by Inside the Box Board Games
Still waiting... Argentina.
Still waiting too... Sydney, Australia.
Yip, still waiting in New Zealand.. Almost two weeks and no word.. come on....
Still waiting on mine. No word yet of when it is coming.
It's not a slight delay that is the issue, it's the combination of everything, from slight delay for some, to not delivered still for 600 backers, while we are selling copies via retail. It's the SG and collectors ed changes (tbf, I haven't got my copy yet so I don't know what was dropped or why).
You can't say this campaign is well run yet if you have received your copy while significant numbers of others are still waiting to hear where their copy is.
Still haven't got my game. The excuses are getting old. Don't start a kickstarter campaign until you have everything lined up in case you reach the goal.
As some others have said in the comments below, I thought this campaign was well run. I got mine in Brisbane, Australia a few months after the estimated delivery time which is what I have come to expect from all KS campaigns. Very few KS campaigns deliver on time to the US and sure there were some minor issues but all in all it was a pretty well run KS. You guys communicated regularly and I never felt like I was not going to get a game at the end, unlike some KS games I have backed, in fact I am still waiting on one that was meant to arrive in December of 2016.
I would gladly back another one of your campaigns if the game interested me. Newspeak doesn't but I am really enjoying Sub Terra, in fact it even inspired me to write my first boardgame review on BGG.
@Scott I agree but from the details on the newspeak kickstarter made it appear that they had grown and learned from their mistakes concerning SGs and communication, but still wanted to use GQ as their shipping. So for me this would make only shipping and the logistics the main concern, pending them actually learning of course ;-)
I'm still chasing for info on the last remaining outstanding orders. From what I know there are around 600.
Any word on the rest of the international orders? I'm still waiting for the game, and it was supposed to be sent out in the first wave... I'm fine with waiting, but not knowing anything sucks.
@Jack - it is not just about a delay. I agree almost all KS's are delayed and this was not that bad of a delay for those who have got their game already. Those still waiting probably have a different opinion. There were other issues such as removed SG's and a lack of communication. Given all of this I see why some people are really upset. I am in the middle. I am a bit disappointed, but wouldn't necessarily let it stop me from future ITB projects.
This is just absolutely stupid. If someone doesn't back you because you are slightly late on the KS they are overreacting. I have many games behind schedule and would rather have something behind than rushed and look and play like crap. I understand pulling it and then hopefully more people will pledge after they are hands on with subterra and forget about the minor shipping snafu, but I hate that it has dictated your process. The pre-production and kickstarter/social teams for your company have nothing to do with the post-production of subterra and its disappointing that you have to wait.
So are we getting a new tracking number, if we were one of the ones who were skipped? Because my original tracking number still gives the same pointless message.
I believe it is a smart move... I am still very disapointed by the fact that I have not yet received my game but that I would be able to get it from shops that are located less than 50 miles from my home.
I haven´t received a tracking number even if I was indeed entitled one (international backer, deluxe edition). ITB was always quick replying my emails and polite on that. I am pretty sure what happened was a bad partnership choice that probably won´t happen again.
The sad part on it all is that apparently Sub Terra is a great game and I can´t play it yet! :-)
Hope you guys can get rid of this headache ASAP and keep doing what you do best - making good games.
Best of luck!
All I have to say is "I want my game!" I'm one of the 140 US backers who's game somehow "slipped through the cracks" and didn't even get shipped. That's all for now.
Somewhat agree with @Martin. All the positive backers are focusing on the delay not being too bad. You are right the delay was not too bad for those who have already got their game. But ITB also cancelled SG's with no warning and very little communication about it way after the fact. So there are more issues than just a short delay for most backers and a longer delay for backers still waiting. Again, for me it all comes down to communication or the lack of it. Just because they sent out updates doesn't mean they were actually saying anything or addressing the actual issues. I don't hate ITB and they are not the worst, but they do need to work on their communication. Canceling Newspeak for now is a step in the right direction, but as someone else said was this move for the backers or because Newspeak was way underperforming and they need to make more money off of it? Either way it was a smart move, but we will never know the true motive for it.
So because that other Kickstarter is even worse, that means everything ITB have done is actually good?
No, that's not how things work.
You seem to have only backed a handful of gaming Kickstarter projects, so I understand how your perspective could be skewed by one bad experience but, trust me, that vast majority of projects do far far better than Subterra at avoiding problems and communicating about problems before backers find out about them when their packages arrive.
As for you never backing Statecraft. I guess ignorance is bliss, right?
ITB are doing everything to resolve all outstanding issues?
So when are they going to send us our collector's boxes with the lining and plaques, as were promised when we pledged?
Oh? They're not going to do that?
I guess they aren't addressing all the outstanding issues then...
You know what's absurd about this. ITB is constantly admitting their mistakes and apologising, and I get to the point of almost forging them for their multitude of mistakes. Never trusting them again, but almost forgiving them.
And then along come a whole load of people who are wilfully ignoring all the things ITB have done and, I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as hell know it gets me all angry with ITB again.
Guys, just leave it along, ITB have made huge numbers of mistakes and _they admit that_ you all coming along and pretending the mistakes never happened _doesn't help them_.
And you may seem like you're the majority in the comments, but the way the NewSpeak campaign went proves that most people are very disappointed with ITB right now.
While I appreciate that there are backers who feel letdown by their experience with backing SubTerra (I'm not familiar with Statecraft), I'm not one of them. This may be because I am one of the 1000s who backed John Green and DFTBA Games' Wizard School and that sh*tfest has left me with much higher tolerance levels. Seriously - if you want to see how bad the communication and delays can be, go check out that nightmare of a campaign continues to be. It was meant to be delivered June 2016... and we are all still waiting for our pledges to be completely fulfilled. So, the fact that I got my Sub Terra in mid-January 2018 instead of November 2017, is not something I'm ever going to complain about. The ITB team have sent updates each month and, with this latest response to all the outcry from disappointed backers, they've shown that they are open to the feedback and taking it on board.
So, yeah, for me, this has been a really positive Kickstarter experience.
I was fortunate enough to get my copy of Sub Terra around the time it was originally promised. Have played it a few times since and very much enjoyed it.
Sad to hear there are still delivery delays for some backers and that there were problems with some of the stretch goals. ITB seem to have been very unfortunate with manufacturing/shipping/distribution (though this is by no means uncommon with KS projects, even for much bigger and more established companies) - this must be very frustrating for all concerned. I know the folks at ITB and am confident that they're doing all they can to resolve the remaining issues, and that they will do their best to learn from what has gone wrong. I hope that everyone gets their games soon so that they can enjoy playing them and so that ITB can get back to making great games.
I've been away and didn't get a chance to back Newspeak before the campaign was cancelled/postponed, but am looking forward to playing what looks like it will be a fun and innovative game.
I think this is sensible and will be appreciated
As a company who relies on your backers for your projects to run your survival in the market very much relies on offering a fair service
Many promises have been made that could not be followed through on, and starting a new campaign when the last had not been resolved is very much twisting the knife in further
Well done on making what I am sure is a very difficukt and costly decision
Delays are to be expected with Kickstarters and generally preferred to ensure quality and to receive exactly what was stated in the campaign and what people pledged for. But, the end product of Sub Terra had mistakes, oversights, inconsistencies and stretch goals dropped (without warning) to make deadlines, which should have been flexible. But, the replacement pack will fix some of these issues, but not all. Additionally, selling it at conventions (was stated in the "fine print") 6 months before KS backers received their pledges left a sour taste for many backers.
However, I must say Sub Terra is a solid game. I really enjoy playing it, love the gameplay (designed by Tim Pinder), components and artwork.
This is definitely a step in the right direction. I look forward to reading the post-mortem and changes you are going to implement.
Because everyone seems to be fixating on the delays, @Jill nailed the worst of the issues so I will quote her post from the main comments...
I honestly couldn't care less about the delays.
What I do care about:
- The fact that ITB undermined most of my concerns in our conversations
- Cancelled many promised stretch goals, most without consultation or even prior communication
- Reduced the value of the collector's edition substantially without any recompense to collector backers
- Fudged up names in the rulebook and will not provide an updated physical rulebook
- Refused to provide a refund even when requested before shipping
To me, these are glaring issues that give me a lot of pause about ITB.
I hear you Leigh but imagine the "twitch" for those of us still waiting while it has been in quite a few stores for a while now
I love how these comments are full of people acting like a delay was the only thing that ITB has done wrong...
I'll admit I felt a twitch when I saw it was going to retail and I might not have received mine first. Then it arrived and all was forgiven, because the game was so much fun. Bear with them folks. The game makes up for the wait.
I am in the middle. I didn't follow the ST campaign too closely, but read all the updates. I just found there to be a lack of good, clear communication. For example, SG's were removed from the final product, but barely mentioned anywhere and way after the fact. I didn't get Statecraft so I can't comment on that campaign. Delays are a part of KS and expected. ITB just needs to work on having good, clear, and timely communication. Communication goes a long way in the KS community.
Guys, we're not complaining about delays but the fact that in some places shops were selling the bloody things while a shit load of backers are still waiting for their product. The delay is just fine.
Hmm... there was a delay? I honestly didn't realize it. I guess after waiting on some of the projects I've backed, this seemed like it came pretty fast.
I'm surprised to read this. I don't understand why do people complain a lot about delay... come on guys, we are on KS, there are always months of delay for delivery.
I don't think the delivery of the game has been outside of the normal kickstarter expectations. I think there has been some poor management decisions regarding the feelings of the customer - selling games before backers received copies was a major own goal. The product looks good - haven't played it yet - but the reviews look great. I opened my box tonight and some of my miniatures are mis-formed - one has an arm missing! Are we all receiving replacements or what is the plan?
I think most backers here are just nitpicking. Sure I received mine late by a month but that's Kickstarter. It's not a pre ordering system. People need to understand that the money they give is an investment with the likely hood that delays and issues happen.
Designing a new game doesn't affect shipping.
I think this is the right call.
Also, thank you for insisting that DES take responsibility for losing track of those 140 orders and fulfill them ASAP, as opposed to them having to be returned to GQ. Rising Sun fulfillment can wait a day or two while they fix their blatant mistake.
That's a very interesting way to proceed and quite a surprise to be honest. I personally wouldn't have backed your new project because, even though I think most things are forgettable on Kickstarter, but when shops are receiving and selling the products before the backers I think it kinda cross the line and I definitely make a note not to ever support the creator again.
In saying that, best of luck of the others
@ITB- I personally had no complaints about your campaign and thought you were responsive to my communication. 90% of KS campaigns I backed have been late relative to the original estimate. My understanding has been that it is just that...an “estimate”..as there are so many unknowns and uncertainties along the way. Thanks for the update and the consideration you’ve shown to your backers. I wish you all the best moving forward.
Call me skeptical or cynical, but I feel they only cancelled it because they realized they weren’t gonna get funded or if successful not the amount they hoped for. If they were funded right away with a steady stream of backers I think they would not care about grievances of past campaigns and would have let it ride until the end.
Now they can act like they are doing everyone a favor for doing what they should have done in the first place (finish dealing with previous KS problems first).
@Matthew Knittel, you summed up my opinions perfectly. The only difference, it sounds like, is you've gotten your game and I haven't. I too expect delays, and am perfectly fine with them. But the over-promising and continued delays are what ruined this for me. Being told 4 months ago that my game was shipping, and to still not have my game, is beyond frustrating.
@Luke, the box size was great! Rivaled KDM! hehe....
Oh and the one thing that really doesn‘t feel right is to be still waiting on your deluxe edition while you can go to amazon an have it „in stock, sold by ITB, delivered by amazon“. Well, at least I can be calm because amazon is not shipping to my country. (Hint: POTUS visited us the last 24 hours)
I just want to thank everyone involved in this project. I received my game without any issues or problems at all; in fact the game arrived a day early. I know that in these situations the loudest voices are going to be the angry ones, so I feel compelled to be one of the positive voices on here. It's unfortunate that not everyone had the same experience as I did, but the creators do deserve to be commended when things go right.
I generally don’t expect Kickstarter projects to be delivered on their original timeline. Stretch goals, unforeseen complications and life just make it challenging sometimes. I’m fine with that so long as there is clear communication and updates on what’s going on. I too am still waiting for my game (Canada).
I do appreciate the decision to hold off on the new project till you are full done fulfilling this one. I had another game I backed fail entirely because they immediately did an a second Kickstarter to add miniatures to the game and put all their energy and time and money into the minis, which were originally just a stretch goal, and I got the minis but never the main game cause they ran out of money. Having been sorely burned in the past I appreciate you taking the time to focus on this project and see it through before diving into the next and risking it distracting you from this.
I was one of the lucky ones, the game (subterra, less we speak of statecraft the better) got delivered well within an acceptable time frame. I was slightly miffed at selling the game at conventions early but it was stated, so that's fair enough.
But being a deluxe edition backer I do feel burnt, stretch goals got ignored and parts felt very rushed with little quality control (and the deluxe box size was silly).
But I approve and appreciate delaying your next project. Take stock, see the flaws in your previous projects and work out how to improve them.
Newspeak just didn't appeal to me, but in the future would be happy to back the right project. Really enjoy Sub Terra, you just needed to be more open with what was going on, people don't appreciate finding out things are missing or got changed through 3rd parties or when it arrives...
I received my copy of Sub Terra and played it. It is a fantastic game.
I am thrilled to hear you are listening to the people who have not yet received your game and putting yourself in the crosshairs until it is right.
Thank you for being awesome.
I have been waiting for 2 months since the last email from Paul. So far no tracking, no game and no news. I asked for an address change back then.
I knew I should have grabbed a copy from your stand at Essen, ha ha.
Hope to get my Sub Terra collectors someday. Please help !!
I'm gonna be honest, guys. I have no clue what you're talking about. I thought you guys ran a fine campaign. I have no complaints. Did it come out later than anticipated? Yes. But I can't fault you for being optimistic. I have no clue why people are saying "You should rebrand yourselves and start over." Sheesh. I was excited for Sub Terra, and I enjoy it now. I realize it sucks when you're one of the last ones to get a product: I've been there on other Kickstarters. But it's virtually impossible to deliver everything at once. So, all that to say, I don't get it. I've had games delayed for over a year, and you certainly were nowhere close to that. I think you guys did fine, and I don't think you deserve the bad press. Maybe I missed something HUGE, but being as I read every update I kind of doubt it. Just my two cents.
FWIW, I have certainly counted myself among the grumblers over the course of this campaign, but I've been impressed with the changes you've implemented so far. Newspeak didn't really jump out at me as something that fits my tastes, but I'd certainly be willing to back ITB again. I don't think I would have said that in November or early December.
Seems like MOST of the troubles are from their choice in handler/shipper rather than the company themselves.
I am way more disappointed in GamesQuest handling of SubTerra than ITB. I recieved my game in very early December, but without my Minis. ITB responded immediately. Sent it to GQ to get the mistake corrected. GQ said they can't give me a tracking number(wtf?), but my minions would be there in 15 to 20 days. 24 days later they arrived... I would not use GQ again if it was my decision.
And if you run 2 campaigns and are planning to consolidate delivery, making the first campaign backers wait for the second campaign delivery, at least consolidate shipping costs instead of ripping off the poor bastards... Been there. Oh also it might be a good idea not selling your games in conventions before the backers get their copies, doing that is usually considered backstabbing... Which is something you are guilty of...
Just a follow up. This is what I know about the incoming delivery:
PRODUCT: EXPRESS WORLDWIDE NON DOC
CONTENTS: BOARD GAME
I really don‘t like what GAmeQuest is doing here. And I don‘t like the fact that Sub Terra Deluxe Edition probably weights more than 1.73 - so kinda sure it’s still not Sub Terra.