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A story-driven CRPG set in the world of Monte Cook's Numenera.  We are deeply appreciative to all of you who made this possible. Torment: Tides of Numenera is available now for PC on Steam or GOG, as well as PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.
A story-driven CRPG set in the world of Monte Cook's Numenera. We are deeply appreciative to all of you who made this possible. Torment: Tides of Numenera is available now for PC on Steam or GOG, as well as PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.
74,405 backers pledged $4,188,927 to help bring this project to life.
Wesley Hodgson, zmonkey, and 208 more people like this update.

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    1. Nina - Order of the Goat on

      Great update, thanks for the explanation! Although I was leaning towards RTwP I think the arguments for TB are sound - and as you said combat isn't the main thing that makes Torment wondeful. Although mildy disappointed that TB won, I do really appreciate you took the time to hear what the backers had to say and consider everyone's concerns before making this decision. It couldn't have been easy with such an even split!

    2. Missing avatar

      Emeraude on

      Nothing to add on the vote. Situation haven't changed for me from the first day of the Kickstarter: the devs have now to prove they can pull it off.

      @armored_mammal
      Amusingly, I can't stand Fallout 3 because I find it tedious and obnoxious. Not to mention the fast travel that breaks immersion while failing in its attempt in alleviating the tedium..

    3. Missing avatar

      Grenville Wilson on

      This was an awesome update and an awesome explanation. Rest assured that the vast majority of your backers are satisfied with your reasoning and trust you as game designers. As for the rest of them...

      ITT:
      People who have not read the Crisis design document.
      People who think PS:T was Murderfest 6000.
      People who think Kickstarter is a store.

    4. armored_mammal on

      @Sensuki - I did back Massive Chalice, however I backed it because 1) it is a tactical strategy game (according to Double Fine), NOT an RPG, 2) I am not expecting deep/in depth story, just a casual game, and 3) I'm hoping the whole breeding a lineage of heroes thing turns out to be pretty cool. I fail to see how that's at all at odds with my hate of turn based in RPGs (and particularly the reasons behind my hate) since it's not actually an RPG or a game focused on character development, world building, or plot. I've said repeatedly the more like Civ or HoM&M a game is the less I have an issue with TB... However the more a game is about characters, plot, and world building the more I want to murder people who think mixing TB fits with those things.

      Also, RE Fallout, I can't play through 1 or 2 because it's too tedious and obnoxious, but I can play 3 just fine. I enjoyed it, even though I think it could have used more Bioware-like character interactions and deeper character building and have been less combat focused.

      Also, @Sensuki I don't see why RTWP requires 'rounds.' It's pretty clear that programming RTWP via an evented/timer high-concurrency model (like with node.js or twisted) makes a lot of sense. I don't expect to miss global rounds at all. Always found them to be a turn based artifact that didn't have a real technical reason to exist.

    5. LordCrash on

      @dlux
      Nice. I'm a big fan of the original and the expansion should make it even better according to the stuff I read about it.
      I also can't wait the Divinity Original Sin alpha, which should be out soon. :)

    6. ☆ dlux ☆ on

      @LC:
      I gotta play the new XCOM addon too. Looks good. :3

    7. LordCrash on

      @meganothing
      Sure, but I wouldn't give them a dime up front. That's all about here. We're not a community rooting for our dream game. We're a bunch of people who have already paid for that game. So we have every damn right to state our opinion and be dissapointed.
      And of course they can fail in many, many ways, no question. But this failure is a calculated risk, it's a part of crowdfunding.
      Once there was a rule on kickstarter: Just present full concepts and stuff ready for production. Only projects like that were allowed. Not even stuff like Massive Chalice passes, spitting on the original ruleset and the spirit behind kickstarter. I'm not happy with that, not at all.

    8. Antony Zymosis on

      I just can applaud for this decision and it's explanation. They have vision and they will deliver a great game. I have no doubts now.

    9. ☆ dlux ☆ on

      @LC:
      I'm not saying that it isn't important and not a minor issue. I have already written that I don't think it was a very wise decision - if mostly just for nostalgic reasons.

      1. Not rewarding kills with xp in a game full of trash mobs is simply a very bad game design decision IMO (which is one reason why I unbacked P:E)
      2. TB and RTwP on the other hand are great combat systems. Both are (were...) very valid options that can lead to a well designed game.

      That is the reason why I tolerate their decision and think the game will be great even with TB combat. But like I said, I don't think it was a very good idea to ignore nostalgia.

    10. meganothing dread bard of torment BOSB on

      @LC said "I wonder whether people would argue the same way if Inxile also let us vote on perspective (isometric, first person, third person or even simple text-based without graphics...)".

      I can only tell you what I would have done: Voted and accepted that. If inXile thinks they can pull off a Torment-like game as third person or in text-form, I would give them the chance. Then in 2015, after playing the finished game, that would be the time to give them my opinion.

      Remember, they can fail in more than one way. I have more fear that their story is unoriginal or doesn't work or is too similar to PS:T's story. Graphics, RPG system and combat system are secondary. Not irrelevant, but something I'm willing to try out no matter what idea they come up with.

    11. LordCrash on

      @Jakub
      Lol, what? Why would you want an active pause in a turn-based game???

    12. LordCrash on

      BTW I just bought XCOM Enemy Within for reasonable 16€....I do like TB games but it depends on the overall concept and "feel" of a game. ;)

    13. LordCrash on

      @dlux
      Well, when no XP for killing monster is not a minor issue how could a whole other combat system be?
      All I was trying to say is that you want to talk reason into people although you know that stuff like this is emotional. Statements like "Inxile will know what works best" are just plain stupid imo. It's like stating that concept doesn't matter after all, just the people developing. I think it's much more the other way round. Even good developers can develop bullshit (just look at Bioshock Infinite....). In the end it's all about the concept and I don't see any reason why we should trust anyone to make a better TB game than a RTwP game.... ;)

    14. Jakub Abramczuk on

      Just give us an active pause

    15. Gene on

      Naw, i'm just watching both the RTWP and TB people go at each other, Sensuki, now THAT was trolling

    16. Nameless on

      @Gene - And? Geez, stop trolling.

    17. Gene on

      @All 'currently eating popcorn'

    18. ☆ dlux ☆ on

      Anyway, FYI, I voted for RTwP. Mostly for nostalgic reasons, i.e. that Infinity Engine feeling. Which I of course love.

      Hiya again Bloodraven. :)

    19. ☆ dlux ☆ on

      @LC:
      Whaaaaaaat? Me arguing? Saying that their disappointment is not justifed? Who's posts are you reading dude. xD
      I have already been called a TB hater today, and now I don't like RTwP either. I guess I don't know where I belong. O.o

      ^^

      BTW: I was not fond about more than one thing during the Project Eternity kickstarter. And no xp for kills is not a minor issue (at least to me), it is stupid to kill tons of trash mobs and not receive xp for that. Might as well just remove loot for killing too.

    20. bloodraven43 tormented Weresheep on

      Michael Melnikoff 1 minute ago

      It's also baffling why you would do something like this that cracks your fanbase in half and turns it against itself.
      .....that would be money my friend....lol

    21. bloodraven43 tormented Weresheep on

      @ LC ....exactly...yep yep yep

      @ Tane Norther ....easy...they change that assets and fudge the numbers alittle...and the ruleset...with this bonehead move....you really think you are going to get a ruleset similar to the tabletop game....haha...don't let the wolf pull that cover over your eyes again baaaaaahhhhhh.....lol

    22. Missing avatar

      Michael on

      It's also baffling why you would do something like this that cracks your fanbase in half and turns it against itself.

    23. LordCrash on

      @Tane
      Well, it's still much easier to build on the WL2 basis than to make a complete new RTwP system, don't you think? You can copy and paste or adapt many stuff but not all, that's true.

    24. LordCrash on

      I wonder whether people would argue the same way if Inxile also let us vote on perspective (isometric, first person, third person or even simple text-based without graphics...). I mean, who cares? It's all about the narrative, isn't it?

      Guys, if you don't care about video games and their elements and execution, read books. They have the better stories anyway. :P

    25. Tane Norther on

      @bloodraven43: How can you just directly copy-paste a combat system from WL2 to TtoN and forget about it, when they both use different rulesets? It's not simple as that.

    26. Missing avatar

      Tiresias on

      I only voted for RTwP because of the nostalgia factor. I've got plenty of good turn-based games in my library, so it's not like I can complain about it.

    27. LordCrash on

      The weird thing in this whole argumentation is that many of the people voting for TB are not really interested in combat after all. "It's all about the story, they claim." That's really odd because TB is at the very core a system which encourages combat gameplay. Most games that used a turn based approach are games that rely almost completely on the combat system (Jagged Alliance 1+2, Xcom, Civilization,...). Turn bases is best suited for games with a strong focus on strategy and actual combat gameplay. People play these games because of the turn based approach and not for other stuff like story while just accepting combat as a minor element of the game.
      It baffles me that suddenly turn based combat should be suited for a game that strives for narrative depth and immersion into a world, it's characters and its stories. Why would you think that a strategical approach based on non-video board games could to be suited to enhance this narrative basis? I don' get it. I think the real reason at the core is that again system and rulesets (aka crisis concept) rule over immersion and feel. It's one of the biggest and most constant failures in history of role playing VIDEO games. It's a game done by math freaks and nerds to be a numbers game cloaked with stories and fancy graphics but not a video game. It doesn't use the strenghts of the medioum (fluidity and immersion) to enhance tabletop gameplay, it denies its possibilities. It's just a tabletop game on a computer screen. That's so disappointing, especially for a narrative-driven game....

    28. bloodraven43 tormented Weresheep on

      oh yeah....rofl...inxile you are so greedy...copy and paste a combat system from a game that was already developed by you recently...guess that was smooth move by upper management and the vote was a Hollywood show...that's all I have to say...ill get over it.....you have ruined a classic...thx

    29. Missing avatar

      Dmitry Eliseev on

      This game was never meant to be either an exact clone of PST based on modern technology or it's sequel. The first reason is that the story of The Nameless One has already been told. The second reason is a problem with licensing setting and ruleset from Wizards of the Coast. So there was ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE of getting a sequel to or a modernized clone of PST. I believe everyone who backed here understood that. So why can't this game have a combat system that is done differently, especially taking the problems of original Torment into account?
      And why in the hells one would need ANOTHER Torment "clone" if there is an ORIGINAL Torment already? This kickstarter campaign was made because there was a chance to create a new Torment, with the same approach to narrative and philosophical depth yet with different story in a different world, without desperate clinging to the past with it's rights and wrongs.
      Remember that Torment became a Torment only due to it's story, it's memorable charachters, it's narrative and so on... Why can't be an entirely NEW Torment with the same philosophical depth and the same but evolved approach to narrative?
      I believe we all must just wait and see what happens. We need to see at least a prototype combat video to deliever preliminaty judgement instead of casting curses at InXile right now.
      InXile's intention to create a *spiritual successor* to PST is their chance to *transcend* the original, to evolve it, to make it something even *greater* no matter what. Just think on how much they bet on it... It's their Opus Magnus. And if they'll not make it right - then they are forever doomed in the eyes of their fans. That's why they needed our faith, our support and our money. And that's why we provided all of it to them.

      P.S. Voted for "indifferent" variant in this notorious poll because I believe in InXile and their vision though before that I imagined myself this game as RTwP.

    30. LordCrash on

      @dlux
      You shouldn't argue so much here, mate. Or may I remember you that you ragequit Eternity for a much minor issue? It wasn't even about the whole combat system but just about one element in the system. So don't pretend that it doesn't matter at all which elements are used in a game. That's just not true for many people. I know it and you know it... ;)

      BTW I don't have anything against TB in general. I love games like XCOM EU and Jagged Alliance 2 and I'm looking forward to Divinity Original Sin. But these are combat driven games at the core. These games are about combat and not about story. Torment and Eternity are more "adventure/novel RPGs" for me and no strategy games. Turn based doesn't fit that much to a narrative-driven game and it definitely kills immersion, no matter what Inxile says in order to justify it. They can't. It's a simple fact.

      I still hope that Torment will use a "light" turn based system without visible signs of its mechanics. A grid on the ground would be the ultimate death to every bit of immersion left....

    31. Gavin Reading Rainbow KS backer! on

      @Foot Soldier - All hail critical thinking!! Death to highly opinionated trolls!! :P

    32. Dawn_
      Superbacker
      on

      lie and not lack*

      And those who wanted and voted RtwP. *

      That is my feelings about it and now i will stop commenting this decision. Good luck with the game InXile.

    33. Missing avatar

      Michael on

      Also, it's pretty obvious you intended to go with TB from the start and this whole thing has just been a sham to justify it.

    34. Dawn_
      Superbacker
      on

      The worst thing about this vote imo is that it has cut players into two sides.
      If they had decided for themselves from the get go they would have less money for sure but no complaint.

      I don't see any losers though since we'll all get a new Torment which is more than what we had in the last 10 ten years.I don't think RtwP was a huge part of what made Torment such a great game, but it was a part of it.

      Going for TB just broke the sense of nostalgia i had with Numenera. So, i'll welcome this game as another game. What i didn't lack though what setting this vote rather than take a decision.

      Saying at the end we felt TB was what would provide the best experience, which is like spitting on those who wanted RtwP.

      And Also this doubt i have that they didn't say at first their intention to make more money.

    35. Missing avatar

      Michael on

      "Ultimately, there are no losers here."

      Of course there are - people who wanted a sequel to Planescape Torment. Despite your claims to the contrary, the combat system (and the Infinity Engine) were a huge part of what made Torment the best RPG of all time.

      That you've taken the easy way out because it's cheaper is extremely disappointing. You put effort over authenticity.

    36. Dawn_
      Superbacker
      on

      @Dungeoncrawl

      I would have probably back like everyone who loved PS:T but i would have surely put less money in it.

    37. Dawn_
      Superbacker
      on

      @Foot

      You should go to a PS4 vs XboxOne thread fan boy that's probably where you belong.

    38. dungeoncrawl on

      I find it hard to believe that anybody who really loved PS:T would have not backed this new one in the beginning even if it had been decided back then to be TB. I voted for RTwP but I'd STILL have given them my money. PST was NOT about RTwP. Sure you might have been a little disappointed but NOT BACK IT? That is throwing the baby out with the bath water if I've ever heard of it.

    39. Foot Soldier on

      All hail TB!! Death to RTwP!!

    40. IamHowie on

      @Tane. epic lawl. As Arnold said, if you don't grant me my wish, to hell with you!
      @David. Well I used to buy stuff based on assumptions, learnt it the hard way. Nowadays I read the expiry date before purchasing any food. Not saying I don't make same kind of mistakes any more, it's human, but can't blame others for my own fault. (except the part which they put rotten food on shelf).

    41. Kermit Pls on

      Wonder that the funding would have been if they were upfront with everything at the start.

      And I voted indifferent since I really didn't care tbh.

    42. IamHowie on

      @Sam
      You probably only read posts that are "@SAM". Scroll back and check out the posts in T:ToN forums, it's full of fake PS:T fanboi I truly refer to.

      T:ToN started off "spiritual successor of Planescape: Torment." It is stated very clearly and supported by Chris Avellone in numerous occasions through tweeters and youtube. I've been a forum poster of BIS since year 2000 and along with many true fanboys of PS:T understood that the moment we pledged this game we pledged for that 400+ pages in spirit created by BIS, not the combat Bioware had offered 15 year ago.

      Even though I will enjoy RTwP more than turn base, Infinity Engine is irrelevant to PS:T. Sure you can enjoy the game however you like, and you can stick your head in there for the rest of eternity, I don't care. You can enjoy driving a car backward when it's designed to be drove forward, but complaining that it's not designed to go backward is simply trolling.

    43. David Stewart on

      @Tane with a Kickstarter you are never going to get all the details. You have to take the jump at some point. Also not everyone is going to want to spend the time checking in on a project every day just to see if questions are answered or waiting until the final hours to back a project just so they can see all the details. Kickstarter largely works because people are willing and the project creators are largely honest and forthright. If either side of that system breaks down the whole system falls apart.

      It is also easy to look back and see thing that weren't explicitly laid out and think you should have seen them at the time, but history has shown that's not how we think. We fill in things using assumptions and context. It is how our vision works, it is how we communicate. It's a key aspect of our consciousness. It doesn't make sense to try to make people feel bad about being human.

    44. Tane Norther on

      Damnit. Wrong window. :( I spammed.

    45. Tane Norther on

      "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!" Haha. Good soundtrack and a great movie! (my fave movie sountrack must be the one of Terminator 1, though).

    46. Tane Norther on

      @ David Stewart: Well, I agree that people could assume there's a reasonable possibility for RTwP. But without information given, one shouldn't just pledge his money relying for an assumption or possibility of things. It's always a gamble. I wouldn't, or if I did, I'd learn about it and leave it to be the last time I did so, and be more careful on the next time.
      Think about it as buying a used NES game. Just because the seller shows you a picture of the game cart which is in flawless condition, and tells, that he will have picture of the cardboard game box for you tomorrow, if you can just wait for it, would you buy the whole package right then, assuming that cardboard box will be in good condition, too, because the game cart itself looks flawless? Or would you wait another day to see a picture of cardboard box too? There's good possibility that the cardboard box will be in nice condition as the cart itself is flawless and the sellers other items look to be pretty fine condition, also. Would you assume, or would you wait for more information before bidding?

    47. Missing avatar

      Restless on

      I knew you guys would address the fears most people had! I really trust your judgement anyway, since I don't have any strong feelings about the combat system anyway and combat isn't a focus of the game.

      Just try to make TB a bit more fllexible, meaning we can switch from character to character when it's our turn and then we can end the turn when we're done with all.
      But I guess you'll inform us about further details down the road ;)

    48. Sam on

      I am not actually putting my opinion anywhere, I am saying that people enjoyed different parts of it that maybe didn't match the "FUNDAMENTAL PHILOSOPHY" of the game and that to them it became part of that game regardless of whether it was intended or not because the way the game played out made that stick in peoples mind more than the 400+ pages of text that half of them probably skimmed at best

      Philosophy of games isn't what people on the whole remember or even think about majorly and so unless they decide to go far beyond simply enjoying the story it won't be relevant

      Also no one said RTwP was fundamental to the game, that one was all you

    49. Dawn_
      Superbacker
      on

      Personally, you would have explained why you wanted TB without vote i would have been Ok with.
      But giving a vote then see TB for you would provide the best experience later, i am less ok with it.