea what the game was about) and tell them how I helped make it a reality. Furthermore how we as backers helped shape the game (miner meeple, which I LOVE). To me that experience is better than any exclusive item I get with the campaign.

      I have never ran a Kickstarter nor will I ever, but I definitely see the inherent slippery slope now in regards to KS exclusives. Do they still entice me to fund a project? Absolutely! However, do I want others to be able to enjoy the same experience I have playing the game and the opportunity to get every part of it? Absolutely! Last night playing the game made me realize how truly awesome it is with all wooden components and real resources, simply an AMAZING experience. It would just feel selfish of me to deny that opportunity to anyone else.

      If I were to have 1 Kickstarter Exclusive and one I think no one could get mad about and is definitely "exclusive" it would be to put the KS Backers names inside either the box or the rulebook. I wont say names but another project I backed is doing this and have pledged to keep those names in every iteration of the rules. To me that is just cool, now I can show my friends and say look this is something cool I had the opportunity to be a part of. To me that is better than an exclusive additional item I could get my hands on, in essence that is almost a piece of immortality.

      I know I am rambling so to conclude, specifically in this scenario I would want the joy of those tokens to be available to everyone. I appreciate the nobility and humility with which Jamey is approaching the situation. He is trying to make a mistake he made right while also trying to appease everyone. After seeing how this project was run I can sincerely say that Jamey is authentic in his approach to customer service and taking care of his backers, it truly is impressive. I applaud his integrity in consulting backers rather than just going ahead and doing it anyways. Trying to find a solution that is amenable to everyone is something you just don't see these days, don't know of many other businesses that would take this approach especially not mega corporations. I look forward to future projects from Jamey (especially the soon to be hit game Turd On A Stick ;-) ) and my dollars will be going towards Tuscany with glee. Keep up the good work and good lucky with Tuscany!

    31. Kyle Lemons on

      I think that there should always be something that is KS exclusive. I think this debate about also selling the resource tokens (which I think is fine) might change your future planning of exactly what is and is not going to be exclusive, but I think there is just so much to be gained by letting your first backers have something recognizably special. Perhaps you can do something like making only the last stretch add on an exclusive, and let the earlier ones be SMG exclusive or something along those lines.

    32. Jamey Stegmaier 8-time creator
      Superbacker
      on

      @Geraldine: I don't know David, but I'm not getting that impression at all from him. I think he's genuinely asking good questions so we can find a solution that works for both the 90% and the 10%.

      @Nathan: I like the rephrasing of the question (""What do you think about Stonemaier offering realistic material resource tokens (similar to those in the Euphoria Kickstarter) for use in Stonemaier Games at a premium price outside of Kickstarter?"), and it looks like that's the direction we're headed in.

    33. Missing avatar

      David Thompson on

      @ Geraldine - I am definitely biased, and unfortunately that has come into my phrasing. for that I apologise. But the root of my questioning is to determine just what about making new upgraded components is offensive. Sometimes all it takes is to see an issue worded differently to provide an insight into the other side's argument. From my point of view (and I don't begrudge those that disagree), the exclusivity was to get the components with the game, at no additional cost, an opportunity that nobody else is ever going to get the opportunity to do.

      If there is a compromise that can be reached, this benefits everyone, The retail consumers, the backers (I know I would LOVE to buy another set to use in other games, myself, and I'm sure there are many others), the company, and, really, the industry. People say it's the same game without the pieces, and it's true, the mechanics are no different, and the pieces confer no in-game advantage, but, the game gains something in how much more tactile it becomes, and how much better the aesthetic is visually, as well. It really is a superior game with those pieces, and that means that we've already recieved a superior product because we happened to notice the kickstarter at a point in time when we were able to back it.

      Jamey's not stated that he'll be offering retail copies of euphoria with those components, in fact, he's stated the opposite. Now that things like alternate sculpts have been discussed, and there's been confirmation that no version of euphoria will ship with enhanced components, I don't feel that what is being considered here is actually relevant to the "Exclusivity" discussion at all.

    34. Missing avatar

      Geraldine on

      Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to post twice.

    35. Danyel G on

      After looking at the kickstarter home page again, I think it's clear that the resources are exclusives that were "added to the game" that we got as backers. As such, I think it's reasonable that you can offer the resources for sale separately from the retail version of the game. However, I do understand the objection others have as just considering the word exclusive. I do believe changing them slightly would continue to keep the spirit of that exclusivity as well as make them more generic to be used for other games.

      I'm glad to know that the path forward will be SMG exclusives as well (I'm slowly falling into the dislike KS exclusives camp). I hope including those SMG exclusives in the KS version will still encourage people to back the game. What I got with my Euphoria version was certainly worth backing the game over waiting for retail and I'm excited to see Tuscany (and future projects) from SMG.

    36. Missing avatar

      Nathan Wiltse on

      If the poll question was phrased as the following, I don't think you would get much/any opposition.

      "What do you think about Stonemaier offering realistic material resource tokens (similar to those in the Euphoria Kickstarter) for use in Stonemaier Games at a premium price outside of Kickstarter?"

      It preserves the uniqueness of the Euphoria KS exclusives for those who care, and allows you to provide a really great gaming addition to other game buyers (who really should be able to enjoy a similar experience). I do think that you can offer the Euphoria tokens as "extras", or a second series run as an add-on to a future KS. This has been done by enough KS campaigns, that I think its now in the realm of "Accepted Practice".

      I do think that the current poll question request as written probably does violate both the spirit and letter of the "KS Exclusive" descriptor as it specifically asks the distribute "the" Euphoria KS exclusive design outside of the KS arena. I appreciate being asked.

    37. Missing avatar

      Geraldine on

      @ Jamey: I don't feel that David's questions 'get to the heart of this' at all. They are phrased in a one-sided, sneering way, and are likely to stir up hostility just when almost everyone was agreeing on a compromise (same resources, significantly different moulds).

      @ David:
      I mostly agree with Donald's answers to your questions, especially the point that this is not about refusing to allow a company to evolve, but about expecting them to keep promises they made as part of our 'deal'.

      Jamey recently described that promise as 'naive', which I think means 'has proved inconvenient, given my new plans', but actually it was some of the backers who were naive, assuming that promises made during a KS campaign could not be withdrawn later on.

    38. Missing avatar

      Geraldine on

      @ Jamey: I don't feel that David's questions 'get to the heart of this' at all. They are phrased in a one-sided, sneering way, and are likely to stir up hostility just when almost everyone was agreeing on a compromise (same resources, significantly different moulds).

      @ David:
      I mostly agree with Donald's answers to your questions, especially the point that this is not about refusing to allow a company to evolve, but about expecting them to keep promises they made as part of our 'deal'.

      Jamey recently described that promise as 'naive', which I think means 'has proved inconvenient, given my new plans', but actually it was some of the backers who were naive, assuming that promises made during a KS campaign could not be withdrawn later on.

    39. Kevin Chen on

      I'm torn. Part of the reason I Kickstarted Euphoria was because of the exclusive bits, the resources in particular. When I play games I love and I find out there are components that I missed out on because I didn't get in on a Kickstarter, or go to a game convention I find that incredibly frustrating. It balkanizes the game and makes me feel like I am not playing a true copy, so I always like the option to buy promotional items, and it feels very selfish to deny it to others.

      On the other hand, the resource components do not alter gameplay, but rather they are more like exclusive art, numbered copies, alternate slip covers and things like that. I think ultimately they should remain exclusive, or at least very rare. At the end of the day, I am less likely to back a project that offers special Kickstarter components after the Kickstarter.

    40. Sean Nowell on

      For me, I'm not feeling betrayed. Rather, the decision Jamey makes will determine how I view his character and integrity.

      a: Agree with Donald: this is irrelevant as the problem is the term 'exclusive'.
      b: Agree with Donald: it should only preclude them from making the same components available.
      c: Yes
      d: Businesses need to change. Sticking with one way of doing things or one plan for success is setting up the business for failure. If you're asking, should businesses never go back on their word or what they promised to deliver, then my answer is they should keep to that word/promise as much as they can.
      e: Agree with Donald: this is irrelevant as the resources were not only free, but free and exclusive.

      Offering exclusives in a project is a big mess, one which I hope goes away, or, as other users state, is specifically defined how they are exclusive (e.g. Never be offered again; offered x amount of time after the project has been delivered to backers; etc.)

      Actually, no, I hope exclusives go away, period.

    41. Joey van Egmond on

      Tbh Jamey, you shouldnt have asked this honestly to your backers, saved you alot of time/trouble/headache/effort :)

    42. Rick on

      Manufacturing the gold bars without the Euphoria stamp would make them more appealing for other games.

      As far as I'm concerned, manufacturing components like the brick and gold and offering them for sale separately isn't breaking the Kickstarter exclusivity promise.

    43. Brian on

      Jamey, I wouldn't have a problem with you offering the upgraded resources to anyone as an add on. I wouldn't even have a problem with you replacing the regular resources with the upgraded ones in every copy of Euphoria going forward. However, the only reason that I'm okay with that is because you ran such an excellent kickstarter and delivered a great game. If the Kickstarter campaign had been dodgy, or the game was forgettable, I would feel kind of gypped that I put up money to support something unknown that turned out to be not-so-great and now everyone can get what I got with out putting anything on the line.

      I feel like Kickstarter exclusives are the best reason to pledge any gaming project. If there's nothing special about what you're getting, then why pledge at all unless you are sure it's going to be a well ran project and the game is going to be good? This is particularly the case with something that is funded and trying to hit stretch goals. Saving $20 isn't enough of a reason for me to fund something when I could wait until it hits the shelves and at least read a bunch of reviews, or even play it before I make my decision. Again, this isn't how I feel about SMG, but that's because we have history now. If I hadn't pledged for Euphoria and saw a new game by you with no exclusives, I would be unlikely to back it.

    44. Donald Poynter
      Superbacker
      on

      @David - Not at all. As long as they are distinguishable, the original components maintain their exclusiveness.

    45. Jamey Stegmaier 8-time creator
      Superbacker
      on

      These are great questions, David. Thank you for getting to the heart of this.

    46. Missing avatar

      David Thompson on

      thanks for the answers, Donald. I'm still trying to understand the other side of this issue, and why it's causing so much trouble. I appreciate your efforts to communicate that in a productive way.

      with your answer to "C", do you feel that if the parts are distinguishable (no euphoria stamp, a different sculpt for the clay, and some other solution for the stone) that offering those products would in any way be a betrayal of trust, or going back on their word?

    47. Donald Poynter
      Superbacker
      on

      @ David - Here is my opinion:
      a. No, not relevant.
      b. No, it should only preclude them from making the same components available.
      c. Yes, as long as they are sufficiently distinguishable.
      d. No, but they should never go back on their word. Jamey has made it clear he is changing exclusives in the future and I have no problem with that at all.
      e. No, but also not relevant.

      As to your last question, the specific components labeled as “kickstarter exclusive” are the exclusive parts. No more, no less. I have no problem at all with SMG offering upgraded components, just not those specific components.

    48. Jamey Stegmaier 8-time creator
      Superbacker
      on

      @stevelabny: ("Because otherwise, why would I believe any exclusives or discounts on the Tuscany campaign? ") Because here's the thing: I would be breaking my promise to backers if the next version of Euphoria I produced had the Kickstarter exclusive components in it, even if I priced it at $80 and only sold it on Kickstarter. I'm not doing that--that would be a complete betrayal of the trust you all put in me. But I'm a little bewildered by the perception that I can never made realistic gold, clay, and stone tokens again in any context.

    49. Jon Hermsen on

      I think you hit on a really brilliant idea with these realistic resources.

      I got two copies of the game, and gave one to my brother for Christmas. One of the biggest highlights with his experience has been the realistic resources. My brother in law played a game with us as well, and he loved them, impressive for not being a gamer himself.

      I would LOVE this type of component for every game I ever play again. I would feel great about it if you were to change the components and offer that new set for sale on your site and through future Kickstarters. If you happen to be sitting on extras of the current designs later this year I'd even be fine with them being given away (through promotional events, conventions, etc...).

      Selling the current design though.... No, not as excited about that. My concern is more with the reputation of you and your game company. I didn't back to get a couple of copies of Euphoria. I backed in order to help SMG launch a new product and help their business expand. From that perspective anything that hurts your business longevity is something that I'll not be happy about.

    50. Missing avatar

      David Thompson on

      as an addition to my previous, one more question:

      what portion of the add on do you feel is the exclusive part? "upgraded components"? the specific sculpts? the specific materials? only offering during the original kickstarter, only offering during kickstarters? is it the fact that it is the only way to get free upgrades, or upgrades in the box with euphoria? finding out what is causing people to get so vehement that they are being betrayed might be useful. Would you prefer if the next Stonemaier kickstarter does not offer upgraded components, because that is something that they offered with euphoria, and they are never allowed to again?