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Journey through unforgiving dungeons in this 90's inspired action-adventure, where a young hero rises to prevent a war of the elements.
3,359 backers pledged $73,470 to help bring this project to life.

2015 Post-mortem - Refunds & The Future of Midora

Posted by Epic Minds (Creator)
38 likes

Before I begin with the news, I would like to wish anyone reading this a Happy New Year. I believe 2016 to be the year of hope, the year of change. I believe optimism and hard work to be the keys to success. I come to you with late news but news nonetheless.

For the whole month of December, seeing as getting any sort of deal with investors or publishers failed, I took the time to reflect on everything that happened and prepare myself. I can't say I didn't see this coming. In fact, I've been preparing myself to the idea of failure ever since the kickstarter got funded. The one thing I knew I would do, should everything else fail, is offer refunds. This is what this update is mostly about, so here are the key points:

1) Why refunds?

We took your money to create a game and simply failed to deliver. This shouldn't need explaining but, at the end of the day, we are not thieves. The project failed for many reasons, including unexpected events and different outcomes regarding what we had accomplished. Not everything went according to plan and this is the situation that we're in. The best way to one day create Midora is to simply stop trying now and come back to it once everything has healed. I want to come back to this project once we have enough to see this project through, from wherever we left off to finish.

2) Why now?

Because it's time. I wanted to finish 2015 by making sure we did everything that we could to fix this, and I am now glad it's over. This new step is the first step on the path to a clean sheet. Offering refunds might delay our plans to one day come back to this quite significantly but that's a truth I am willing to accept, a reality I have to accept.

3) How?

That's the tricky part. I take full responsability for this project and the failures and will be the only one offering refunds. Everyone in the team but me currently has a job, and I am actively looking for work at time of writing. I am also working on a few side projects, all of which don't require a budget, some of which will hopefully allow me to come back to Midora one day. I first have to pay back close relatives and other parties that helped me way before the kickstarter. Then, I will have to stabilize my own situation. I can't offer refunds as soon as I earn money from a new job. I will need to save up money to create my own insurance, to be able to cover unexpected situations, emergencies.

However, once that's done, I don't have many options and I won't be able to offer refunds to certain people. Some people have pledged quite a bit of money on this kickstarter and I can't exactly repay them in full. Not at first. There is also the problem of how money will be transfered, and for this only one option is available to me: PayPal. This will certainly make some of you upset but, as someone who currently lives in Europe, I don't have many other options.

Once I am ready to comfortably offer refunds, I will open a new webpage where all backers will be able to make a claim and be put on a waiting list. There is no real way to make it fair for everyone, so refunds will be issued in order. At the end/beginning of every month, I will figure out how much of what I have can be spent on refunds (that is all the money that won't be spent on wages), transfer all of it using PayPal, then clear your name from the database.

Looking at my current timeline, it looks like I will be able to start offering refunds sometime next Summer. I will keep everyone updated on how things are going, and everyone will be given fair warnings, reminders.

4) So what will happen of Midora?

With the decision of offering refunds, Midora certainly becomes a distant dream. However, I am not giving up on it at all. My goal is to get back on this project as soon as possible, using money I will hopefully make on other projects. This kickstarter is not dead, and everyone who has pledged money, without claiming a refund, will remain in the database. Your pledge data isn't going anywhere, which means you will still receive your reward if I can finish the game one day.

With that said, I am hoping some or most of you will not ask for a refund, at least not yet, in order to help me find some sort of balance. The less refunds, the sooner you can expect me to go back to Midora and bring you the game we all believed in from the start.

Finally, I would like to talk about the comment section of this kickstarter, as well as a few other places online where some people like to trash the game. I am not reading/replying to kickstarter comments anymore, I gave up on that after the previous kickstarter update. I cannot and will not spend my time replying to the nonsense some backers like to spread. Some backers simply assume the wrong things, and I have to stop caring about that. You should too.

I am still thankful that the majority (well over 3000) of you still support the game and wish to see it happen. I am certainly not going to forget what you all have done in 2014 anytime soon. I will fight to make this dream come true again. I will not reply to any comment or even private message about this update just yet. I will host a dedicated forum once things have truly changed, where I will answer any question you have about the game, refunds and everything else.

I wish you all luck in whatever dream you are pursuing. Stay safe, stand proud, be happy.

-Mhyre, Game Director

Fadly Rizal, Gregory Gonzalez, and 36 more people like this update.

Comments

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    1. Missing avatar

      Rachel Madison on

      My credit card expired, so I didn't get a refund. Enjoy the $10, thieves.

    2. Brushforhire on

      Almost a year since this update, and not a single word. The creator cannot blame backers for being upset about this.

    3. Michael Bäck on

      Haven't heard anything in a long time, I doubt the refunds will be going out. I pledged quite alot for my general income - so it would be nice.

    4. Wang Yudong on

      @Kai No one, and almost no hope to have your refund.

    5. Kai Drawwater on

      Has anyone had a refund yet?

    6. Ether101 on

      Hey, could you contact me, here or anywhere else, so that we could talk privately about this project, please?

    7. Brushforhire on

      With absolutely no updates, communication, or anything, it is no wonder that there is the negativity on here, that there is. Using the negativity as an excuse for going dark is just sad, especially when the levels of dissatisfaction came about because of things like the lack of insight as to what is happening.

    8. jourpool on

      Keep my money. Good luck guys!

    9. Brian Harkless on

      I gave $10, keep it. Best of luck in the future.

    10. Dean Sands on

      I knew the risk. Keep my money. You guys are alright in my book.

    11. Brushforhire on

      Happy two year funded anniversary!

    12. SpiderFighter on

      “Washington state will not tolerate crowdfunding theft,” Washington Attorney General Bob Ferguson said in a statement. “If you accept money from consumers, and don’t follow through on your obligations, my office will hold you accountable.”

    13. Adam Aeyne on

      I'd like a refund as well.

    14. Tracey Craig
      Superbacker
      on

      @Dale

      We aint investors! An investor gets a return on their money...

    15. Missing avatar

      Brandon Ma on

      I'd like a refund as well.

    16. Zettai
      Superbacker
      on

      Indeed Dale, but in this case the developer offered refunds so...

      I'd love a refund :)

    17. Dale Thiessen on

      EVERYONE WAITING FOR REFUNDS:
      Kickstarter is an online community where anyone can post a project, and the investors come to them.
      In this transaction, we, the investors, got screwed.
      This is how investments work.
      You pitch money toward a project that may or may not work out.
      If it works out, that's great! We reap the rewards!
      If it doesn't work out, we get nothing.
      Just because enough people think a project is a good idea, and the required funds are raised, that doesn't guarantee that those working on the project are capable (or in some cases, willing) to complete it.

      TL;DR: Investments are always a gamble - please contribute responsibly.

    18. Zakk on

      Still waiting for refund.

    19. Thomas
      Superbacker
      on

      At this point in time, I'm pretty sure those at Epic Minds are using the backer's money to snort cocaine... Their last update was January. It's almost June, and not a whisper of how they're going to do refunds. I've already said that I don't want one. However I'd like the opportunity in something other than a comment thread that's fucking dead to officially say that.

    20. Jesús Cepeda Cid on

      Waiting for refund

    21. Chayne VandeZande
      Superbacker
      on

      I agree with many of the comments here: going silent = REALLY BAD and infuriating to say the least. Owning up to not being able to produce, as opposed to giving the run around or making excuses or dragging it out for years... I can respect that. I'm down right red-faced at some of my other backed ventures on here, but this I can live with. I'm glad I gave you my money, and with all sincerity and best wishes you can keep it. With one caveat: make this thing a reality. Whether that involves me waiting for a few years for you to do it, or you opening this thing up to your backer community here as a collaboration-style project, I want the finished product. And if I had my choice, I would personally vote for a collaboration. You honestly have a solid fan base that I'm sure have at least a bit of experience/knowledge with not just video games in general, but with coding and all the back-end stuff as well. Not only would you restore faith in most of your backers, you would get some much needed assistance that would cost you nothing more than your time to oversee the project. Add to that the fact that this could be a truly unique experience for most, to be openly involved in the creation process for a PC game and you have a one-of-a-kind game that nobody will ever forget being a part of, and that's a reward you'd have a hard time putting a price on.

      Again, keep my money, make this a reality, and send me a Steam key when you do. Just keep an open mind and truly consider what Sam Roberts has suggested: open this thing up and watch it go.

    22. Missing avatar

      -DarkWing- on

      xD So this guy was always sure of completing, securing a publisher etc... and now is not even on the table to finish the game. You can give me a refund, even if my tier was low i don't think the way you managed was profesional.

    23. Gustavo Lemes on

      Waiting a refund.

    24. Sean Harvey on

      I am still waiting on a refund.

    25. Christian Lin on

      im just sad there isnt a game for me to play after a full year. please produce it eventually, i really liked the concept :(

    26. Missing avatar

      Sean C Emmons on

      Keep my money. You'll still make this game and I want it when you do.

    27. Missing avatar

      Mnementh on

      I support the idea of Sam Roberts of open-sourcing the work done so far.

    28. Mark Vuong on

      I Will Take a refund Please.

    29. Missing avatar

      Sam Roberts on

      I want either a refund or an open-sourcing of the code. Whichever. It's fine if you don't want to finish the project with the KS money, but at least let some level of community in an work with what you've built.

    30. Reading Owl on

      No refund for me. Backing a project is always a risk, especially when it comes to games, and I honestly prefer something like this over someone just going silent. I wish you the best in your future, and hopefully we'll someday see Midora again.

    31. Jen on

      This is terribly disappointing but must be infinitely so for Mhyre. I'm happy for no refund as long as I get a high res file of my NPC. I'm feeling conflicted about losing $100. I'm not wealthy. However, I believed in something and put my faith into a project I wanted desperately to see completed, and I don't regret it. My experience with Midora will make me more cautious, however, I think it's important to still believe in creators in general. It's easy to get excited about a great idea, but perhaps in future Mhyre, you might exercise caution in ambition. Best of luck to you going forward.
      Jen

    32. Tracey Craig
      Superbacker
      on

      @Nick

      Epic Minds misappropriated the funds we gave them, they have spent very little on the game, and more on themselves and probably that stupid mobile game Treasure whatever it's called, they also lied through their teeth from start to finish. Is it any wonder publishers won't touch them? They were offered FREE help to finish the game which they REFUSED not once but TWICE. These guys will never work in the games industry ever again.

    33. Tracey Craig
      Superbacker
      on

      @Martin

      Tell us what you think that cost to make, in it's current state.

    34. Martin on

      You can keep my money only if you show us something of the game.
      Doesnt matter if its buggy, looks shit or what ever.
      Great a video again or build a version of the current development state.
      Show us that you have work on it in the last 2 years.

      I develop previously games too and in 2 year with a full time job I get a lot of progress.
      it is now your duty to show us something.

      People that trusted you!

    35. Luke Altieri on

      This whole thing could've been avoided if you set your Kickstarter target at the required amount in the first place.

      The fact that you set it at 60k, knowing full-well that that wouldn't be enough to see the project through, was utterly dishonest and is the sole cause of your problems now.

      Set the right target. Then, you either have enough money to get the thing made, or the kickstart doesn't succeed and you're no worse for it. Now you just have an angry fan base, a bunch of debt, and a whole bunch of wasted time.

    36. Brushforhire on

      I did read the link and it is very clear, the link does not state verbatim that a refund is owed, but it does state that the creator does have to fulfill their end, in form or another.

      The link even goes as far as to state that the creator could be open to legal action. As has been seen in several other kickstarters that did not deliver.

      My main point I wanted to get across was that we are owed something, whether it is a game, or a refund. The risk for us was the quality of the game, how much we would enjoy the game, etc. The risk was not that we would be out money.

      As the link states:

      "When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

      Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.

      If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

      they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
      they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
      they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
      they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
      they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.

      The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers."

      Not delivering a game, in turn, entitles us to a refund.

      If someone doesn't want a refund, that is totally cool, but anyone who wants one is completely entitled to it at this point. I don't feel that offering refunds is misunderstanding kickstarter at all. I believe it is the stand-up thing to do.

      Under kickstarter's FAQ it also says this:

      "If the problems are severe enough that the creator can't fulfill their project, creators need to find a resolution. Steps should include offering refunds, detailing exactly how funds were used, and other actions to satisfy backers. For more information, see Section 4 of our Terms of Use."

      Delays and the such happen, but when in the end there is no product that we pledged for, then it is only right to offer refunds. Again, if people don't want theirs, that is totally fine.

    37. Missing avatar

      Joshua Hanby
      Superbacker
      on

      It's always important to carefully read a link you offer being lecturing about it:
      "A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if...
      ...they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged)"

      The FAQ you reference does not say you'll get your money back. It says that if there are funds left, you are entitled to a portion of it proportional to what you contributed.

      I've been happy to be along for the ride thus far and seeing how things have developed. I'm disappointed I won't be getting to play anytime soon but don't regret my contributions. Keep at it and let us know if you have any more developments or ideas or if you need any help :)

    38. Brushforhire on

      Actually offering refunds is exactly what should be done. I will leave this right here: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use#section4. There whole point of having a goal is to get enough backers to reach said goal, to achieve the products financial demand. If enough people back it, and the goal is reached, we will receive the product when it is done. If we do not received what we are told we will for the money we chip in, then we are deserving a refund. We are not business partners who are donating, and hoping to received something. If you read the FAQs on kickstarter it is very clear that if a goal is met, the creator is to deliver.

    39. Nick on

      I think that offering refunds fundamentally misunderstands what Kickstarter is. I did not buy a product from you. I donated money to give you a chance to make something. You've failed to do it with the money you were given, and that's disappointing for everybody, but you don't owe any of us anything, and anybody that doesn't understand that should never have been using Kickstarter in the first place.

      At this point offering refunds because you've run out of money is an irresponsible thing to do to yourself, and I feel like you're only doing it because you feel like you deserve it. I wish you wouldn't. Even disregarding the fact that you probably don't deserve it, it's also encouraging other people to use Kickstarter irresponsibly if they think this is a thing that should happen.

    40. PAC918 on

      Yeah, my $10 wasn't much and it remains as so. Keep it. Keep doing what you can for your project.

    41. barktwiggs on

      Keep the money dude! Keep the dream alive...and expectations and goals reasonable.

    42. Alexander P. Mann on

      I backed for $10, and unlike a majority here. I WANT my refund. Also because I backed this game twice. Once here, and once on Humble Bundle.. The fact that the projections were incredibly off, not to mention outsourcing the project through other means for backing without a proper game.. that just shows poor ethics. Basically you got your initial IPO, you went for a 2nd without properly explaining you had no product.. then went bankrupt. I want my money, this game won't get finished for years, and I don't like the lack of communication/ethics on your part. Yea, it's ONLY $10, but that was MY $10, that of which I actually worked for..

    43. Missing avatar

      Kuyler on

      No refund. The drama surrounding this project entertained me far more than any video game possibly could.

    44. Edward Culbreath
      Superbacker
      on

      No refund for me, thanks.

    45. Missing avatar

      BlackMercury-8 on

      No refund for me, period. I don't consider my pledge to this project a loss at all. I backed this kickstarter because it has potential and I want it to see it succeed. I understand that game development can be unpredictable at times, and despite your project's shortcomings, I believe that your game will eventually come to fruition. Use this as a learning experience of being a little more realistic with producing a budget for your game. So until then, I wish you the best of luck out there. Keep Midora on the back burner as long as you need to. Work hard to get yourself stable again and then when your ready, do your best of making Midora into a reality.

    46. Rick Mares on

      I too, require no refund, and would rather see you tuck it away over time towards this project at a later time.

    47. Dustin on

      I refuse a refund. Keep it. As everyone else said, Kickstarter is risk investments. I think you under-budgeted the whole project by a lot, and that's how you put this project in this position. It was your modesty. Admirable, but hopefully you learned something too! Get back on your feet and make games again! Hire a project manager, so that you can be creative director! Hope you follow your dream!