Share this project

Done

Share this project

Done
Wasteland 2 has been released to great acclaim, earning Game of the Year from PCWorld, and reaching #1 on the Steam sales charts. Now, the Director's Cut comes as a free PC update to all backers as our thanks for making the game happen!
Wasteland 2 has been released to great acclaim, earning Game of the Year from PCWorld, and reaching #1 on the Steam sales charts. Now, the Director's Cut comes as a free PC update to all backers as our thanks for making the game happen!
61,290 backers pledged $2,933,252 to help bring this project to life.
Silver, Tzahi Dadon, and 14 more people like this update.

Comments

Only backers can post comments. Log In
    1. Missing avatar

      Adam Lang on

      Mumble.

      Three diplomacy skills and a leadership skill? So basically, what happens is, one ranger gets a relatively high charisma and those four skills, and the rest use Charisma as a dump stat. Since every single other stat is helpful in combat (modulo IQ, which is helpful because more skill points), this means that, again, we have one character who will be less useful in combat than all the others, and (because the others all have out-of-combat skills that are tied to actual useful attributes) no more useful outside of combat.

      When will game designers learn to just dump the idea of charisma entirely? Or at least not exacerbate matters by not unnecessarily dividing up diplomacy skills so as to make any 'face' character that wants to be reasonably well-rounded spend the majority of his skill points on them? Sure, if I'm a decent player I can work around having a weak team member in combat, but one would think that that sort of thing should be my choice, not designed into the system.

    2. Missing avatar

      Heffaklump on

      Take your time guys, we and you want a good game. We know you will make it, what is a few months here and there. I´ve been waiting years for something like this!

    3. Missing avatar

      paradroid on

      @someone
      Love the "Dumb Ass" skill, that would be so cool :-)

    4. Missing avatar

      Flash on

      Read the skill list came to the Ass Trio and everything was well with the world...;-)
      That names are a keeper.

    5. Ettore Gislon on

      I love luck as a stat, keep it please.

    6. Missing avatar

      someone on

      Can we get a Dumb Ass skill for a complete idiot character that is incredibly lucky?

    7. Missing avatar

      Archangel on

      I don't have a problem with Luck being an attribute as long as it has additional impact in the game beyond a few numbers (like in Fallout where really high luck would let you find an alien craft and really low luck would let you run into a giant that would stomp you).

      Also, I would also like to see some skills fused together, unless you have about equal amount of content in the game for all the skills. And quality of content is also important.
      Lets take Computer Tech and Synth Tech as examples. If Computer Tech is going to let you get some more info here and there that you can sell for money but if Synth Tech is going to let you build your robot companion these two skills are not nearly of equal worth even if they have same amount of uses during the game.
      The importance of situations where you use a skill is a important as the amount of times.

    8. Missing avatar

      Revisor on

      Having thought about it I think there are three pain points in the current skill system:

      Strength + Brute Force seem redundant. The distinction between "being strong" and "being able to apply strength" seems so fine that it will add very little to the game.

      Computer Tech + Synth Tech seem redundant. What's the difference between reprogramming a desktop computer vs a computer inside a robot-looking chassis? Unless there are many androids in the game and they differ fundamentally from robots.

      Field Stripping looks like it should be included in/tied to the weapon skills. Or in/to Weaponsmithing. Or both.

    9. Missing avatar

      paradroid on

      Looking better and better!!

      Luck: after all these years I also fail to see the point. Either the computer gives you a good roll or not. Shouldn't be a skill, but just, err, good or bad luck and something that works in the back.

      Always liked the idea that skill increases with use, I think this is more "realistic", but whatever: if you need me to increase a point here and there I'll do it (but will think back and cry that in WL1 we were past that!).
      And, yes: please, please let the guy with the most skill points do the job in question automatically!

      Some skills indeed could be merged or removed: as somebody said before if you have a 10 strength guy in the group, this guy should be perfectly able to break in the door, anyway, no??

      What?! No brawling/martial arts?! This is the wasteland after all?!

    10. Cihan Deniz on

      @bublegumm You must be confused about what parallel projection means unless you have misperceived proportions in the screenshots because otherwise it is so clear that the scenes are rendered in perspective. Take a look at this screenshot with parallel reference line for X and Z axis based on the corner piece behind the rangers and see how the parallel edges in the game scene don't adhere to the parallel reference lines at all:

      http://i.imgur.com/d8oLKqb.jpg

      Take a moment to contemplate that, to understand whether it is those particular game scenes from those angles that you don't like, if you have a thing about parallel projection for no reason. The funny thing is, the entire game would look so much more comforting to the eye if it were actually rendered with parallel projection.

    11. Theobeau:OOoE\Mad man with a box/Exiled on

      Great update; really gives the reader a strong feeling for the character and party building aspects of the game.

      Big advantage of having multiple PCs is that you get to try out different combinations that you wouldn't normally use when the PC is also the main protagonist and the rest of the party NPCs.

    12. Andrew C on

      I like Robert Garrow's idea of synergy bonuses to certain similar skills That really makes sense.

    13. Ryan "Keokuk" Smith on

      Whoever is dead tired sitting in a chair and burnt out.

      This smiley face is for you!

      C:

      Ya, I'm loving seeing all this goodness UMPH thanks.

    14. Missing avatar

      Leon Moor on

      "How is picking a lock anything like cracking a safe?"

      It just seems like they'll make x% of the locked containers key locks and y% of them combination locks just to justify the two skills. I'm only saying that because it's what most developers seem to do though. If your "safe cracker" character opened up opportunities to do bank robberies, while your "lock picking" character opened up opportunities to assassinate people while they sleep in their bed or free prisoners it would be justifiable though.

    15. Missing avatar

      James Fisher on

      It would be nice if the Demolition skill only allowed that person to craft rockets and or use an RPG. For Safecracking it would be nice if only that person could "find" the hidden way to open the lock

    16. Missing avatar

      Taziar on

      Mark, Saying you don't like Luck attributes because you would rather spend the points on strength is silly. Just don't spend points on luck for your characters. Or any other attributes or skills you feel are less important.

      I did make a case, however. In FE1/2 it can affect dialog and random special encounters. It also affects critical hit percentage, if you want to focus on stats. I believe it is also a prereq for some perks.

      What the Wasteland guys choose to do with it, we shall see.

    17. Daniel Reuter on

      Never change the Ass Trio.

    18. Missing avatar

      Eric Rodman on

      Some of the skills do sound redundant, Computer Tech sounds like a better version of Alarm Disarm. I think Anti-Tank Weapons would also fall under Demolitions. I agree as well that there should be a hand to hand skill.

    19. Stevan on

      "Field Stripping/Salvaging as well as Picklock/Safecrack and Synth Tech/Computer Tech are essentially the same for me"

      Huh?

      How is picking a lock anything like cracking a safe?

      You have multiple user created characters in this game that are supposed to be completely unique in their skillsets, giving them specific personality. How is combining skills doing anything but making them feel generic.

    20. Stevan on

      Luck is fantastic, keep it.

      However, this quote earlier is a great way to make it rewarding without guessing:

      "Maybe if a four-leaf clover sparkled across the screen when luck happened in your favor I'd notice that there is an increase in my luckyness."

      I also love the new screenshots and the ass trio.

      People comparing Fallout 3 to this game are clueless.

    21. Missing avatar

      Leon Moor on

      I'm glad the backer skill doesn't change the gameplay. The first thing I did in Fallout NV and Deus Ex HR was dump the overpowered pre order bonus guns. It's like "Welcome to the game! Your starting choices for weapons are a pair of tiddly winks or a scented candle. Oh I see you've pre ordered the game, one 40 watt phased plasma rifle coming up!"

      I hope that people who didn't back the game won't miss out on anything too cool though. E.g. it would suck if half the people who played Fallout 2 never found the Cafe of Broken Dreams etc.

    22. George Mattson on

      One thing I remember from the original Wasteland that I'd love to see is to have the skills increase in real time as they are used. I don't mind spending the points to increase skills, but I found that I really enjoyed seeing my SMG skills (or whatever) increase by a point in the middle of a firefight. That was a really effective way of showing me I was making progress during the game other than just the occasional level up instances.

      And I agree on the Ass trio - priceless!

    23. Mark Taraba on

      Derek, I don't know why you keep bringing up how much attributes had an effect on fallout 3 as some kind of basis for why luck needs to be an attribute. A cursed trait that would fill in for low luck attribute effects, a lucky perk or trait that would fill in for high luck attribute effects. Done. You haven't made an argument for why a player would notice luck 5 versus luck 6 versus luck 7. But everyone can see that there's a difference between strength 5, 6 and 7 and is making a decision based on those. Luck is so much of a "I don't know what this extra point is going to buy me" that I think people play with it pushed to extremes or just leave it at 5. Maybe I'll move it to 4 to put an extra point somewhere else, but why on earth would I EVER make a 6 luck character? Unless I'm trying to make a really high luck character, why would I EVER add an attribute point to luck when I'm leveling up?

    24. Missing avatar

      ukshadow on

      ... leave the asses as they are. Adds to the flavor.

    25. Not One Of Us on

      The Ass Trio names better make the final game.

    26. Missing avatar

      Taziar on

      Mark, Attributes in Fallout 3 didn't do much. In Fallout 1/2 they did. A low INT had more effect than just a minor difference to skill points. Your character was basically retarded, and your dialogue options reflected that. The same with luck. They affected scripted events, not just skill rolls.

    27. Missing avatar

      Baudolino05 on

      I'm not a huge fan of character systems with too much discrete skills that do similar things (a better solution for a video game, in experience, would be a system with less skills, wider areas of application for these skills, lots of perks or specializations or whatever to add a particular flavor to your character) but I'm willing to admit that your system might work fine in a party-based game like WL2.
      That being said, a few things concern me:

      1) Coordination seems by far the best stat to pick, for any kind of character. AP shouldn't be derived by a single stat.
      2) I'm not a simulationist freak, but things like "brute force" and "perception" handled as skills are too much even for me. I know you've decided long ago that the only way to interact with the world would have been through skills, but if I understand right, in WL2 you can have a character with a score of 10 in Strength and 0 in Brute Force. This doesn't make sense at all...
      3) No brawling in the game? You should reconsider the option of a "close combat" skill for both "blunt/edge weapons and bare hands.

    28. Mark Taraba on

      Yeah, I played F1 and F2. I brought up F3 because it's a modern RPG game that uses luck. My point is that I see when my strength, awareness, speed, intelligence, charisma and coordination get used by just one point. What's the thing I notice when I put one more point in to luck? Nothing much. I know because I've done it before. It feels like a waste of a precious point. Man, I could have hauled all this loot back to town if I put it in strength, but I wasted it on luck.

      Maybe if a four-leaf clover sparkled across the screen when luck happened in your favor I'd notice that there is an increase in my luckyness.

      But with your only argument being "it makes the game cooler" you could agree that moving luck to a perk would probably do the same thing you want and not have it need any attribute points.

    29. Missing avatar

      Taziar on

      Fallout 3 is a bad example of an RPG to reference about attributes. Attributes made very little difference in the game. They really just served as minimums for perks.
      Example. Action points if Fallout 3
      3 Agility = 71 AP
      10 Agility = 85 AP
      That is a very small % difference.

    30. Missing avatar

      Taziar on

      This is NOT LIKE FALLOUT 3. More like Fallout 1/2. Luck did far more than just changing dice rolls. It affected the game. Just like Intelligence affected how your dialogue went. It wasn't just rolls, a low int character talked like a moron.

    31. Mark Taraba on

      I dislike "luck" as an attribute. It was fine for the S.P.E.C.I.A.L in Fallout 3 I guess just to keep the old system. But can we please move past it? All those other attributes are rolled on right now, right? So we have luck on top of attributes that are randomly used. Gah. All the attributes say something about the person. What is luck saying about them? The laws of probability are warped by his nature? For some reason he can roll a 6 more than you can if he needs to roll high. But if the game needs him to roll low then he'll roll a 1 more. Maybe keep it as a perk or something, but really what impact could I see that would justify a 6 vs 7 luck? This one increases hit points, this one increases carry capacity, but luck could be broken because it's hand wavy calculations we're modifying in the background and you'll never know unless you take detailed notes in two different playthroughs

    32. Missing avatar

      Taziar on

      Death, you said you played fallout 1/2, but still call Luck a tax? It was a total flavor skill. It could totally change the entire play of the game. You could easily play with low luck and do fine, or you could max it and have a greater chance of finding strange encounters. Your other attributes would be lower, but finding an alien blaster before you even had your first shotgun was really fun.

    33. Missing avatar

      DeathQuaker on

      REALLY irritating there is no brawling/martial arts skill. Would like my characters to have a reasonable option for when they run out of ammo and may not have a melee weapon. Plus seems stupid if you have a post-apocalyptic world and no one is capable of having a proper bar brawl. You make room for a skill named after a Cheers character but no one is able to punch anybody? Come on.

      Salvaging seems like a "skill tax" as who isn't going to be good/want to be good at that, and if there should be a skill for it, it should be combined with Field Stripping at least, and probably Perception too. You do not need three skills for "finding stuff."

      While we're combining skills, we do not need two different skills for "medic." More skill taxing. It was annoying in Fallout 1 and 2 (sadly I missed out on the first Wasteland) and one of the best fixes in the new gen Fallouts was that they consolidated into one skill.

      "Ass" skills seems a little "cute" but honestly? At least the skill names are memorable and definitely evoke what they are for, so they may be worth keeping.

      Also, count me in as someone else who thinks Luck is another "Tax" sort of skill; I hate it when games have that as an "attribute"; especially since it looks like the only reason you're using it so you can fill in the "L" slot so you can spell a clever word with the attributes. That is not the reason to have a game mechanic. Let the dice fall where they will and leave it.

      Sorry to complain so much but I love skill based play so I like seeing it done so it looks like fun and not a chore, and this looks more like "chore" than "fun" right now. That said I do like many of the options presented and glad there's a lot of stuff related to survival, tech, etc. as well as interactions.

    34. British on

      Yay for monospace fonts, at least it's easy to read \o/

    35. Missing avatar

      Taziar on

      Keep all the skills, there are enough 'streamlined' games out there. But I do agree, the highest skill in the party should be used in most cases, unless the party is split up.

    36. Missing avatar

      Taziar on

      I like lots of skills. To me, the sign of a good game, is one where you can't experience all of it in one play-through, based upon your choices and characters. You shouldn't be able to do everything. Pick your path. The skills you choose will make your experience different than mine.

      Single player games aren't made to be super balanced. Some skills will be more powerful. But some may be more fun. Some skills you will use a lot. Others, maybe just rarely. Maybe you fix a guys toaster and he is so thankful, he gives you a quad-barreled-plasma-death-cannon, the only one in the game.

    37. Bill Harned on

      Love what's going on and can't wait for the beta. Absolutely love finding glitches and problems. When do we get info on wasteland 1?

    38. gandalf.nho
      Superbacker
      on

      I agree with the comments about keeping the "ass" skills, merging similar skills and using the character with the highest skill score manage the situation, not always the leader

    39. Willem on

      Game is shaping up nicely, thanks for the update. Screenshots look very good. Just one thing I would also like to add (as quite a few others have already mentioned) regarding skills: streamlining skills might be a good idea since as it stands now there are many skills that just don't make sense to completely separate (others before me have given ample examples), so just look at this please; I would much rather have 20 truly diverse and useful skills than 40 skills that differ only slightly (this also complicates the game and balance needlessly). Also: make sure that each skill is useful and represented in the game to an adequate degree. I am looking forward to the game!

    40. Missing avatar

      mina86 on

      Could we please have proportional font rather than monospace? It's 21st century you know? And if there will be a lot of text in the game, it's important it's easy to read. In otherwise amazing screenshots the bottom right corner looked like taken from some other game.

    41. asymon on

      Neither "grenades", nor "throwing" skill?

    42. Missing avatar

      Robert Garrow on

      If the skills remain the same in the final, perhaps a "synergy" bonus? If you have x points in surgeon, you automatically get y points in field medic? If you can do extensive doctoring in combat, you sure as heck can handle "medic" actions.
      Similarly with the repair skills. If you are going to build something from salvaged parts, you probably know what to look for in a junkyard and how to strip things down to make use of them. etc...etc..etc...

    43. Andrew C on

      Also, have to second tying action points to a single stat is a bad move. Surely basing it on Co-ords, Awareness and Speed would be better and make more sense?

    44. Andrew C on

      I have to agree with the others, you couldn't become proficient in a weapon without learning how to field strip it. It seems a totally redundant skill, especially when what you seem to mean by the skill is actually a subset of salvage and weapon smithing. The *ass skills also seem like they could be unified into one or 2 skills, perhaps intimidation and diplomacy

    45. dungeoncrawl on

      If the game is already gonna have mature language in it, keep the ass trio. If it wasn't going to have mature language, don't keep it.

      Loving this update. Can't wait to get my hands on the beta. Willing to be early early beta and give feedback. I'll sign any NDA you've got. :)

    46. Missing avatar

      Mike on

      I've very excited and think things are coming along nicely. However, not to nitpick an unfinished game, but like some others I'd like to encourage you to take another look at some of the skill delineations.

      For example, I find it hard to believe (or even understand) how a master in Weaponsmithing would be able to add parts to a gun without knowing how to remove parts from it (the Field Stripping skill). In fact, I would recommend making the Field Stripping (and possibly even Weaponsmithing) skill dependent on each of the different weapon proficiencies, as anyone proficient with a type of weapon would naturally know how to field strip it. Likewise, is there anyone on earth that can crack a safe but not pick a lock? Also, would someone knowledgeable and skilled enough to repair and reprogram robots (Synth Tech) not be able to rewire an alarm (Alarm Disarm) or fix a toaster or other simple electronics (Toaster Repair)? Because I'd hate to waste a ton of skill points just so my guy that can repair a complicated robot wouldn't throw up his arms in frustration when he encounters a broken toaster, as that would be ridiculously frustrating and quickly take me out of the game.

      Anyway, just some thoughts I hope you'll take into consideration. Keep up the great work!

    47. British on

      I'm concerned about the beta, as it is stated in the $75 pledge that there will be an early beta access, but *on Steam*.
      No luck out of that damn Steam then ? :/

    48. Alex Norris
      Superbacker
      on

      I'm not a super fan of AP being tied to a single stat - because they're needed for everything, it just means that everyone needs to take Co-ordination as high as they can. That's not really interesting from a character choice aspect.

    49. Missing avatar

      Leon Moor on

      Luck is an awful attribute to put in an RPG. It doesn't add to the "choices and trade offs" design, unless it's simply a prerequisite for play options and isn't a roll at all.

    50. Missing avatar

      kwerboom on

      The ass trio seem to fit with the game. I'd love to see you keep them.

      Also, agreeing with Lars Møller's concern about skills. I hate it when a game that is suppose to have a group dynamic only uses the main PC or front PC skill stats for encounters. It kills the idea of diversifying the team leading to me building a super front character and never building out the abilities of the other team members.