Funded! This project was successfully funded on April 5, 2013.

Update #11

Updated our Journal (11): Delving Deeper into Story & Graphics

TL;DR: Nathan Long tells a story (video). Five Fathoms deep. Dust and Water concept by Andree Wallin. Collaboration with Obsidian Entertainment. 2D pre-rendered graphics.

Hi Forgotten Ones,

Thanks to you, we had a record-breaking debut at the beginning of the month. With the announcements of Pat Rothfuss and Chris Avellone last week, we sailed past Wasteland 2’s total of nearly $3M. You’ve seen how great Wasteland 2 is coming along. We’ll have even more resources for Torment.

In the early morning of March 6th we had no way of knowing how powerful your response would be. We were humbled and inspired by your outpouring of support. And as we come upon our final week, we again do not know what to expect. Perhaps RPG fans will surprise us a second time. Whatever the outcome, we can assure you that Torment will provide a powerful, profound role-playing experience – you’ve already ensured that. But just how far we’ll be able to take it depends on all of you.

We have a couple surprises left. We hope you'll enjoy them.

Nathan Tells a Story (several, in fact)

In our Tales of Torment episodes, we’ve talked about many aspects of the game’s creative elements. Writer and designer Nathan Long (also a Wasteland 2 designer) brings all of those pieces together, explaining how we use these components to craft an RPG story. He talks about this in the context of possible subplots within a small section of the Bloom. This episode is a bit longer than most, but I think you'll find it’s worth it. =)

Fathoms

The ranks of the Forgotten have grown to over 57,000, thus bringing us five Fathoms deep in the Castoff’s Labyrinth. And we’re already 1/3 of the way to Fathom six! We’ll also add a bonus Fathom to the Castoff’s Labyrinth when we reach 10,000 Likes on our Facebook page, so spread the word!

Some of you have wondered if the Castoff’s Labyrinth will play such a strong role in the game, and be such a cool location, that it could even encourage players to die on purpose. We won’t design it that way. =) Like every area in the game, it has its part to play in the narrative, in your story. Its exact role will be part of your legacy – but it’s just a part, and it will vary based upon your choices, your priorities.

We’ve been expanding the Labyrinth both through Stretch Goals and by going into deeper Fathoms, which might give the impression that it’ll cover a majority of your game time. But while death is very relevant to legacy, abandonment, and mystery, death on its own isn’t one of our themes. The Castoff’s Labyrinth will absolutely be an exciting and awe-inspiring area, both for you to play and for us to design. =) But it’s just one small component of the full game, and not by any means the most exotic aspect we have planned.

It's also worth noting that Dana Knutson’s concepts aren’t necessarily literal representations of the Labyrinth's size or contents – your mind is malleable and the pathways it houses change and shift under your feet. Who can say what lies within its deepest recesses?

Collaborating with Obsidian on Tech

As you know, we’ve been working on Wasteland 2 in Unity and will be implementing Torment in Unity as well. Meanwhile, about 20 minutes away, Obsidian Entertainment is creating Project Eternity, also in Unity. Though there are major differences between our games, there are also similarities as all are RPGs built in the same engine. As many of you have suggested, it only makes sense that we collaborate where we can.

We are happy to announce that we at inXile and the great guys over at Obsidian have reached an agreement to share tools and technology when it makes sense. This will allow both companies to be more cost-effective on these projects, allowing your pledges to go further in terms of creating art, content, gameplay, and game polish. Vive le classic RPG revolution!

Another Major City

You’ve already seen Sagus Cliffs, which will be a major hub in the game. As part of an upcoming Stretch Goal, we’ll be adding the Oasis of M’ra Jolios as another prominent city location. Here’s Andree Wallin’s concept, Dust and Water, of this complex and bizarre urban ecosystem (wallpaper versions will be available soon at our website):

A gigantic dome of water shimmers in the middle of a vast desert, seemingly impervious to the cruel rays of the sun's heat. Curved obelisks from another age rise from the sands to cup and surround the bubble like gentle fingers.

This impossible oasis is home to numerous kinds of water-breathing abhumans. Some sport fins for legs like merpeople, some wear flippers for hands, while others appear almost human, being marked with only a dorsal fin from their head to their waist. No two are quite the same. Indeed, some are immigrants from far away, come to this aquatic utopia through strange pathways in reality.

But humans live here too, mostly for trade or work. They use various numenera to breath underwater – implantable gills, breathing apparatuses, portable air bubbles, and so forth. A town of air-breather buildings has grown up around the outside of the dome. These air-breathers are reliant on the dome, as most of their food (and all of their water) comes from within, but they make a good trade in the unique foods, animals, and textiles grown under the water. And of course visitors can find multiple shops in the air-breather town that will provide the varied numenera they need to enter the dome themselves.

Miscellaneous

April Fools’ Day

We’ll have a significant Update for you on Monday. It just so happens that’s April Fools’ Day. Rest assured that our Update will be real. =)

Video Q&A

We’ve opened a new Q&A forum on UserVoice. Post and vote for your biggest questions and Colin will make a video that answers some of the top voted ones. Ask away!

Closing Party
Just a reminder that if you want to celebrate with us at our closing party on Friday, April 5th beginning at 2 PM PDT, please login at tormentRPG.com and let us know – we’re looking to finalize the guest list today. We plan to broadcast live from the event and will send information next week on how to watch.

Some Words on Graphics

I’ve advertised that we’d say more about graphics this week. The most popular Stretch Goal request from you, our backers, is for 2D pre-rendered graphics, which would mean that Torment would have a fixed, isometric camera with 2D backgrounds. A primary disadvantage is that this approach requires a longer, and therefore more expensive, pipeline for art assets, but its advantages are numerous:

  • The same basic feel as classic RPGs (such as the Baldur’s Gate series and Planescape™: Torment) in terms of camera and environments
  • Environments will have a more “painterly” look, allowing us to more closely represent our concept pieces
  • By designing the art for a fixed camera view, every scene will look its best
  • System requirements will be lower

Because we are using a 3D engine, characters, effects, and some environmental props would still be modeled in 3D. This allows them to be changed dynamically during play (a 3D box could be opened, for example) and enables us to still adapt Wasteland 2 pipelines and underlying systems (such as for character animation).

A famous recent example of this approach in practice is the screenshot released by Obsidian for Project Eternity last fall. We agree with you that it would be the best way to realize our vision for Torment and have been investigating its feasibility throughout this Kickstarter campaign.

We’ve been carefully evaluating the costs and trade-offs, and it looks like a 2D pre-rendered graphics approach may be possible. We'll be showing you an example of what we intend, so you'll be able to see for yourselves why we're so excited about this approach. Being able to achieve this quality bar is only an option because of your great support – we are thrilled at the possibility that Torment could be as strong in its aesthetics as it will be in its storytelling and choices and consequences.

So what exactly will a Torment environment look like in-game? For that, I’ll have to ask for your patience a little longer – stay tuned next week!

Kevin Saunders
Project Lead

Comments

    1. Images.small

      Creator Thimotheion on April 2, 2013

      I don't usually comment in this kind of places, but here is my opinion:

      I don't really care much about 3D/2D. Sure, being capable of changing the view is quite important in state-of-art games and combats will be undoubtedly better in 3D (I would love seeing you prove me wrong), but letting the designers know exactly how will the user look at the scene will probably bring more awesomeness to the general picture. I just don't know, but, hey, I'm not the one who is making the game.

      Still, I feel queasy about minorities in the official forums having such a direct input. Probably you had the idea of using isometrics from the beginning, but I don't think that deriving from the poll that "Most of the backers would like 2D" is right, because the people that votes is really, really biased. Communities: Good for telling you how awesome you are, low level feedback, and having a constant stream of ideas. But not for this kind of design decision. I'd bet that the guy who had the idea of making that poll is crushing his head against a wall. xD

      Anyway, if you manage to put all this 2D/3D discussion in a little in-game joke, awesomeness ensues.

    2. Obsidian%20order%20ss%20-%20pd.small

      Creator Petite Death of the Obsidian Order on April 1, 2013

      @ Ted Bloechle
      My thoughts exactly - I just wouldn't have been able to word it as nicely as you. :)

    3. Missing_small

      Creator Ted on April 1, 2013

      @shevak

      While that is a rather persuasive list you've assembled, you did look over the fact that one really does sacrifice a certain amount of playability when you stick to 2D graphics. Having just played through Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate last year, I can firmly state that I sorely missed the ability to turn my character and look around at the world. It may be trite, but even the most self-actualized and wonderful game worlds lose a certain amount of depth when you're stuck looking at everything from the exact same angle. It also makes the tactical situation harder to assess or, alternately, makes the tactics far simpler.
      That being said, even if they do make the regrettable decision to make this game from a fixed angle, I don't think I'll be dropping my pledge--I fully expect this to be one of the most incredible stories I've ever had the pleasure to enjoy and that's the main reason I play games in the first place. I will, however, be quite saddened if this 2D nostalgia hampers what sound like fascinating game mechanics.

    4. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Starkillr on March 31, 2013

      With regards to the graphics, choose whatever looks best and is scalable.

    5. Krosp.small

      Creator Michaeljack on March 31, 2013

      @Gamma-Hamster

      Have you seen the Wasteland 2 alpha movie? would you really call that low budget low res 3D? shame on you!

    6. Missing_small

      Creator Nix on March 31, 2013

      You have no idea how to read graphs do you?

    7. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 31, 2013

      Youre laughable and blatantly cheap. The spike went 20K one the day of the last update - above previous and next days.

      http://www.kickstat.net/

    8. Missing_small

      Creator Nix on March 31, 2013

      Nah the "spike" was a few k and could be attributed to random variation. Plus yesterday's pledges dipped into the 20ks which hasn't happened in 10 days.

    9. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 31, 2013

      Actually.

    10. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 31, 2013

      There was a spike in pledges when the last update happened.

    11. Missing_small

      Creator Nix on March 31, 2013

      Looking at kicktraq the decision hasn't been too popular. Would have gotten a bigger boost if they had announced something else like improved game mechanics :/

    12. Idale2.small

      Creator Jhonrock on March 30, 2013

      "Chris Avellone ‏@ChrisAvellone
      Had the pleasure of seeing new #Torment screenshot, thanks to @BrianFargo. Looked amazing, then he told me it wasn't even *finished* yet."
      .
      Bring it on!

    13. Missing_small

      Creator Javier D Ricaurte on March 30, 2013

      OK, for those that don't want 2D pre-rendered graphics, instead of complaining here, vote here:
      https://torment.uservoice.com/forums/192241-stretch-goals/suggestions/3775588-3d-backgrounds-like-w2
      I personally don't care that much on whether is 3D or 2D, I think we'll get a great game either way, but I also believe that inxile will listen to all its fans and make a decision based on what most want, so if you don't agree just vote there so they can also see all those that want 3D backgrounds.

    14. Missing_small

      Creator nitrium on March 30, 2013

      @Adam Heine
      Thanks for clarifying that. That is pretty much what I hoped would be the case.

      @James Hurst
      I couldn't have said that better myself.

    15. Missing_small

      Creator Jymm on March 30, 2013

      Wow. Lot of wrangling about the graphics technology. I admit I was expecting 3D with rotating zoomable camera like WL2. But personally, I trust the developer to make the game. If I didn't, then I shouldn't be giving them my money. If they think its better one way vs. another, I have to go with their instincts. If you really feel that the fixed perspective is going to deny you the experience you were pledging for, then I understand. But I tend to think the game experience is a lot more than just a camera perspective and UI construct.

      And I have to say that I thought Nathan's video was the best so far. It was fun without being too cheesy, he was clear to understand without two dozen camera cuts, and he displays such a great passion for the project! Nice work. That's why I'm pledging for Torment, not because of some nostalgia for 2D games...

    16. Missing_small

      Creator Marco Torre on March 30, 2013

      I'll love the game nonetheless (i've not pledged your project based on the graphic engine you'd be going to use...) but the fact that you are going to use pre-rendered 2d background makes me SO SO SO HAPPY :-)

    17. Missing_small

      Creator Zturk on March 30, 2013

      @Sam S. an @Shevak

      I hope your right and it is not that much more expensive(would also love some confirmation from the devs) .I don't mind what the graphics are. I just don't want it to be a situation where I'm going to get half the game experience story wise just for a different art choice.

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      Creator smls on March 30, 2013

      @Zturk
      Regarding the relative cost, my theory is it's like this (although it would be great if the devs could confirm/deny):
      ---
      a) To get the *minimum* graphics quality that would be acceptable for Torment, using 3D would be cheaper than 2D. This is what inXile would have gone for if they had just barely reached the kickstarter goal of $900,000.
      b) However, because the kickstarter is going so well, they can aim higher now and actually target the kind of beautiful graphics and full artistic freedom that they would *ideally* love the game to have. To reach this higher quality target, the cost would increase somewhat compared to (a) in case they use 2D, but increase GREATLY compared to (a), or might not even be feasible at all, in case they use 3D.
      ----
      So the only sensible choices are:
      a) going cheap => mediocre-quality graphics using 3D
      b) going a little more expensive => awesome-quality graphics using 2D
      The backer votes in the forum did not influence what the devs thought was ideal, it only motivated them to dare to target this ideal level of quality, i.e. option (b), even if it's more expensive than (a).
      ---
      ^^ Well that's my theory anyways.

    19. Shevek.small

      Creator Shevek on March 30, 2013

      Zturk:
      These guys have more heavy hitting writers on this already than I would normally expect. Also, Obsidian stated during the PE kickstarter that rendering out these kinds of scenes takes far less time now than it did back in the 90s. So, time and money spent to do it may not be that much more. I am also sure that collaborating with Obsidian on tech may significantly mitigate the cost and time of this process.

    20. Machinarium-push.small

      Creator smls on March 30, 2013

      @Huinehtar
      Yeah, it's weird how some people simply can't image anything other than real-time 3D for a modern game, as if that's what defines PC gaming.

    21. Missing_small

      Creator Zturk on March 30, 2013

      @shevak
      However the torment team said that the 2d approach is more expensive which means less money on story.

    22. Shevek.small

      Creator Shevek on March 30, 2013

      edit: "If the game gets this through 2D which sacrificing gameplay or narrative, then why should the title be criticized for going 2D? "

      should be: "If the game gets this through 2D WITHOUT sacrificing gameplay or narrative, then why should the title be criticized for going 2D? "

    23. Shevek.small

      Creator Shevek on March 30, 2013

      Why 2D is better than 3D (lets try some logic...):

      1. 2D ages better:
      If you go back throughout the history of video gaming, 2D titles have aged far better than 3D titles. A good example of this is Realms of Arkania: Star Trail for those that remember that game. I like that example since it had a "hybrid approach." It had first person 3D wandering in towns, a 2D top down overworld travel map and a 2D isometric battle interface. The 2D bits all look "OK" and bearable for those looking to experience an older title but the 3D is absolutely atrocious. Honestly, 3D always ages badly.

      Another example would be the Temple of Elemental Evil. This is often cited as an example of how good 2D can look and with good reason. Its backgrounds were pretty high res (though not nearly as high res as what PE or Torment will achieveI, it had animated trees/water/etc, it had nice effects, etc. If you compare it to 3D crpgs released around the same time (namely Neverwinter Nights 1), it has aged much MUCH better than its contemporaries. Interestingly enough, the 3D bits of ToEE are its only real visual flaws nowadays.

      Why does this matter? Well, a crpg should be able to stand the test of time because you will not hit it and quit it. You should want to play it many times with difference builds or decisions. You may want to replay it later on after some years have passed and enjoy a new adventure or relive you old decisions again. Its nice to have the game still look a least OK after some time passes. 2D gives you that.

      2. 2D games have lower hardware requirements:
      This is a Kickstarter for a game that has a very limited audience. In other words, a very small percentage of the gaming community is interested in this kind of game. Most other are off playing CoD, Japanese Dating Sims, Angry Birds or some such and couldn't be bothered with something like this. It must be funded through Kickstarter since publishers don't give a damn about games who go for such a small slice of the gaming pie. On a similar note, since so few folks make up this game's audience, it would be unwise to put up too many roadblocks that limit that small audience from access to this title. Full 3D would present a significant roadblock as they would dramatically increase the system requirements.

      I do think a Torment like game CAN be done in 3D (with some loss in detail, of course). However, I am positive that hardware wise, it would require quite alot of muscle to render in real-time the curvature, spikes, crazy statues, psychedelic landscapes and other irregular geometry we have seen in concept art. When PE had its Kickstarter going, one of the things devs said often was that 2D allows them to do things in over-world and dungeon design that would be very taxing to render in 3D. They spoke from their experience working at Black Isle and I trust them very much in that assessment. If they went 3D, the devs at inXile would have to choose between WOW-like simplistic cartoon graphics to make the game accessible to all of its limited audience or very high 3D visual fidelity that would further limit its already limited audience and probably cause the game to flop. Why make that choice? Why not go 2D to have high visual fidelity and include as much of its limited intended audience as possible?

      3. 2D has some aesthetic advantages:
      Irrespective of the above points, 2D will continue to be more detailed than 3D for the foreseeable future and have some core aesthetic advantages. Even if you ignore hardware requirements and go to make a game that only a top gaming rig can run at 1080p with Ultra High settings, it will not have the crisp visual detail of a well done 2D image at that resolution. Antialias all you want, but the jagged edges will still be visible. The majority of objects will still look like blocky children's toys. The game will still feel a bit blurry.

      Also, 2D better achieves a painterly look similar to game concept art. This is not to say that 3D cannot achieve such an aesthetic but 2D flat out does it better.

      If we are talking about a game that is meant to be played in a fixed isometric perspective, then why give up those 2D advantages? 3D is better for titles meant to be played first person or over the shoulder (obviously). Also, 3D makes sense for a title like Wasteland 2 that uses guns/cover, destructible environs and the like (though even there, I would have preferred 2D - imagine a high def Jagged Alliance 2 in true 2D glory... hmmm). However, 3D just does not make sense for this game. I am really surprised to see even this vocal minority making noise for it.

      Conclusion:
      There are more core points but those are the top three. I firmly believe the only real reason folks are arguing for 3D is that publishers and the mainstream gaming press have convinced themselves and many of us that some features must be present for the title to be "good." They have set up rating systems and the like to quickly communicate to themselves and to us how "good" a title is. In other words, "3D" has become little more than an industry buzz word to be bandied about as short hard for "new" or "modern." Sadly, they (and many of us) have lost sight of the game itself. The goal is an attractive, realized world. If the game gets this through 2D which sacrificing gameplay or narrative, then why should the title be criticized for going 2D?

      I think we should all applaud inXile for making the correct LOGICAL choice and going 2D. It is the best choice for this game and the game will be better and more successful for it.

    24. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Свободный Раб on March 30, 2013

      I DEMAND 4D GRAPHICS otherwise i take back my pledge and fall into depression.

    25. Missing_small

      Creator Zturk on March 30, 2013

      Story looks amazing guys! That being said story is the most important thing to me and if its more expensive to create the 2d environments will that take away from resources that would go to making a larger world and deeper story?

    26. Missing_small

      Creator will_ssi on March 30, 2013

      Hey inXile-

      Please please have more stretch goals ready for the final days! If PE is any indication, you could pull in 1mil+ in the last 24 hours, and having goals that motivate further giving will only help shoot that number even higher!

      Don't get caught with you pants down (well, unless you want to...)!

    27. Idale2.small

      Creator Jhonrock on March 30, 2013

      Pledges being cancelled? What i can see here is the count increasing more and more.
      Does this people really think that inXile could achieve the same visual quality of games like Skyrim or Dragon Age (as some people already said here) with a budget of less than 4kk?
      Look at this http://media.obsidian.net/eternity/media/screenshots/0001/PE-TempleEntrance01-2560x1440.jpg
      Can anyone really think that is possible to achieve this level of visual quality in 3D with a budget so small?
      Some people here have wrong conceptions about pre-rendered backgrounds. Not everything will be static in the scenario, today's technologies can put a lot of whistles and bells to give more life to it. You can have some level of wind effects, shadows, even dynamic lights.

    28. Missing_small

      Creator Arno von Pfaler on March 30, 2013

      The (major) issue I have with pre-rendered 2D is the LOCKED VIEWPOINT. I don't care about the gloriousness of the resolutions if my modern _UI_ sensibilities get grated all the time I want to look at some interesting tidbit but get forcibly enforced to one particular view on it.

      Usage rail-roading is for me as immersion/experience breaking as story rail-roading.

    29. Missing_small

      Creator Gamma-Hamster on March 30, 2013

      I am shocked by the ammount of "censored" demanding 3D for Torment. Seriously? Torment in low budget low res 3D? 3D AAA games only recently started to achieve a level of quality similiar to prerendered 2D backgrounds!

      2D and only 2D, please!

    30. Pow.small

      Creator Dave Comley on March 30, 2013

      Thoroughly enjoyed the Ulrika the Vampire trilogy as well as Gotrek and Felix novels so I'm looking forward to reading and enjoying whatever Nathan creates for both Torment and Wasteland 2.

    31. Missing_small

      Creator Martin Greip on March 30, 2013

      Pre-rendered doesn't matter the slightest for me, but I'd prefer to give you that decision. I gave you money to make the game you want to do. If you make the game I say you should do then I will simply have a game I've already have played (at least in my mind).

    32. Gaf_twin_we.small

      Creator Noviere on March 30, 2013

      I don't think the technique used for the art(2D or 3D) has anything to do with whether something is "soulless" or not.

    33. Weeaboo.small

      Creator Richard Luijten on March 30, 2013

      Guys, guys, did anyone think of the possibility that maybe they've wanted/planned to do 2D from the start and they just used the high vote count to further back their decision up?

      Also it is quite hilarious to see these people who 'just pledged to play a deep and engaging RPG again' threaten to pull out their money for the graphics.
      Go back to playing Dragon Age and Mass Effect then, enjoy your soulless 'State of the Art'.

    34. Img_4186.small

      Creator Phil Creswell on March 30, 2013

      @Hiver: No, I'll drop my pledge from the over 150 I'm spending now to a plain digital copy. I guess my desire to play through someone's nostalgia kick is a lot weaker than my desire to play a game that has both the story strength and feel of P:T and the updated graphics and feel of Wasteland 2.

    35. Missing_small

      Creator Willie on March 30, 2013

      Love the concept art for the second major city. The description provided makes it sound fascinating and very intriguing, just the way a Torment inspired game should be. Also very excited at the prospect at a 2D detailed backdrops, this would indeed make the game even better I believe and add tremendously to its visual aesthetic. Quite interested to see what amount those stretch goals will be at. Keep up the great work guys, really getting excited for this...why must Dec 2014 still be so far away...

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      Creator Huinehtar, Tmted Reign for Eternity on March 30, 2013

      I am a bit sad to see some people thinking that "modern = 3D". I mean it is just like saying that drawing is not enough, painting is useless, photographing is the only representation manner that would have been to consider. Or do not even consider painting and photographing, sculpting is the only way of new arts. And what about hand-made sculpting? With technology, industrial sculpting would only matter. Or saying "do not even think about writing/reading books, go making/watching movies! And not 2D movies, but only 3D movies!" And why consider movies which fail to deliver interactions? Just consider games! Virtual reality 3D games! And so on...
      Technology is not a base to define art. Each approach can be used to show the designer's vision. It's related to sensibilty. Arts are not a race for the technology. It is just my opinion (I do not criticize "3D is better" - it's another point of view - I was just criticizing "3D is the only way now").

      @Adam: thanks to clarify your approach. Can't wait for 2014 ;-)
      Will there be some romantic vampires with birds and wearing red boots, wandering in the Bloom? :D

    37. Img_0282__square2__800x800.small

      Creator Adam Heine on March 30, 2013

      @Nitrium -- Those are valid concerns, but don't worry. We take both votes and the idea into account. The votes help us know the difference between people just being loud about an idea or whether people actually want that idea, but there is no case where a vote could make us use an idea that went against our vision.

    38. Missing_small

      Creator nitrium on March 30, 2013

      Just to clarify my last statement further (an edit function would be nice): what I meant to say is that pitching for ideas is fine, but allowing the community to decide which said ideas are good, is not. Good ideas should be self-evident to the developer - even if he/she didn't think of it themselves. I'm worried that "voting" for ideas will ultimately lead to a generic mess. If they are ignoring the votes, then why on Earth have the feature?

    39. Missing_small

      Creator nitrium on March 30, 2013

      @Jean-Luc Picard
      Well I sincerely hope you're right. Personally, while it would bad enough if an artist was adversely influenced by single person, it would imo be far, far worse if they created something based on some sort of awful average "we want to please everyone" concoction. I'm hopeful (and still confident) Torment is safe from this, but the very FACT they are pitching for ideas from the community isn't necessarily a great sign for things to come... and I find that somewhat disconcerting.

    40. Picard3.small

      Creator Jean-Luc Picard on March 30, 2013

      Wasn't addressing you specifically Nitrium but everyone reacting to the 2D news by saying it's due to "design by committee" (dbc). But if you believe it's "gathering momentum" then you must believe it does exist to some extent and are likewise reacting to the news.

      What I'm saying is you're all reacting to a false thing. There is no dbc, there is no gathering momentum. This is what the developers always wanted, it is a core feature of the Infinity Engine rpgs. It's not something that the community pulled out of its ass and forced it upon a reluctant developer.

      Also keep in mind that it was inXile themselves who provided the voting system and special channels for making suggestions. It wasn't spawned by the fans.

    41. Missing_small

      Creator nitrium on March 30, 2013

      @Jean-Luc Picard
      "There is no design by committee, read the update carefully"

      I didn't say there was! Just that it's a movement that is gathering momentum "in Kickstarter games" (read MY post carefully ;-) ) - i.e. there is demand for it, NOT that it was being implemented in the case of Torment. I hope developers don't cave in this regard.

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      Creator Shevek on March 30, 2013

      Could I say, btw, that Long's video was pretty great. I think he put it all together very well.

    43. Picard3.small

      Creator Jean-Luc Picard on March 30, 2013

      There is no design by committee, read the update carefully:

      "We agree with you that it would be the best way to realize our vision for Torment and have been investigating its feasibility throughout this Kickstarter campaign."

      Read again:

      "We agree..." "...throughout this Kickstarter campaign."

      Understood?

    44. Missing_small

      Creator nitrium on March 30, 2013

      I think in the long run, no one will probably genuinely care one way or another in the 2D vs 3D debate. The developers will choose whatever they feel carries the story/vision for the game to the greatest degree. I'm completely neutral in this regard, because I can't 100% know what vision is in the mind of the developer, so can't make a proper informed decision as to what will do the game the most justice.
      I really dislike the "design of community" approach that seems to be gathering momentum in Kickstarter games (I very much dislike this whole "vote" for suggestions idea). imo it is HIGHLY detrimental to creating anything resembling a coherent vision, let alone art.

    45. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Bud Kulpecz on March 30, 2013

      I'd be excited either way they decide to go. I would enjoy a new 2.5D game though.

    46. Missing_small

      Creator Edgar Castilla on March 30, 2013

      Pre-rendered backdrops you say? Woo-ooo!

    47. Missing_small

      Creator Sylrissa Tormented Siren on March 29, 2013

      "2D?!?!? I'm upping my pledge to a physical tier now :) Way to go inXile. I knew I could trust you guys to make the right choice."

      I couldn't agree more, I'm already at the 250 level, tempted to increase it some more.

    48. Sleipnir.small

      Creator Mark Doherty on March 29, 2013

      @JDL 1500 or so votes (when you can vote up to 3 votes) from semi-anonymous users (who could create multiple accounts) out of almost 60,000 backers is very much not a majority ,so yes, it's only presumed that they're a majority because they're the ones who've put the most votes down. As I said, I don't care if it's 2d or 3d as long as the developers believe it's the best way to go. They're the ones who know their staff and their abilities and the money and time costs associated with both methods - a lot of the people who vote are not.

    49. 169.small

      Creator Sirius on March 29, 2013

      Inxile knows what it's the best for the game they wont make a decision based only on votes if they do something, in the end it is only because they think its the wiser to do, like any other decision regarding graphics, gameplay or story.

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