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The Lost City of Barakus (Gold Ennie for Best Adventure in 2004) is being revised, expanded & updated for Pathfinder!
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    1. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      Is grimmsgate part of the lost lands?

      As far as I know, yes it is. I haven't taken an in-depth look at it yet. As a S&W-only project I've got to make sure that there isn't anything unique about it or its IP that would prevent it from being so, but at first blush my answer is yes. If there is any way that it can be (and I have no reason to think otherwise at this time), then it will be.

    2. Missing avatar

      Steven on

      Is grimmsgate part of the lost lands?

    3. Missing avatar

      W Birchler on

      Greg,

      Thanks for the updates! Interesting to see how things are being worked together. I appreciate the time you took to provide feedback about the ongoing map development.

    4. Michel Godbout on

      And Greg comes through, once again.... Thanks a bunch.

    5. John Stanfield on

      And just like that, Greg has the problem covered. Fareme it is. Great solution. Thank you!

    6. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      Both cities would be largely neutral in alignment with a strong tendency towards law officially (to maintain order for trade) but a significant chaotic underbelly with all the criminal activities that accompany that amount of trade coming in from all directions.

    7. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      Panetoth is a regional administrative center that oversees Waymarch. The main garrison of Waymarch is stationed there, but patrols to the north and east occupy most of their time, so the military encampments on the plains north of Panetoth are never full. The city itself also serves as a waypoint between Reme to the west and the old imperial capital at Courghais (just head south from the Dagger & Rose). It's population is about 22,000, mostly human, is in the middle of a rolling plain with limited water beyond a few collection lakes from the rainstorms that scour the plains in the spring and snow melt from the winter, but no major river so during the heat of summer water shortages are not uncommon, and only the temple of Mitra is able to keep dysentery and cholera from sweeping through the population as the dwindling water supply inevitably gets contaminated between the populace's use and the herds of grazing horses, sheep, and cattle that also make use of it. I think the city administrator is called the harmost (an old title for a Hyperborean military governor), but don't quote me on that because I don't have my notes with me right now. I hope that is helpful.

      Alternately, if you wanted to go with Fareme that I mentioned below as a starting point instead, it is much closer to Fairhill (~150 miles west of it). It serves as more of a carvan staging city. It's population during caravan season is usually around 10,000, but only about 3500 of those are actual residents. It is also under the protection of the Waymarch and has a strong cavalry garrison for its outriders to patrol the Tradeway nearly all the way to Bard's Gates. It is very much a city designed to accommodate travelers (lots of inns, pastures, paddocks, etc.) and has a huge market with a constantly shifting array of wares. The main inns have sign boards out front where travelers can post notices, advertisements, wanted posters, etc., so it is a perfect place for adventurers to get their start.

    8. Michel Godbout on

      Greg Wrote «Your mythic campaign sounds cool. I'd recommend starting in Panethoth rather than Reme»

      Of course it's cool... you guys wote the thing. Ha!

      May I push my luck and ask if you can give me at least the population, type of settlement, government and general alignment of Panethoth? What is the cultural feel of the city? Just give me a small shove in the right direction. I am using CSiO for Derindin in the meantime.

    9. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      Ha! Arendia! Okay, got it. :-) I think, in fact, a city in the Forest Kingdoms is what it will be! I like that idea.

      The Tradeway is LONG (as I've mentioned before ;-) ). After some thought, I think I'm going to do two things to keep that text in Stoneheart Valley consist. First of all, Reme is both the country and the capital, and Waymarch is a protectorate of Reme, so...I'm going to interpret that "Reme is 8 days travel from Fairhill" to mean that the edge of Waymarch (aka Reme territory) is what is 8 days away. Then to fix the problem of the city I will be adding the trade city of Fareme to the eastern edge of Waymarch (roughly 8 days from Fairhill, let's say). It won't be as big or as important as Bard's Gate, serving as only a major waystop and resupply on the route, but should serve the purposes of a place to start the adventure very well with a vast assortment of equipment for sale and a huge transient population constantly passing through.

      These are the kinds of tweaks that I make constantly as I go with the development to make everything fit nice and neat, and I love the rabid NG/FGG fan base that can point out all the little things that I might have missed.

      Thanks!

    10. John Stanfield on

      And on the city of Arendia, I was just testing your Necromancer Games map skills! (Just kidding) It’s a city that was mentioned and never featured on a map that I know of. Its form Bard’s Gate Pg. 115: The Lyre Valley:

      “…along the Tradeway connecting the cities of Reme and Arendia here, at Bard’s Gate.”

      I’m not really sure why, but I always assumed it was a Elven city in the Forest Kingdoms.

    11. John Stanfield on

      Greg,
      Thanks for taking the considerable amount of time needed to answer all of the (tedious, off-topic, lol) questions raised here. While I understand the need to work on the bigger picture of the world map (and thanks for that, I can’t wait to see more!), I just wish that it did not have to impact the existing material already (re)released for the Lost Lands. Changing out the starting city of Reme to another city near Fairhill is a deffinate work around that can be done on the fly, but it still needs to fit in with the back story of Eralion and Ferblan the Mad (and his apprentices). May be the answer is the just use Bard’s Gate instead of Reme.

    12. John Stanfield on

      Skeeter,
      Thanks for the reply. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I’m pretty excited to see new maps coming for Barakus. I’m also pretty excited to see a glimpse of the new Campaign map you guys posted. You can see the hard work that Greg has put in trying to consolidate all of the Lost Lands maps. James Redmon summed up my concerns much better than I have been trying to do here:

      James Redmon wrote:
      However, it is worth noting that there is a expectation of consistency between all products that bear the Lost Lands logo. As written, the previous Necromancer products and perhaps the older Frog God many elements will not be consistent and that is expected and ok while awaiting possible update.

    13. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      John Rudd wrote:

      "John Rudd about 1 hour ago
      I'm ok with having to revise past material to fit with a new over-arching vision of things. I guess my read of the big reveal about "The Lost Lands", with the previous KS, was that this vision had already existed ... so I expected that this details were worked out from day one, X years ago.
      Knowing that that's not the case eases my expectations quite a bit... and lets me know that it will be a while before we see the grand map of the setting (as opposed to region maps). It also makes more sense, now, in understanding why it's going to take so long to get all of the setting out, instead of just printing up the equiv. of "The World Of Greyhawk" -- you don't yet have that material, all worked out and conflicts resolved.
      For me, it's more about setting expectations than about expecting the past material to be canonical. I'd rather see you take the time to get those details right, than rush out an answer now :-) And since my expectations are now set about where you are, and where you're going, I wont ask, at every KS, "where's the world map???"

      You are correct; the vision does exist but has about a million moving parts that I am currently fitting altogether. The reason I'm presenting the prototype map to the company at NTRPG Con is because even they don't see the whole picture yet due to its complexity. And the reason its a prototype is because I'm sure some changes will have to be made and CERTAINLY more detail will be added.
      We'll probably do region maps when possible for teasers or appropriate KS goals, etc. And they will be as accurate as we can make them based on development to that point. I will be working VERY hard to not invalidate anything that we are putting out in the region maps. Obscure lines of text embedded in adventures...I'm sure there will be some hit or miss. Knowing the NG/FGG product lines you know that there are A LOT of obscure lines of text embedded in adventures. :-) Yet my goal is to catch all of those as well. The 8-day travel reference in Stoneheart Valley is unfortunate because that is exactly the kinds of things we are trying to catch on updates of the old stuff.
      The full world map will actually be a part of its own product, The Lost Lands Campaign Setting here in a couple years. We just don't want to leave everyone totally in the dark that long as we build this behemoth. :-)

    14. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      W Birchler wrote:

      "Oh and the road that continues through the Grey Citadel and beyond up into the Stoneheart Mountains"

      The western flank of the Stonehearts has not finished full development yet, so this may appear later. The mountains are much larger as a chain and of very different character than most probably suspect, so that road may not amount to being important enough to appear at the scale of the regional map. We'll have to see. I don't know the full answer to that question yet.

    15. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      W. Birchler wrote:

      "One thing I was just noticing, and this may be a function of the scale of the maps, is regarding the Grey Citadel and the features that are shown on the map on page 98 of that product and also the overview map from the Eamonvale Incursion on page 8. The forest the Bleak, the Moorlands and the Elven Forest areas."

      This is an excellent point and you are correct, it is a function of the scale of the maps. In fact, you're going to notice this quite a bit. The fine details of the local maps are not going to show up much on the regional maps because of their scale. Only features that are a part of a larger whole (like the Stoneheart Mountains for Eamonvale) are going to be visible when we zoom out to the regional scale. This actually helps in making the world map customizable to your home game because each 50-mile hex can have a dozen local terrain features that don't appear on the larger-scale map to fit whatever needs you have for your personal campaign. That's not to say that the Lost Lands are going to be detail-light, they're just going to detail on a much larger scale for the most part to allow you to add your personal touches as you go without having to worry about them being contradicted by some later product. This is actually one of the strengths of the map having a much larger scale than previous incarnations.

    16. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      James Redmon wrote:

      "I guess the discussion between John and I was premature although I am thankful for John's attention to detail. However, it is worth noting that there is a expectation of consistency between all products that bear the Lost Lands logo. As written, the previous Necromancer products and perhaps the older Frog God many elements will not be consistent and that is expected and ok while awaiting possible update.
      This isn't a trivial task. In effect, FGG is trying to consolidate multiple products that were originally written for multiple generic settings that were never considered to be part of a larger work. In some instances, it may be worthwhile to completely discard some generic setting info in a work to enable better integration into the Lost Lands.
      This vision is being kept pretty close to Greg, Bill, and Skeeter only. I am personally fascinated how this is going to come together. For instance, how different is Barakus regional map going to be from the Wilderness map within 3e version? Endhome is yet another port city on another sea so either it is a significant distance from Gulf of Akados region or some geographical features will need to be renamed for the updated version to incorporate it into the region."

      What he said, too.

      In regards to Endhome. The maps and scales from the original should not have changed at all (really Shades is the only one that suffers much from that because it attempted to tie so many reference points together). The Barakus regional map will just be an expansion on it to a larger scale to fit up against the Sword of Air regional map.

    17. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      Skeeter wrote:

      "A little clarification on maps for THIS Kickstarter: We have a lot of maps going around right now, with SoA, the Northlands, the Lost Lands Campaign, etc.
      the regional map for this Barakus KS will NOT have Tsar or the Stoneheart Valley on it. that stuff will be on the Campaign map, when we get that out. For now, only the areas immediately around Barakus are going to be covered.
      And as far as where things are in the Lost Lands, we're compiling years of information, form many different authors. Existing information may be erroneous, lacking or vague. that's why we're updating things a piece at a time. it may not be how we wanted to do it, but we have to do what we can WHEN we can. I know that sounds vague and odd, but there is a LOT going on behind the scenes were trying to get out to you all. Please hang in there."

      What he said. :-)

    18. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      The concept behind NG adventures was that you can take their adventures and drop them into your home game. To keep that true and yet codify them as well, you've got to allow A LOT of room for stuff you want to put in from your home game. So that's what we've tried to do. Unfortunately that's created as many different mental images of what the world should look like as their are gamers that have used the products. It's a lot of work to fit the dozens and dozens of products by different writers that have contributed to this canon, but it's ultimately worth it if it makes a world that all of them can still be used in and remain faithful to their source material with minimal retcon. That's what we're going for anyway.

    19. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      James Redmon wrote:

      "P.S. IMHO, the hex scale should be about 30 miles (10 leagues) the same as the original map folio of The World of Greyhawk. I do have a great bias toward Greyhawk though.
      On the other hand, I also like 5 mile hex detail of the Judges Guild/Necromancer Wilderlands of High Fantasy. So, the hope is for maps of this level of detail in the campaign setting.
      Further thought on the 8-day march, this is a rather nebulous term shouldn't have been used. In most cases, along a trade route, we should be speaking of travel time with horse and wagon. With load, 20 to 30 miles would be considered a good day's travel in medieval times.
      To the credit of RPG players, it is not a lazy person's game and since they are highly intelligent, details matter both in the game world and in the mechanics i.e "the devil is in the details."

      Yep, this is the comment I get more than anything else. It's just something that we've got to wrap our heads around. The Lost Lands is BIG. The regional maps will use 50-mile hexes (a little less than twice as big as the Greyhawk hexes). The actual Lost Lands world map will use 100-mile hexes. It's just big; I don't know how else to break it to everyone. I hope that as a result it will exceed expectations rather than disappoint, but I'm sure it'll hit some comfort zones awkwardly. My apologies for that. However, the more the idea of its bigness sinks in I think the more people will begin to take to it and enjoy the possibilities and scope that it reveals. Wilderlands was awesome but ultimately tiny. Greyhawk was not much bigger being just a peninsular area on the larger continent of Oerik. Lost Lands is the full continent the size of Eurasia or larger with more to follow. It's just big...

    20. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      Michel Godbout wrote:

      "To FGG : I am about to start a Mythic campaign with : WAmulet, CoF, Abysthor, RA, Chaos Rising and Slumbering Tsar, so a quasi-accurate map will be essential for the caravan the players will own. As they would have started from Reme. It would be nice to know how many days west of Fairhill Reme actually is. Also, there is a mention of Freepot in James' comment below. I take it you meant Freegate...... Heavily inspired by Freeport I take it?"

      Second part first: It is Freegate, not Freeport. Whiel we did a sidebar in Razor Coast to unofficially tie Freeport in with the Lost Lands at Green Ronin's request, it is not technically a part of canon. Freegate it from Shades of Gray and is not very similar to Freeport at all. For similarity to Freeport check out Port Shaw in Razor Coast or Swordport in the various Hawkmoon adventures by NG. We've got plenty of Freeport flavor for you. :-)

      Your mythic campaign sounds cool. I'd recommend starting in Panethoth rather than Reme if you need to be able to calculate an exact travel time to Fairhill. Reme is far to the west (don't know exactly yet because that part of the map has not yet been finalized). But to give a sneak peek inside my head, the Tradeway as the epic trade route between Reme and the markets of the Crescent Sea and Bard's Gate and the markets of the Sinnar Ocean. I envision caravans taking about a year to make the full circuit much like oceanic voyages can. Adventurers can of course travel much faster than a trade caravan but that gives you an idea that the road is LONG on the legendary Tradeway of Akados.

    21. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      John Stanfield wrote:

      "And while I have your ear, where is the city of Arenda supposed to be?"

      I almost forgot to address this. Honestly I don't remember Arenda off the top of my head. Remind me what product it appeared in and I can give you details. Thanks.

    22. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      John Stanfield wrote:

      "There really is no way as drawn for Reme to be "a large port city" with 8 day march to Fairhill"
      Sure there is:
      http://bigbadron.com/game_rappan/Maps/worldmap.png
      That's what I've been using up till now."

      Exactly. That map scale is WAY too small for the Lost Lands game world. While I have said that everything from the older products (with a few exceptions mentioned elsewhere) will be included to fit in the Lost Lands, there will necessarily be some small adjustments here and there to make it all work. That said, the Shades map is where you will probably see the biggest cases of changes in location and scale, and really I think we managed to keep the integrity of that map pretty well intact in order to preserve both it and the rest of the catalogue of products. Unfortunately, there were not perfect solutions do to conflicts throughout the line. My goal is to stay as true as possible though while we make it all work together.

    23. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      John Stansfield wrote:

      "James, that's my point. The adventure has players moving from Reme to Fairhill (described as about 8 days march) the map does not show Reme and there is about 1,000 miles to that edge of the map."

      Once again, this is the bite of the expansion bug from earlier products. Even Panetoth is more than most 8-day journeys. It's more like a few weeks of hard riding to Fairhill from Panetoth. However, there are close settlements to Fairhill to the south that could also be substituted for Reme that would fit better into the 8-day time frame.
      Once again, the size of the world got vastly expanded off of the original adventures in order to be able to adequately encompass all of them as well as give us a sandbox to play in for the future as well.

    24. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      John Stanfield wrote:

      "Love the map, but have a quick question. What happened to Reme? It's mentioned many times in Stoneheart Valley. I would hate to have conflicting material in the new Lost Lands books is the reason I bring it up. And while I have your ear, where is the city of Arenda supposed to be?"

      This is an example where we see a really big problem with the Shades map scale. Reme is still to the west of Bard's Gate, but the inland sea is WAY farther away (spoiler: the inland sea is called the Crescent Sea, FYI). The Tradeway is a huge trade hub connecting the eastern and western coasts anchored by Reme and Bard's Gate (to a lesser extent Freegate, but that will be clearer when the Barakus stretch goal map is revealed).
      The solution: The Waymarch is a protectorate of the Grand Duchy of Reme. Panetoth is the regional capital of Waymarch. Substitute Panetoth for Reme in Stoneheart Valley when it's talking about nearness to Fairhill as Panetoth is a representative capital for the grand duchy. Reme is going to be a big deal and will get its own product at some point in the future.

    25. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      John Rudd wrote:

      "Ah. What I REALLY want is a map of the entire lost lands."

      Agreed! That will be released in the forthcoming Lost Lands campaign setting. However, it's development is well underway. I'm planning to have a functional prototype to display to the FGG staff at North Texas RPG Con. As for what extent spoilers and sneak peaks of it might be made available after that, I have no idea. I'd expect a few glimpses of it might get revealed to the con-goers though.

    26. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      Jackson Starky wrote:

      "Maps!!! And in light of James Redmon's comment, I'll ask another question: Any chance of this map being extended to include the Rappan Athuk area? I had no doubt that there was still more, because coastlines weren't complete. :-)

      Nope. We've gotta' reach the stretch goal for the RA area to appear on the Endhome region map. :-) Of course, it will all be on the actual campaign setting map when we manage to release that here in a year or two.

    27. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      John Rudd wrote:

      "However, something I've noticed about the region map:
      It doesn't show "sea coast road" (it has "coast road", but it's not clear if that's the same thing). It doesn't show the Forest of Hope, the Dragonmarsh Lowlands, nor a matching set of Foothills near the beach.
      Those are all the area descriptions for Rappan Athuk, in the 4th paragraph on page 12."

      AS mentioned and James or someone mentioned as well. The Rappan Athuk features will appear on the Barakus stretch goal map, not the Sword of Air map that we have posted. For point of reference, RA is about 400 miles south of Eastwych on the SoA map and Endhome is about 300 miles south of that. (Those numbers are guesstimates, I don't have the maps in front of me right now.)

    28. Missing avatar

      Greg Vaughan on

      Hi guys, Greg V. here. Because my computer-fu is so weak I just had to make a $1 pledge to this KS to be able to post comments. Don't laugh at me. :-)

      So James and Skeeter are doing yeomans' work to address the map comments, and I truly appreciate it. However this falls squarely within my wheelhouse, so I have to take responsibility for all issues here. So I'm going to try to address the comments one by one as I see them, starting from the oldest.

      That said, here are some quick generalities that will apply to most of them:
      While the Shades of Gray map was a noble effort and the first official attempt to tie several adventure areas together, it had some inconsistencies with other products as well. So while I used it as a guide, more than anything else you will see changes between it and the official Lost Lands maps moreso than any other product maps (well maybe not Mesopotamia, but that's another story).

      Secondly, one consistent issue with it and other products maps is they vastly underestimate the size of the Lost Lands. It is a BIG place and the Shades map does not do that justice. So with the Shades map in particular, it got rearranged some and had its scale vastly increased for us to be able to do what we wanted with the Lost Lands project.

      Final clarification:
      The regional map that is a stretch goal for Barakus will include both Endhome and Rappan Athuk on it. They are relatively close together (about 300 miles I think). That said, they do NOT appear on the map which Bill has posted as an update. It is actually the regional map for Sword of Air and is not included with the Barakus KS or end-product. It is more of a sneak peak at what is going on with FGG these days.

      So most of the comments appear to address the map that is NOT a part of the Barakus KS project. Just wanted to make sure we are all clear on that.

      And for my third finally, thanks much for Skeeter and James and anyone else who has jumped in to answer questions on these comments and pointing me to them. I just now heard about the map questions.

      So here we go...

    29. Missing avatar

      John "johnkzin" Rudd
      Superbacker
      on

      (also, keep in mind, there are two John's in this discussion ... please don't confuse us ; it's not that I don't agree with him, it's just that we've been asking slightly different questions)

    30. Missing avatar

      John "johnkzin" Rudd
      Superbacker
      on

      I'm ok with having to revise past material to fit with a new over-arching vision of things. I guess my read of the big reveal about "The Lost Lands", with the previous KS, was that this vision had already existed ... so I expected that this details were worked out from day one, X years ago.

      Knowing that that's not the case eases my expectations quite a bit... and lets me know that it will be a while before we see the grand map of the setting (as opposed to region maps). It also makes more sense, now, in understanding why it's going to take so long to get all of the setting out, instead of just printing up the equiv. of "The World Of Greyhawk" -- you don't yet have that material, all worked out and conflicts resolved.

      For me, it's more about setting expectations than about expecting the past material to be canonical. I'd rather see you take the time to get those details right, than rush out an answer now :-) And since my expectations are now set about where you are, and where you're going, I wont ask, at every KS, "where's the world map???"

    31. Missing avatar

      W Birchler on

      Oh and the road that continues through the Grey Citadel and beyond up into the Stoneheart Mountains.

    32. Missing avatar

      W Birchler on

      One thing I was just noticing, and this may be a function of the scale of the maps, is regarding the Grey Citadel and the features that are shown on the map on page 98 of that product and also the overview map from the Eamonvale Incursion on page 8. The forest the Bleak, the Moorlands and the Elven Forest areas.

    33. Shadow Demon on

      I guess the discussion between John and I was premature although I am thankful for John's attention to detail. However, it is worth noting that there is a expectation of consistency between all products that bear the Lost Lands logo. As written, the previous Necromancer products and perhaps the older Frog God many elements will not be consistent and that is expected and ok while awaiting possible update.

      This isn't a trivial task. In effect, FGG is trying to consolidate multiple products that were originally written for multiple generic settings that were never considered to be part of a larger work. In some instances, it may be worthwhile to completely discard some generic setting info in a work to enable better integration into the Lost Lands.

      This vision is being kept pretty close to Greg, Bill, and Skeeter only. I am personally fascinated how this is going to come together. For instance, how different is Barakus regional map going to be from the Wilderness map within 3e version? Endhome is yet another port city on another sea so either it is a significant distance from Gulf of Akados region or some geographical features will need to be renamed for the updated version to incorporate it into the region.

    34. Skeeter Green
      Superbacker
      on

      A little clarification on maps for THIS Kickstarter: We have a lot of maps going around right now, with SoA, the Northlands, the Lost Lands Campaign, etc.

      the regional map for this Barakus KS will NOT have Tsar or the Stoneheart Valley on it. that stuff will be on the Campaign map, when we get that out. For now, only the areas immediately around Barakus are going to be covered.

      And as far as where things are in the Lost Lands, we're compiling years of information, form many different authors. Existing information may be erroneous, lacking or vague. that's why we're updating things a piece at a time. it may not be how we wanted to do it, but we have to do what we can WHEN we can. I know that sounds vague and odd, but there is a LOT going on behind the scenes were trying to get out to you all. Please hang in there.

    35. Shadow Demon on

      I agree, John. I didn't notice this to start but if I had I am just as vehement about consistency. I think the Inner Sea is just a little beyond the western edge and Reme will be there. Since this map is preliminary, I think some adjustment to the scaling is needed. I am confident that Greg is going to be on top of this.

    36. John Stanfield on

      I know it looks like I'm trying to drag this into something bigger than it is. I just searched the Stoneheart valley PDF and Reme is mentioned 28 times, mostly in reference to to traveling back and forth from Fairhill. I just was wondering if that's changed. I'm quite jealous about NTRPG CON, mysterious forces keep me from getting to go for the last 2 years.

    37. Shadow Demon on

      P.S. IMHO, the hex scale should be about 30 miles (10 leagues) the same as the original map folio of The World of Greyhawk. I do have a great bias toward Greyhawk though.

      On the other hand, I also like 5 mile hex detail of the Judges Guild/Necromancer Wilderlands of High Fantasy. So, the hope is for maps of this level of detail in the campaign setting.

      Further thought on the 8-day march, this is a rather nebulous term shouldn't have been used. In most cases, along a trade route, we should be speaking of travel time with horse and wagon. With load, 20 to 30 miles would be considered a good day's travel in medieval times.

      To the credit of RPG players, it is not a lazy person's game and since they are highly intelligent, details matter both in the game world and in the mechanics i.e "the devil is in the details."

    38. Shadow Demon on

      @John,
      Sure, if Reme is only about 50 miles from Fairhill. FGG can do it with hand-drawn map but it is not going to be a port city on the Inland Sea. My next thought is 50 miles per hex may may be too much. I haven't looked at the Shades of Grey (it is one those in my vast collection of pdfs that I haven't even looked at) map before but it is going to be tough to be consistent. Stoneheart Mountains on the Shades of Grey map are far smaller than the ones on the hand-drawn map. I think that Reme is important and will be there it is just going to be much further than 8-day march from Fairhill and I think this is true because of the differing size of the Stoneheart Mountains.

      I will see most of the Frogs (Bill, Skeeter, and maybe Greg) at NTRPG Con in June and I will ask about this.

    39. John Stanfield on

      "Where did you get that map from?"
      Google search, but I think it cam form the Necromancer Games adventure Shades of Grey. I understand that they are revising and expanding the map to include all of the old and upcoming material (no easy task I'm sure). I was just hoping Reme was an oversight or something as it is so extensively referred to in the Lost Lands adventure that is Stoneheart Valley:
      http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/gif/d7f15df33e164a72ec6a3f0eb4c6735c7c6d41c.gif

    40. Michel Godbout on

      To John Stanfield :
      Where did you get that map from? I notice that Tsar is north of Reme. Now we know it's north-way-north of Bard's gate.

      To FGG : I am about to start a Mythic campaign with : WAmulet, CoF, Abysthor, RA, Chaos Rising and Slumbering Tsar, so a quasi-accurate map will be essential for the caravan the players will own. As they would have started from Reme. It would be nice to know how many days west of Fairhill Reme actually is. Also, there is a mention of Freepot in James' comment below. I take it you meant Freegate...... Heavily inspired by Freeport I take it?

    41. John Stanfield on

      "There really is no way as drawn for Reme to be "a large port city" with 8 day march to Fairhill"
      Sure there is:
      http://bigbadron.com/game_rappan/Maps/worldmap.png
      That's what I've been using up till now.

    42. Shadow Demon on

      John, you are correct it is inconsistent. There really is no way as drawn for Reme to be "a large port city" with 8 day march to Fairhill. Although I think the original idea was for the cites of Reme and Freeport to connect sea to sea with the Tradeway. I think that it is important for Reme to remain a port city so the inconsistency may have to remain. Excellent attention to detail,

    43. John Stanfield on

      James, that's my point. The adventure has players moving from Reme to Fairhill (described as about 8 days march) the map does not show Reme and there is about 1,000 miles to that edge of the map.

    44. Shadow Demon on

      Reme is on the western coast so it is off the map to the west.

    45. John Stanfield on

      Love the map, but have a quick question. What happened to Reme? It's mentioned many times in Stoneheart Valley. I would hate to have conflicting material in the new Lost Lands books is the reason I bring it up. And while I have your ear, where is the city of Arenda supposed to be?

    46. Missing avatar

      John "johnkzin" Rudd
      Superbacker
      on

      Ah. What I REALLY want is a map of the entire lost lands.

    47. Jackson Starky on

      Maps!!! And in light of James Redmon's comment, I'll ask another question: Any chance of this map being extended to include the Rappan Athuk area? I had no doubt that there was still more, because coastlines weren't complete. :-)

    48. Machpants on

      D'oh it is a PDF not a web page, sorry! But anyway more maps the merrier.

    49. Machpants on

      YAY I love maps. Can we get a PDF of the hand drawn one at full scale? Cos that is lovely.

    50. Shadow Demon on

      These RA areas are south of the region map. There is still more to the Lost Lands.