by Inside the Box Board Games
@BlackGauntlet is wise. If you see @BlackGauntlet tell you to do something it's best to just do it.
Superbackers are some of the most forgiving people on Kickstarter because they've seen, experienced and still returned to back some of the potentially worst KS projects ever to give creators a chance to be a commercial success.
If you see one giving you advice, it's helpful to consider their comment as an option.
If you see 2 or 3 of them saying similar stuff, it may be rather important.
If you see many of them telling you the same thing, heed their counsel or risk never coming back here on KS in the future.
As ITB is currently attending Airecon (March 10-12), they are probably extremely busy demoing games, having meetings, chatting to gamers - generally doing a variety of promotional work for Sub Terra and their other existing and upcoming titles. So Peter's explanatory comment below might be re-posted in Update form at some point early next week when they're back in London.
Make update for your last comment. I am dissatisfied if you put it only as comment. I will not deem the policy revoked if you did not put it as an update. Revoking, applying, informing, and of course apologising, those all are done by using comments? Hell no. Make an update.
Echoing the calls to post that last comment as an update. You still have time to turn this thing around, and posting that update will show people how committed you are to listening to your backers and getting things right. It'll help a lot.
@ITB, Yes, please post another update that clearly says you goofed, you are dropping the forfeiture policy, and that rewards will be shipping at or very near the expo time frame. And please do it quick, you are running out of time.
@ITB - it might be worth re-posting that last comment as a standalone update. I think it addresses many backers' concerns, but will soon be lost in the comments.
I believe an often-quoted golden rule for customer complaints is something like for every 1 vocally displeased customer, 9 are silently angry - and those not writing comments may not be checking them either. Kickstarter communities can quickly flip toxic around a small subset of disgruntled backers, and it's never good to see that happen -- especially when the project creators ARE addressing issues!
Much appreciated update on things. Makes me feel much better that if you have them at the expo then that also means backers shipments will be around the corner. The way it was worded first made it sound like UK expo copies were being prioritized then backers would be taken care of later down the road then things are done.
If I have read this right that you having them at the expo means that they will have also been shipped to backers (but not necessarily received) this is cool, however you will lose a lot of reputation if you sell at UKGE and backer rewards haven't shipped , especially for people who have only backed the core set.
very cool visual aid - however, .. how do you break something so structured up into a tile format? Y'all engineers are phenomenal.
I'm in the camp that wasn't too impressed by the short deadline and forced forfeiture but I am happy that you realised exactly how much we didn't like it, apologised and made changes.
It takes a big man to admit their errors and I respect you for that.
I'm also happy that you explained your reasonings behind why you'll be selling at the UK Games Expo and why pick up isn't an option. Being open with the backers gets you much more support than saying "no, now deal with it".
Now enough talk about that stuff, lets focus on how cool the game is and why we backed it in the first place.
There's a lot of stuff here to clarify so please bear with me!
1. We always intended (if possible) to get games to the UK Games Expo (as stated in the Freight and Shipping section on the campaign page), however, for us to do that we need to air freight an advance shipment to the UK, which is super expensive (we aren't able to do this with pledge shipping). We'll be selling these at the Expo at higher prices than combined pledge+shipping and without any of the Kickstarter exclusives.
2. We're not able to administrate a pledge collection at the Expo as there's a high likelihood we won't have more than just the core set there! (It's also a complete nightmare to administrate as stated in earlier updates)
3. The November date listed on the pledge levels is the ***Worst Case Scenario***, if we do in fact manage to get stuff (in all likelihood just a chunk of core sets), to the Expo in June, that means we're ready to ship (or have already shipped) around the world via ocean freight, meaning everyone should be getting their rewards around Jun/July anyway (that's 4-5 months ahead of schedule!)
4. The pledge manager deadline/donation thing was intended as a way to encourage backers to complete their surveys early, so that we could get everyone their stuff nice and quick. We didn't think it was fair for us to profit from this so we said that we'd donate those games to libraries or charities. To explain why we did this in the first place, we wanted to make sure we got the numbers right on production so that we make sure we get the right amount printed. We were concerned that if people got loads of extra preorders and add-ons then we'd be in a position where we had to order an entire new print run straight away, which would be prohibitively expensive over doing it all in the first run. That said - we didn't anticipate people's feelings in regard to this, coupled with the short deadline. We made a mistake, we're sorry for that. We're now revoking the donation policy. We hope that the extended deadline of 4 weeks to complete the survey and this change puts your confidence back in us. We're committed to ensuring a good service to our backers, and we'll do what we can to change plans where we get them wrong.
5. Anyone who was overcharged on the pledge manager due to rogue shipping charges - you will be given a full refund for that amount, let me know on email@example.com if this affected you.
6. If you're a retail, group buy, translator, competition winner or other 'special' backer - we're processing your pledge manually, so hold tight!
7. Signed art prints for 48 hour backers won't be showing up yet, as we're figuring out the best way to import all that data into the system, but they'll be there eventually :)
If anyone has any more questions or concerns, let me know on firstname.lastname@example.org or chuck me a message on Kickstarter, as that's the easiest way for me to get a response to you!
For everyone complaining about them selling at the Expo on the bottom of the campaign page it says this.
FREIGHT & SHIPPING:
We're working with a specially honed team of fulfillment and shipping experts, in Hong Kong, Shanghai, the UK and elsewhere to ensure that we can offer leading backer shipping rates as well as deliver you your games speedily and in good condition. We're aiming to get a chunk of games once manufactured to the UK Games Expo in June, so we're aiming to get shipping on the go before then. November is our worst case scenario. We may obviously sell copies of the game at the UKGE before some backers get their copy elsewhere in the world. We're hoping that this doesn't happen but we want to be upfront, we can't afford as a small publisher to not take that opportunity.
So they were upfront about selling the game at the expo.
Second this is not retail that they will be selling at but a Expo.
I am okay with you selling the game early at the convention because you mentioned that before.
I am worried about the issue you face if you donate people's Kickstarter pledges. Some individuals don't know English very well so might not be aware of filling out the pledge manager. Also would it not be against Kickstarter policy to not provide people's pledges. If a person does not reach out after a year of the majority of the games being delivered then donate.
In 48 hours you are close to ruining the fantastic reputation you built up in the 3-4 week KS campaign (and before it). I backed you as you are a UK company and I really want the UK gaming industry to grow, but you are wrecking what you achieved
Act now and you still have time to save your rep. What cold you do
1) Indicated when KS deliveries will be. If its near UKEXPO dates that might be OK for some
2) Offer UKEXPO pick up.
3) Remove the fill in the PM or lose your monies threat. You have no need to do this. Make their games, if they never complete the PM before the campaign completes delivery, you have a free game to sell.
I'm with Steve Mellors on this. Not happy about the product going on sale at UK Games Expo possibly 5 months before we as backers will get it. Appreciate not everyone could have, but I could pick up a copy at UK Games Expo and save myself the shipping costs if I hadn't already paid them :(
Also not a fan of the short timeframe on the pledge manager, even 4 weeks is still a little short and the penalty for not completing on time is rather harsh.
If I could back out now I would
I am not happy that we fund all the development and production costs so you can sell the game at the UK games expo before we receive our products! This is very poor as an investor (which is what we are) I would have expected a better experience. It seems that as a small company you want to make more money from your game at the cost of those who believed you were there for them. Had I known this at the beginning I would not have backed this project. Can we get a refund as this is not what was agreed.
Nice to hear that the plastic tokens will look cool, but is here any more news on whether you'll be including regular punch board as well? I'd still rather have cardboard over hard plastic in most cases.
cool ill have extra cash for more stuff!!!
Taiwan is still in "the rest of the world".
for those having issues with PM, emails, etc/ contact ITB via direct message . (you can click on their name above next to "created by", then click the send a messge (or contact me.. can't remember exact wording).
I agree to Paul Cooper. It's okay if you want us to fill the Pledge Manager asap, but it will be unfair if you give such penalty that there will be no refund without you do the same to your timeline. What about if you get late then we get the game for free? It's really the same thing as your penalty that you impose to the backers, if you see it to my perspective as backers.
Update I have 6£ after the shipping fix...
And I would also HIGHLY suggest NOT donating their pledged items right away. Since it seems you're producing their reward regardless maybe hold them for a few months.
They can understand receiving their pledge late because of an error but I would become a crusader against a company that did that to me.
So if we do not fill out the Pledge Manager within the deadline and lose our pledges with NO REFUND, what will happen to Inside the Box Games if you miss your promised delivery date?
Fairs fair. If we have to be subjected to such a harsh penalty for missing the deadline you set for us, so should you.
So what would be a comparable penalty for ITB if you deliver late? What consequences should you face?
Please feel free to share your thoughts.
@ITB, I have problem same as Alexandre Mallet, didn't receive an email. I'm retailer pledge.
Also wanted to add a couple of thoughts:
1. You've said you planned a short pledge manager period in order to meet your obligations to your backers, but your most fundamental obligation to backers is not the timeline; it's getting them what they backed. If you're opting not to get them what you promised them when there's no reason you couldn't work out a way to do otherwise, you are, in fact, not meeting your core obligation.
2. If your project plan requires a highly likely fail point, it's a bad project plan and should be reworked. I know you've said you believe you've done everything you can to inform people of the timeline and forfeiture issue (I don't think that's true, but let's set that aside for a moment), but that's really beside the point. A KS timeline that requires a hard 2-week pledge manager window is a bad timeline. It is not a thing you should be doing. Period. Pledge managers have bugs. Emails go missing. People go offline for periods of time (vacation/holiday, etc.). These are all expected obstacles, so there's no good reason for not accounting for them and planning your timeline accordingly.
I say these things not to be an asshole, but in the hopes that you will absorb this lesson and a) rethink your apocalyptically bad PR decision to forfeit backers' pledges, and b) not repeat these errors in any future campaigns, if you're lucky enough to have them. And I don't assume the latter at this point. I'm not sure you realize yet how bad this might end up being.
You guys have a good thing going here. You're obviously talented designers, and I'm still excited to see what you come up with, but holy hell... please don't shoot your feet off before you even get out of the starting gate.
I tried 2 times to have a re-invite pledge manager and still did not received it. What should I do next?
If its the stretch goals that are the problem and all the kickstarter extras then I am curious why a decision upfront could not have been made to split shipments so people can have their games potentially. Yes it would be Increased shipping cost and more boxes etc. but that is just a huge gap from early June to November. So it would be nice to know a more approximate date if you are truly ahead of schedule since for kickstarter games it is pretty rare I feel like.
What is the projected ship date then for backers if you are able to start selling games in June!? That is a very big difference in time. I understand you want to grow but as backers we put our money upfront so that you can make the game in the first place. I would understand if the event was like a few weeks before the game ships to backers but now people who didn't back will have copies months in advance.
You NEED to address the pledge forfeiture problem. You are running the risk of getting sued in a few month's time. That's not the way to start up a strong business.
The extra two weeks for the pledge manager is the minimum of what you should be doing. And for god's sake, if you are fortunate enough to get another project funded on Kickstarter in the future, don't ever do a 2-week pledge manager again. It's not even difficult to immediately come up with several reasons why someone would be unable to complete a pledge manager in that amount of time.
I paid 14£ more for extra core and horror minis. Guessing you can do a pass over and refund for those who have? Or could we allocate those funds elsewhere?
Awesome that you listened and extended the deadline :D
Not so awesome that the backers are not the first to get it... But I understand your choice :)
The extra two weeks is appreciated, but the real problem is revoking backer's pledges. Do you still intend to do that?
I paid my survey for 2 extra core. I have $10 overpaid. Please advise me...