by Dream Pod 9
Bad_Syntax: It seems to me that you're having an issue with looking as all of this objectively. You liked the old, pre-Blitz system, from what I can tell. That's cool, but it certainly was convoluted from a wargaming perspective. Even Blitz itself was muddled enough in some aspects to make certain things unclear; indirect fire comes to mind. The ROW were nigh impenetrable to new players who weren't joining an existing group. Sure the forums are there to help, but a game system should be able to stand on it's own outside of a community as far as accessibility and playability.
From what I've seen of the new rules, they are certainl ya departure from the old, but that's part of the reason this whole KS came about. The game needed to change if DP9 wanted to remain in business. The name needs to be able to attract new players while hopefully satisfying the old.
At the end of the day we all decided to play HG because mechs are cool. It doesn't hurt that the narrative is also cool.
Does that mean Iwant to worry about whether or not the model I'm using has hands to interact with? That's just complexity for complexity's sake when not applied to an RPG setting.
Minis wargames need to run smoothly and be accessible. If you really like the old rules, then play with them. There's no law saying you can't. But DP9 also can't hope to please all people all the time, nor should they be expected to. They're a business and they have to satisfy that end while still putting out a product that people want.
So yeah, good on DP9 for trying to modernize the system and make it less crunchy. Crunch is great for an RPG, not so much for a minis wargame. We don't all have 3+ hours to play a single encounter.
This book was the final version of the Silhouette combat system that was introduced in Heavy Gear. Same rules, but some new stuff was added to support other sci-fi genre's like transforming units, FTL, and so forth:
That one book also had a 30 page design system you could make any kind of unit you could imagine, very easily. It also had RPG rules. While some may say the tactical game was for the RPG, fact was it didn't require the RPG at all. It is like saying battletech is the tactical system for the mechwarrior RPG. No pre-requisites and the system worked just fine without any RPG element. That game played very fast, and I was able to knock out 15 gear companies vs CEF platoons in a couple hours on very large tables. It worked very well, emphasized strategy and strategic maneuvering.
The old rules you didn't need to "know" any weaposn, the DM/SR/MR/LR/ER/Acc/ROF and maybe some option like indirect, anti-infantry or AOE. Except in that earlier game a tank may have mounted a range 80 weapon, while your gear topped out at 24. It could also have actually artillery with ranges over entire maps. It played more realistically, and some units simply had to use cover to close on the enemy. Comparing the rules and gameplay, I guess I just can't see how this new set has a single advantage over the old set. I guess there is no longer perk/flaw damage, but that system worked great. Gears with things like satellite uplink and target designators could be awesome when deployed properly. Units with "+2 sensors to 25km" made a world of difference when scouting. Plus, the whole system worked GREAT in campaigns if you wanted. Now, well, the game is hollow with no depth. Campaigns are nothing more than linked scenarios. No logistics, no fuel, no strategic ranged items, etc. How many folks touting the improvements on the new rules really played the old ones?
The new rules cover a lot of situations and flow very well from a simple roll to resolution. Get yourself playing and you'll find out how quick it can run very soon. Join us in the development forums and drop some feedback from your game experiences there. The new rules work great and play fast. (hint, you'll need to know 6 weapons to play 80% of the game: Auto cannons, Anti-vehicle rocket pods, Vibro-blades, Bazookas, Artillery Rockets, and Anti-tank rockets. Most everything else is a very niche specialist weapon. Cheers!
What design system? The last time there was a design system was before the Heavy Gear Blitz edition of the game, when the rules weren't so much wargame rules but really tactical combat rules for the RPG. What "blue core book" are you referring to?
I'm sort of afraid that you're calling the winding maze of upgrade options for each model that Blitz used a "design system". :-(
I think the new rules are *more* complex, they don't flow as naturally. Not sure how people sayd the original was complex, it was a very simple game with minimal book thumbing during play. The only part that could be slow was all the dice and calculations, but that is still there except now there is more to calculate. In the blue core book, the rules for mechanical combat (all that was necessary) was 30 pages, and that included a lot of special situations the new rules don't even cover. Heck, it also had a design system. Just seems like these new rules (and the beta before it out months ago) are very long winded versions of a flattened game mechanic (so now sensors have a range of 12, instead of typically the whole map. Now weapons all have similar range bands, when the old HRG could fire across the table, etc). Just not sure what was gained. I was hoping some things would get ironed out from the beta but it doesn't appear to be the case :( Hopefully others like it I guess.
@Chris - These are just an updated version of the beta rules that have been out for like a year, guess you didn't know.
@ Bad_Syntax. We are improving the rules and making the game faster to play. The older rules were viewed as to complex, and were deterring new players from getting into the game.
Please note that this is not the Quickstart Rules that we'll be doing as a printed full color book for the Kickstarter.
This is the new Living Rulebook Beta which will become the Core Rulebook for the game. We want it to have everything the players need to know about the world and all the factions and their vehicles. The actual rules section is only 45 pages, which is smaller than the Beta Rules which was 59 pages. We added an introduction to the world of Heavy Gear, maps of Terra Nova, faction background, and images of the miniatures that were not in the Beta Rules, that's why its so much larger. Its a free ebook download give it a chance and try a few games.
The actual Quickstart Rules will be a smaller book with the rules, some quick teaching game play scenarios, world introduction, and info on the factions included in the Core Starter Set and their vehicle game stats.
so Syntax, you have had the rules for a couple of hours and yet you have managed to play enough games to get this level of insight? interesting...
So, the rules are 50% bigger than the core book, far more convoluted, yet the game dynamics flattened down so everything is so close to the same capabilities that the dynamics of combat have completely turned to yet another 40K clone. Ya'll really had something, but this.... ugh, core/HG2E was better, faster, more fun and most of all required tactics to win, not better die rolls that the system asks for now :( Oh well, hopefully some folks will like it, and hopefully I can find people to play the old game with so I didn't waste $500 in miniatures :(