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A story-driven CRPG set in the world of Monte Cook's Numenera.  We are deeply appreciative to all of you who made this possible. Torment: Tides of Numenera is available now for PC on Steam or GOG, as well as PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.
A story-driven CRPG set in the world of Monte Cook's Numenera. We are deeply appreciative to all of you who made this possible. Torment: Tides of Numenera is available now for PC on Steam or GOG, as well as PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.
74,405 backers pledged $4,188,927 to help bring this project to life.
Terrance Nelson and Minimage like this update.

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    1. Missing avatar

      anthony on

      There's been intelligence in this silly diatribe? It's set in Numenera, if you don't like the environment you shouldn't have backed. If you have ideas on how to create a great game, by all means go do it. But don't take a crap on a genre that works and an environment that is appreciated to satisfy your own selfish and narrow-minded ideals. It's fantasy, ffs, I don't go around wielding a sword all day. I don't want this PC bull we have to deal with all day in a game either.

    2. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      @ alcaray

      Those different behaviors you mentioned arose from social norms that derive from sexist societies.

    3. alcaray on

      I think you guys mentioning sexism are getting ahead of yourselves. Men and women *are* different. They often wear different clothes. They tend to choose their romantic partners differently. Their roles in reproduction are completely different. They use different restrooms (and do so for several good reasons) (if I recall correctly, the original Wasteland had a bit where you needed a female character who could go into the lady's room). My citing the above differences is not sexist. Making a game that notes the above differences (and others) is not sexist.

    4. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      Personally, I think a more creative choice would have been between a physically asexual character and a hermaphroditic character. Male and female is so First World. :)

    5. Kamos | Exile in Torment on

      If a game world reacts to several character traits, why should it not react to a character's gender? It is a bit depressing that any conversation that includes "gender: female" devolves into accusations of sexism in about five messages.

    6. Interstellar Marine on

      @ Chuan Q. Ho

      Of coarse. I have all the faith in the world for the developers.

    7. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      @ anthony

      It's very clear that you don't have anything intelligent to add to the conversation. Just save yourself the time and go do something else.

    8. Missing avatar

      Gero on

      Seriously, girls and guys, I don't get it. You obviously haven't played the game yet. As a matter of fact, you obviously don't have any clues how the idea is executed. While it is your right, of course, to voice concern in advance, it is actually not helpful if you pick the most extreme (sometimes apparently sarcastic) of this current discussion and/or in history to support your arguments.

      After all, this is an RPG, where you play a certain character. Hence it is nice to see as much features of your character as possible affecting the gameplay. There are lots of scenarios where distinguishing between male and female characters might provide interesting (positive!) challenges. I won't pick a specific scenario, since I have neither the time nor the will to discuss a possibly unlucky example to the infinite. I'm no game designer so I don't have to come up with such specifics. However, I have strong faith in the girls and guys at inXile to come up with a well execution of this idea.

    9. Missing avatar

      anthony on

      [sarcasm]
      What about left-handed characters? I'm not sure I can handle another game where I swing a sword right-handed!
      [/sarcasm]

    10. Daniel Schealler on

      @Starmaker

      Your point about FemShep is a very good one.

      Two quibbles:

      1) It *could* be good to have themes of sexual inequality explored in-game, so long as it is made very clear that the sexism in the game is *wrong*. Dangerous though in the sense that it'd be very easy to screw up.

      2) There's also a problem to consider when the go-to empowered female trope is basically to take the usual suspect of the a macho hyper-violent testosterone fueled warrior and wrap it in a female body mesh and female voice acting. Room should be made for empowered female characters that don't fall into this category.

      By way of example: I'm currently playing through Dreamfall: The Longest Journey. Zoë Castillo is IMHO a very good example of how to do a cool, empowered female character without having to go the route of just cloning a male action hero. Zoë is very girly, but still very cool. She's attractive, but struck me as being designed not as someone intended for teenage boys to look at, but rather as someone a teenage girl might want to be. And rightly so. I want to be Zoë too. Zoë's totally cool. ^_^

      Quibbles aside: Your point about FemShep is still a very important one too, and I can't deny the effectiveness of the lack of gender reactivity in that setting.

    11. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      @ Interstellar Marine

      Does the concept art for the female main character alleviate your fears? It sure does mine. And there will be a female writer involved as well in the design.

    12. Interstellar Marine on

      A non sexist portrayal of women is very high on my list of wishes from this game. I HATE sexism and I'm so tired of it that you couldn't believe.

      I want a game with some good female characters that are about other things than their beuty and such nonsense. No to sexism yes to some strong female characters.

    13. Missing avatar

      anthony on

      @James maybe they can throw in a few trannies if you ask....that post didn't look like a request though.

    14. Missing avatar

      anthony on

      @James this relates to this game how?

    15. Missing avatar

      James Sanders on

      @anthony: the biological differences between the genders only show up when you look at them in aggregate. For example, on average men are taller than women, but clearly some women are taller than some men. Most men share similar reproductive organs, as do most women, but a significant minority of people are trans or intersex and do not fit this pattern.

    16. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      @ Starmaker

      You keep insinuating that implementation of gender reactivity will inevitably result in pandering to heterosexual white male privilege. Why do you think this has to be the case? I can only think it's because you believe that inXile are INCAPABLE of non-sexist writing.

    17. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      @ Macha

      There were some elements of PS:T that were sexist. Annah's outfits (especially the bonus St. Patrick's Day outfit), all of the female prostitutes wandering around, etc.

      I'm all for every effort being spent to eliminate the sexism that pervades OUR world from affecting the setting of the game, but I'm also totally against making the Ninth World into some sort of utopian paradise. That would make for an awful game.

      Why can't inXile turn the tables and put some male prostitutes into the game? Or have homosexual relationships be the norm and heterosexuality the aberration? These are all good ways to subvert our expectations without turning the setting into teletubbyland.

    18. Missing avatar

      anthony on

      @Macha

      I shortened your post for you:

      I don't like Anthony.
      I don't like Nazis.

      Anthony = Nazi.

      Now we have some proper logical fallacy lol ;-).

      It's a video game. I sure as hell hope I can create classes that are different. I sure as hell hope I can play in any manner I choose. You can have your equality. I'll keep my logic and accountability.

    19. Missing avatar

      unsaid on

      I wonder if the expected duration of the game has been mentioned anywhere ? PS:T is my favourite game and it was actually so good that however long it was, compared to the games back in the day, let alone nowadays, I felt like it should've lasted more. I'm seriously concerned that in 2013 these great developers will just not be able to make a game nearly as long as Baldur's Gate / PS:T.

    20. ethereal on

      @inXile: look at anthony and Andrey. This is why gender reactivity is a bad idea.

      @Andrey: "real life touch"? I *am* in Russia, and I'm fed up with sexist nonsense like you wouldn't believe. So a game can have magic spells and floating islands and incarnations of the laws of physics, but it still has to pander to straight white male privilege?

    21. Shayira on

      " How can you misread honesty"

      Anthony, your argument is not honest but dishonest - and also reeking of your insecurities. You probably feel intimidated by women. Can't blame you, we're awesome :)
      Anyway, your cute argument was also used by the following groups:
      -Nobles arguing why equality with commoners was the downfall of civilization
      -White slave owners arguing why equality with slaves was the end of cilivized society
      -Germans (ie: people in my country, including my grandfather) arguing that equality with a number of groups (most of which you likely know) was the end of society.

      You're doing this about equality with the sexes. It's not any bit smarter than the other dudes that pulled it, and falls flat just like their tries. If you cannot handle that people mock you for using a logical fallacy that failed every time people used it, well, that's your problem :)

      @Chuan Q. Ho
      that was mostly at Andrew. See my earlier comment: I have no issue whatsoever with characters reacting differently based on character gender as long as it's not just affirming male gamer insecurities. Personally, I think characters should react in a LOT of ways to your character being different, not just the obvious ones. My only problem is that it's usually written so clumsily.

      And also why I think it won't be an issue here (as said in my first comment in this thread) - the writers are likely too good to fall down that road. Planescape Torment had some pretty awesome characters, after all.

    22. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      @ anthony

      You can disagree and still be respectful, or you can disagree in a manner that insults others. Your choice.

    23. Missing avatar

      limaxophobiac on

      @anthony

      Moving on and letting your horrid opinions stand uncontested? How about no. As for your original post yes gender equality (starting with legal equality between genders etc.) is a fruit of civilization, societies of old were not so patriarchal by coincidence, and neither did they stop being so by coincidence. It required among other things infant mortality to drop and adult lifespans to increase (both of these effects of increased civilization) to a point where women dont have to spend more or less the entirety of their lives producing children.

    24. Missing avatar

      anthony on

      Sarcasm is lost on the masses...Desperate manipulation of the word equality demonstrates a need to compensate for inadequacies.

      Hint: The word you're looking for is not equality.
      Hint: This has no place here, see RPG analogy.

    25. Missing avatar

      Dr. DMF on

      Looking forward to the Retrospective - great Idea! I think the 2 Millions will be reached tomorrow if it goes on like this...

    26. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      @ anthony

      In a game set in the far distant future, innate biological differences would be quite meaningless.

    27. Andrey Prokopenko on

      @Starmaker
      Every game is as real & appealing to you as it touches the connections to the real world you live in, whether you like the real world or not.
      You're so enthusiastic to make ideal virtual world, than it makes me sorry for your everyday life.
      Go and get a REAL life touch.

    28. Missing avatar

      anthony on

      Let's put this in RPG terms. Do you want a warrior to cast as hard as a wizard? That would be equal, but rather silly, no? Kinda like the current tc going on. Moving on?

    29. Missing avatar

      limaxophobiac on

      Oh FFS, @anthony no one here who is pro-gender equality actually thinks biologically male and female bodies are the same and as there is no way you don't know this I can't see your post as anything but trolling.

    30. Missing avatar

      anthony on

      @Macha Wow, insecure much. How can you misread honesty to be discrimination. There are some very physical differences. I for one won't be giving birth anytime soon. Disregarding these differences is far more ignorant than recognizing them. This argument has absolutely no place in a video game chat.

    31. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      @Macha

      I'm far from advocating that we appeal to casual sexism. In fact, I would be very impressed if inXile were to set their game in a matriarchal society where the male character would face disadvantages and sexism. THAT would be something original in a Western CRPG.

      What I'm against is rainbows, unicorns, and happily ever after.

    32. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      @Starmaker

      Your conflation of the "separate but equal" doctrine with implicit discrimination is quite absurd. That's on the level of PETA comparing animal farming with the Holocaust.

      Separate but equal was a legal distinction that had power in the legislatures, courts, and schools. That's a far cry from implicit racism or sexism that exists in our attitudes and actions.

      If the Ninth World is a place where not a single character anywhere is sexist, racist, or discriminatory, then it's a world of robots and there aren't any humans left, and I don't want to play any game set in such a world. Sorry.

    33. Shayira on

      " In fact the myth of equality has been the degradation of society for the last few decades"

      By the way, about fourty years ago, there were dudes that said exactly what you said - just about equality of races. That's the company you're in. Get that white hood while you're at it.

      You know what is worse than "political correctness" in a game? Appealing to casual sexism of insecure gamer nerds. Thankfully, we can be confident the writers here won't go down that road.

    34. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      Political correctness is one thing I most certainly do not want in a Torment game.

    35. Missing avatar

      anthony on

      @Starmaker What are you babbling about? Civilization is not defined by the recognition of equality of sexes. A != B. In fact the myth of equality has been the degradation of society for the last few decades. But what does that have to do with a video game? *sigh*

      Oh look a cuddly tree!

    36. Missing avatar

      Chuan Q. Ho on

      @Starmaker

      So your point is that you don't want to have to face sexism in a game, right? I understand that concern. But that's a very slippery slope we're heading down. Should this world be scrubbed clean of racism as well? Or of any type of discrimination against any possible characteristic possessed by any player? I think such a world would be unbearably boring and I would not want to read a novel about it or play a game set in it.

    37. Aaron on

      error, update character limit reached ;)

    38. Johan Lundström on

      I think you're gonna need more stretch goals. :)

    39. Denis Kugay on

      @Josape and @ Chris Conley: Chris, which is exactly the point :) Look at the text in the update. Adam's comment explains it by correcting it, and my English command has nothing to do with that :) Like you're saying - it's either and not both - which is the case in the main text. Oh, and below I've already replied to Adam on that. Also, note that I was not the only one misled, so no point blaming it on my being confused ;) It pays off well when people try and formulate exactly what they want to say - though, in this case it is totally understandable - this update came in such a hurry :)

    40. Missing avatar

      William T on

      I like Felicia Day and with that being said please please please DON'T have her as the lead female VA. Video game and Anime in the US use the same people over and over just to say person X is in it. Please just find someone whos voice fits the role and don't let the voice of an existing VA define the role.

    41. Shayira on

      Pledged. Took some effort, sadly, with how us Europeans are sadly a bit disadvantaged when pledging here :(

      On gender reactivity: Some level of gender reactivity is definitely nice, if it isn't shoehorned in. Female option is why I finally pledged (instead of possibly buying when it comes out), after all. I

      The writers just need to be sane about it. Which, considering these are TORMENT writers, I do not doubtl. I do not believe for one minute that the female MC will end up in a sexist nightmare world.
      A nightmare world, perhaps, but that's since it's Torment, not since different ovaries! I have faith, and I think it's not misplaced.

      Looking forward to future updates.

    42. Adam Heine on

      Exactly, Eckhart :-) Apologies for the confusion. I already pointed it out to Kevin (you're not the first to misunderstand our intent there), so hopefully it'll be cleared up tomorrow for everyone else.

    43. ethereal on

      TL;DR: inXile, please don't do "Separate but equal". It was ugly when Black people had to endure it, it's ugly now.

    44. ethereal on

      @Chuan Q. Ho: Either that, or an inexplicably sexist, nightmarish world. Do not want. When a writer thinks, "Now I have to write a set of options for the female character, because obviously a woman would behave differently in the same situation", they are being sexist. When a writer implements alternative reactions for the NPCs, the *world* is sexist - which makes sense when one is depicting a fairly realistic barbaric society on Earth (e.g. Fallout) - it is not inconceivable that the benefits of civilization will be lost with said civilization. But if an in-your-face magical, surreal world subscribes to the same "men from mars, women from venus" shit we have to endure IRL, that just sucks.

    45. Jozape on

      @Denis Kugay I just noticed you live in Russia. I assume you speak English as your second language. I can understand why you would be confused. We English speakers are too imprecise with our words.

    46. Devilution on

      The "Toy" = A boy and his Blob !! :D

    47. Chris Conley on

      @Denis: Again, read Adam's comment. Anyone who backed EITHER project gets the PS:T retrospective, not both.

    48. Missing avatar

      Eckhart on

      @Adam Heine Thanks for that!

      I think to avoid misunderstanding by others:
      "a special pledge reward that will be given to all backers of both Torment and Obsidian’s Project Eternity"

      should become
      "a special pledge reward that will be given to all backers of either Torment or Obsidian’s Project Eternity"

    49. Denis Kugay on

      @Adam, that's right - it's more of an "either or" than of "both and" :)

    50. Denis Kugay on

      @Josape, you might be just right, mate, it's all about the wording, it seems :)