by inXile entertainment
Take your time! Make it in your vision, and don't release it until you're very happy with it!
No. Don't take your time. Crunch. Burn the midnight oil if you have to. 3 months puts you at the 2 year mark. That's MORE than sufficient for a game of this size and quality to be delivered. Get it out by then or give me a refund. I an so done with crowdfunding.
This is getting ridiculous, especially considering there are tons of people playing the game already who didn't back it to start. Now you want us to pay MORE money to beta test. Truly, crazy.
@Turk - You're 100% wrong. First off, the beta backers already got their beta. Second, InXile has opened up beta to those who didn't even back it in the first place (as has been mentioned before). At this point, there's no good reason for InXile to not release it to all backers free of charge (shame on Brian and InXile to ask for MORE money from those that already backed it...talk about ungrateful).
I have mixed feelings about all of this. On one hand, I want InXile to take their time and release the best product they can. On the other hand, this delay has really gone on long enough. It is starting to get silly. They could really solve this problem and appease a lot of folks by releasing the beta to all backers.
What is this phenomenon on Kickstarter.
There's a clearly labelled 'Get access to the Beta' tier; people don't back that tier; said people are then dumbfounded and aghast that they *Gasp* don't have access to the beta... -_-
As for the steam availability for non-backers 'not being fair', did you lot skim over the last part of this update where they said all you cheap $15 or so backers will be able to add $10 for access? Again that's still mightily cheaper than the current steam $60 price for Early access if you do the math, a lot cheaper than what I paid for my Beta access, and more then what a lot of other Kickstarters offer. Just, wow. Can't believe people are complaining and this petty...
The unpolished, buggy, laggy-at-times initial build I played back when it first came out last year was a clear runner for 2014 GOTY in my eyes as a long time, old school fan of turn based RPG's and Fallout. Possibly still is, unless Pillars of Eternity indeed makes a 2014 release as they stated in the most recent update, then there'll be some competition ;)
I know. How crazy of us to think that we should be allowed access to a beta that has slipped its promised ship date numerous times. How crazy of us to think that we should be allowed access to a beta that is now being offered to whoever has a big pocketbook over us "cheap" backers who originally had faith and backed it 2 years ago without a screenshot or really anything beyond a basic idea. How crazy of us to think it's pretty ungrateful of Brian and InXile to ask for MORE money when we already gave them money two years ago. *Gasp* that's just so unreasonable and "petty".
With the way WL2 is going, I'd be absolutely shocked if Torment came out before 2016.
On the bright side, HOPEFULLY it will be out by the summer time. I can treat it as my reward for (hopefully) passing comprehensive exam in May for my doctoral program.
@all you guys asking for a free beta - I would be PISSED if they handed you the beta that I paid $20 for in the Tides of Numenara kickstarter. You paid to get it when it's released. Oct 2013 was an estimate....not a promise. It's software development guys where NOBODY makes their initial estimate (not promise). Also, complaining about Stream users getting it before backers.....ITS $60 for them. I paid $15 to back + $20 for a total of $35. You could have paid $15 + $10 for a total of $25 come Monday. How can you complain that somebody paying $60 gets access?!?!? I know you're disappointed but at least think it through logically....or just using simple math. InXile put a lot of thought into making sure that everybody got what they paid for (read some interviews where thy cover this very topic).
InXile has done an AMAZING job keeping us in the loop. You should back other projects where you beg for updates, see no progress, etc.
I was planning to buy a computer that can actually run this game. And it looks like I won't have to do that for a while. Which is fine by me. Take as much time as you want, and spend as much money as you can. I like getting a big bang for my buck, even if I have to wait. There's no shortage if things to occupy my time with while waiting. In fact, I'm currently wondering how I'm even going to have time to play the game when it's done. ;-)
I'm in no rush to play Wasteland 2 since I have plenty to occupy myself right now; however, I would still like to register the game on Steam so that I have one less Kickstarter project to keep track of. So I would say I position lean on releasing beta to all backer since you guys did in fact fell through on your promise; on top of that, neither the beta backer or the developers have anything to lose by offering access to beta - well, maybe except a sense of exclusivity.
It's 2014, why am I still looking at aliased shadows?
A good game that is late will always be better than a buggy,shoddy game released on-time, I've waited 15 years already. 3-6 more months will not kill me.
"Linux version and it will follow sometime after" sounds quite vague.
No point to participate in beta for Linux users at all...
1) take all the time you need, dont put out a date until you are comfortable with it
2) what dungeoncrawl said.
3) the eurogamer Interview was great
4) i read the novella and it was awesome!!!!
Please, take all the time that you need to get this game right.
I agree wholeheartedly with what dungeoncrawl said.
I am starting to regret having invested a substantial figure for a game that is blatantly snubbing the linux version. Carify me the following: should I receive the COLLECTOR'S EDITION PREMIUM BOXED VERSION without linux binaries inside?
> At the start of their campaign is the Middle Eastern culture inspired Zaharia, a unique project which offers a prototype for you to try before you decide on backing it.
I would point out this kickstarter. The devs are a young group of people, RPGs passionate and gamers that realle deserve to be funded. Check out their kickstarter and website for more info!
Now that the beta is available (for a fee) to backers that didn't initially choose the "proper" pledge, how about making it available to backers that have pledged enough for it, but gave their monies for a DRM-free game ?
That way we can stop lurking in the darkest corners of the intarwebz...
(Yes, it was announced early that the beta would be on the darn Steam. No, that still doesn't make it "right" for the rest of us.)
Good to hear that not only is WL2 is on track for a 2014 release but that everything sounds very, very solid.
Also kudos to President inXile for supporting only KS campaigns; followed his advice, looked at Zaharia and decided to back it. Mr. Fargo is definitely still kicking it forward!
Please take your time and make this game awesome. I did not pledge for a beta and I will not die because of the delay. It sais "estimated" not "promised", by the way. Thanks for the possibillity to gain beta access for just 10 bucks, but I want the finished game. The Screenshots look nice and I'm looking forward to play the game ... when it's done. :)
I can't understand why people are complaining because of a beta. its incomplete and with lots of bugs. i prefer waiting and play a complete game than ruin my first experience.
The delay of the game for 8 months its understandable. they received tree times more money for the game, and will have at least 60 hours.
For the people waiting the linux version i can understant your feelings but its very complicated to make a version of windows and linux, all at the same time. they have to be objective and organized and have to focus in one plataform at a time or the budget decrease very fast.
the budget its very small compared to aaa game, even so they are making an amazing job.
people forget why they did the game in kickstarter. At least they are not lying. in the end we will receive a drm free game without dlcs and microtransations. it will be a pure old school rpg. :) think about that
Or you prefer to have a game like dragon age2. (they make the game in one year). all the good rpg game take at least two years.
I probably need some sleep. I read that first line as "The communists from the early beta..."
Yeah, though. Take your time and make a good product. I tend to view Kickstarters as a long term investment into games that I'll want to play for years to come. Like a lot of the classic collection of games found on GoG. There's no rush on my part, and I imagine many others.
In other news, I really don't like the new Kickstarter layout design. I have to hop through several pages to sign in and comment, and it's much more difficult to find the updates through the website itself
1) "I can't understand why people are complaining because of a beta."
Different people have different tastes and goals. Some of them wanted to not just observe but to participate in the process of creation, to become part of something great, to tell others "Look, I helped this game became that good!" Others got annoyed with the fact that just about everyone including "pirates" already tasted the product (some ars saying "OMG! Greatness!!!!111", others complain about shallow combat, dump and broken stats e. g. "Charisma" and "Awareness" and generally giving 100500 reasons why the game suc^W is bad) but those who not in beta are unable to make their own impression thus far .
2) "...its very complicated to make a version of windows and linux, all at the same time". And "they have to... focus in one platform at a time..."
A common misconception. In fact, focusing on one platform is sure way to increase total cost of development. "Strike Suit Zero" is one of the most recent examples. After releasing initial game on "primary target" platform developers had to rewrite their graphics engine from Direct3D to OpenGL for Mac and Linux which costed them 2/3 of a year and additional separate beta-testing. And that all resulted in hilarious situation with users of Windows XP (XP still hold ~30% of total PC ecosystem) were unable to play because of DirectX 10! Later they accepted that was not their brightest idea ever. Needless to say that Unity3D can build all three PC versions simultaneously, and if for some reason it can't then you screwed somewhere and will be forced to fix this sooner or latter.
3) "In the end we will receive a drm free game without dlcs and microtransations".
I'm not Wanga, Nostradamus or so some other oracle and can not foresee what will be in a year. We already have examples of sudden "changes in plans": "Shadowrun: Returns", "The Banner Saga" etc. Sorry to appear pessimistic but I believe only in proven facts. Words without action are lotta hot air...
4) "All the good rpg game take at least two years".
Debatable! "Fallout 2" took less than a year! Granted, it was built upon existing engine and was buggy as hell, but still... I will tear apart anyone saying "Fallout 2" is not a Great RPG!
Did someone spell 'beggar' wrong in the text box of that first screenshot?
Everything looks great, by the way.
@Valery: Spot on !
@Paul Andersen: The new KS layout annoys me very much as well.
If you haven't already, you might want to consider sending a message about it to KS support.
I did, begging for the old layout to be added as a skin (or something like that), but my voice alone doesn't have much weight.
1) yes i understand that, but if people want to particape why dont bought the beta tiers? people that are complaining are the one with the lower tyers. i pledge the 15$ and i will not complain because people of the steam bought the game for 44.90 € . if people want to particape in the beta, inxile will give that option for 10$ dolars. i think its fair even for the higher tiers.
Pirates its bad but inxile cannot be blamed because of that. The game will be release and will be pirated and many people will play the game for free. All backer will ask for a refund because of that?
2- it can be true. but what could be more? inxile do not care about linux backers?, want mess his name in game industry? i dont believe that. i know that programing its not so simple even with the help of the unity they need invest some work / time. Unity prevents to create from scratch all the programming. i am a programer and i know that sometimes its easier to start in one plataform and in the end move to other plataforms. its what most of most devolopers do unless they have multiple teams. but i dont think thats the case.
3- i back for Shadowrun: Returns and im not regretted. they offer everything they said. They have some problems but solve almost all. Im not a oracle to, its possible inxile can have change of planes, but so far have not failed at all, except in time, so i will not be pessimist, not now :)
Even players that cant play, can see in videos that the game is gaining good shape.
4- do you want to have a buggy game? or wait and have a better game with only minor bugs?
Clearing the bugs and balacing can take a long time. wasteland its in that stage.
i dont want to say that there will be no problems, but they are doing a great job until now.
+1 what madGamer said!!!
@Paul - i don't like the new KS-design either for the sdame reasons! with the previous design you could hover and see which projects posted updates and junp directly in. now you have to load a page and scroll through it to find the update.
To add my experience to the matter at hand, I pledged $150, and I can't help with debugging the beta because it is limited to Steam, even though I pledged for a DRM-free game and thus sure as hell don't want to deal with Steam.
You hopefully can imagine how bitter I feel.
Tell it to KS support !
Let us be heard !
@madGamer: yes i understand that. But you can install steam, you dont have a gun pointed in the head stopping you to download. Could be against your principles but still you can. you will not lost so much time installing it and create an account. its bad, but use it only for the beta games, many developers uses steam because have many good features that can help for the debugging of the game. i dont hate steam, but i prefer one thousand times GOG because of the drm. at least the full game will be drm. For me its the most important.
1) "... why don't bought the beta tiers?"
Maybe because they are under Linux or Mac OS? Maybe they hate Steam? Reasons can vary. The result is the same. :-(
2) No, I don't want to cast a shadow on inXile's name. But I didn't see any result of their work despite all approximated dates were busted... And if a company delaying release for general bugs for a year (at least) but can not spare additional week to test Linux build... I dunno, something seems fishy. And if they need more then a week to shape up Linux build then there is definitely some fundamental flaw in their work-flow! I'm no programmer though... yet.
3) As did I! :-) Initially they made a lot of ugly moves. If you are a backer then you should remember: No_manual_save, No_inventory, Steam-only, No_DLC_for_DRM-free, No_Editor_for_Linux... Aahh, good old times! But they are doing better and better now. All of their wrong moves were or are being corrected, so I'm satisfied with them! But it would be a lot better if they did not make that mistakes.
4) That was kind of joke :-)
In my country there is a proverb "Better a titmouse in hands then a crane in the sky".
Perfection is unattainable, but there are degrees of approximation, of course. WL2 will not be perfect no matter how much time inXile will spend polishing it. Process of its improvement will continue after release and after inXile itself will give up on the game by community efforts, I hope.
1- For that i dont have a answer, but they have their reasons i thinks. unfortunately linux is always put to secondary, maybe because the most backers has windows. i dont know... but hapens almost in all game agencies.
2- like i said the game is 3 times bigger, if a game is bigger more time they need make the game and to clear the bugs. the worst problem that i can see is about the linux backers. :(
3- everyone makes mistakes at least they are trying to solve :)
4- its true :)
@madGamer: No I can't install Steam, because Yes it's against my principles.
My problem with the way betas are mostly treated nowadays is that it feels like project makers do mention DRM-free versions to appeal to that crowd and get some more money, but then they slap them in the face by limiting the betas/alphas to Steam.
It may be easier for them to distribute, but that's still double standards when it comes to how DRM-free users and Steam users are treated (and some rare KS projects are still able to distribute their games on their own, even with "only" a few thousands backers... makes you wonder how lazy or subverted the rest of the devs can be).
@British download and play the "free drm version" that many people use... and dont buy more game from inxile and other developers from kickstarter if you feel so deceived.
For me i only buy drm free games from kickstarter without alphas and betas.
The 55$ pledge level states that the beta will be on steam. I would be with you, if the whole game now would be on steam and not DRM-free, because this is not what they said.
There might be better ways for betas for some people who reject to use steam. But talking about double standards or the devs beeing lazy or subverted or feeling bitter when the standard for this beta is CLEARLY set is just ridiculous.
I think the communication is great, and I'm looking forward to the final game in a polished state, instead of Battlefielding the thing. Although I don't echo the sentiments of the people saying "take AS MUCH time as you need." How about something in the middle? I'm sure the game will be good, but I don't want to wait until 2015 to find out.
I am all for ensuring that the game is released in the best shape possible and with bug fixes rather than hack arounds to meet a deadline. This is after all going to be the base of a game that I hope will live as long as Fallout 1+2 did for me (1997, can't believe that it's been 17 years now, I still play them) as well as hopefully form a basis for upcoming titles. I am confident that Wasteland will continue to get more installments or that or that the engine (along with the Pillars of Eternity engine) will continue to fuel cRPG's for the next decade or so. I consider such work and the delays it entails an investment in my happy future as an OS X and iOS gamer.
I know first hand the ugly crap game developers tend to do late in the cycle to make performance goals or workaround release critical bugs.
Besides the game has grown and inXile has been great about sharing progress updates.
Next time though, can it please be a priority to get betas out cross platform on the same date. I will happily pay for it, as well as provide my time and experience as a beta tester towards breaking the game early but I'd prefer not to have to wait. All the fun crashers will be solved by the time I get to play (yes, I derive fun from breaking software.. I am strange that way).
@British - it says in the pledge description that beta is only for steam. So imho no justified reason to be bitter. And good point in telling KS Support, i'll do that!
I personally detest Steam with the burning fiery passion of a million desert suns but I think it's currently the best option from the standpoint of offering a cross platform delivery method where pushing updates doesn't involve a ton of reviews which would delay the beta process. Thus I have no serious problem tying alpha and betas to it.
What I do for all these Kickstarters is pledge for a DRM-free option and then I buy the game separately via the Mac or iOS App Store upon release since that is my preferred delivery method.
As Apple are not on board with the level and type of gifting or redeeming that would be required that is a price I pay (e.g. you can't gift items between international stores). On the plus side it means additional sales for the projects I support which I assume they like. I can always give the GOG.com or other service redemption codes away as gifts to my gamer friends. I do wish this would change and I hope that more Kickstarter projects would be open to supporting the Mac App Store e.g. via an extra pledge of say 5$ to cover their additional costs and the hassle Apple imposes on them.
@madGamer: I'm actually pondering limiting myself to backing projects that propose a DRM-free version *only* at release, but I'm not planning to let the ogre win that easily.
For projects that do offer a DRM-free version and are not crystal-clear about the alpha/beta distribution, I now always ask them about it.
@Lars H/Tobi: So just because they said it from the start, it's fine ?
Then, for example, whenever a project starts asking for a higher fee for DRM-free versions over Steam, it will be OK... because they said it from the start ?
Also, wouldn't it also make sense for the devs to beta-test the distribution of DRM-free versions as well ?
Here's your laziness.
For the lot of you annoyed by my constant bickering about Steam, I'm sorry (ok, probably not) but I'll continue to do so everywhere it applies, as long as this fat octopus stays on its path to hegemony.
"Fight for freedom", and all that shizzle ^^
@british - so what's so wrong with steam? I really never understand what all the fuss is about. All my games in a central location ready for me to dload at anytime, share with family, great community, great sales, etc. Are you one of those 'information wants to be free, capitalism is evil, there should be no software protection' guys?
No Linux release date? Shadow Run Returns all over again. Now I KNOW I will NEVER do a kickstarter again. This is bull! I thought you were using Unity! Doesn't it build the Linux version for you? Also, why can't you give us poor Linux Gamers access to the Beta while you are working on the Linux Binaries so we can STFU. This is malarkey, plain and simple. Poor development decisions!
Hey british. You may complain about a beta only on steam because you don't like it. But feeling bitter because YOU decide not to use steam? How lazy of you not to install it.
I think it is pretty easy: If you back a project, you accept the terms. If a project does something you don't like, don't back it. That's what I would do if a game would charge a higher pledge for different platforms. In fact there were some iOS game projects that looked quite neat but wanted a higher pledge for a Windows version of the game.
Did not like it, did not back it. For me, it is that easy, for you it seems a little bit more complicated.
Thanks for the update!
Looks much more playable now! Good job, keep it up!
@British "@Lars H/Tobi: So just because they said it from the start, it's fine ?
Then, for example, whenever a project starts asking for a higher fee for DRM-free versions over Steam, it will be OK... because they said it from the start ?"
Hi British! Your utterly substance-less straw man aside, YES, it is ok! The fulfillment conditions were made clear since before you, or anybody else, gave money. If you had such mouth-foaming objections at the time, they evidently weren't enough to stop you from going ahead with backing.
You're arguing that this project did what it said it would do and that that's wrong. It's like you paid for vanilla ice cream and you're mad that they didn't give you chocolate. If you think that what you're doing is a "fight for freedom," I don't think that you know the meaning of the phrase.
>> I can't help with debugging the beta because it is limited to Steam, even though I pledged for a DRM-free game and thus sure as hell don't want to deal with Steam.
I'm with you dude.
@dungeoncrawl @Lars H
>> what's wrong with steam
That's beyond the point, period. This campaign marketed heavily how the game would be DRM-free and SOLD access to the beta. Now the beta isn't DRM-free, which wasn't clear at the beginning. These are the facts.
Many people don't mind using Steam, which is good for you but doesn't change the facts. Some like me won't download and install a third party DRM machine on their PCs, so we're off the beta now.
@Rafael: Yes it WAS clear from the beginning. Just look on the pledge levels. They are displayed there, you know? Let's see, what they are stating:
$15:Digital Downloadable copy of game DRM free for PC or MAC OSX or Linux.
$55: and premiere access to an early playable beta on steam.
Just be repeating it, YOU don't change the facts, that the game itself will be released DRM-free (or on steam if you want to), BUT the beta was supposed to be on steam. FACT! It's not like they were offering beta access to a drm-free version at ANY time.
It is not possible to change the pledge-levels (you can only close them and open another, but the closed ones still are visible) after the start of the campaign. Though there are NO levels that offer beta access WITHOUT steam, you should consider yourself wrong, period.