by Inside the Box Board Games
Hi. I need to hange my address. I cant log into the plesge manager. Please help?
Two weeks time and then you just don't deliver and keep the money? Kinda jerk move on your part, Inside the Box Board Games.
If you fail to deliver in November, what should we expect to compensate?
So if we do not fill out the Pledge Manager within the two week deadline and lose our pledges with NO REFUND, what will happen to Inside the Box Games if you miss your promised delivery date?
Fairs fair. If we have to be subjected to such a harsh penalty for missing the deadline you set for us, so should you.
So what would be a comparable penalty for ITB if you deliver late? What consequences should you face?
Please feel free to share your thoughts.
Hey Guys, I'm still excited about this game (added on the expansion and horror minis just now), but my enthusiasm is definitely diminished by the way things have been handled. I know it's a lot of work and pressure to produce high quality games. The way you communicate with backers is paramount. Language such as, "If you fail to fill in this information on time, your pledge will be revoked with no refund..." is more what I expect from bill collectors when I am delinquent in payment. The problem with emails not showing up and defective links just made things worse.
I expect you will recover from this blow to your reputation and ameliorate the ill-will generated, and learn from the mistakes made. I hope so--you have a great product.
Hell if they miss the deadline then just hold their games until after everyone else's games have shipped. That would be more fair then just saying "Hey thanks for spending probably $100 or more on our project, what's that? You were away on a business trip and missed our deadline? Aww tough, thanks for the money sucker!"
While I just finished my survey. I know how easy it is to miss a survey or just to not be on kickstarter for a few weeks at a time. The no refund thing with this 2 week only bs is liable to get your asses sued. If they miss your dumb deadline then just refund their pledges that's it. There was no warning of this crap when we signed up so you dropping this harsh bomb on the backers is completely unjustified, just cause you'll miss some big conventions? Tough, if it happens, you'll live.
I am expressing the same sentiment as others ( @Ethan, Yaron, PlanBee, & Paul) have stated. The penalty for not completing the pledge manager in two weeks is severe.
From an observers perspective, if fulfilling pledges on time is the reasoning behind such a short survey time then there are seemingly more diplomatic ways of handling late surveys (as expressed in previous comments).
True this penalty will not directly affect me, however, that doesn't mean it won't negatively affect others. The proposed way of handling incomplete surveys is harsh and will likely alienate many. Because of this, I believe a healthy discourse about the repercussions of ITB's forfeiture policy is warranted.
I will add this here as well ... didn't think about this when i posted the comment in the project directly ...
The link in the Update does not work properly. It will open
There must have gotten a blank in there at the end.
I agree with you. Bear in mind you had nearly 1000 new pledges in the last day. It would be a real shame for IT to wreck what has become a really strong reputation.
If you want to be draconian, state that anyone pledging later than 2 weeks can expect a delayed delivery, as you will focus on those that completed the PM first.
It's not a problem for me but don't screw the good vibe you have build up here.
Thanks for the reminder e-mail as the pledge manager went to my spam/junk folder.
@ITB : I'm a retailer backed on "No reward pledge", so that I should wait for a week then you will contact me back, right?
@ITB Games: I didn't see any mention about the revocations on your facebook, twitter or instagram pages.
@ITB Games: I think you're missing the biggest point -- it is not necessary to forfeit people's pledges. You're creating the project anyway, right? Producing the game, the minis, the books? So create them, and give folks the chance to give you their address until a couple weeks before you absolutely have to have them. Then for those that didn't get their address filled in you have their rewards shipped to you, you hold them for a little while, you have them pay any extra shipping charges needed when they finally get in contact with you, and we're all good. If they don't contact you after a reasonable time then you can say they forfeit.
But revoking pledges now? 30 weeks before shipping? That's just bad karma.
@Richard - that's odd, email us on email@example.com with some more details and we'll see if we can fix it for you :)
@Diorama, promo tile, 3d token update will be within the next few days.
@Yaron thank you for expressing your concerns - we do completely appreciate that this isn't necessarily what backers expect, though it is necessary to deliver on what we've promised backers. We've now sent emails to every backer through the PledgeManager system, through Kickstarter updates, put this information in the comments section, notified followers through facebook, twitter and instagram of the shop/manager being live, as well as sent every backer a message through Kickstarter. We'll continue to do this throughout the 2-week period. We absolutely don't want people to miss out on their pledges - but we are committed to a fast turnaround. I do however appreciate that some backers don't necessarily read all the updates (I don't for every project I back!) but we're doing everything we can to notify backers.
Fill it out now or risk losing your pledge to charity.
You can always unlock the Pledge Manager before the 2 weeks are up to add the diorama, if they ever show an image of it.
@Inside the Box Board Games when is the next update you mentioned that's going to include the diorama? I was thinking about adding it but am worried about waiting too long into the short 2 weeks you gave us to fill out the pledge managers or lose our pledges...
I don't know if others are having this issue but I thought I'd bring it up. I am moving to Japan the week after the deadline and had selected the shipping for Japan. However I am needing to change the address for shipping. I am having it sent to my family in the US. There is a balance of 1 GBP as a result of the shipping change. When I press the button to pay nothing happens so I am unable to pay the difference for shipping.
@Russonc - The reason I'm talking about it in the comments here is because it isn't a problem for me. The people it's a problem for are mostly ones that *didn't notice* the problem, so of course won't be talking about it to anyone right now. They'll wait until later when they check what is the status of the project and suddenly discover they made a nice donation without their consent, and then start yelling.
I'm not writing this here to have ITB help me personally. I'm writing this here to help ITB realize a lot of their backers could have a problem with what they're doing. The problem isn't "I won't be able to fill the survey in two weeks" (I already did), or even "many people will need more than two weeks to fill the survey". The problem is "many people won't realize that they only have short two weeks to fill the survey" combined with "many people won't realize that not filling the survey in the short time means automatically donating their rewards away". So of course none of the relevant people will send email to ITB during the two weeks to ask for individual extensions, that's not the point.
You're right that this was mentioned casually in a short phrase, with no exact timelime, inside a very long and info-loaded update #17. That's... not the way to ensure 6600 backers notice something important.
Again, many backers don't thoroughly read the info in all updates. Most don't do more than roughly skim updates, and as a short paragraph in a large update this would have been very very easily lost. Very many backers don't bother reading updates if there isn't anything especially important to them in the title, and the title of that one wasn't it (because, again, this point wasn't a major part of it, but a small side notice).
Heck, there are plenty of backers (though not the majority) who don't even read updates at all, KS does allow to not subscribe for project updates, there are backers that don't want all the info are are happy to just wait until they get a survey to fill.
As for comments... The very large majority of backers don't read the comments, especially for projects (like this) that have a lot of them. It requires a lot of time and attention, and a lot of backers don't care enough with each individual project to engage and invest the time.
The people who interact on the comments are very active, and they're incredibly important to projects, but they're also a minority.
Assuming you yourself do follow the comments on all of the projects you backed, did you really not notice that new people keep popping in with sometimes the exact same questions and misunderstandings over and over and over again? This is because most people who see thousands of comments are not going to bother reading through all of them, they'll ask/mention what they want, wait a very short time to see a response, and then will disengage again.
Mission complete on my end! Waiting on you now to fulfill my wildest spelunking dreams...
any pics on Sub Terra Diorama The Limited Edition Sub Terra Miniatures Diorama Stand? i would like to see it
(@Yaron Davidson - reading that back now sounds a bit more harsh than I intended.... my main message would be for anyone having issues after a day or two to contact ITB with a direct message).
@Yaron Davidson; I have seen shorter PMs (just fyi... I agree it is one of the shorter ones though). ITB mentioned there would be a short PM many times during the campaign (I'm surprised you missed it but (more in comments maybe than updates which is probably your point, although they hinted at a short PM 2 updates ago). First timers might be forgiven ignoring emails for KS projects but most should be expecting it.
If you can't complete it in 2 weeks, send ITB a private message but don't make a problem in the comments about it (when it doesn't seem to be a problem for you).
email received, PM completed.. now just time to grab a beer and wait by the mailbox for my game!
You know that new box are is great. It would be cool to get a box cover of just the art with nothing on it. Not sure if that is possible.
Thanks so much for being so quick and active with this campaign! I really appreciate all the communication during and post-campaign.
Received my email and confirmed my pledge. Really looking forward to being able to play this game.
@Inside The Box - What do you mean by "We were up front about this during the campaign" ? There is no large obvious warning, that people who won't fill surveys during an unusually short duration won't get their rewards, at the top of the project page.
Actually there isn't one anywhere on the campaign page.
Actually there isn't one even in the "Risks and challenges" section, and I want to believe you agree that not getting the reward (or even partial refund), due to simply not filling a survey within the first two weeks, is a genuine risk for backers.
Is there one in any update? A quick email search on "two weeks" didn't find anything (though I wasn't an early backer so I didn't get all of them) like that. Surely you don't think that all backers read the details of all updates? If you do, that is very wrong, a lot of backers don't do more than browse/glance-at updates based on titles, and even not that for old/previous update if they're not explicitly looking for something.
And, again, not only is the two weeks limit unusual, and so not expected by most backers, but it's also unusual not to offer at least a partial refund (e.g. minus the KS/processing fees, since you don't need to lose money over it) for backers that do completely ignore the surveys long-term.
It is good to know that you will be actively reminding users.
No email here either.
Only two weeks to respond.
And the punishment for missing the deadline (that your pledge will be given away to charity) is the harshest one I've ever seen on KS.
@Ryan - yes don't worry, I'm processing that manually :)
Does the PM include the 48 hour flash print?
An additional �
I was surprised that a additional core game doubles the shipping costs, but otherwise everything is fine.
@Stuart - that's still possible, you just need to add that in the add-ons section :)
@Yaron - we were up front about this during the campaign, and have sent all the emails out tonight, and will send reminders through all of our channels every few days to ensure everyone gets their stuff :)
I was hoping for the option to add one expansion of your choice, which was an option in the original Kickstarter
Yay - added the monster minis. I'll just sit here and watch this calendar.
@Inside The Box - You do realize it's problematical when the update (which is sent by email to many/most backers) explicitly states "Everyone has been sent a link via email", when in fact the links haven't yet been sent to all backers, right? Especially when the update practically demands extreme urgency...
Nothing to do about this now, of course, but please do consider your timing and phrasing better next time.
Also, while your reasoning for the two weeks limit are somewhat understandable, this is a substantially shorter time period than for the overwhelming majority (or even all?) of KS surveys. There *will* be people who won't bother to read the update if they already see the survey/PM email, and there *will* be people who will wait a few weeks to fill the survey.
Coupling a much shorter time than most people would expect, together with an extremely hardline "and then we just take your money and don't give you anything", is... bad. Really bad. If you can't arrange for a secondary late range of shipments, at least make it very very very clear upfront that you'll personally try to actively contact all backers that won't fill the survey during the first week.
I for one and very happy with the process so far, and can't wait to get my hands on this game. IBB Games, keep up the good work! Shaping up to be a top 2017 pick for me!
Two weeks to upgrade one's pledge is fine.
Two weeks and you keep our money and we get nothing? That's crappy.
My bank account curses you, Sub Terra. Decided to up my pledge to the Collector's edition.
Unfortunately I missed the 30 minute window on that one - but should be ok, most of the emails are through now and the last few hundred are on their way!
Entirely possible I missed it somewhere in the updates, but what exactly is the diorama add-on?
@Inside the Box - I think there's a short time where you can correct the link in the Update. Because nobody reads the comments :^)
In the next update, we'll have images on the 3d tokens, the 1st player token and the Diorama - all are fully sculpted now!
@Tan - check the link below if you're not geting through, and it's possible the email hasn't reached your inbox yet.
We were up front about the timeline, to ensure that not only every backer got their pledge, but that they got it far quicker than normal.
Whilst we are on the subject of timeliness. 3 weeks since the campaign ended, and as far as I am aware we have yet to see designs for the following.
1) The 1st player token
2) The diorama (beyond a brief sketch
3) The UV Light
4) The 3D tokens
Some of these are add ons, where we are expected to pledge in the next 2 weeks. Others are part of the Collectors edition, which again for me at least would be an upgrade.
No email, and Pledge Manager isn't working at giving me a new email just like everyone else. This is ridiculous. the two week deadline reflects a serious lack of commitment to making sure the backers get what they paid for.
22nd of March... Damn. If it had been the 24th i could have increased my pledge. (crying now)
...and it works fine...
The 'what if I don't see my email' link is broken
Heres the proper one: https://itb.pledgemanager.com/projects/sub-terra-a-cooperative-survival-horror-game-for-1
As @Tim said, just remove the trailing space from the link and it world fine.
Hey everyone! Don't worry if your email hasn't come through right away, it's taking a little time to send them all out!
@timeline If we don't make sure we know the numbers early on - it wil massively delay our schedule and may mean we end up missing some of the biggest conventions, which we can't afford to. We understand people are used to several weeks or even months to complete this information, but we're planning on making this a seriously quick turnaround, so hope that it's worth people doing it swiftly!