Share this project

Done

Share this project

Done
Journey through unforgiving dungeons in this 90's inspired action-adventure, where a young hero rises to prevent a war of the elements.
3,359 backers pledged $73,470 to help bring this project to life.

Calling all publishers and investors - let's talk numbers.

Posted by Epic Minds (Creator)
15 likes

Hello,

I really wish that I could've posted an update a week after the previous one, just like I promised. Except things did not go according to plan. I was perhaps too hopeful, but is it wrong to be hopeful? Our search for publishers and investors is, unfortunately, still not over. We've had opportunities with big names in the industry and, while they were all truly interested, their own schedule and projects was often the number one reason a partnership/agreement could not be made.

I would now like to address concerns that, while they are understandable, do not help our situation and give us a bad image. I feel it is time to be as transparent as possible and even give you actual numbers. Some people still believe that Midora is just "vaporware". I really have no way of showing everyone the work that has been put into finding a true partnership in the last few months, but I will say it again and again: I am never giving up on this game, and this has never been my intention. I will do whatever it takes to get the game I want to make into your hands. The game is complete on paper and the team has nothing but talent. Money is all that we need. Nothing can happen without money. Money is our final boss.

On the subject of money, there are certain things that I will admit. I will admit that the amount needed to create this game was largely underestimated for the campaign. I knew that the game would need more than $60,000 to be made. However, like many others, I didn't think for one second we could reach a goal higher than $60,000, especially after two failed campaigns and no prior advertising. With $60,000 in our hands, it would have been rather easy to create an Early Access and go from there. That part you probably knew already, and we aren't the first to have made poor decisions. Now what most of you don't know is how much was actually used in the development so far, and the answer is very simple: all of it. But how much exactly? Between $45,000 and $50,000. You wanted numbers, you got numbers. Not a single cent of that money was used to pay anything other than bills, food and development costs.

"But wait, kickstarter only takes 5% of the total! How can that be?". One word: taxes. We were heavily taxed from all places imaginable and everybody wanted a piece. We of course knew that would happen, but we never expected to be left with so little. After hiring another artist and paying existing debts, there was not much to work with... and yet we tried. We tried as hard as we could to bring you Early Access and we nearly succeeded. What we have done in 3 months last year was the most we had ever done on any project, and it was amazing. And yet we could not release anything due to lack of money, often doubts and poor timing. Running out of money quick has a way of pressuring you and transforming your life into a mess, simply because you need to secure more before it happens.

Somehow, after all of this, we are still here. We may not update you guys much on what is going on, but you can trust that we're doing everything we can to get back to work. If you want to know exactly how much money we need to finish this game, I will tell you: between $120,000 and $150,000. The programming of the game can be done in a matter of 3 to 4 months if we get a second programmer on the team, while the art would take 6 months with the current artists, perhaps 5 if we hire a third talent. That is if everyone works fulltime and is paid fulltime.

I would like to call all publishers and investors that could potentially be interested in the game. We have all that you need to make a decision and we're ready to be generous, provided that you help us in the first place. We want things to move on, to progress. If you are yourself interested or know anyone that could be interested, please leave us a message on kickstarter, facebook, twitter... anywhere really, as long as it's private. Feel free to suggest companies or suggest us to other companies if you think that could help as well. We are ready to talk.

-Mhyre
Game Director

Fadly Rizal, Richard Lewis, and 13 more people like this update.

Comments

Only backers can post comments. Log In
    1. SpiderFighter on

      All that this massive amount of negativity will achieve is burnout, for the devs and investors alike. They know they screwed up, they admit to fraudulent behavior; they (and we) all see the press reports, but they're still here, slogging it out (even if they are still making poor decisions). I've invested in at least one other game that has been "temporarily" on hold for a year and a half now, so I give them credit for at least being brave enough to admit their failings . I'm going to repost Akule's post, as I think it's the best thing here, and I'd like to make sure others see it, and the devs respond to his question.

      Posted by Akule on October 8:
      "Okay. I can understand some of the irritation, but really, everyone. Spreading bad press and getting furious in these comment threads will only end up demoralizing the staff and will put the final nail in the coffin. If you are looking to create a self-fulfilling prophecy of the game never being made, then by all means, please keep it up.
      If you want the game to actually be created, then perhaps you should let them either continue to work on getting an investor/publisher or work slowly through the development of the game.
      Back when they mentioned that they needed to pause development on Midora so they could make a quick game in order to generate more needed revenue, people exploded, and made them scrap that project. Now they have hit the end of the money and have to work a normal job to pay the bills, you want them to stop doing THAT and focus on Midora.
      Do you actually want the game to be made?
      To Mhyre:
      I know this is a full game with RPG and story elements, so creating and plotting it out would take longer than non-rpg games. If the investor/developer hunt does not pan out, and you revisited the idea of pausing Midora development to work on the secondary project, how long would development for the secondary project need to be?
      The reason why I ask is: Development is basically already delayed. If you were able to (relatively) quickly produce the other project in order to generate revenue to fund this project to the full development, then it sounds like that would be better than developers working on Midora during their free/personal time."

    2. Michael Lipinski
      Superbacker
      on

      Fran Bow - $28,295 Indiegogo campaign finished 2 years ago - Released - Post Mortem on entire dev cycle including sacrifices the two developers made and how the project almost ruined their marriage: https://killmonday.wordpress.com/2015/10/02/fran-bow-and-the-mortem-post/

      Mother 4 - Completely free, fan made, full video game - Released: http://www.mother4game.com/

      Tormentum: Dark Sarrow - $11,538 Indiegogo campaign funded a year ago - Released - So successful they had another successfully funded Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ohnoo/tsioque-an-animated-2d-adventure-game/description

      AdventurOS - $21,323 successfully funded Indiegogo campaign two years ago - Not released, however development continues on this game after being plagued by complications including international law. Staff stays upbeat, moves to other countries, and keeps their fan base informed: http://adventuros.evelend.com/blog/

      A Song for Viggo - $21,368 successfully funded Kickstarter campaign funded over a year ago - Not released, however gives constant updates about every 2-3 weeks that are optimistic and offer insight into development process: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/109042642/a-song-for-viggo-a-game-made-of-paper-unfolding-de/description

      These people deserve to have their game made and played. These people worked hard and sacrificed to make their dreams come true. I see no such devotion from you. I see no ownership in the post you made above. I just see you begging for $200k more money and blaming others for why you did not succeed yet.

      Get it together so we can enjoy your completed dream.

    3. Adriano Chamon Tavares on

      Hi, my name's Adriano and i'm from Brazil (because of that, sorry about any errors with my english).

      You know, i need answers. Everyone who backed you need.
      For all Midora team i ask: WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
      By what i have readed in other websites, you demanded for us 60k for funding MIDORA and you achieved, raising up a little more than 70k... But you KNEW that this WASN'T sufficient since the beginning of the project, and that 200k or more will be enough.
      You know, this was my first project backed on kickstarter, as a huge Zelda fan, and i also called a friend of mine to back you TOO. We backed you with 10 dollars each - and if i remember it well - our rewards would be:

      1- The GAME (Steam)
      2- All future DLCs for FREE
      3- Our names in the credits.

      Listen, i don't care if the early access haven't appeared since today, because it was planned to launch in December 2014 i think... But what you have done (demanding 60k when the what you REALLY need was more than 200k) was a really shitty/sneaky move. I'm (and my friend too) disappointed, not only because the game did not launched since TODAY, but because you LIED to us.

      How can i trust future Kickstarter projects to anyone else, if they can do the same thing as you did?

      Want to make a project? Right. PUT THE RIGHT DAMN PRICE on it!
      What were you thinking?! You thought that money would simply FALL from the sky like RAIN?! Are you a child?!

      After all this mess and broken promises... The only thing i want is to receive the game and forget about all that.
      Which by the way, put us on my MAIN point on making this message.

      WILL I RECEIVE THE GAME IF IT EVER RELEASES, AND THE OTHER 2 REWARDS THAT YOUR KICKSTARTER CAMPAIGN PROMISSED?
      I PAID FOR IT, RIGHT? I DESERVE THE GAME, RIGHT?

      Waiting your answers.
      Best regards - Adriano Chamon.

    4. Missing avatar

      David Joshua Logue on

      I would release a simple demo before people the villagers start getting pitchforks and torches. Keep in mind it takes a lot of hard workers four years to make what was donated to your project in about a month.

    5. John Parry on

      This is by far the most poorly managed project I've seen on Kickstarter.

      Can't help but think that there was never any intention to release this game and that it was just a way to get free money from people.

      Can only hope that the law catches up with them sooner or later.

    6. Arvid Granat on

      Well, this is rather disappointing to read, though not completely unexpected.

      If you guys ever manage to finish the game, even if it means working on it on your spare time for another 5 years, I'll play it. If you don't, I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for something vaguely similar.

    7. William H. on

      I think at this point, it might just be easier for you guys to release Midora as a smaller game. It would certainly be better than postponing the release indefinitely. Maybe scale the game down into 3 dungeons and a final boss or something.

    8. Akule
      Superbacker
      on

      Okay. I can understand some of the irritation, but really, everyone. Spreading bad press and getting furious in these comment threads will only end up demoralizing the staff and will put the final nail in the coffin. If you are looking to create a self-fulfilling prophecy of the game never being made, then by all means, please keep it up.

      If you want the game to actually be created, then perhaps you should let them either continue to work on getting an investor/publisher or work slowly through the development of the game.

      Back when they mentioned that they needed to pause development on Midora so they could make a quick game in order to generate more needed revenue, people exploded, and made them scrap that project. Now they have hit the end of the money and have to work a normal job to pay the bills, you want them to stop doing THAT and focus on Midora.

      Do you actually want the game to be made?

      To Mhyre:
      I know this is a full game with RPG and story elements, so creating and plotting it out would take longer than non-rpg games. If the investor/developer hunt does not pan out, and you revisited the idea of pausing Midora development to work on the secondary project, how long would development for the secondary project need to be?

      The reason why I ask is: Development is basically already delayed. If you were able to (relatively) quickly produce the other project in order to generate revenue to fund this project to the full development, then it sounds like that would be better than developers working on Midora during their free/personal time.

    9. PAC918 on

      Perhaps, we did get our money's worth!? If this game was about backing a project and letting the devs quest along a path full of broken promises, time-line failures and poor budgeting. Every new update is like a new quest for them to complete. Its getting pretty good thus far!

    10. Jeffery Myers on

      You state, "Releasing the source code and our assets would crush the entire project forever. That is never going to happen, period." It sounds to us like the project is already crushed forever. You are stating that you need more money to finish the game. Therefore if you do not get the money you can not finish the game, thus the project is crushed forever and our investment lost. If you are stating that the time frame will change if you do not get the money they we need to know what your time frame expectations are. You have been very poor at meeting previous goals, so you must understand that any talk of a schedule will be met with skepticism. You seem to be focusing on where the money went, and that you need more, not what your current development time line is with and with out money. This feels like you feel guilty about where the money went and are trying to indicate that it was not stolen. If you care more about the game then tell us about the project's current goals and what you are going to do to ensure they are met.
      Your plan needs clear milestones, including a plan for what will happen if the milestones are not met. I feel that if you are unable to meet milestones, then you are in danger of the project never being finished, and your rationale for not releasing what you have to the investors is no longer valid.

      You need to provide us with your plans for both good or bad situations. Just saying you are going to ask for more money is not a plan, it is an insult. Having plans for all cases is what being a producer is, ensuring the project gets made.

    11. Scott Jenkins on

      I'm mostly just confused about how many times it's been said "everything is on track" is you always knew you didn't have enough money.

    12. Missing avatar

      -DarkWing- on

      @Sean

      And yet, he hopes to find a publisher or someone willing to invest. Whats even worse, He wants to do everything under his own terms....

      @Tracey

      This IP with its current state, is not worth what the individual highest backer gave, let alone 73k

    13. Tracey Craig
      Superbacker
      on

      I think it's fair to say that after all the bad press with Kotaku and other gaming news sites, your hopes of ever getting a publisher are over.

      I think you should sell the IP for 73K and return the backers all their money and leave the gaming industry.

    14. Missing avatar

      -DarkWing- on

      You have a lame understanding of what "Exactly" means.
      BTW yea no one will ever give you money again (as i've told you before), if there is a publisher willing to give you something in exchange for your soul, then go for it. If you have a playable build but can not share it with backers, you got the whole KS idea wrong. Man really you should totally skip this non-updates, you've gone from "we are almost there" to "we are going to fall short" then "we are going to do something stupid that works in our dreams" then to "ok we are back on track" "we got de-reailed again", "we are almost able to secure a deal with a publisher", to "everything has gone cold again", do you honestly believe that you will find publishers or investors with an update on kickstarter?
      The guy that compared you with shovel knight is far too kind, you show no commitment to the project, no commitment to the backers, you have nothing to show for, and you just want us to take your word for everything, after all this, you should be aware of the level of credibility you hold. Answer me this, is everyone siting tight on their arses while someone tries to get money? you should kind of forget trying to get money, is not going to happend, get a real job (probably hald time?) to pay some of the bills then continue on every single piece of time you get available to do, you wanna work confy and cozy? then you should have never tried to go indie...

    15. Eric Stockhausen on

      I am really excited for this game, which is why I kickstarted it to begin with. I understand that these things happen. I have even gave money to games that had way more funding then you guys had and they failed.

      However, the game you are making is the game I want to play. I won't get angry and I will be patient. Giving money to people making these kinds of games is well worth the risk.

    16. Uli Troyo
      Superbacker
      on

      I personally don't care. I've backed BOTH Rival Threads: Last Class Heroes campaigns here on Kickstarter, and they still don't have a game. No big deal (unless you're one of the backers who contributed a lot of money). I love the idea of Midora, and I want to see this game made. Fact is, huge professional studios underestimate costs by millions and release dates by years ALL THE TIME. Software is hard. It doesn't surprise me that a tiny indie operation miscalculated costs in the tens of thousands and time in months. If you guys come up with a second Kickstarter, I'll back it. I want this project to survive.

    17. Sean on

      Sorry, I meant "is following". Thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people will see these. Plus the others that will come. Nobody will give you more time or money.

    18. Sean on

      Besides Kotaku, it's on Gamnesia. http://www.gamnesia.com/news/indie-game-midora-has-run-out-of-development-funds-after-raising-73000-on-k The lack of game is going around. Very bad press it following. I doubt if this keeps up that you will find a good publisher.

    19. Mark John Vignone Jr. on

      Disappointed, but the past is the past, and I am incredibly patient. You all control your own destinies now, so hopefully things work out. Things can change pretty quickly after all.

    20. Paul Richard Dinkelmann on

      Insert **Michael Jackson eating popcorn** here.

    21. Tracey Craig
      Superbacker
      on

      Oh you condescending prick! Quang Tran OFFERED YOU FREE HELP.... Are you really that stupid?

      You cannot afford to be fussy. We are the ones calling the shots now not you. I say take him up on his offer. yoh can offer refunds as the new ToS states we can request refunds and you are obligated to refund us if we ask.... I've already asked. So when you are ready i'll have my $40 back as i am done with this pathetic "vaporware"

    22. Epic Minds 2-time creator on

      @ DeafTard: Releasing the source code and our assets would crush the entire project forever. That is never going to happen, period. We can't refund anyone because the game is still being made. We are already working on the game in our free time because, as explained in previous updates, we ran out of money a while ago. This is nothing new. The game will be made no matter what, we are just trying to be transparent about the situation and admitting the mistakes we've made. We don't think a sheet outlining how the money was used will really help because you would still have to trust our word for it, but we might make it anyway. Again: the game will be made. There is no giving up. Please give us time to figure out how best to move forward and hopefully find help. Being angry about not replying to someone's offer yet is quite frankly unbelievable, but we understand where the anger is coming from. Please be patient.

    23. DeafTard on

      Thank you to whomever sent this update to Kotaku because if Epic Minds is not going to do anything with Midora besides giving excuses then maybe the kotaku story will bring out more answers than excuses.

      I wish Epic Minds would offer refunds to the generous backers that poured LOTS of money into this shady project and offer refunds to backers like myself/others. I know this will never happen since who knows what Epic Minds really did with our/backers hard earned money. We all know the money is gone but an outline of where all the money went would be much better for the backers to see/read. Once again the backers were the one to give Epic Minds money and the backers deserve to see a sheet or outline or ANYTHING that shows exactly where all the money went.

      Epic minds, if you really want to redeem yourself then you need to keep working on the game by using your money or just offer refunds before more backers get extremely unhappy. A small side story here that might help you Epic Minds, I remembered backing a small project that didn't go through as planned and the KS creator had no money left. However, he promised to refund all of the backers that request a refund. He went ahead and got a job in the real world. Every paycheck he received, he would take about $50-$100 dollars and started refunding backers every 2 weeks fron the $50-$100 he took fron his paycheck. This took him about 10 months to accomplished and eventually he was able to refund all of the backers that requested a refund. Some backers did not request a refund because he was completely honest about EVERYTHING and he delivered his promise by refunding backers. I, myself did not request a refund since it was only $10 and I respected the fact that he was 100% honest throughout the entire kickstarter project experience.

      There are several KS projects that run out of money but continued to work on the game because they promised to deliver the game. Shovel Knight is a PERFECT example, they ran out of money months before the game was released and guess what? They didn't post updates with excuses to the backers, they instead kept working on the game on their own dime and they actually released the game! Shovel Knight went on to sell over 700,000 copies as of June 2015 and it's still selling! If Shovel Knight can finish a game after running out of money then so can you Epic Minds.

      I hate to say this but I sense a lawsuit being filed by one or two of the backers and if that happens then tons of other backers will join in on the lawsuit. I absolutely hate it when lawsuits gets involved but the backers do have the rights to do that. There has been successful lawsuits against certain KS projects and I would absolutely hate to see Midora become the next lawsuit involved by loyal/top backers that poured a large amount of money into this project.

      Please redeem yourself Epic Minds by finishing the game while providing updates through kickstarter to the backers.

      Also, I seriously cannot believe that you are not taking backer member 'Quang Tang' advice and help which he/she is offering for FREE! The fact that you are not taking his/her free help/advice is absolutely ridiculous and rude because he/she is a backer of Midora after all.

      Also, what Jeffery Myers said below in his comment about releasing the source/game and letting the backers help you finish the game, that seems completely 100% reasonable and fair too! Why is Epic Minds refusing to release the source/game? Perhaps there is more information that Epic Minds is not telling the backers? Please release the source/game to the backers because after all the backers are the ones that provided YOU money in the first place. There is absolutely NO excuse by not releasing the source/game to the backers.

    24. Andrew Ogier on

      Between this, Super Retro Squad, and the Buccaneer 3D printer, I sure do know how to pick 'em :(

    25. Lena Spike on

      You guys are not transparent at all. I lost hope with your company and this game months ago. I hope it bites you all in the ass for wasting our money.

    26. Epic Minds 2-time creator on

      @ Michael Lipinski: We understand your anger, but I will ask that you calm down. We did not refuse Quang's offer, we just did not discuss it yet. The offer was made a couple of hours after the update was posted and we have a million other things to worry about. I don't believe it is insane to give us a bit of time to even consider talking about the situation with a single other dev. Also, it's an offer for free help... which we can refuse anyway if we feel it is not appropriate. At first I thought he was joking simply because what he was saying was a bit ridiculous... if the people he was working with were working fulltime. But that is not the case, and that was a simple misunderstanding.

      About the GDD being completed "TWO YEARS AFTER YOU FINISHED KICKSTARTING FOR THE PROJECT". No, not really. The kickstarter was last year, in 2014. The GDD had bits and pieces floating around, it was just never put together before. Was it a mistake? Probably, but it did not stop us from working and making progress on the game. You dont need to know every single detail of the full game to work on a simple task such as making a dungeon wall or coding an inventory.

      "Just admit you fucked up and either move on or figure out a way to fix it.". What do you think this whole update is about? I did admit mistakes were made. I was even completely transparent by finally giving numbers on what we had to work with. The update was posted in hope of finding a solution, figuring out a way to fix it, but apparently you thought otherwise. Going back to work and finishing the game is all we want. Many others in my place would have either remained silent or simply announced that they quit. I am the most stubborn guy you'll ever meet when it comes to making something happen. Please don't be so quick on the anger trigger next time.

    27. Michael Lipinski
      Superbacker
      on

      Epic Minds: "We learned a lot so far by going through all of this, all that we need at the moment is for someone to give us a chance and trust that we can deliver. "

      We did give you a chance. We gave you $73,470 worth of a chance. The fact that you wasted it on your high ideals and now want a second chance is not our problem.

      Epic Minds: "@Quang Tran: So 8 people working on your project, assuming you don't pay yourself, 25k in two years? I hope you understand paying someone $148 a month sounds a bit ridiculous. You can't even come close to paying bills with that kind of money."

      You pretentious, condescending jerk. Someone is offering you help, FREE HELP! He's GIVING YOU A CHANCE after he probably already invested money in you and this is how you act?!? What the fuck is wrong with you???

      I'm really starting to question your age or your mental state at this point. In one of your previous updates you whined about how hard it was to write a 31 page document. You sound like a high school student who wrote his last term paper. Not to mention you completed it TWO YEARS AFTER YOU FINISHED KICKSTARTING FOR THE PROJECT. The document should have been done way before you asked to take our money.

      Your responses and actions are extremely juvenile and unprofessional then you wonder why no one wants to work with you. Grow! Up! You don't deserve the right to make this video game, you need to earn it. You can't expect it to be delivered to you on a silver platter and whine and bitch when it doesn't go your way. You have to make sacrifices, be hungry for it, and persevere.

      This entire project reeks of hubris and you need to get over yourselves.

      I fully believe that some publishers did offer you something but they weren't bending over backwards to fulfill your every wish and you turned them down.

      "while they were all truly interested, their own schedule and projects was often the number one reason a partnership/agreement could not be made."

      Yep! They were like "Get it done in 6 months" and you were like "We need another year to research and find our hearts about what this game truly is about...........BUT IT'S DONE ON PAPER!" What does "done on paper" actually mean?!? Nothing, it means nothing.

      I have a lot of projects that are "done in my head." Would you give me money for them? I doubt you will.

      I gave you $25 and honestly I can stand to lose it. I'm not that concerned about the money. This hasn't soured me on crowdfunding. I knew at the time I was taking a risk with an untrusted, new developer. Honestly, I'm more pissed about the money I invested in Mighty Number 9 than I am this thing and that's supposedly coming out soon.

      But what I can't stand is your constant whining, excuses, and inability to take ownership of your own mistakes. Then when people offer to help you, you're a jerk about it.

      Just admit you fucked up and either move on or figure out a way to fix it.

    28. Michael on

      Honestly, at this point I feel like you should try and sell the game, and just repay as much of the backers' funds as possible.

    29. Eric on

      Thanks for the update. Best of luck completing the game.

    30. Wang Yudong on

      For Kickstarter backers who don't regularly check Midora's facebook page, they announced several hours ago that the latest build of the game will be available for download in the next Kickstarter update. Wait, when is the next update?

    31. Missing avatar

      Jeremy Wall on

      I'm going to be honest and say that I think you should quickly release a backer-only build then halt development of the game. After that get an industry job and maybe make the game in your free time. The last thing you'd want to be in is debt.

    32. Missing avatar

      Glenn McMath on

      I'm not going to re-hash a lot of the negative things that've already been said, but suffice to say, I agree with a lot of them.

      My biggest problem with the developers of this project, and it's something I've noticed for a few updates now, is their complete ignorance about the realities of developing games as an indie studio. The statement "Nobody works for free" is bullshit. The vast majority of independent developers (especially those without industry experience) create games in their spare time while doing other things to pay the bills. The compensation for their time and effort comes when the game is finished and starts selling copies. An incredibly small number of indies are actually able to draw what even comes close to resembling a normal salary. Seriously... look at the story behind most successful indie games. Take a good look at what the developers were willing to sacrifice and how they lived to see their game finished. You guys really need to take off your rose-tinted glasses, because it sounds like you're looking at game development with the romanticism of uninformed enthusiasts. Indie game development is compromise, indie game development is sacrifice. It isn't burning through other people's money because you insist on everyone getting paid a full salary, then sitting on your ass waiting for a publisher to give you more.

      Despite my harsh words, I honestly do hope that you are able to complete the game and find success. Not for the sake of me having a game (honestly I don't give a shit about it anymore), but for the sake of you reaching your dream. But let this be a reality check to you. You're going to have to do it on your own. Any publisher you approach is going to check your Kickstarter. They're going to see all the broken promises and missed deadlines, and they're NOT going to give you any money.

      The only way this game is going to be finished is if you do it yourself, with your own effort, your own time, and your own money. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

    33. Felipe Lins on

      BTW, I'm ok with reasons, motives and these stuff to explain what's going on, and I'm glad you came clean about the situation, but, come on, we need to be practical and think of something to make it work, not just complain about the situation and wait for a miracle to happen.

    34. Felipe Lins on

      I have some tidbits of advice based on the facts you presented us.

      You got a messed up budget planning. You didn't take into account critical things such as taxes and other things that lowered OUR money. So you ended up with 3/4 of the planned budget.

      Why didn't you took a 1/4 shot into YOUR own salary and started working part-time instead of full-time, being able to get money for your personal lives and optimizing the project money? It seems to me that you are all playing safe, and not willing to sacrifice part of your own incomes in order to come up with the game as you convinced us to fund you.

      I'm a VERY patient guy and can wait some time while you try to get help from other investors/publishers, remembering, before anything that WE are also your investors, and we deserve your dedication to the project you sold us. So, with that in mind, what are you planning to do in case you don't get a publisher/investor to finish the job?

      This plan B is something I would like to hear to feel peaceful with this project. Also, you should present us the state of developing, in terms of what has been done and what's still left to do.

      There are other guys among the kickstarters that also run indie game development and can offer help to come up with a backup plan, and how to optimize your work in order to make it possible,

      I don't see how can we get a glimpse of hope in the project if you guys are not willing to make some sacrifice in order to make it work.

      I get that you are under a tremendous amount of pressure, and I'm rooting for a investor/publisher to show up and make it happen. But I would love to have an idea, as I already said, of a backup plan.

      Can you present us something in that way?

    35. Tom Harrison on

      Having said that I would take him up on the offer, but you may have done that already, there's no way for any of us to know since he requested a more private place to talk.

    36. Tom Harrison on

      People sure are overreacting to your responses to Quang Tran...
      I certainly saw nothing wrong with it.
      And honestly that $25,000 over 2 years claim was a bit hard to believe.
      For a team of 8 people that doesn't sound right at all.
      Sorry, I just don't believe it.
      And some people are just being straight up mean about it.

      And hey cool I look forward to playing the game in its current build.

    37. vlahka on

      Most of my thoughts were already echoed by Cory Mosena and Blyrmasia. Especially the bits about trimming the game to release something that will work. I mean I was only expecting a simple platformer/adventure game, and I'll be just fine if I get something like that, a throwback to the old 90s games. I'm pretty sure 99% of us would be more than happy with that. I've backed other kickstarters that only made 25k and released some amazing stuff. You're trying way too hard to pay everyone full time wage. You should all be getting part time/commission payments. I'm guessing since the money ran out ages ago you're all mostly working at the moment or you'd be dead or living on the streets. It's more than fair and expected to put in some hours of free time during weekends. I've known some friends to put out games with zero funding.

      One thing not suggested is if you really dont want to release a playable demo for whatever reason, the next best EASIEST option is to release some youtube videos of you at the game. Moving the character around, showing some small parts of the game, commenting on what you're hoping to do with this or that area. Basically a development diary. This way you can keep all the game story secrets hidden for fear of spoiling and not worry about it exploding for someone else. This way you can edit your clips to show it off in a way you're happy to do. Now if you're not wanting to do this for fear of someone stealing ideas then I guess you wont be moving much further than the spot you're at. I do agree with taking up Quang offer too like mentioned before. You're an indie studio making your first game. He's been there before and will definitely have more experience and some knowledge you can walk away with. Or even some links with other programmers/artists who may be willing to help you with the completion of the game. Networking is one of the first things you should be doing if you want to finish this game. Do not pass up on the offer.

    38. Epic Minds 2-time creator on

      We have read all of your comments and did our best to come up with reasonable actions to take over the coming few days. In the ongoing effort of transparency, our most recent build of the game will be available for all to download in the next update.

    39. Philhouse
      Superbacker
      on

      I'm a patient dude. I'm gonna watch and wait and hope things come together for you so you can make and release the game you want to show to the world.

    40. Missing avatar

      Yan Zhao on

      Just a couple of months ago you guys were ready to give us a "demo" on Steam, meaning there should at least be a half-playable build sitting around, assuming this was true. And now you claim you have nothing worth showing to us yet have something for your investors.

      You must really think we're all idiots or something. It's not to put 2 and 2 together. You guys are lying. Any sensible project managers would at least show us work in progress for damage control at this point. The fact that you can't even do that, using lame excuses, just goes to show that you dont actually have anything to show.

      How long are you guys planning to keep the charade up? Just come clean already and say you fucked up and that you have nothing to show because no work was done.

    41. Crow on

      I was going to comment saying that it was my first kickstarter and I had hoped it worked out because it seemed promising and the game/idea seemed awesome but after back tracking through the project and comments/replies I honestly couldn't give a crap about this and hope it dies.

      I actually can't believe the reply you gave Quang Tran - that's disgraceful. When someone offers you help, for free, even if it does not end up doing you any good, at least have the decency to hear them out.

      With some of the childish replies, I have to wonder what your age is.

      Your attitude and with all this being so easy to read online + spending $73K so quickly and having nothing to show for it (even a demo or something worthwhile to your backers) it is no wonder publishers and investors are staying away.

      First thing you would do is have someone check the kickstarter project, within 5 minutes they would decide they did not want anything to do with you or the project.

    42. Missing avatar

      Edward Prescott on

      Thank you for all your hard work so far. I wish you all the best of luck.
      @Blyrmasia It took less then 30 seconds for me to find out how to disable updates. Just go to the top right where it says "me" click and there are setting for notifications. Click on "manage X project notifications". And then uncheck the projects you no longer wish to receive updates for.

    43. Missing avatar

      Blyrmasia on

      I finally found it. Updates off. Thank goodness.

    44. Missing avatar

      Blyrmasia on

      So, for starters, can somebody tell me how to get off of these "updates" because I am tired of getting the emails. Something other than marking Kickstarter as 'spam' in my email - anyone know how?

      As for where we are today in this Kickstarter, I'm not upset about the money I put forward. It was a gamble as all Kickstarters are. That said, however, there are some serious flaws and recurring themes that can be seen in the updates to date.

      Primarily, I have never in my life seen so many excuses and poor management. I manage IT projects. and truly that is what the current state of this Kickstarter boils down to - poor project management. When you set out to do a project, you should define the parameters and the cost in realistic terms long before you ask for money - the key here is realistic terms. If you don't think you can get the amount you're asking for, then you refine your plan: start letting go of the fluffy bits, the nice to have bits, and you get down to the core product that you know you can deliver and get out there. If you're successful, you can dust off those notes on the 'nice to have' items and grow the game later (sequels, patches, etc.).

      Clearly from the updates to date we have seen, the team behind this Kickstarter was not honest or prepared with their initial request for funds. This might be completely acceptable for first timers, except for the simple fact they knew they would not be able to deliver a working game with the amount requested. That is where the honesty bit comes in - you promised the moon knowing you couldn't deliver any fraction of it. This is a really bad way to start a relationship with any business, backer or customer.

      I agree with what some other people have said - the team behind this project is unwilling to make hard decisions and let anything go. That is the core job of a decent project manager: cutting back the fat to keep your project lean, true to scope, and successful. It's been stated in prior updates that there is "just so much to do and we just keep finding things to make the game better and better." This is the number 1 sinkhole for projects. In an IT world, you need to accept nothing is ever perfect. Nothing. Ever. At some point you have to cut off the creativity and stick to the plan, otherwise you're just building your expenses, spinning your wheels, and not getting anything accomplished. Your customers don't care that you have this awesome idea to make "x" part of the game better. If it's going to cost $5,000 that you didn't plan for, then you need to put it aside or find something else to take out to put it in - you can't have it all. If something can't make it in, just make note of it and make use of it some other time - another game, and update, etc. I think you get the point.

      But where I really draw the line is that I am beyond disappointed that the team is not willing to take assistance where it is being offered (@Quang Tran). Seeing this Kickstarter team get offended (not just in this post but in others as well) and scoffing at people offering to help is completely unacceptable. If the game meant so much to you, you'd swallow your dang pride and not only look for help but at least be willing to admit that you could have done it better. Anything and everything can be done better - if you can't stomach the criticism, take it as a way to grow and learn, and reach out for help, you are not going to get anywhere (which is exactly what we're seeing). Sitting on your high horse and rejecting offers for mentoring in something you clearly have no experience in (project cost management) is where I draw the line.

      So, I think I've made myself pretty clear, I'm done. I don't care if the game makes it or not. Just get me off these updates - it's pretty awful when your backers/customers just think "what now?" when they see emails from you, because they know it's just going to be a fluff piece with no substance and no plan. The game looked cool - but oh well.

    45. Tom Harrison on

      People never seem to understand that when you back a project there's no certainty that you'll actually get what you paid for. Kickstarter's a gamble, I don't see any real reason to complain when it goes wrong 'cause it's kinda your decision to risk it in the first place.
      Anyway I really hope things get better for you guys soon, it always has looked like it'll be a fantastic game, it'd be a real shame not to get to play it.
      Good luck, don't let the complaints get you down, it just means they care about the game.

    46. Kai Drawwater on

      @Cory Mosena That FTC thing seems quite interesting. Hmm.

    47. Matt Young on

      I understand that you've run into some setbacks, but from the sound of this email, you knew you were asking for too little money from the get-go. You promised something you couldn't deliver, and took my money anyway.

      This game looked amazing, but obviously the business minds behind it were not. You are a theif, anyway you look at it, if you don't pull this up. But good luck on my game. I say "my game," because I paid for it, not you.