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Hey everybody, regarding the retro mini game not being on GOG, long story short it was the result of an unfortunate miscommunication between Inti Creates, ArtPlay and Fangamer stemming from when the original KS campaign happened. The retro game was never going to be on GOG.
It's an unfortunate miscommunication, but rest assured it won't affect anyone's ability to download or enjoy their copy of the retro mini game.
Also just a reminder that 505 Games isn't involved with "Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon". It's a separate project being developed and published entirely by Inti Creates and ArtPlay.
I've written at greater length but, fundamentally, it's about the "DRM-freeness is an unimportant oversight publishers might want to correct on existing purchases" philosophy underlying Steam as expressed by the lack of a "DRM-Free" indicator in Steam store pages and the Steam distribution paradigm, centered around automatic upgrades and the inability to rewind to a previous release of a game.
If I'm going to have to jump through hoops to preserve a DRM-free release of a game, I might as well pirate it. (And I don't pirate games as a matter of principle.)
Also, pirating something or giving Steam money is an implicit endorsement. By refusing to pay for OR pirate games which use DRM or are distributed via a platform which works to reinforce existing power imbalances between publisher and player, I reduce any whining about my non-purchase that a publisher might make to "Wahh! Force people to pay for our crappy game even if they don't want it!"
@Justin with the development being handled completely separately, it's obviously a separate game, not an add-on, and since it's not being published as a package deal(remember that Kickstarter is NOT a store), there's no real reason to believe that they would be handled as the same title by GOG. Their submissions would likely be handled separately - possibly even submitted by different people since we don't know if 505 Games is involved with the spinoff at all - and we already know that GOG's reasons for accepting or rejecting games can be nebulous, even capricious at times. I'm not saying that's definitely what happened, butthe possibility certain exists beyond by some "bizarre twist."
As for wondering why it's not available from somewhere other than Steam or (previously believed) GOG... I don't know what to say. Those are the two major options, and calling GOG a "major" option is more an indication of how insignificant the other options are than that GOG is actually a strong competitor to Steam. Everything else is so minor that no one even thinks of them except for people DEEP into the indie scene. Why would they go to the trouble of publishing on a platform that no one is going to buy from?
I get your distaste for Steam. I buy GOG over Steam every time I can, not because of DRM, but because I don't like the idea of one monolithic company dominating the entire PC platform. But the real question, in my mind, is whether the Steam version is truly going to be DRM free. The survey claims it is, and if that's true, you could just install the game and then remove Steam altogether. Not all games on Steam have DRM; that's a publisher decision.
Frankly, I don't really get an outright boycott of Steam for PC gamers. Like I said, I avoid it when I can, but sometimes it really is your only choice, and it's not like you have to financially support Valve to get a game on Steam. There are always other sites to buy from. The question of DRM is one I share though, and I would like a more explicit declaration that the Steam version will indeed be free of it.
Having spent years buying games from GOG it seems weird that they'd turn down a project which is in essence an addition to something they are already selling and promoting. While I cannot say with 100% certainty it would be a break from the norm for how things are done there.
Also, I don't know which posts gave you the sense of "I'm mad about not getting it for free how I want it though." but I certainly was aware of the retro spin-off, and had filled out my survey about it, long before the option to get it somewhere other than steam was removed without explanation.
Even if there is - for some unknown reason - a bizarre twist and the spin-off isn't being accepted by GOG while the main game has honestly been more than accepted, that still in no way explains either A) the lack of any other options for PC than steam (which some of us refuse to ever do business with again and shouldn't be pressured to do so by a campaign with backed which clearly stated there would be other options) or B) the lack of a DRM free option even if it is simply directly hosted by the developer.
I really have no idea why would steam be a problem for some people, being as friendly as it is, don't really see why some people have some sort of aversion to steam and assume that steam = DRM, there are probably reasons though is puzzling, yet i have to admit that my copies are not going to be on steam, they all are on consoles.
These guys on the forum brought up some great points too.
It may have been too niche for GoG to accept:
I think you guys would have to ask Inti Creates that and they don't have eyes here.
As for why, my best guess (emphasis on guess) is that since they're self-publishing it and as far as I know haven't published to GoG before, with GoG not being a promise on the Kickstarter, it probably wasn't worth establishing that platform. From what I know, it's pretty unusual for a new game to launch on GoG as it is.
Worst case, this is a free extra thing for us that if needed to be bought again separately will likely be in a very low price point. It's crazy still though that it's included in the $28 tier.
As for not getting what you paid for, this is a free extra thing that was unlocked at 4.5 million that several of us here apparently didn't even know about lol. I'm getting a sense of "What even is this? I'm mad about not getting it for free how I want it though".
I also wanted the spin-off game on GOG & would like to know why it won't be available there now... it seems very strange because GOG themselves even promoted this kickstarter (and are partly why I backed this): https://www.gog.com/forum/general/bloodstained_ritual_of_the_night_c6818
If a GOG release of the spin-off game really can't be arranged, then how about using the Humble Store or itch.io instead for offering a DRM-free release?
As a backer, I want the retro spin-off game on GOG. If that's not possible, then I want an explanation and a DRM-free alternative.
I don't use Steam, and I'm not interested in a download for console. I pledged for DRM-free on PC.
I wish there was a way to add just the map and art book.
Also to add I don't mind steam being a pc platform as I've not had terrible experiences with It, but seeing this could be a problem, what about the other OSs that peeps use like Linux or Mac? Surely the game has those guys in mind.
So I noticed on the playasia website that the game should be ready or at least listed on the second quarter. Will the computer backers be able to access the beta beforehand?
It would be good to have an explanation about the reason the retro spin-off is not going to be on GOG or drm-free. It would not make sense if it was a decision by the author as the spin-off was commissioned for this campaign and should share its view. I could only guess that for some reasons GOG didn't accept the retro spin-off, but that again would not be a wise move as it is tied with the main game that will be available there.
Can we have an official response? How come we had to get a notification from fangames and not a kickstarter update? Not even an official comment?
I believe this campaign, after the initial issues about developement, has beem worsening constantly. Issues with communication (or lack of), lack of response to backers inquiry, a general feel of uncertainty. Strange ideas about content exclusivities and future contents. A deadline on a survey when not also quesions hasn't been answered but it is also clear that the authors themself doesn't know what they are developing. It would have been wiser to wait before setting such deadline.
Is there a reliable way to contact the handler of this campaign?
I agree with the other backers below: It's pretty shitty not to have *ANY* DRM-free options for the spin-off game.
The link to have your survey resend is https://fulfillment.fangamer.com/kindling/bloodstained/survey_support
I can't get the survey completed through fangamer. I just get sent to a page for me to buy the same tier I already bought here. How do I complete the survey?
I've got to say, I'm disappointed that the retro spin-off is not coming to GOG as its my preferred platform. Can we get an explanation as to why its not coming to GOG? Personally, I'd wait a little for it to come on GOG at a later date if necessary.
Just received the notification that GOG had been switched to Steam for the retro spin-off. GOG was the only offered option that I considered acceptable, so I guess I'll either not play the retro spin-off or be forced to relax my principles and pirate something I paid for. (Most likely the former. I have a MASSIVE backlog as-is, so why compromise my principles just because I paid for something?)
Definitely not doing anything to change the opinion I've formed since the campaign that backing projects as a hardcore "No DRM" guy is just too risky.
(I haven't backed anything since the backer-relations boondoggle that was the communication in the lead-up to the Banner Saga 2 release, where I asked Kickstarter to chime in on whether it was a policy violation and they remained silent.)
Are there going to be any options for the spin-off for PC players who do not use steam?
I know it hasn't been everyones experience, and that's fine, but I've had such terrible customer service from steam I'm never touching it again, does that just mean - as a PC gamer - I'm now completely unable to ever play the spin-off?
Extremely disappointed the spin-off will not be available on GOG. ;_;
Why did they put a deadline on the survey when they don't even know themself the details of what they are developing?
Yeah, the no GoG port for the spin-off is sad. Aw well.
Whats going on with Bloodstained Retro spin-off not available in GOG? Dang it.
From FanGamer: "We were recently informed that the Bloodstained Retro spin-off game will not be available on GOG."
I thought I backed a DRM-free project? Why am I obligated to pick Steam as the PC option now?
What is this spin off game and why isn't it available on GOG?
David Lein, it will most certainly be in English.
Potentially very important:
FOR EVERYONE, especially those who have waited to see what the mini-game looks like before making a platform choice. My speculation is that they'll be showing it off here. This would be 11:15 pm Friday EST.
Hi. I know that this may be a dumb question but will the art book be available in english?
Install base of new nintendo 3ds specific is lower than install base of switch, the port would be insanely expensive (new engine has to be used all together, because porting unreal engine 4 to 3ds is a no go, officially there is UE 2.9 and ubisoft got running a version of UE3) and the cost wouldn't be recovered, to this date, there is no mighty no. 9 for new 3ds or for 3ds despite being promissed and that one was running UE3
All I would love to see is them to also port Blood Stained to the New 3DS. Lots of other ports, but it would be a worth later stage release.
720p in portable mode on switch is what i meant, docked should be 1080p, anyway let's dont get ahead of it.
Well the lowest bar is the vita, console-wise xbone - switch have similar performance on fp16, which is something that perfectly suits this game as there is no much to be rendered regarding depth, so my guess is that if done correctly, the only difference should be the output resolution, and even then they could target for a standar hd of 720p ditching weird resolutions.
In order for them to comment on performance differences, those ports would have to be completed already. Unfortunately, I'm sure it's too early for even the developers to make comment on that for sure.
Has there been any more feedback on differences between PS4 and Switch performance? resolutions and frame rates? I love the portability of switch but concerned about slowdown/stuttering or concessions to visuals. Would be nice to know before finalizing my decision on platform.
Zeldas Champion, no, not necessarily, but maybe so - the publisher rep has told us that the news doesn't mean any more than it does at surface level, but obviously it's getting closer of course
Billy, they've been reaching out to people for the game design tiers via e-mail over the last couple of years, but I haven't heard anything about the 750 folks. I imagine that could be implemented pretty late. You could email firstname.lastname@example.org to see if they can tell you, but it's probably up to ArtPlay. Roberto here (the person officially responding) may know, and if you'd like to directly contact him, Discord is the fastest, followed by messaging via other means (forum PM, social media PM).
Hungrybear8, there officially isn't a relationship between Kickstarter and Fangamer - just like how Kickstarter and Backerkit are separate. Fangamer is handling the management of funds and rewards instead of KS because it allows them to use a custom backing system with its own support, and those guys being the ones who will be producing a lot of the physical things we're getting. Fangamer is basically filling the role of Backerkit with the added bonuses of actually being the people doing the fulfillment and had made the assets for the campaign (almost everything that wasn't concept art) and still help produce update assets.
Bui, I can't fully answer that question myself, but I can say that most of my PS4 discs did not come with booklets either. It is not a standard inclusion with any games anymore, at least not here in North America. Anyway, the $100 tier here on Kickstarter is the first to for sure include a "retro strategy booklet", and I'm not sure if that will fit inside or be outside the case. I think that instead of in the game case itself, it may fit inside the Ayami Kojima sleeve along wit the pin, keychain, button, soundtrack, etc.
Hi, can I ask a question about physical copy? I'm considering getting my physical copy on PS4 or Switch, and the digital copy for the other platform (as I have both consoles). Does the Switch physical copy include the same instruction manual booklet content as PS4?
In my experience most Switch game I bought doesn't include any booklet (which feels a little disappointment), while PS4 discs always include them.
I did not carefully check the monthly update.
I saw Project Update # 65. And I noticed that I was not answering survey.
However, I am wondering why survey arrived from fangamer.com.
What is the relationship between KICKSTARTER and fangamer.com?
I was wondering about the secret message for the 750$ tier which is what I got and wanted to know who do I talk to about that? Also I realize it’s super late to be asking this but is there anyway to get a higher tier? I only ask because I have much more spending money then I did when I initially pledged
Was wondering after seeing the last email asking us which version we wanted, are we looking at a possible release sometime this year?
Mr. Brent Taylor
@-DarkWing- The person who answered my first email question either didn't realize that or just read my question too quickly. In that email, I asked about switching to a digital version, he looked my account and informed me I had already selected a digital version for the Switch. The only digital version of anything I had selected for Switch was the retro game.... not Bloodstained. Hence my further emails to them and messages here. But it's cool now. Fangamer fixed my order and acknowledged the back survey was not intuitive. I reported the confusion here in case anyone else was having similar issues with their backer survey. Hopefully it helps someone else!
They realize to the point that the answer for that game's platform is separate than the answer form the main game.
Staff at Fangamer don't realize the mini game is a separate game? I doubt that's the case
Ok... Fangamer finally was able to switch my physical order to a digital. Thanks!
@-DarkWing- I know now... pardon my memory on this. It's been three years. The biggest issue with it is that it's causing trouble with my order because staff at FanGamer don't realize it's a separate game.
Been wondering, will the digital codes for the retro game and the main game ever expire? I don't have the Nintendo Switch right now, but I will end up buying one in the future. I was just wondering, when I eventually end up buying one (for example, two years from now), will the codes still work?
Is the 3DS version of the spin-off in 2D or stereoscopic 3D?
The retro "prequel" was one of the stretch goals, remember mighty gunvolt? is sort of like that.
@Roberto Thank you for your reply. I think the nature of the products being offered is confusing the staff at Fangamer. Because this strange "retro spinoff game" is being offered and referenced in the survey, it's causing confusion. I feel like I've been reading all of the email blasts over the past three years and I didn't even know about a separate retro game. So, when I recently opened the survey, I thought I was getting a physical version of the game plus a digital version of the same game. It wasn't until I went back in and double-checked that I realized I was being asked my preferences on a physical copy of Bloodstained and a separate digital copy of an unnamed retro game that's apparently something else? Anyway, I've replied back to FanGamer and I hope they understand the question this time, but the wording of the backer survey seems to be confusing people and making customer service more difficult. Could someone from your team please have a meeting with the staff from FanGamer to make sure everyone understands the products being offered?