Krom am May 17

Just noticed there is an update which brings support for Windows 7? Great thing! Feel free to post updates when there is something new. ;-)

Is there something new for linux as well? Some pre-alpha or whatever, don't care - would love to test it out.

Thank you and keep on going!

Katrina Wawrzynczak am April 16

I still haven't got around to getting an account on the FOVE website, so I'll be sure to post this there when I do, but I've tracked down the primary cause of tracking problems on my system...
(or more specifically, why the Rift headset works fine but the FOVE headset gives all kinds of problems.)

My first clue was that I had the framerate counter active in SteamVR and noticed that most games I were running were frequently dropping down to 45, sometimes as little as 25 fps...

Next I tried to figure out why this was. The resolution of the FOVE is slightly higher, yes, but that shouldn't be enough to do this, right? Especially since I was mostly using a program (Bigscreen VR) that lets you adjust rendering at various multiples of the actual display resolution. (default is 1.5x) this is as Oculus recommended, since this helps smooth things out.
The thing is, lowering this to even 0.5 did not fix the problem.

The next clue was seeing the CPU utilisation while using the FOVE headset compared to a Rift headset. Again, I have a weak CPU (Core i5 - 750 - yes, that's the 750 from 2009)
But it isn't a major performance constraint in most games, or with the Rift...
So why was it causing issues here?

And... That's when I figured it out. My CPU can't handle the eye tracking. And because of that, it cripples the performance of everything.
Well, you might ask though, all the SteamVR programs, and well, all VR programs not specifically made for the Fove don't have eye tracking? How can that matter?
Simple. The driver runs the eye tracking routines whether software is using them or not.

However, if you're observant you'll notice a manual setting. (eye tracking on, left eye only, right eye only). Sure enough, when I forced eye tracking off, suddenly everything was fine.
Apparent tracking and framerate problems vanished, and it was similar to what I'm used to from the Rift.
Not quite as smooth. Which is to be expected from a 70 instead of 90 hz display, and perhaps a lot of subtle optimsations, but it was smooth enough that you wouldn't realise there was a difference unless you use both of them extensively.

Mystery solved then.
So, here's the actual problem that I was facing.

1. My CPU is old, and kind of weak.
2. Eye tracking demands a lot of CPU time (could do with more optimisation if my experience is anything to go by)
3. The eye tracking code, with all it's performance demands, runs whether it's being used or not. - Unless you explicitly disable it.

Point 1 is my own problem.
Point 2 implies the eye tracking code needs performance optimisation if at all possible.
Point 3 is just stupid, and in the long term, eye tracking code shouldn't be running if it isn't doing anything. That's a waste of resources, and causes issues that needn't exist. This isn't critical of course, since there's manual controls, but it's an obvious convenience feature.
No point running eye tracking code for software that does no eye tracking.

On a side note, the eye tracking demo launcher never works right for me. The menu freaks out and my default orientation never makes sense, and eye tracking doesn't work as intended.
This is specific to the launcher, because the demos themselves (performance problems I've already mentioned aside) work more or less as you'd expect.
Whatever is going wrong with the launcher is specific to the launcher. (as opposed to being a more fundamental bug in eye tracking.)

Anyway, I just thought I'd post this here while I can.
I know I should put it on the forum.
And I will.
Eventually. XD

Joseph J Lazar am February 28

FOVE runtime 0.11.3 is now out, go download it https://www.getfove.com/developers/

Nigel John am February 24

Anyone manage to get the tax refunded?I also had to pay the extra £123 on import duty.

Robert White am February 8

For those in the U.K., you can dispute the tax invoice. That's what I'm doing, I'll let you know how it goes.

Jon Ward am February 7

@Adrian - your eyes don't look in the same point, an offset is correct. Your brain merges the images at a point of convergence, so what it represents is correct. When you are blinking and partially occlusion get the eye the system will continue to try to centre the gaze point based on the reflection of your cornea. So if you eye is open the centre is the centre of your pupil, half blinking the centre of the visible pupil is reduced and therefore looks like an offset. You would typically build in blink compensation to work around this or use a sliding window for gaze point to overcome the blinks by smoothing the data. (FYI I specialise in eye tracking for the past 9 years as part of a global reseller of the tech just to validate my position to "preach" :) )

Damien Cheetham

Superbacker

am February 6

Yeah, I thought I'd escaped too ... I've got a £123 demand for the Fove too. Not happy.

I don't think I've receive the Beta code either ..... little disheartened.

Stelgim am February 6

I got my Fove in good condition a week ago, thought I was one of the lucky few to get away from customs.. but today it arrived at 132 Euro, not much and I think it's because Norway isn't in EU. I'm just glad I got the product so fast. Happy to be part of this :)

Jim

Superbacker

am February 6

I just got my Fove this weekend and I'll throw my name in the ring of people who are waiting for Windows 7 support too along side E and Matthew Bukowski. As of right now I have no intentions on upgrading to windows 8.1 or windows 10 and I'd hate to have such a beautiful piece of hardware that I cannot use.

Joseph J Lazar am February 5

I feel dumb ..it was there under the "Promotions" tab in gmail. Thanks! I am however still miffed that my posts are sent to spam on your support forum :/

Michael cabrejos am February 5

I wanted to update that after a restart steam Vr worked as should. This HMD is very clear and I'm really satisfied with my fove. I spent some time playing mervils on steam and I am excited to see where fove goes because this headset feels quality. Thanks for making my Vr dreams a reality people at Fove. Best of luck to the team!

-Michael a proud backer

Raymond Acker am February 5

Any recommendations on touch controllers? Gamepad and M+K are not supported in many games.

Raymond Acker am February 5

@Michael cabrejos, make sure the fat USB is plugged into a 3.0 port. Seems anything less causes problems.

Joseph J Lazar am February 4

If the computer monitor has any effect on the FOVE HMD ..it means FOVE hasn't figured out true direct mode yet. https://github.com/sensics/OSVR-RenderManager/issues/254 (nvidia needs involved to white-list it?)

Adrian Metcalfe am February 4

Has anyone else run the sample Unity project and discovered that they have to look just below the cubes to trigger the lights? No matter how often I recalibrate t never appears to be exactly right.

I have also noticed that when you look at something at a distance, the two eye markers separate significantly, anyone seen this?

Thirdly, the eye looking point markers go mental if you blink, ask, anyone seen this?

David Robidoux am February 4

@Katrina, I believe pitsburghjoe said he changed the refresh rate of the main system monitor as you cant see the Fove in the nvidea control panel

Michael cabrejos am February 4

I'm having trouble getting the steam compositor to start using the fove. It comes on breifly then shuts off and has no video. I will test more tomorrow but I hope to get a solution. It works and displays fine using FOVES compositor but stream Vr compositor doesn't work. I installed the fove steam Vr drivers and steam Vr. I made sure to stop the fove compositior before trying steam Vr.

Joseph J Lazar am February 3

I was either the first or second person to fill out the steam request form but I have not received it yet. Is it for the same reason my posts don't show up on your forum (why am I on a spam list?)

Joseph J Lazar am February 3

Jeremy, if your monitor is set to 120hz ..try pulling it down to 60hz

Jeremy Anderson am February 3

@katrina thanks for the comments and speculation on my issues. Yeah, i agree it might be my head, but if the tracking & update systems are laggy (just watching the tracking app lets me see that there are lots of stutters in between patches of perfect fluidity) makes me realize that it's partly my fault. The other problem is the headset has a different inertia than my head. I wear glasses, so i can't strap it down super tight or my lenses collide with Fove's lenses. I need to get some fresh contacts (or laser surgery...) apparently! So if the headset is still adjusting (mass-inertia-wise) to the most recent movements of my head, that is picked up by the motion tracker and it makes things keep moving (just a little) until all the forces settle.

Looks like i just got my Steam Beta key, so i'll give some other content a try...

Manuel am February 3

Wich controller can I use with Fove, ( Vive controller or other) ?
The head tracking have many lag in steam game.
Thanks

Katrina Wawrzynczak am February 3

Gaah. Did it again. >_<
XD

VIVE/SteamVR controllers. >__<

Oculus Rift, HTC vive, and Fove... 3 different things...
So why do I keep confusing that in my head? XD

Anyway...

Katrina Wawrzynczak am February 3

@David Robidoux. - Interesting. Is that the refresh settings of the headset, or of the monitor on my system? (Mine is only capable of 60 hz. Or was it 75? Ah well. XD)

@Fove. I'll remember that, and if I have any more detailed information I'll be sure to pass it on.

... Also, every time I read my old comments back I see new mistakes. >_<
I meant of course that games on steam seem to sometimes be behaving as if the FOVE headset is a Vive headset, and in particular thus assuming that the Fove/SteamVR controllers are available, and setting up inputs accordingly.
Then again I can't be sure that isn't caused by the SteamVR drivers I have installed for the Razer Hydra...
Hmm. Lots of things to test...

Ruiz Philippe am February 2

I feel à little sad i just gent m'y Fove it look awsome but i triéd to instal it and it can't ... Because not enouth ram .... M'y pc got a i3 and 6 giga octe ram .... Could it be possible to créate a new setup with out this limitation Iven if the eye tracking systèmes is not active .... Please

David Robidoux am February 2

@Katrina, I saw a post on the developer blog by pittsburghjoe, that says he got reduced the Jitter by changing the monitor frequency from 120 Hz to 60.

Katrina Wawrzynczak am February 2

Yes, I'll be sure to check out the forums when I have the time. I can be a bit slow with things that require extra user accounts. I have way too many sets of logins and passwords as it is. XD
But I'll get to it eventually I'm sure.

By the way earlier when I said 'red dot' the eye tracking calibration is of course a green dot on a grey background. Wonderful memory I've got huh. XD

Had a chance to check out the steam drivers too now. That worked, once I realised I had to disable the FOVE compositor. (with it turned on there was some seriously nasty visual corruption going on)
The tracking problems are the same as with the starfield, but it works in the programs I tested.
- mostly.
Some seem to assume it's a FOVE headset, and then seem to behave as if I have the controllers available, which is a little problematic. (for comparison, using an oculus rift on SteamVR makes the assumption you have an xbox controller. Don't exactly know why, but I've noticed issues with this in the past too. Game developers seem to have a habit of hardcoding the expected game controllers for each headset for some reason. Kind of frustrating at times.)

The tracking problems are interesting because from what I've been able to observe most of the problems are with rotational movements. The tracking camera and translation movements are surprisingly robust even facing away from the tracking camera, and it doesn't look like there's any LED's on the back, so that's interesting.

But rotational motion is... At various times, unstable, laggy (high latency) and prone to sudden jumps, or sometimes not updating at all.
Then at other times it can suddenly be a lot better, but then it just drops again.

If I can find the time I might have to see if I can investigate more directly, maybe by coding a test program or two and verifying where the problems seem to start...
I'm sure the team is looking into it, but it never hurts to have extra people investigating things.

Katrina Wawrzynczak am February 1

@Jeremy Anderson - Could be a number of issues. I also have an RX480, and the rotational tracking of the Fove is quite laggy compared to what I'm used to (that's not going to help feeling sick)
The inter-ocular distance I presume is intended to be calibrated by the eye tracking system, since that is theoretically one of the things you can determine if you know where a person's eyes are in relation to a fixed set of lenses. (you can perhaps even work it out dynamically as the eyes move)
But there are possible limitations in having lenses in a fixed position.

I did notice the jitter in the starfield, but as people are very rarely truly motionless, I wouldn't know if it's errors in the tracking data or that you are in fact moving your head.
I think if it's actual head movements then smoothing it out may actually cause more illness than not smoothing it.
After all, you may not be consciously aware of subtle head motions, but you probably ARE aware of them on some level...

I just did a check by putting the headset in a position where it can't physically move much (firmly on a table) and most of the jitter was gone.
That seems like actual head movements.

The latency of this headset seems like it could use finetuning (assuming it's on the software side)
I also notice that on my system (I have a weak CPU, which may be making things worse) that opening the configuration panel tends to make the headset tracking latency much worse.

Still, without a thorough investigation of what the SDK is (and is not) doing I wouldn't be able to say much more about this.

This stuff is complicated and the sum of many smaller, subtler issues can create big problems.

Still curious what the claimed performance issues on AMD hardware is about.
It doesn't send a particularly good message to say that only one gpu manufacturer works correctly.

It was already sending a pretty bad message to see how fussy oculus software is about USB 3, but being that fussy about graphics cards manufacturers (at least between Nvidia and AMD) is considerably worse.
Still, the headset does work, but that warning must have a reason, right?
What is it you've done? What proprietary nvidia library are you leaning too heavily on perhaps?
Or rather, what is it that is causing vendor specific performance issues like this?
Anyway...
Still, hoping to see something else to play around with soon. XD
Haven't got the time to get into any coding attempts just yet...

Jeremy Anderson am February 1

FOVE 0 arrived! After some struggles getting the display to light up, I realized that I needed to plug the FOVE into my first (primary) video card (an AMD Radeon RX480) rather than my secondary (a second RX480).

I'm pretty sure the inter-ocular distance isn't quite right for me as my eyes want to cross a little and find locking on things in the field of view (such as the green calibration dot) a bit of a challenge.

Also, I'm a tad nauseous after just a few minutes of looking around the starfield. I've not had that problem before. I think it's related to the inter-ocular distance being off and the head tracking being intermittently laggy / jittery (e.g., just "sitting still" the starfield 'wiggles' periodically. I think some smoothing function may need to be introduced to help with that...

Overall I'm excited to try the Steam beta. I think a proper game will likely solve the problems (well, it won't solve the inter-ocular issue, but that's an aside) as there will be more to look at than just empty space... =^)

Joseph J Lazar am February 1

Do google logins at support.getfove.com get ignored? I have had this post "pending" for 19 hours now, but have seen other posts appear since then. Am I doing something wrong? http://imgur.com/a/RNwhb

Jeremy Anderson am February 1

Found out yesterday when I got home from work that FOVE had arrived! Yay!

Also found out that it was signature required, so I have to wait until today to actually receive it when FedEx retries delivery. haha! So looking forward to it!

Katrina Wawrzynczak am February 1

OK, I've got it plugged in and configured now. Nothing to test it with as of yet, so all I have is the starfield.
With the headset working and adjusted better, it's more consistently comfortable, but the design is still less comfortable than a rift, and more hassle as well when putting on and taking off.
The extra weight/poor balance is still somewhat apparent if I lean my head forward, as it does pull more than I'm used to.
Software is rough around the edges, but as this is still in the realms of prototype/developer hardware that was to be expected. (you should have seen the software for the Oculus DK1 XD)
The tracking camera is easy to knock over, and rotational tracking is less smooth than I'm used to (more in line with that DK1 than any commercial headset)
This might be a side effect of me having AMD hardware though. Not sure what the performance issues the installer mentions are about exactly, but it definitely isn't the smoothest experience.
Eye tracking, insofar as I've been able to verify it works (quite hard to check the debug info in the config tool while wearing the headset, and if you're not wearing the headset, eye tracking data doesn't work. XD)

I'd like to have some more to test it with, because right now there's literally nothing unless you install unity. (I do SOME amateur software development in theory, but I have little interest in using unity for anything.)
The Asuna demo launcher is available, but not if you're outside Japan or Korea, and there is no equivalent to it available at the moment.
I will say however that from the starfield alone, and wearing it for a while I'm starting to like it more than that initial reaction might have suggested.
I hope to be able to test something more substantial soon though.

also. a warning to anyone else like me that has multiple VR headsets.
I couldn't get the FOVE to work initially (a lack of easy to find installation instructions didn't help), and it turns out that the Oculus VR runtime clashes with the FOVE runtime.
Since Oculus has a windows service that runs all the time, whether there is a headset plugged in or not, you have to go into the windows task manager, find the services tab and stop all oculus related services, or the FOVE headset won't work.
Eye tracking also doesn't work if the calibration process isn't done first, but sometimes the calibration seems to get skipped.
Unless the first thing you see after putting on the headset is a little red dot, you might have missed the eye tracking calibration.
The headset still works without that, but the eye tracking does not.

Anyway, that's it for my first impressions so far.

Maybe not the best place for comments like this longterm, but for now I thought it was interesting to mention some of that stuff here on kickstarter.

Matthew Bukowski am February 1

Received yesterday.
Hardware/first impressions:
1) Box is nice and tidy.
2) Headset appears to fit over my small-medium frame glasses, though it requires them to be pushed very close to my eyes - some slight discomfort - don't know how this will affect long-term use.
3) First time user of VR headsets - weight did seem a little forward/unbalanced though.
4) Tracking camera is a little bit flimsy, but the adjustable/flexible tripod can make up for it.

Some other design thoughts:
It would be pretty convenient to be able to disconnect the headset directly from the unit, as opposed to disconnecting the plugs from the machine's ports. This allows one to easily store the HMD unit in a safe dust-free place until it's ready to be used again, without going behind a machine to disconnect the HDMI + USB plugs. I'm a bit curious on the decision to go with HDMI - it seems like DisplayPorts/DVI are the standard on newer video cards. Only 1 HDMI port exists on the 980ti (which is currently allocated to the TV in my room). To avoid the hassle of switching the plugs, I had to order a DP -> HDMI adapter.

Software/functionality impressions:
Unable to test this, as I'm on Win 7 SP1. Patiently awaiting Win 7 support. :)

David Mortensen am February 1

I just received my Fove0 but i had to pay 1875,55 DKK or nearly 270 US dollars, which in my book is way too much because as you guys can probably see it is over 50% of the headsets value alone for us backers!

Katrina Wawrzynczak am February 1

@Elliander Eldridge - Yes, I realised my mistake the moment I thought to check your kickstarter profile. XD
I've had similar problems with deliveries here, I think.
I have a small house, and don't even have a doorbell, but even so it sometimes feels like some deliveries aren't even attempted - I just get a notice in the mailbox and have to go to the post office.
Very much feels like they don't even bother with the delivery.

That wasn't true in this case though. (it tends to be Australia Post which behaves suspiciously I've found.)

... I remember getting hit with import fees in the UK at times, but there was nothing here.
(but I'm in Australia now, not the UK, so that's not comparable.)
Hopefully because there are no fees to pay, not because I just haven't heard about it yet... >_<

@David Robidoux That does make a lot of sense.
I hope everyone gets their Fove soon.

It was interesting opening the package, and seeing the final thing.
I haven't had time to test it, but my first impressions of the headset itself were mixed.
It felt rather heavy on my face and a bit unbalanced.
The tracking camera is also very clearly an afterthought, when you compare it to the headset.
It's understandable, but a little disappointing.
The weight of it especially concerns me, since I can feel it pulling my head down.

In case you're wondering I have an oculus rift CV1 here as well, which is what I'm using as a point of comparison, but I have to say the headset just doesn't feel very comfortable to me, and the weight makes me wonder if I can wear it for extended periods the way I already know I can wear the rift.
I've worn a rift headset without issue for hours, but in hot weather it heats up enough to be uncomfortable - the issue I'm concerned with here is that the FOVE headset already feels heavy and unbalanced after a few seconds. It's not just absolute weight, it's that the FOVE seems to have it's centre of mass much further forward, away from the face.

I realise the eye tracking components add weight and complexity to what's inside the headset, but ergonomics are very important for something you might be wearing on your head for hours on end.

Anyway, the current headset is what it is, but if you can work on this for future designs that'd be a good idea, because it doesn't matter how amazing the technology in a headset is if it's not comfortable to wear.
I'm not saying the current headset is too uncomfortable to use by the way, but it is dramatically less comfortable than a rift headset, and that is something that could do with improvement if it's at all possible to do anything about in future.

Ali Yonca am February 1

I trust you guys, pls work hard and make Fove N1.

Ali Yonca am February 1

Dear Fove,
My Fove stuck in customs, 3 days past already, and FedEx representative ask me to pay almost $80 for customs taxes, I paid to get my Fove and I belive it will arrived tomorrow.

I hope they don't break anything.

David Robidoux am January 31

All, just wanted to let you know that I received my headset yesterday and all things considered I was happy to have others to share this experience with. So far my Fove is behaving as expected so let the developing begin! I'm sure some us will share more on the developer site so good luck to all!

Jon Ward am January 31

Hi @Creator - I have some other units on order #7946 pre-ordered from the web. Any way I can see estimated shipping dates on that? You don't have an online order look up?

Roger Ryder am January 31

I have my FOVE, Iowa Park TX at 10:49am, Windows Holographic platform support would be amazing with FOVE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch…

https://www.youtube.com/watch…

E am January 31

I think I see the issue, the server OS are based on Windows 7 and Windows 8. And I see minimum is 8.1. Sigh. Is Windows 7+ support going to come any time soon? That makes up over 50% of the windows install base even now.

E am January 31

@FOVE - Yey! Just got it, any reason why the setup is not allowed on Windows Server machines? I understand many applications are limited to separate consumer and server OS. But for development, some use Windows Server editions as workstations. Also, when running the executable, it says non-Nvidia GPUs have performance issues?

Adrian Metcalfe am January 31

@Fove, just received my HMD, it looks good! Looking forward to playing with the Unity examples and creating some eye tracked experiences!

Jarrad Gittos am January 31

Hi FOVE team. I've received my FOVE, box and contents are presented beautifully. I believe I may have a faulty eye tracking camera, as I can't calibrate the FOVE, and I don't have any visual feedback in the config file for my eyes (tracking data doesn't work, video feed doesn't show anything - positional tracker camera DOES work though). I have sent an email to the support email, I'd appreciate some assistance sometime :)

Adrian Metcalfe am January 31

@fove Just wanted to add a point about the sending as a gift ideas. Even items sent as gifts into the uk are subject to duty and VAT, if they are valued over £30.

In the past I have received 3 VR HMDs (DK1, DK2, XGVR-PC) which were all of similar value and have never had to pay any fees on them. The difference appears to be that these were shipped in bulk to a European distribution centre and then dispatched individually. The 13% import (into Europe) duty tax must have been paid by somebody and therefore was probably rolled into the original pricing. The extra 20% UK VAT would then not have been charged as the item appears to be coming to the consumer from within Europe.

Having to pay £111.58 to the UK government was annoying but it was the £12 tax payment handling charge that I had to pay FedEx just so they could pass the tax on is what annoyed me the most.

Given the problems I have had with FedEx over the past few years, both with shipping and receiving, I would urge everybody to use anybody other than FedEx whenever possible.

Anyway, still might get my Fove today. Tracking info states that it is in a city 10 miles from my house but they can't give an estimated date of delivery... good old FedEx...