by Koji Igarashi
@JasonRyan is there a way to find out if my suggestion for the game reached the team?
- Dragon Sage
The only cut feature I am aware of from Sotn was the unused Maria ending where she is possessed by a demon, and with regard to it being not a completely fresh sprited game, of course it isn’t as it is the direct sequel to Rondo. However it’s soundtrack and background assets are all 100% original as are a lot of the enemies, even if not all. There is some cut content in the original Region 1 release but it’s restored in the psp rerelease included in the Dracula X chronicles as well as a playable Maria for the first time outside of Japan. It’s debatable whether or not the Underground prison and Nuclear Garden were ever intended for the original game as they were added in by the Sega team, composed of an entirely different staff from konami’s original team. With regard to content, the game feels pretty complete to me and a good many other people as well. I don’t doubt there is content that hit the cutting room floor with Bloodstained however, during the development process. No game is ever exactly the same from start to finish of the development cycle, that’s just unrealistic. Things change and stuff has to be adapted for engines, platforms etc. I am not ignorant to how game development works.
Speak for yourself, I want to know what the hell is going on.
Well, you're saying the budgets don't line up with Timespinner vs Bloodstained and that's true, but your example I was working off of was The Witcher 3.
SotN itself had cut features and obvious signs of being rushed, on top of borrowing very heavily from Dracula X and other Castlevania games. It wasn't all sprited from scratch, and related to my first point, uses Richter's design entirely from Rondo when it was intended he would actually look like his character art (I saw that meme come up today where Dracula is asking Richter why his hair is long in his dialogue screens lol). Maria didn't quite make it at all (officially from Iga) until the PSP version of the game. SotN could have used more time, and already had a framework and sprites from Rondo to use for a lot of its assets. That's fine though, it's a sequel of course anyway.
How they communicate when the game is ready is a decision they've made that relates to the game being received the best it can be. That's a significant and maybe not even a popular decision for now, but in the long run we'll be glad we ate our vegetables.
Brent I wanted to like timespinner but it’s a bit too heavy handed with its message. Gameplay is great but it just doesn’t need to push an agenda. Also, timespinner likely didn’t have almost six million dollars behind it, or however much that Bloodstained raised when everything is taken into consideration like paypal on top of Kickstarter pledges. It’s understandable for something from a team with no other releases out there to take so long. Perhaps the Witcher wasn’t the best example, but my mentioning of Symphony of the Night sure is. I get not wanting to disappoint people by not giving a release date, they are fully within their right to do so, but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating to those of us who do think that being so secretive to the point of flat out refusing to even give a release window beyond an entire year span is kind of ridiculous.
Something related to that I just put up somewhere else...
They've actually said that the game -has to- release in 2019 for business reasons. There is a limit to timing for polish. A delay isn't "all fun" or just an easy procrastination method as some seem to think it is, since every week that's added to the development time without a product means more and more money (and of course the work itself). I think 99% of us understand that though, and sometimes we just get frustrated and there's an overflow of excitement/anticipation.
Also don't forget, that Igarashi & Co. are pretty much allowed to take their time and polish the game as much as they want. Normally, with big companies like Konami, EA, etc behind them, this would be nearly impossible. Also, don't forget that all the extra work they do is still based pretty much on the backed money. So all their wages depend on how much money is left there. I think they should use all the time they want to pull the little extra bit of greatness out of the game. And all the delays show one thing: They do WANT TO make an awesome game out of Bloodstained and I really hope it will perform well.
I also can't really understand why people are so frustrated about the delayed game release and all. There are so many great games out there. I just need to look at my pile of shame... so much to do, so little time....
well, to start, CD Projekt Red is a $2 billion company with 800 employees. I think it's one of Poland's biggest businesses. Can an indie film be made with the same resources as a Marvel movie, but expected to be just as AAA and timely?
Sure, Bloodstained raised "a lot" of money and they get a lot of help from 505, but the size and resource difference there is just too much. You could fit well over a dozen Bloodstained teams in that amount of people and money.
Check out Timespinner. It took longer than Bloodstained has to come out and everyone that's tried the game loves it (it's very Igavania in my opinion).
@devin if you fail to see the point you are truly clueless. The Witcher was a game with a much larger scope and far more content than this game will ever have and then was finished in three years. How can you not make the correlation that this game should not be taking so long?
I really don't see the point in a comment below comparing the time this game is taking in development to a game like The Witcher 3. They are two very different beasts.
They won't commit to jack shit on the date. Believe me I've tried for months to get an actual answer out of the fucking Community Managers, you'd be better off finding a wall to bash your head into to simulate the process.
I didn’t say it necessarily was going to be pushed into 2020, just that a delay like that would really squash any goodwill that’s left from those not being blindly understanding of the lack of substance in updates.
i know you guys are pushing for 2019. do you have a month and a day to go with that year?
They should add in Shantae and/or outfit as an easter egg. ^.^
@Geoff I'm just saying at this point I'd rather the product be good later than mediocre now. I'm not saying it's "okay" for it to take that long in the sense that I'd give it a full pass and I'd definitely be reticent to ever pledge in the future. But my money is already pledged, at this point I just want to make sure the product I get is worth the money, even if it took extra time. That being said they've said 2019.
The game won't get pushed to 2020. We are making it happen for 2019.
Riot? Only small % of backers are French you know :-) But if they push it too far they do risk people giving up or even forgetting about it.
Spenser you are out of your mind being willing to wait an extra year. There is no reason titles like Witcher 3 were completed in three years and this is taking this long. Symphony of the Night didn’t take this long to develop. If the release date gets pushed to 2020. People are going to riot. That would be five years for a game that is nowhere near a AAA title.
My personal opinion is that I'd rather wait and get a better product if that's what it's going to take then have it rushed. It's not a patreon, it's not like I'm paying any more money the longer I wait, so while it is frustrating and obviously I'd like a great product in my hands right now I'll do anything to avoid a might no.9 level product, even if that takes waiting another year.
Another fine update, but my patience is waning. If they are testing for bugs, or the like, then the game should be close to having a good prediction on a release date. Unless the state of the game is so bad that they might not even know when it will be fixed. Which worries me.
IntiCreates isn't involved any more? when did that happen? I don't recall that. That said, IntiCreate isn't all bad, iirc, they did the MMZ series, which was great.
hyper pancake, I can agree but only if it’s purely optional. I want Bloodstained to be its own self contained universe, not some indie crossover nonsense .
A Shantae inspired costume could be really cool.
Derrick, I'm not sure where you got that information, WayForward never had anything to do with Mn9. Inti Creates isn't involved with this game anymore, either.
WayForward's involvement with Might No. 9 is the only reason I have not to like this update as they were directly involved with IntiCreates/Comcept and the game still came out janky. If pushing it to 2019 guarantees a non-janky game in the end then so be it. I'd rather see more legitimate updates though because I don't participate on the forum.
Another day, another silent CM team. Don't work yourselves to death guys.
I said elsewhere but it seems releveant. It seems like a really bad idea to drop huge news right before the weekend and disappear. I'm not the only one speaking out this time, which is saying something.
Tory Scott, it does not say anywhere in the text that Wayforward is doing any sort of work testing for bugs, in fact it really isn’t terribly specific at all as to what they are doing. It’s one thing to tell people to stay positive but it’s another to give outright misinformation to them and act like they are ignorant for wondering otherwise.
@John A Sierra
Someone's in the cool kid's club here, better watch out for those sick burns. Backers are owed still explainations and accountability as part of the Kickstarter process. So you can play with the words and finesse them, but backers are invested in a real sense, as there would be no game without them so check your own damn ego before climbing onto your own high horse.
+1 Mark. Many missed opportunities. Great concept, but time now to deliver.
I will not ask "When?" I just ask you to release a good, high-quality and decent game.
You are not an investor. The entire point of kickstarter is for people to avoid investors, which often make demands as you have. Investors are the cancer that kills the independent gaming spirit, it turns them into soulless husks and before you know it, you have another empty, soulless "indie darling" that was made to please investors and not as a labor of love. I backed this game to support Igarashi, as he escaped Konami's Pachinko mines, a company that only cares about pleasing investors and not customers. You're neither, you're not an investor, or a customer. You're a patron, and Igarashi is an artist. You paid for him to be able to make the art he wanted to make, not a commission. So honestly, get over yourself and enjoy the game when it releases and stop acting like an entitled middle aged woman looking for the manager.
One dev response to 89 comments and counting. Let's hear it for the 1.12% response rate. Way to raise that bar lads. I knew they were going to pull some bullshit move for months and that vindication almost feels as good as getting the damn game.
I'm sorry, but I expected more from an update this far a long in development, this was very overwhelming.
Whatever your opinion on the update, I can say for certain that the CMs have terrible communication. Data is scattered across here, forums discord and reddit, and it still doesn't target valid points well. Horrible way to assuage worries and makes me think the end product will be similarly tainted by incompetence.
Sorry you feel that way. And it's too bad you couldn't get to play the demo, but for a bit on that, demo feedback was not limited only to people who had played it. The majority of the feedback collection was done on the forum, where it was not stated (nor possible to enforce actually) someone having played the game first before telling us what they'd like to see different about it. Some folks including myself put up their playthroughs of the game so that other people could watch and evaluate some for themselves how the game was coming.
It only being on PC is an unfortunate limitation, but I'd say an understandable one, given how much more time and work for them to push it out to all platforms, further complicating the collection of bugs being on different platform builds with inconsistencies in the game's setup and environment for the ideally more objective evaluation of the game's stability and performance...as well as polish/graphics, which is largely what was spoken on for the demo feedback. I read almost all of 2016's feedback and a nice chunk of the huge mass of 2018's, and I'd say it was very valuable to the team and apparently is being aptly acted upon.
We'll be talking again in a few months where instead of there being a 2020 announcement like some are saying, the game will likely have trailers and assets flying about that well display the fruits of decisions like the one announced in this update. It's going to be (and look) amazing.
Brent, I never said this was that sort of situation. I said that it could turn into that sort of situation. All I want is to see this come to fruition but the communication just sucks. The updates have been superficial and just awful lately and it’s concerning. They feature more fan art than info and that is just generally disconcerting. It feels patronizing to act like such minor things are exciting updates or that we should be excited for a new team to come onboard to help meet a release date when we don’t know what that date is, and you guys refuse to tell us, just wanting us to be patient because it’s coming sometime in 2019. This is after two big delays. I completely understood not being able to deliver in 2017, that would have been barely two years of development but then to bump it out of 2018 to an unspecified date in 2019 and refuse to even offer a release window beyond sometime next year, it’s hard to see why you can’t grasp people’s’ frustrations. There is no more Castlevania, this is the closest we will ever get unless there is some serious shake up within Konami, so having to be told to wait longer and remain excited with no real substantial indication of progress just doesn’t sit well with people. A short video of someone placing enemies isn’t exactly substantial. Also expecting people to join forums and go to discord chats and whatever else that isn’t Kickstarter for updates is just ridiculous. Kickstarter updates should be the primary source for information. I’m not interested in those other avenues and I am sure I am not the only one who feels that way. Also with regard to feedback, you took feedback based on a demo that some people could not play. I don’t have a computer that was capable of running the demo, and there are others here who also do not so you did not take feedback from everyone, you took it from a portion of the backers. There are plenty of things that have been done with this Kickstarter campaign that just don’t instill confidence in everyone at this point. The ball is in the dev team’s court to at least try to appease those fans or at the very least make a compromise and offer something more concrete in terms of information or a release date or even more narrow window. I don’t make these posts with any intention to be a problem or anything I just know I am not alone in the way I feel about how things are being handled.
@Rob Crowther, yeah I've seen that mentioned and addressed elsewhere in regards to this, I don't think it applies. Here's Question's assessment on that on reddit:
You can choose to believe that or not, but it makes sense to me. Otherwise, for Geoff and anyone else thinking this means another Mn9 situation, I think that's precisely the situation they're trying to avoid - that game kept setting specific timeframes and missing them. By -not- committing specifically to x month 2019 right now, they do not make those mistakes. The trade off is people being annoyed that it's not specific right now versus stated now and possibly changed later (possibly multiple times) like Mn9 was.
I hope they're going to upgrade us to a ps5 copy in 2021
Excellent partnership! Those guys from WayForward are amazing. I backed their Shantae project and it was a fantastic experience!
.... I meant cameo. OF COURSE I KEN SPELZ!!!
That's a surprise.. Shantae caeo, perhaps? Or a Shantae costume, hmmmmmm.....?
Thanks, i missed that. In that case, yay for WayForward and that is indeed good news too, at the same time, any chance for WayForward cameo in the game as a nod to them?
> I think it's reaching to read into this that adding a team to help them release the game (on time) = the game will now take longer than it initially would to release? That seems pretty backwards.
It's called "Brooks' Law" from the book "The Mythical Man-Month": "adding human resources to a late software project makes it later"
My concern with WayForward is that they only seem to have developed games for Windows and have no experience with the promised Linux and Mac platforms.
I highly doubt I'd back this guy again. Getting really tired of waiting and delays. I get that it takes time, but so far you took money and teased us with a little more than nothing.
I've been more and more worried about this project over the last two years. Bringing wayforward is a first visible step toward going forward !
And now, i'm having hope, again, for this project.
Great news indeed
Just hurry up and deliver a finished product. Jeebus, this is taking forever.
I like WayForward's games and all, but do they even have a lot of experience developing on Unreal Engine 4? I want to be optimistic about this, but it seems like adding another team onto the project this late into development could hinder more than it helps. Oh well, wait and see I guess. Hopefully it all works out for the best.