Funded! This project was successfully funded on April 5, 2013.

Update #6

Updated our Journal (6): Inhabiting the Bodies of Others, +1 Ziets, Life After Death

Hi Forgotten Ones,

We’re generally planning for 2-3 updates per week. If you're interested in more frequent Torment news, follow us on our Facebook and tumblr pages (and @BrianFargo), which we'll update more frequently.

TL;DR: Colin talks about the Meres (video). George Ziets is on board. Some glimpses into post-death gameplay. New $2.75m Stretch Goal. New Stretch Goal idea forum.

The Meres

Colin describes the Meres, which are the devices by which you’ll inhabit the bodies of other castoffs. You’ll learn about these early in Torment and they will be one of the tools at your disposal to solve various situations – or simply to explore more of the world, your heritage, and the nature of the Tides. Many of the Meres will be optional (or even hidden), and they are one of several ways in which the story is modular and reactive – which Meres are available to you at different points in the game will depend in part upon your choices.

$2.5M Achieved!

Thanks to you continuing to spread the word and add to your pledges, we’ve reached the next stretch goal, meaning that George Ziets will be joining the writing team! Welcome, George - Torment awaits! We are also adding a sixth companion.

Additionally, Monte will write a novella that will be added to the digital and printed novella compilations. (We’ll talk more about the nature of the novellas soon. You may think seven is too many... not so! We have many stories to tell...)

We will also implement the Castoff’s Labyrinth. Death in Torment will not be the same as “game over,” and there’s more to it this time than waking up in a mortuary. Your body is mostly immortal. Your consciousness, on the other hand, is a twisted place. When you die, your consciousness travels somewhere else, to a labyrinth of the mind.

The Castoff’s Labyrinth is a strange realm, a dreamlike maze of jungles, stairways, tunnels, and ruined cities. It’s your mind, but you wouldn’t know it from all that’s in here (I mean, what the hell is that dead, tentacled thing the size of a mountain range?). When you die in the game, you could always just reload, or maybe find the easy way out of the maze and back to your body. But you’d be missing out – it’s our goal to make gameplay after death compelling enough that you won’t even think about reloading. 

The Castoff’s Labyrinth is a bizarre and interesting gameplay area, one of haunting exploration and discovery. As it grows, its secrets become deeper and more complex. Its depths are called Fathoms, and each brings new secrets and -- for the determined -- new rewards. What types of secrets and rewards? One will be lost cyphers: Each time you die, a new cypher (a single-use numenera) appears in the Labyrinth that you can take back with you. As the Labyrinth gets bigger, more of these random cyphers will become available the deeper you go. More types of secrets are attached to upcoming Stretch Goals, some of which are described below.

For every 3000 Backers beyond 45,000 (roughly when the $2.5m Stretch Goal was reached), we will extend the Castoff’s Labyrinth by one Fathom. So at 48,000 Backers, we’ll be at Fathom 2, at 51,000 Fathom 3, etc. (As of this writing, we are well on the way to Fathom 2!) Each Fathom adds deeper playable content and reactivity, and more of the features reached through the Stretch Goals (e.g., like increased quantity and complexity of the Reflections discussed below).

We’ll soon have a graphical representation up to better show the Castoff's Labyrinth's twisted progression to deeper Fathoms. (Backers through both Kickstarter and PayPal will count toward determining the labyrinth's Fathoms.)

New $2.75M Stretch Goal (and an addition at $3M)

Many have requested more frequent Stretch Goals now that we’re in the slower period of the Kickstarter campaign. In addition to the Castoff’s Labyrinth gaining Fathoms, we are excited to announce the following at $2.75m (as suggested by manaf82):

Over a decade ago, an enthusiastic writer and designer broke into the games industry through a job in QA at Interplay. One of the games he worked on as QA was Planescape: Torment. It didn’t take long for Brian Mitsoda to prove his creative capabilities and move into design, eventually leaving Interplay and Black Isle Studios and becoming a key writer for the acclaimed Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines. I met Brian in 2005, when he joined me as the creative lead for Dwarfs, a grim prequel to Snow White that I was the lead designer on at Obsidian. Brian has since founded his own company, DoubleBear Productions, whose game Dead State, met with great success on Kickstarter last year. Brian will contribute his creative talent to Torment, bringing him back full circle in terms of his career. And what could be more fitting for a game that explores one’s legacy? (Fortunately, the schedules for Torment and Dead State make this possible.)

At this Stretch Goal we will also add Reflections of Companions and NPCs to the Castoff’s Labyrinth. These Reflections have different dialog and information than their living counterparts, and you will learn secrets about them that would otherwise remain hidden. (But are these secrets really about them? Or are they about you?) The more Fathoms within the Labyrinth, the more Reflections there will be, and the deeper their dialogues become.

Finally, we are adding another Castoff's Labyrinth feature to the $3m Stretch Goal: Secret Meres. These Meres (dependent upon the Fathoms) are hidden within the Labyrinth and are accessible only from your own mind.

New Stretch Goal Idea Forum

We have opened a new idea forum on our Torment Community specifically to get your input on what you’d like us to focus on for Stretch Goals. Already your ideas on our general Torment Kickstarter forum have helped lead us to the Castoff’s Labyrinth, George Ziets, and Brian Mitsoda as Stretch Goals. This new forum is specifically for Stretch Goal ideas and voting and will help us plan the path ahead – we have our own ideas, but we want to hear more of yours. We’re starting by limiting the number of votes to just 6 so that everyone has to choose carefully what is most important to them (but of course you can post comments anywhere). We’ve prepopulated this forum with some of our thoughts, as well as several others you’ve mentioned in the forums or comments already. Please share more.

Over 3500 of you have already joined our User Voice forums – but if you haven’t yet, please register at our website and add your voice!

Colin’s Apology (Part 1)

In case you missed it, here is Colin’s best attempt at being apologetic for the imbalanced Complete Book of Elves. (Are you convinced he’s really sorry?)


Have a great Wednesday!

Kevin

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Comments

    1. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Johan Ankerstjerne Otkjær on March 27, 2013

      Upped to 350.

      DAMN YOU.

    2. Fb_profile_picture.small

      Creator Pacal_II on March 16, 2013

      So as I understand the setting of Numenera is our earth, not a different planet colonized by humans a long time ago?

    3. Pa_profile_3.small

      Creator Hakan Karaduman on March 15, 2013

      Do we get all novellas at 45 dollars tier? Because i really want wasteland 2 also.

    4. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 15, 2013

      I know but, death in PST was a different kind of a thing.
      It was beneficial only in specific scripted events or situations arising from the story. And it wasnt trivial at all.

      In usual gameplay there was no overblown benefits like valuable unique items dropping from your "mind" every single time you died, in addition to everything else. The drawbacks were of lite nature too.
      Usually players would simply re-load rather then be forced to run back to the place where they died from the Mortuary. And later on even that wasnt necessary.

      Still, it was presented as something that had indirect negative consequences in the lore and in the plot.
      That served to make the story deeper and to provide some story driven sub quests, for example in relations with and reactions of your companions.
      And it would make shades more numerous or stronger as a direct balancing feature - though that wasnt a big problem either, technically speaking.
      Rather, even that ended up being a benefit - completely unintentionally.

      Now, if we consider this new take on it in this sketchy, very early version one could argue that death now helps you to advance the plot or your goal in several very positive ways.

      As Adam pointed out, the team is aware of this and they will balance it.
      .
      Too much of a good thing can be bad. Especially in games. Especially those with choice and consequence and reactivity as one of the pillars of design.
      .
      Imagine you play a usual DnD game but you are able to cast all spells as many times as you like from the start.

      Or imagine valuable new equipment jumping out of your body every single time you die in Diablo and you just getting up and continuing.
      .
      It would be great, wouldnt it?
      .
      Of course, i dont need to say this to the devs.
      Im saying this so the rest of you dont misunderstand and take my suggestions as something they are not.
      .
      After all, Dakkon would easily agree with me. ;)

    5. Missing_small

      Creator Wyatt on March 15, 2013

      Keep in mind that with the original Torment death was usually just a mild inconvenience and sometimes necessary to advance the story. It looks like TToN will be similar. Death isn't bad because you're dead, it may even have some perks. Death is bad because it means you've been stopped from advancing toward your goal. No matter how fun being dead may be you've still got to think or fight your way around what's killing you eventually or you've lost. In that respect there are some Adventure Game elements mixed in with the RPG. To my eye, the triviality of death is part of what makes a game Torment-y.

    6. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 15, 2013

      @LnGrrrR

      While i would of course welcome features to balance the many benefits Labyrinth seemingly gives... i dont think taking away players options and choices is the right answer.

      What i prefer and try to advocate is providing some challenges and obstacles that would be interesting to play through. Overcoming challenges and obstacles is what the RPGs and games in general are about.
      It provides a sense of accomplishment and taking away players choices and options diminishes that.

      As for benefits, as i tried to explain bellow, some just dont seem plausible... at least based on this early very sketchy info we got.

    7. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 15, 2013

      Talking about features of the game this early in pre-production and presenting those to the public are not "spoilers".

    8. Missing_small

      Creator LnGrrrR on March 15, 2013

      What if the more often you died, the less control you had? Maybe during conversations, instead of your usual 3 or 4 choices, you only had one choice that was written in a different font to indicate someone messing with your choices? Taking away choices from a player is a good way to scare them into not dying. :)

    9. Hexy.small

      Creator Jesper Enbom on March 15, 2013

      @Hiver Let's not go that way, just no. Those two comments I wrote is not that.. and I am not going to talk more about this.

      @Duskwind It is just that I like following updates until they reach their end-timer, to know how things are going and so on.

      @Adam That as well, I just took it up because I felt the need it was important to say but as you can see below, we really discussed it out and I am sure this update will mean very little at 2014. At least less than I made it out to be.

      Now I am fully done,

    10. Img_0282__square2__800x800.small

      Creator Adam Heine on March 14, 2013

      @Jesper (and others who are worried about spoilers): It's a valid concern, and one we are trying to be very careful about. As you and others have said, it's a balance. If we reveal too much, we risk you guys feeling that the game has been spoiled. If we reveal too little, we risk losing interest and trust.

      Just know that (1) we do have to reveal, or at least hint at, *some* things because we're asking for your faith and trust, but also (2) there are heaps of things we're *not* telling you :-) Honestly, the stuff we've revealed so far is the equivalent of revealing that the Nameless One is an immortal who loses his memories every time he dies.

    11. Duskwind.small

      Creator Duskwind (Exile in Torment) on March 14, 2013

      @Jesper Enbom - you could just not read the updates...

    12. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 14, 2013

      It seems i hurt Jesper feelings.

      Sorry about that old chap. But some things are sometimes necessary to be mentioned or put into perspective. Strike while the iron is hot, as they say in my country.
      That means that when the iron gets cold you cant change its shape or qualities anymore and then youre stuck with any inefficiencies in it.

      Whatever i said below is based on a very, very limited info of a feature that is in no way fully designed yet.
      There is going to be NINE months of pre-production (design) of content for the game before anyone starts building any of those features into the game.

      Maybe im wrong, but it seems to me you have a bigger problem with my comments bellow then with the actual info that is released.

      You also accused me below of "doubting the developers", as if this is some kind of religion.

      While i in fact think they are really, really good master smiths.

      Im just trying to help, so we all end up with the best piece of steel as possible.
      And you know what they say about steel. It also has to be able to bend and flex a little. Otherwise its too brittle and it easily breaks.

      :)

      If im wrong and you only want to read less info well then, its easy. Just read the TL;DR version or dont read updates at all.

      You cant censor everyone because it bothers you.

    13. Squirrel.small

      Creator ThomasN on March 14, 2013

      Upped for Brian to show that quality is always worth it in the long run

    14. Hexy.small

      Creator Jesper Enbom on March 14, 2013

      @Quantomas
      And we know from the first Castoff's Labyrinth post that something will grow stronger/freer each time you arrive there but what it is have not been revealed which is good for us all and if it positive or negative for the player that remains to be seen.
      I know there is still place for so much more such as dangers and more than what they have said and that what they said is probably just a small part of the whole Castoff's Labyrinth. It is just some things are better kept hinted towards and not revealed at this level of information. (And that is where many arguments came from.)
      I really don't know what to say now because I have said all I can think of down below. I have been constructing the whole argument the whole day from one thing to another and then finally to what I have written. It was just something I felt the need to adress. To be honest this whole began as a something completely different, a subject that would too easily go the wrong direction.

    15. Missing_small

      Creator Quantomas on March 14, 2013

      @Jesper
      If you think about it not that much has been revealed about the Castoff's Labyrinth.

      When I first heard about it, my first thought was it might be a special place possibly on a different plane where a cult has made its home. Being revealed that it is actually a place from your mind, doesn't reveal that much but rather adds to the mystery. It's nice to know that consciousness plays a bigger role and even manifests in a real place and game mechanics.

      Beyond that we know of Fathoms, of tangible rewards and NPC reflections. The latter is probably the biggest reveal.

    16. Hexy.small

      Creator Jesper Enbom on March 14, 2013

      @Quantomas
      Thanks for thinking so, I am just not used to get a valid comment about what I have to say and so on. :)
      I guess we will just have to wait to see what ends up to become. 16months is kind of a long time after all and I am sure much will have happened by then.

    17. Missing_small

      Creator Quantomas on March 14, 2013

      @Jesper
      You don't sound negative at all. It's a valid point you make.

      But the question is whether the game mechanics for the Castoff's Labyrinth wouldn't have to explained anyway in a manual, so it *might* be just the intended level of clues to pique the curiosity.

    18. Hexy.small

      Creator Jesper Enbom on March 14, 2013

      Like I mentioned(Sorta) twice, what I've written sounds/feels more negative than I actually mean to be.

    19. Hexy.small

      Creator Jesper Enbom on March 14, 2013

      @Quantomas
      I faith in InXile from all the names and the level of writing they have shown and so on, I just wanted to write something that had buggered my mind all day from comments further down below. I fully understand they need to tell us and show uss something! Just at the same time I felt the need to just mention something as deepily thought out as Castoff's Labyrinth should be handled with care. :)

    20. Missing_small

      Creator Quantomas on March 14, 2013

      @Jesper
      I think the idea was to put something into the public that fulfils a similar function as Project Eternity's mega dungeon. Something that can grow with more backers. You have a point that there is a fine line to be walked what to reveal to the players in advance and what not. But it might turn out that inXile does exactly this, and we might agree once we see the full picture while playing the game one day.

    21. Missing_small

      Creator Lywald on March 14, 2013

      Bloodlines is in my top 5 of best games ever. ..
      This is the most exciting news I could read.
      So nice.

    22. Hexy.small

      Creator Jesper Enbom on March 14, 2013

      I hope someone from InXile will read it it supposed to say!!! >.<

    23. Hexy.small

      Creator Jesper Enbom on March 14, 2013

      I just want to start that I do not mean to sound as negative that I will be sounding in this post and that someone from InXile will read this comment due to put more care into the future.

      This update about Castoff's Labyrinth has a bit too much information and details, more so than is necessary. The one person who said that it might be a good idea keeping compainions secret had a point, wouldn't that make keeping areas as less-detaily and secret as possible an even better idea? Don't take me wrong of course you need to give us an update and clues of what is in your minds but I cannot help but envy those who does not follow this kickstarter in 2014, picks this up for the first time and plays it without having a clue what Castoff's labyrinth is, they are surely being hinted off it but they have no clue where it leads to and when they found it they can experience it all, the charm and so on... (Giving them in a way a superior experience compared to us backers, when it should be an equal.)

      This update is not going to let us the backers enjoy the experience of discovery of something in the game and experience directly and unknowningly so, instead it is like a forced game guide telling us what is going to happen before we even get to experience it. It is too much information and details than we need to know just as the stretch goal at 2,75m is. I as a backer who wants to have the full experience of the game would surely enjoy getting informations but not details. Never details like this! Instead of saying "reflections of Companions and NPCs" in the Castoff Labyrinth it would had been better saying: "Extra characterized content in the Castoff's Labyrinth."

      I just felt the need to criticize this update because if you're going to keep companions a secret, then please do so with areas as well! Mention a area or make something short explaining it. But don't go telling us what we will have a head of us! Let us imagine that and be suprised by the result, instead of hand-held by each area we might get to live through.

      That is all I wanted to say, keep updating as you do but just don't speak of this level of details when it comes to places I will be in the game, it will make me want to rush the other way when ever an update arrives rather than being curious what promising ideas that you might have for us next.

      I know. I sound to negative but I just felt the need to get this out of me. As a backer I surely do want to be able to help the game in ways, or see people give ideas that have inspired their team which have happened! But I do not want to have my gaming experience ruined by you telling us too much.(Which is one of the two major issues in Kickstarter, information needs to be not to little and not too much.)

      Just don't start a war out of this post. I am just trying to be critic to make sure that InXile doesn't give us too many spoilers, after all we backers want to be able to enjoy the game at an equal level like everybody else don't we?

    24. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 14, 2013

      Apparently now its a "diary" :lol:

    25. %e5%a4%b4%e5%83%8f.small

      Creator Yong on March 14, 2013

      Every time I see new update,I heard my voice said "Updated my Journal"

    26. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 14, 2013

      Monte said:

      The Benefits of Limitations

      Strangely, I have found that putting even the slightest limitations on the setting (and more specifically, the power behind the setting–the causes of all the perceived effects) has broadened it, not diminished it.

    27. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 14, 2013

      Another very sensible balance that would be very easy to accept by all players would be having negative consequences of your resurrection in dealing with NPCs. If you are "killed" and then you return again - many would fear you. Some would even try to get that ability for themselves - which in the game might mean that some neutral or friendlies turn against you.

      Such reactions were something that was missing in PST btw.

    28. 1up_800_white.small

      Creator Christian on March 14, 2013

      The Complete Elves apology was hilarious :D

    29. Missing_small

      Creator Globbi on March 14, 2013

      Since the Labyrinth is inside your mind and you look for connections or projections of real world, then going there repeatedly most likely won't work. New paths or fathoms should appear after meeting important/interesting people and having had crazy things happen to you. Dieing repeatedly could in some cases lead to more dialogues and rethinking some previous choices but more often the Labyrinth should be simplified or skipped. But then we arrive back at point of death leading to waking up somewhere, which is not that terrible though.

      Something I'd like is having storyline adjust when you die. You fall and not die, but you companions keep fighting or are captured, or maybe they run . Maybe in some cases you should lose something that you'd possibly gain from winning battle but gain insights from your metaphysical journey.

      Maybe at some point you would subconsciously cast yourself into one of your companions and control him thinking that you just wander through Labyrinth. That could lead him to getting an item which you find in your vision.

      As a lot of encounters are unique the possibilities are there. I hope this Labyrinth really works out and makes sense.

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      Creator RATS on March 14, 2013

      Wow, Mitsoda is on board!

    31. Nexusavatar.small

      Creator Theobeau:OOoE\Mad man with a box/Exiled on March 14, 2013

      Great update with the Labyrinth idea a fascinating.

      Like other posters I wonder whether in game I'll seek death as to get more chances to explore it or whether the game will impose some cost for constant travel to the cast-off's broken mind.

      Keep up the fascinating updates and here's another +1 for Ziets. Now if only we could get a MCA stretch goal.....

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      Creator manio on March 14, 2013

      The Meres sounds fantastic . I like them as i liked pretty much that idea in shadowrun when one class could transfer his essence to a robot so that he could control it and explore around , pass through halls , spy on enemies etc. or in Dishonored where you could really possess others. Generally i like the whole "im_gona_enter_your_body" theme veeeery much!

      Man, when you say this game can't possibly be any more awesome inXile crazy people manage to keep you amazed. New awesomeness level : Its over 9000!

    33. Dawn.small

      Creator ET3D on March 14, 2013

      I like the idea of the Castoff’s Labyrinth. I wonder if it will make me get my character killed repeatedly just to see it more. Hmmm, any suicide mechanics in the game?

      And I love Colin's apology. It's not completely satisfactory of course, and I think he should do a few more of them until he gets it right.

    34. Avatar3.small

      Creator JonNik on March 14, 2013

      Brian Mitsoda eh ? You clever kids you... (reaches for wallet)

    35. Rukally-thestrange-token-272x300.small

      Creator JDL | Stranger | http://kck.st/16fNM7k on March 14, 2013

      Monte Cook discusses life after death (and other stuff) in Numenera: http://www.montecookgames.com/distinguishing-it-from-magic/

    36. Hexy.small

      Creator Jesper Enbom on March 14, 2013

      @Hiver Something they said the first time they mentioned Castoff's lybyrinth on an update was pretty clear that some part of The Forgotten One(You) will become more dangerous and more powerful the more you die. I do understand your point and many others but I just want to say this to everyone really: Stop doubting them so much, I am pretty sure they know sorta what they're doing and will find a way to balance things out. These kind of games are their kind of expertise after all!

    37. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 14, 2013

      I think that the basic problem with the Labyrinth is that it has way too many benefits and no drawbacks at all.

      lets number all the benefits:

      1. makes you or helps you to be unable to die
      2. you can enter it without dying too
      3. you can explore mysterious areas and environments
      4. you can find Cyphers - physical objects with one-use, cobbled together bits of technology.
      5. secret Meres - also physical objects with many beneficial effects, from something small to allowing you to go into others people heads and experience their memories or even past.
      6. companion and NPC reflections you can talk to and get info from

      And all this, without any drawbacks or dangers at all.

      Now, you can just try to add some kind of negative consequence or a price or a drawback to balance all of these awesome things... but you could also first reduce the number of awesome great things this Labyrinth is granting you so nicely.

      And would it be so strange to remove the physical stuff from it?

      Or at least to change it into finding memories, clues or directions pointing to where these objects (cyphers, oddities and others) may be hidden in the outside world - which makes sense and is a nice motivation to go exploring... which fits with the whole theme of finding ancient artifacts and numenera in this mysterious weird world.

      Wouldnt that make sense?

      And then you remove the option of entering it when you want, or you reduce that possibility to specific scripted events in the first... half of the game... and you create some reasonable price or a limit or a drawback you can experience, especially if you keep dying too fast or too many times.

      After all TNO would loose his memories if he died , and he created shades which hunted him and even killed other people ....so why should we get everything easy and for free?

      hmm... Maybe each death would create numenera kinds of "shades" inside the Labyrinth... which could serve as a deterrent from killing yourself. and the more you would die it would get harder to avoid or beat them and to get out.

      What do you say?

      Adam?

      Sounds pretty good to me.... just logically thinking about it all.

    38. Missing_small

      Creator Roger on March 13, 2013

      @Adam Heine

      Thanks! =)

      Anyway, regarding death and "death penalty" kind of thing, maybe the Labyrinth could get more confused, and more "shattered", the more you die. Or maybe you die -> Labyrinth. You die inside the Labyrinth -> More twisted Labyrinth. Die again while inside -> Even more twisted. Do it again and it's game over.

      Basically, it's a death penalty in the sense that you have to dig yourself out, and you have a limited number of tries (becoming harder the more you fail). Like having lives in one of the old arcade games.

    39. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 13, 2013

      @ Daniel Comazzato

      Nah, its alright. I did say im looking for internal consistency rather then "explanations of future tech or magic" - which is of course silly to ask for, but i was also arguing about the same thing with several other people on another forum simultaneously. And they also though im asking for explanations of future technologies or magic. Which was very annoying in the circumstances.

      So i missed answering a few specific things and thats why all this post jumping around here.

      ;)

    40. Rsz_ferrus_manus__the_10th_primarch_by_1mpact-d555mrb_2.small

      Creator Cipher- Weaver of lost dreams on March 13, 2013

      @ Hiver there is no "magic" its science and tec thats so old and not really understood so its treated as magical. its set in a post apocalyptic setting

    41. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 13, 2013

      @ Duskwind

      Having some weird "technology" of Changing God still working and teleporting these items into our hands is more plausible option, or a theory... generally speaking.

      But i still dont exactly see why that must be forced in. And it does produce its own other potential problems and inconsistencies - although it is very hard to be precise about that now since we dont know much about many details surrounding these features.

      Its a matter of internal consistency of the setting. and there must be some rules, some limitations that make sense internally - instead of a hand waving since that opens a whole pandoras box of its own.

      As i said below, this is all very early in pre production and i have no doubt these things will be addressed and improved upon. Especially with a good team as this one is.

      but i have to ask.

    42. Duskwind.small

      Creator Duskwind (Exile in Torment) on March 13, 2013

      @Filip Stamate - how about risk of permanent stat decreases?

    43. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 13, 2013

      We also dont know how exactly magic works. How spells really work.
      But the way they are presented, with their own limits - makes sense.

      As, for a simple example, you cant throw high level magic spells until you reached that level.
      You cant create fire with ice or water spells, and so on.
      And you have to sleep to be able to cast spells again, or you have to wait for a cooldown in another system...

      this is what i mean, actually.

    44. Duskwind.small

      Creator Duskwind (Exile in Torment) on March 13, 2013

      @Hiver - it seems plausible that transportation or creation of objects you find in your head is tied to the same technology that the Changing God uses; at the very least that's already tech that acts remotely to transfer minds between bodies, and probably transports and/or creates new bodies for the God (I haven't seen any suggestion that the Castoffs had lives _before_ being inhabited by the God). I'll be happy if there's just some in-game acknowledgement that waking up in possession of a new item appearing from nowhere is unexpected weirdness for the character.

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      Creator Kamos | Exile in Torment on March 13, 2013

      @Hiver

      "You didnt give me a justification that really makes sense. You just gave me a superficial excuse that can be easily torn apart."

      It is a good thing I'm not working on this project, then. ;-)

      But yes, I agree, suspension of disbelief has limits. I think anything gamey, even if you can somehow make up an in-game excuse for it, will probably get exploited and end being silly. That said, lets see what they come up with. No doubt this will be covered in future updates.

    46. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 13, 2013

      Nobody really explained how specific things in Planescape Torment worked. We didnt know how you can become immortal like TNO did. But it made sense internally.

    47. Trog.small

      Creator Aelreth on March 13, 2013

      I liked your sourcebook Colin! Don't give in, we don't want someone that doesn't believe in his own work.

    48. Bola13_msn.small

      Creator Kamos | Exile in Torment on March 13, 2013

      @ Filip Stamate

      "If it's not dangerous enough to kill you, then what?"

      Hell, I don't know. I don't get why you're being obnoxious when I'm saying pretty much the same thing as you; this shouldn't be a place you go to for treasure hunting, in my humble opinion.

      So, something dangerous, but not death. Hm. Irreversibly changing your gender, maybe? That should have most people plenty scared!

    49. Drive.small

      Creator Hiver on March 13, 2013

      I understand that Daniel.

      But clearly there is no need to find physical objects in our heads.
      There are other solutions available. How advanced magic is and what excuses are given - do not matter at all. Especially if they dont impose any constraints on that "magical" effect.

      Suspension of disbelief has limits.

      You didnt give me a justification that really makes sense. You just gave me a superficial excuse that can be easily torn apart.

      You see, thats why even magic in a high fantasy setting has some limits.

      I appreciate the effort. But ... sometimes its just not possible to make things make sense internally without... making sense internally.

      I wasnt asking for an explanation of some advanced future technology.
      I was aksing for things to make sense within the rules of the setting. Just like they do in any good fantasy or science fiction where we also dont get an explanation how something works.

    50. Img_0282__square2__800x800.small

      Creator Adam Heine on March 13, 2013

      @Filip: That's a valid concern, for sure. In PST, at least, the times when you could *truly* die were very rare. The real danger (and the reason I reloaded most often, at least) was to your companions -- they didn't get up quite as easily as The Nameless One did.

      But mostly with PST the difficulty wasn't in not dying (which was trivial; you couldn't), but in passing the game's various obstacles and challenges, like any game. That's what we're envisioning as well.

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