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Return to Norðlond with this detailed Norse-flavored setting for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG.
Return to Norðlond with this detailed Norse-flavored setting for the Dungeon Fantasy RPG.
600 backers pledged $26,030 to help bring this project to life.

How do I get Fantastic Dungeon Grappling?

Posted by Douglas H. Cole (Creator)

This has come up a few times. Cross-Kickstarter promotions - where two publishers are actively promoting and incentivizing  each other's products at the same time - are somewhere between "rare" and "unheard of" from what I've seen (love to see other examples, though!).

So when Steve Jackson Games and Gaming Ballistic each hosted a stretch goal for the other company's campaign, some confusion was naturally generated.

Here's the deal.

What's Different about FDG vs HoJ's Version

Fantastic Dungeon Grappling is now 8 pages instead of four. It incorporates learning from over a year of play in terms of penalties and how folks actually grapple in the game. Experience showed that while the control points given and received were fair, they were not always fun, and I don't care how  detailed or realistic a system is, if it's not fun you won't use it, and it's missed its mark.

We also looked at things that monsters need to do (swallow PCs whole), flying creatures need to do (pick you up and fly away with you so they can eat you later or feed you to their hungry offspring), and some dedicated "abracadabra you're grappled" spells. I think we amplified on a few other options as well.

How Do I Get the Book?

There are two ways to get it.

The first - and best - is to contribute to the Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 2 Kickstarter at the boxed set level, AND see to it that the $45,000 stretch goal is reached for that product. If that happens, SJG will be including a copy of Fantastic Dungeon Grappling in each box printed, if I understand it correctly.

The other way is to add $4 for the PDF, $7 for print, or $9 for Print + PDF to the Citadel at Nordvorn pledge, and when you get to backerkit, you'll be able to place that in your cart with the credit you'll receive from your pledge.

That's it, really. I do need to add the Fantastic Dungeon Grappling banner and text (probably the text above, actually) to my Citadel campaign. Yesterday and today have been fantastic and nutso and exciting on both a personal and professional level, so I'm a step behind on that front. 

Ewan Spence, Jason W, and 8 more people like this update.


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    1. Douglas H. Cole 6-time creator on

      @Joseph: right now, you get a will roll at -3 to keep concentrating if you've been grappled or are in close combat (or maybe just grappled), but can't START concentrating if you're grappled.

      The "best" default rule here in terms of keeping it simple is to mimic that. If you have any CP on you, you may not initiate concentration, and roll at the DX penalty to maintain concentration.

      I'm toying with "initiate concentration at double DX penalties" as an optional rule. We checked, and while DFRPG mostly eschews options, there are a few in there (Training costs). It's a choice between "simple" and "be awesome," and when an optional rule lets characters and monsters be more awesome, my thumb tends to push down on the scale.

      The downside of this is it means you have to grapple that Explosive Death Spell-25 monster REALLY hard to make that spell impossible to cast. Conan does not approve (in a lot of REH Conan stories, once Conan got hold of the sorcerer, it was all over)

    2. Missing avatar

      Joseph Reynolds on

      @Doug and Jason W: I'd be inclined to use the exact same penalty to cast as the DX penalty for suffering control points. This feels like a good approximation for the amount of distraction that being manhandled might cause a caster. Perhaps with the caveat that having a location grappled might totally prevent casting that relies on that for gestures or speech; or maybe just doubles the penalty. Likewise perhaps halve the casting penalty if the target has HPT or compartmentalized mind or something.

    3. Douglas H. Cole 6-time creator on

      @Tim: And done.

    4. Douglas H. Cole 6-time creator on

      @Tim: It's on my to-do list for tonight.

      @Kenny: I don't know. I suspect. I'd ping over and ask Phil - they're printing the ones for the boxed set, not me.

    5. Kenny Johnson on

      Do you know if it is a POD product or will it be an offset print like the rest of the books in the boxed set?

    6. Tim Baker

      I would suggest adding this to the add-ons list on the main Campaign page. I really struggle when I add something to my Kickstarter pledge, and then can't remember why I included that extra bit of funding later. Providing that on the Campaign page will help me remember where the funds are intended to go.

    7. Jason W on

      Thanks Doug. It makes sense that you can't cast spells if someone has you all wrapped up like a pretzel on the ground, but if some Kobold grabs your leg or something, you could probably still cast, with a penalty of course!

    8. Douglas H. Cole 6-time creator on

      @Jason W: If it doesn't already, it will now! I'll bounce it off my brain trust. I think the canonical answer is "you can't." But with various degrees of "grappled" from FDG, that doesn't always make sense.

    9. Jason W on

      Will it address if it's possible to cast a spell while being grappled?